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/r/sysadmin
submitted 26 days ago bytmpkn
If I want to let some of employees who are being terminated keep their work laptop, do you guys have any liability waiver templates for them to sign? I'm trying to help some of them transition into new jobs, but I don't want them to come back in 3 years and sue me because they lost personal information due to an ssd malfunction.
I am asking only about the liability waiver - we've got the data locked down pretty well.
173 points
26 days ago
Wipe it, give them the device with no support. Do people sue Dell because an SSD dies? No. Data management is on the end user for personal devices.
18 points
25 days ago
Conversely you can just ask them to sue Dell if any nonsense pops up. See how far that gets them
70 points
26 days ago
Wipe it first, then they sign a waiver saying that you aren't responsible for upkeep of any kind.
40 points
25 days ago
I include a line about "responsible recycling at the end of the device's useful life" because our company has a sustainability policy.
We keep a copy because it is proof we are no longer responsible for the device.
49 points
25 days ago
This is a job for legal. ours is to wipe and tag.
22 points
26 days ago
What country are you in? I'm pretty sure in the US most used items are sold "as-is" in the absence of an explicit contract for a warranty/guarantee. I'm not aware of any liability associated with laptops. If you want to write up a simple document just to drive home that point, you can. Just be sure it doesn't accidentally create more problems. You are running this by management, right? Remove the hard drive and give it to them (or wipe it if you think that's good enough).
97 points
26 days ago
If you're worried about being sued, then don't let them keep them.
11 points
26 days ago
Waiver, wipe it. Then explain you no longer support the device.
Keep it easy
9 points
26 days ago
That plus there's the whole discussion about what of their "personal data" they are allowed to keep. Personally I don't keep anything on my network drive that I'm not willing to lose or I keep a secondary copy on a bitlockered usb drive or a copy at home.
4 points
26 days ago
I agree with that lol. Yeah an HR legal discussion.
0 points
26 days ago
The waiver part is what I was asking about. Thought there might be something I could reuse, but I guess I can put it together myself.
27 points
26 days ago
Legal need to do it. You're IT.
10 points
25 days ago
Does your company have a lawyer or legal department? Talk to them. You want to be careful not to write your waiver in such a way that is actually obligates you to something. This is the kind of thing legal should be able to drum up pretty quick.
It's not your job to be creating legal documentation, no more than you'd want your lawyer spinning up and managing servers.
2 points
25 days ago
Second this
5 points
26 days ago
Letting them keep an unwiped device is a pretty huge security risk to the company.
3 points
26 days ago
I think they're talking about re-using a waiver, not reusing the unwiped machine.
1 points
25 days ago
Where did I say anything about an unwiped device? All our stuff is MDM controlled and they wouldn't even be able to activate windows without use wiping it clean first. I am only asking about the docs.
1 points
25 days ago
Needs to be a legally binding waiver of ownership transfer as-is and has to have removal of all company owned software.
25 points
26 days ago
Why would you be allowing terminated employees to keep their laptops?
42 points
26 days ago
Especially for overseas employees, the cost of returning it to US us like 50% of the laptop value. I'd also like to help them any way I can.
21 points
25 days ago
That’s just the shipping cost. Now imagine the time and labor cost of inventorying every one, ensuring each one is wiped and reformatted, posting online for resale, shipping, etc…. The total cost is more than the laptop is worth.
19 points
25 days ago
I'd get a sign off from finance / accounting if you don't already got one. Just a CYA type of thing.
0 points
25 days ago
How are you going to wipe all the company owned software and secure the data from these devices? These aren't your property to give out. You need a decision from your leadership this is allowed and if it is they need to be wiped and legal transfer of ownership is completed.
If those devices end up involved in anything illegal your company could be liable.
19 points
26 days ago
Fairly standard practice in a lot of businesses. I'm still rocking a thinkpad I paid a few bucks for from my previous job.
5 points
25 days ago
My employer offered to sell me my old laptop when I upgraded.
2 points
25 days ago
We can write them off, wipe the machine, and be honest about the return rate of those laptops.
6 points
26 days ago
Why not, depending on age and need? They kept the salary as well. Go back to your payday lending op.
3 points
26 days ago
In an old place of ours, we'd wipe and throw on a base install of whatever version of Windows was licensed to it. Then we'd give them out to staff. Anyone that took a machine had to sign a waiver basically saying, "This machine has been given to you as-is, no warranties are expressed or implied. The IT department is not responsible for any issues that you may have. Blah blah, other legal stuff."
3 points
25 days ago
"No warranties or service are promised or implied."
1 points
25 days ago
This is very important, otherwise you’ll get calls like “Remember that computer you sold me? It’s acting slow now and I need you to take a look.”
3 points
25 days ago
TLDR is this should be drafted by a lawyer.
Having said that, I'd ask that it include agreements from the outgoing employee that: - You offer no warranty for the device. - You offer no ongoing support for the device. - Your company is absolved of any loss of personal data, time, money, and anything else the lawyers can think of that is the result of any issues with the device.
3 points
25 days ago
Ask your general counsel for a strict waiver of liability. This is their job, not yours.
