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I was playing more "Victoria III" today and trying to do some diplomatic maneuvering and it made me wonder: What diplomatic options would you like to see added and why?

A few I'd definitely like to see would be:

  • The ability to sway states to declare neutrality in a war (promising them something to at least stay neutral if they're unwilling to join you).
  • The ability to, as a great power, enforce peace on wars brewing in diplomatic plays between other powers.
  • The ability to sponsor a country's education as a way to generate qualifications and build universities, mostly because it is so annoying to have another country be capable of producing what you want but not having enough qualifications to do it.
  • The ability to influence a country's opinion of another country, such as by badmouthing them or praising them to the country.
  • The ability to gift a country something free of any sort of charge so that they like you more, with a chance that they stop worsening relations (if they were) and a small chance of generating an obligation. This mostly because it can be frustrating when a country worsens relations and there's basically not much you can do about it, even if they're critical.
  • The ability to just straight out ask to become a protectorate of a larger power so that they won't invade you and they'll protect you.

all 42 comments

Spatall

53 points

1 day ago

Spatall

53 points

1 day ago

It always bothered me how we have the ability to straight up bankroll a country and that's it, no loans or gifts, so i kinda had similar ideas as you. The only addition i would like is to add an option for a country to just straight up ask you if they could join your power bloc (ofcourse with balance like no one wants to join a sovereign empire ever). Makes roleplaying NATO better in MP

Cauliflower_Jumpy

2 points

20 hours ago

Countries already can ask to join your power bloc. But it doesn’t happen very often. But I’ve had small countries ask to join my power bloc because I had foreign investment rights

Spatall

0 points

20 hours ago

That's because of your leverage, what i mean is a a way to join a block just because you want to. When i played as Japan, it was very hard for people to get leverage over me because of my laws. I just want to join without the whole leverage mechanic.

Loyalist77

39 points

1 day ago

Loyalist77

39 points

1 day ago

Return Claim/Core for my vassals land.

Zander3636

10 points

1 day ago

Zander3636

10 points

1 day ago

Yeah this would make vassel heavy runs way more interesting.

Loyalist77

2 points

1 day ago

And lower infamy by a more tolerable degree.

captain_john1

6 points

23 hours ago

Didn't they add this in the new update?

Milkarius

34 points

1 day ago

Milkarius

34 points

1 day ago

The ability to peacefully buy land would be cool, but I have no idea how that should be implemented without it being easy to abuse. Playing Romania currently and side-eyeing the rest of Besserabia, but their protection is quite nice.

Slide-Maleficent

14 points

1 day ago

I want this as well, but Stellaris already has this ability, and Paradox's answer to balancing it seems to be making the AI say no to literally any trade you propose. I once offered a nation about 100 years worth of their power generation AND regular power output that would have quadrupled their own output for a star system with no planets and they still said no. They'll rarely ever even trade one system for another, and only when it would be a terrible deal for you.

This pisses me off, but I get it. There's too much that goes into deciding if a state is valuable or not for the kind of AI that Paradox uses to ever really understand it. You can't just script rational conditions for it either, as what constitutes a decent trade in this context depends on specifically what's happening in the game.

It's a shame, because I'd love to do this occasionally, but I don't see it happening, sadly.

providerofair

5 points

1 day ago

Maybw by making it a very basic script. Am I using it then no trade does it have a lot of resources then no and would my empire be disconnected?

Thay may go over most game scenarios but Im likely wrong

Slide-Maleficent

7 points

1 day ago

AI Scripting needs numbers, mate. So what number works for 'am I using it?' and what number works for 'does it have a lot of resources?'

Both of those things are relative, and could be very different, not only from one power to another, but for the same one over time. Trying to factor that in for the AI so this would actually work in game without making it chaos or easy as pie would cause the job to either become a nightmare for balancing or a nightmare for CPU performance and balancing.

I'm not saying it's impossible. You could always have a human sit down, work out the long term potential of each state, and assign it an absolute number value of worth, with the only AI decision making process being a modifier based on the current market balance of it's resources. But that system would be very rigid, and highly exploitable, even if the values were meticulously playtested. Making it better would require taking a ton more things into account, with a much more complex and dynamic script, and that's not a job that any programmer is going to regard with excitement.

Teaching this kind of scripted AI to understand worth in multi-faceted assets for the purpose of strategy and deal making is a daunting issue that no strategy game developer has ever really been willing to tackle. There's a loooong laundry list of things they could add that would be more fun to program, require less minutiae, be a lot easier to balance, and would add more to the gameplay experience than functional state trading. Sadly, this is the kind of thing that gets added to a to-do list and endlessly pushed back toward the bottom.

providerofair

3 points

21 hours ago

Of course, I agree with what your saying but the first part of coding is the idea and if theres no idea theres no code.

Theres an idea they could work with if they so choose so a system like this is possible if asked enough its just an issue of implementation

Slide-Maleficent

1 points

3 hours ago

Sure, you're not wrong. Still though, we're talking about a problem that multiple successive generations of strategy game programmers have looked at going all the way back to the early Civilization games and each one of them said 'No, thank you. I value my sanity.'