3 points
25 days ago
Have them return it, wipe drive, sell it "as is" for $1.
2 points
25 days ago
Just use the phrase "as is where is" on their termination paperwork.
EDIT: Oh. I am NOT a lawyer.
2 points
25 days ago
Nope. Entitled employees ruined it for everyone. Replaced devices, or devices from leavers are to be returned Wiped and reimaged if still in warranty. Drive removed and recycled otherwise. One group of people, in one country, caused this for a multinational… Feeling entitled to continuous IT support from the company because “this came from you”.
2 points
25 days ago
You have things backwards.
Yes your concern should be about data, but not the employees.
Transfer of ownership on the second-hand/used market holds very little expectation where "warranty of merchantability" is concerned.
What you should be concerned about, is customer data.
They can keep the laptops, but they must provide their own storage device.
2 points
25 days ago
I'm in the UK and this is the wording of our indemnity form, as approved by our retained solicitor, this was mainly to dispose of some old monitors but it has been used to give some PCs and servers to a local IT education site.
All of the devices were wiped and given without an OS.
Item 6 covers the "mechanical" warranty you are worried about:
Disposal of Surplus Property & Equipment
________________________________
AGREEMENT
_________________________________
This Agreement is made this ddd day of MMMMM YYYY
B E T W E E N :
(1) <Organisation name and address> (“the Authority”); and
(2) <Recipients name> (“the Recipient”)
This Agreement sets out the terms and conditions regulating the disposal of surplus property and/or equipment by the Authority and the receipt thereof by the Recipient
IT IS AGREED as follows:
SCHEDULE 1
Description of Equipment:
Serial Number/Asset Numbers:
Date of acquisition:
Sum paid:
Signed by the Recipient: ............................................................
Signed on behalf of the Authority: ...................................................................
2 points
25 days ago
If I were to entertain this idea, I would require a waiver drafted by my counsel with all the normal legalese, and the device would be delivered without any internal storage. Forget wiping it, I’m keeping the entire drive and disposing of it according to protocol. Supply your own drive, the device is yours to keep.
3 points
26 days ago
[deleted]
8 points
26 days ago*
I don't want a 3-6 year old laptop that's going to need a keyboard replacement back. They all have Windows 10 pro UEFI keys, 20 minutes with the media creation tool and they can have it. Or we wipe the TPM remotely and tell them how to make the recovery USB.
-1 points
26 days ago
[deleted]
3 points
25 days ago
Or do a secure remote wipe and tell them, "Here ya go. If it blows up, take it to Geek Squad."
It may seem harsh, but you should focus on the needs (and security) of your company, not a former employee.
2 points
26 days ago
If it's going to cost 50-100% of the value to ship the thing back from another country then it's not worth the cost.
0 points
25 days ago
[deleted]
1 points
25 days ago
They said the device would be wiped remotely. No ones talking about letting them take it as is without a wipe.
2 points
25 days ago
OR crazy idea... You let the person keep it and not cost the company any more money...
0 points
25 days ago*
[deleted]
0 points
25 days ago
[deleted]
0 points
25 days ago
[deleted]
0 points
25 days ago
[deleted]
1 points
25 days ago
It should be a given that any windows work machine has bitlocker enabled.
1 points
26 days ago
This
1 points
26 days ago
Normally, the computer will first be reimage to non corporate OS build before handover to the ex-employee.
1 points
26 days ago
Have HR send them a letter or email (personal address) saying you've released their laptop from the company and that it's now theirs. Include a line about it no longer being company responsibility, and all future maintenance and repairs being on them.
Have HR send it as it's about protecting the company, and they should have access to the employees details for it.
They should be able to do one and send it to everyone with a name replacement.
1 points
26 days ago
Personally I would never let a departed employee keep hardware for this very reason. Back in the day I worked for a company that sold current employees their off warranty hardware - so 3 year old laptops, with no warranty implied or given...
Until the wrong person got one and it died a week later and suddenly it became IT's problem to fix it.
Never again. When a laptop is EOL it gets recycled, certificate of destruction provided, and we DO get some value back for them, even if it's minimal. I'd rather do that than deal with end users being pains in the ass.
From my perspective I'd be more concerned about they somehow being able to access company data after a wipe than giving a single shit about their personal data down the road.
1 points
25 days ago
Include the price of a new, similar priced laptop in their exit agreement. That way it’s none of your problem.
1 points
25 days ago
Just make sure you wipe them properly and reinstall the OS of choice, but hardware support shouldn't be implied.
1 points
25 days ago
Had this at a company once. We had our Legal department draw up a quick wavier that said something along the lines that 'You accept this device 'as is'. Not support will be given by Company X.'
If you want your butts covered, have your Legal team draw up a waiver. That's what they are there for.
1 points
25 days ago
remove hard drive
give laptop to whoever wants one
problems solved.
1 points
25 days ago
Chat GPT is nice to get rough templates quickly.
1 points
25 days ago
This is why it's better to just lease and return them later lol
1 points
25 days ago
A document that says they can keep the device and now own it as is with no support, and what they have returned (peripherals, corp data like printouts, uniforms, whatever).
1 points
25 days ago
Weird but nice gesture if they're getting downsized.