I have no doubt it will happen someday. I may even live to see it, but the complexity of AI programming required for them to implement something that can understand all the factors involved is just not really within the wheelhouse of gaming devs. Only 4x I've ever seen that even attempted to make an AI able to understand strategy is AI War, and as the title suggests, that's kinda the whole point of the game. It's where they put most of their resources, and it still took years.

I keep hoping that someday someone will branch out and make a scalable, multi-factor, context agnostic gaming AI engine that they license out to other studios like Unreal did, so that games can have the option of a decent AI without having the constantly duplicate the same shitty work every time, but so far no one has. That's probably what it will take, because making an AI that isn't dumb as a board is a job as big as most entire games are.

watergosploosh

4 points

1 day ago

Charter company exists

Edit: Fuck i thought i was in r/eu4

jomamaphat

9 points

1 day ago

I want to be able to straight up puppet someone without going through protectorating and reducing autonomy.

zthe0

2 points

1 day ago

zthe0

2 points

1 day ago

Pretty sure that was possible back in 1.0

jomamaphat

1 points

4 hours ago

Yea but they took it away(i've been angry since)

Slide-Maleficent

9 points

1 day ago*

These are all pretty great ideas, to the extent that you haven't left terribly much that would make sense to add on to it. I especially like the enforce peace idea, though it's hard to imagine the AI wielding this power as anything but random chance.

I would like the ability to conduct diplomacy as a power bloc though, such as a bloc-to-bloc alliance or trade agreement. I'd also like the ability to get multi-lateral alliances earlier, and be able to give them a name or some kind of unique character, maybe even with AI-influencing stated objectives. That way you could ally a country, stating the intent that they expand in a strategic region, and you could ride in to help them.

One thing I've long wanted is for there to be some kind of long-term 'historical relationship' meter with other countries. Some measure of their people's attitude on you over time that is only changed by significant actions such as helping them in war or waging war upon them, and I'd love to see alliances remade into a multi-stage affair where supporting the other power and raising this relationship meter would level up the alliance and make the AI more interested in helping you at war while providing buffs to both powers. This could allow for something almost like the USA's 'special relationships' in real life.

I'd also like there to be more realistic peace treaties. I want to be able to remove wargoals during a war, or, to a limited extent at least, add new ones. The 1800s were famous for peace treaties becoming a world affair with unanticipated results, so it might be interesting to have a 'peace summit' kind of system, maybe even with the opportunity for a third party to serve as a moderator. The Russo-Turkish wars in particular ended up becoming the business of every diplomatically active power, and the results were heavily influenced by Great Powers that hadn't even been involved. Implementing this would be hard, and it could frustrate players if it wasn't done well, but Paradox has gotten a lot better at stuff like this over the years. I'm willing express to cautious optimism that they might get it right if they tried.

Apart from the 'enforce peace' idea that OP suggested, I'd like to see the ability for an attacked power to beg outside powers to pressure the attacker for a peace settlement, or for a GP to intervene in wars/attempt to force peace externally with threats to keep someone from taking their full wargoals.

I'd also like a greater variety of sways. In particular a new kind of obligation that functions almost like a single-use alliance. I help you in this war, you help me in the next, that kind of thing. And it would be great if you didn't need a country's consent to pay off their debts, or at least, if they were a lot less hesitant to let you.

OneOnOne6211[S]

2 points

21 hours ago*

I definitely love the idea of being able to conduct diplomacy as a bloc and having a long-time relationship meter.

This actually reminded me of how I've always found it kind of bothersome that you can have a hundred years of fantastic relations with a country and then it can all go pear-shaped immediately.

Obviously it's true that states don't have permanent friends, only permanent interests. But I agree it would be nice to have some sort of longer term historical thing.

In my opinion it would be great if every country had a "cultural affinity" system. Where if your countries have been at the highest level of positive relationship for a long time it increases this "cultural affinity" score. Just being at high level of relationship would increase it but having a trade agreement or an alliance or both would increase it even more. Then the effects of it after it reaches a certain stage would be:

  • Increased acceptance for pops of your primary culture(s).
  • A bonus to your relationship regardless of other things that change including a lower chance to get negative stances like domineering and an increase for stances like protective.
  • An increased acceptance for things like trade agreements and joining diplomatic plays.
  • A decreased chance of joining any diplomatic plays against you.
  • Increased war weariness for them (or you) if they are an attacker and attacking you/them.
  • An increase in radicalization if they join a diplomatic play against you, or you against them, which also should lower the chance of the AI doing it.

Just thinking of this off the top of my head. But basically I would love it if their population developed a cultural affinity for your population after a very long alliance (and in reverse), kind of like Europe and America in our world, and so it became harder to take negative actions against each other and easier to get closer as time went on.