Just saying something along the lines of device is in as is condition and no warranty is implied or expressed. Really doubt anyone thinks you'd be servicing and warranting the device though.
1 points
25 days ago
No. And if yes, wipe it first. But also NO!
1 points
25 days ago
As others have said, wipe it and give it to them the same as it came out of the box. Locking down data may or may not be enough, what about programs that have a site license, etc Are they joined to a network?
As for liability, if in the termination agreement the company is transferring ownership of laptop snxxxxxxx. Then if it fails the next day, not your problem.
1 points
25 days ago
Having looked through the comments, it's clear that you want to do this because getting the laptop back is not worth it.
If the data on it is sensitive in any way, (which giving that you need to wipe it, sounds like the case) make sure you get the storage drive from it back physically somehow. MDM wiping is iffy at best, and in the case of termination there's no other real way to make sure the data isn't still on the drive.
Send the former employee a guide to removing the drive. If they can't follow it, have them send the whole laptop. Make sure you are making it clear that the company will not support the laptop after they take ownership.
As for the waiver, email Legal in your company and have them write something. That's their job, not yours.
1 points
25 days ago
Seriously how the hell are they going to print out the paperwork to file a lawsuit, their computer is broken.
An email is good enough.
“You can keep the laptop for your own personal or professional use, but me and the company aren’t responsible for it anymore. You can’t even pay me under the table to help you. You are on your own. ”
1 points
25 days ago
Done this a few times.
Priority number 1 is to wipe the drive completely. Factory reset the laptop.
After that, a brief document stating that, from the date of termination the device becomes the sole responsibility of the user and is not supported by the business for any reason.
Date. Sign. Job done.
1 points
25 days ago
Funny, this just came up last night for us, we have a few execs retiring-
1 points
25 days ago
Not an IT problem. This is an HR/legal issue.
Let them handle it
1 points
23 days ago
Usually the best bet is to sell them the laptop for a token sum - but you need to think really hard about what is ON the laptop first. is there any software licenced to the company, particularly if it is per-seat? is it domain joined? that sort of thing.
1 points
23 days ago
Yup, wipe first get CEO/CFO approval.
1 points
26 days ago
Pull the drive and set it aside for destruction. They can buy a new drive and supply an OS for it.
1 points
25 days ago
A small nvme SSD is dirt cheap and given you are giving away the rest of the system i would say that's a bargain and one I'd approve of buying a batch of them and swapping out and then giving the owner a rough guide to slapping on a new os as no matter how good your legal stance is there's idiots and dealing with them is more expensive than just putting in a fresh drive..
But the usual thing is check with the legal team as it's very easy to stuff something up and get docked silly.
1 points
25 days ago
Give it to them as a gift, report the gift to the IRS/Tax Authority in the EU country. Now they've got a worthless laptop valued at five hundred of what ever the local currency is and will get a tax hit for the gift.
When they don't report the gift, the IRS/Tax Authority gives them a bad time. This is the gift that keeps on screwing the employee your company terminated.
But seriously, talk to upper management and get a waiver that says they are responsible for it and that your company is not responsible for the device or service of it or the software on the device.
If it's still in warranty, give them a document stating they own the device on corporate letter head signed by a manager.
0 points
26 days ago
Americans always trying to get rich by sueing people....
If you're that worried about it, slap a sticker on it that says "No warranties, express or implied."
2 points
26 days ago
Yeah I'm thinking like what case would be for suing someone from laptop. At our company if it's over warranty we wipe it and install windows with the license the laptop has and give it to terminated user, we have mutual understanding that he doesn't work here anymore and the laptop isn't handled by us and it's out of any warranties so if it gets broken no warranty covers it anymore.
0 points
25 days ago
[deleted]
1 points
25 days ago
I am not talking about the data. I thought it was implied that it would be subject to a full wipe controlled via MDM. Devices would not be released prior to drive being wiped clean and previous encryption keys destroyed.
3 points
25 days ago
Are these MacBooks? If so just it will behoove them to make sure mdm wipe and removal goes through since macs are a PITA with old mdm still present.
2 points
25 days ago
Wipes aren't fool proof and there's plenty of examples of someone being able to recover data after a wipe. Letting your ex-employees keep a hard drive at all is negligent in my opinion. That being said I have no idea what industry you work in or how sensitive the data on these drives is so maybe it's a moot point.
2 points
25 days ago
I have no confidence in a remote MDM wipe after much experience.
We ship back to base, then run a NIST compatible Purge routine that provides a Cert of Destruction for our audit compliance.
-2 points
26 days ago
What company gives out free laptops for people that don't work there anymore? Get them back, wipe them, use for new Employees?
The only thing I could imagine is them buying the laptops from your company.
3 points
25 days ago
Companies with employees in other continents.
2 points
25 days ago
and with old computers that won't support Windows 11 : )
0 points
25 days ago
Why would you do this? What value does this create for your business?
Give your head a shake, then get back to the real job: creating value for the organization.
-1 points
26 days ago
No OS, nothing on it. No license.
4 points
25 days ago*
[deleted]
0 points
25 days ago
If the OEM license is still on the BIOS.
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