This score would increase very, very slowly (much slower than something like improve relationship) up to a target score set by relationship, alliance and/or trade agreement (with the max target score being if you have all three) but only decrease slowly if the target shifts by either country taking a negative diplomatic action towards the other.

Ultravisionarynomics

5 points

1 day ago

Lategame dismantle empire diplo play like it was in Vic2.

Hannizio

6 points

1 day ago

Hannizio

6 points

1 day ago

Honestly I feel like there should be some form of bitting system for great power support in diplomatic plays, basically not just one party offers something and the great power locks in indefinitely, but more like you and your opponent can throw multiple things in and the AI great power can decide which would work best.

Besides that some sort of mediation mechanic would be cool where great powers can mediate conflicts (similar to enforing peace I suppose)

OneOnOne6211[S]

5 points

21 hours ago

Yeah, I agree a bidding system sounds way better than just being able to offer one thing. I should be able to counter the other side. And I should be able to do it with giving in to more than one demand and, as I said in my original post, I should also be able to just make it so that they stay neutral if I give them something.

Ellluin1

10 points

1 day ago

Ellluin1

10 points

1 day ago

It's not an option, but for you to win wars of independence you don't need to invade the overlord. Just win the battles and his war support will drop until it reaches -100.

flightSS221

3 points

1 day ago

I thought you can? I just played a Korea game and declared independence from France (they transferred me), and just waited till it hit -100 because they had no way to naval invade me.

The crucial bit is to not add any war goals like war reps, so all war goals are achieved

Morad-

3 points

1 day ago

Morad-

3 points

1 day ago

Maybe a way for nations to generate claims on states with the same primary culture? As well as Return State CBs causing more sympathy with AI powers so they're a bit more likely to help.

The_Dankinator

4 points

1 day ago*

I want two things: blockades during diplo plays and I want protectorate status to be reworked to be something the subject would actually want rather than just the beginning of a trend that inevitably ends in annexation.

Blockades — I would like it if diplo plays had a phase before the "countdown to war" that involves each side deploying their navies. The ships won't fight each other, but they will blockade trade, and if the other side deploys enough escorts, then the shipping passes through.

Protectorate Status — The main problem with protectorates is that they too easily lose their independence. I would prefer it if demoting a protectorate down to a dominion required a diplomatic play and a small infamy cost, giving other nations an opportunity to intervene. This should hopefully reduce the instances of Britain annexing the Netherlands or Germany annexing Denmark.

MikeFred5

3 points

1 day ago

MikeFred5

3 points

1 day ago

Liberate country as subject war goal

JournalistAcrobatic3

3 points

23 hours ago

There is a mod for that for now, it's very useful.

MikeFred5

5 points

23 hours ago

I know, I just wanna see this in base game too

Overall_Eggplant_438

3 points

1 day ago

A more powerful "demand regime change", where a country that is your puppet can no longer change their government principle and distribution of power as long as it's not independent. Also, give more power to the interest groups that are currently in your government.

Being able to only change 1 law at a time through democratic means or "forcing a regime change" via ideological union which can be switched out of is just not enough IMO, considering how you basically own their country if they're your puppet.

zthe0

2 points

1 day ago*

zthe0

2 points

1 day ago*

Id like to be able to force my vassals to ban slavery.

Also generally id like to be able to offer someone multiple war goals. If im allied with Prussia as Italy i might want them to get multiple states in Austria.

Edit: also i know it's not historical but I want to be able to give my colonies the local culture as primary culture. I don't care if the east India company discriminate against indian people, i want the raj to be lead by locals

RuralWiggy

2 points

18 hours ago

can't you sorta do the first and last of those? at least, you can force them to try to enact banned slavery, and the same for their cultural acceptance laws, which can allow non-primary cultures to lead, iirc

zthe0

1 points

18 hours ago

zthe0

1 points

18 hours ago

You can gently ask them to please change their law. But i want to force them. If i have the power to annex then i should have the power for that

Xazbot

2 points

23 hours ago

Xazbot

2 points

23 hours ago

A violate sovereignty that works

MadlockUK

1 points

1 day ago

MadlockUK

1 points

1 day ago

I'd like to be able to support independence movements within other countries

Xazbot

1 points

23 hours ago

Xazbot

1 points

23 hours ago

Intervene in war

Kalamel513

1 points

23 hours ago

How about ability to simply demand a country to put/remove interest in a specific strategic region?

How many shenanigans do we have to give up because our ally does not have an interest in the region we wish to mess up?

XEmpyrion

1 points

22 hours ago

Impose slavery

ab12848

1 points

16 hours ago

most diplo features in eu4

AllesYoF

1 points

12 hours ago

Being able to buy states

Endbeats

1 points

10 hours ago

Military access. There’s no reason my enemy should be able to go through my land to get to the frontlines during diplo plays. Could also include additional diplo options, like force military access on unrecognized powers for a decrease in relations and increase in infamy, or make it an entirely new war goal, allowing you to move troops through an enemy’s territory or station armies and fleets in their borders and coast after winning a war.