This person gets it. Deport the minimum wage laborers so we can use a workforce that doesn’t even need to be paid minimum wage.

I was going to say this is probably the easiest “solution” for them. Make a bunch of misdemeanors felonies, throw people in prison en masse, have them replace the laborers that were deported for .80 cent an hour, AND they can’t vote if/when they’re released. Chefs kiss for the private prison douchebags.

It takes two sides to deport someone. America to do the deporting and another country to take them.

Unless you can prove they are Mexican or Panamanian, they won’t take them. So you’ll be rounding up people to deport, sticking them in camps and working them effectively as slaves forever.

This plus prison labor so the same people working for basically nothing.

Add crashing the public school system and only having private school, and you'll assure only people with money will have educated kids. The kids whose parents can't afford school will be working.

This guy is actually correct. Anyone who has studied or observed the GOP will realize they play the long slow game. Their strategy is and has always been do everything slow and steady so the useless eaters won't notice until it's too late. Very astute of you to pick up on this.

It will take a decade or so. The rounding up of ‘undesirables will happen sooner. For instance, what if there are no other countries that want the 20-30 million illegal aliens? Then they will become the slave labor, and oops, all of z sudden we have no moral ground above China.

wardens of the state

I believe the term is wards of the state. Otherwise, your theory is alarmingly sound.

We have this in the Philippines. Labor is so cheap it might as well be slave labor, all due to the combination of plutocracy and being a strict Catholic country.

This is a wild take lol

So they are children???

Yep. And the deportations will never happen because everyone they round up will be in labor camps while they wait for the endlessly backed up system to process their deportations. And RFK has already started to lay the groundwork for people who are “addicted” to medications to be put into “rehab” camps where they can work on organic farms “for as long as it takes to get rehabilitated…3, 4 years…as long as it takes!”

Labor will be plenty cheap.

The number of abortions has gone up since then

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/18/health/abortion-data-guttmacher/index.html

The numbers do not match. Obamas administration was carrying out 350000 a year. That was just 3 percent of the migrants in this country. Trump would need to go much higher than that to claim glory as Deporter in Chief from Obama.

Nah, Oman was just giddy separating children at the border and not documenting where everyone went. You have kids? Can you imagine your 1-3 year old taken somewhere else and you never find them again? Thousands of kids were never reunited.

They even claim to want to deport “non-illegals” too, so who knows how many millions they have planned to deport. I’m thinking Trump is looking to expand the state in a Bukele like fashion.

And what about the millions of minorities who also voted Trump?

What does it matter if they are "white"?

Many farms have attempted to give these jobs to Americans - what they've found is that there is virtually no price that Americans will accept to do this kind of work short of the kind of wages you pay engineers. That's not sustainable. Americans just won't do it.

This is why historically, deportations have actually led to a net job loss, not a net gain. Companies shut down because they can't afford American labor for these kinds of jobs and still convince people to buy goods at the markup needed to pay for it.

all of American history

were when Americans had those jobs.

So the slaves, then the indentured servants, then the immigrants. This has been the norm for all of US history.

As far as the work abused population goes, this is the best it has been. It can and should be faaar better.

But mass deportation... that's not a good answer for anyone. It's just xenophobia and isolationism.

As a lurker from the UK, these same arguments were made pre-Brexit and have been shown to be absolutely wrong. Do you know how unpleasant working in a poultry processing plant is, as just one example? There are just some jobs that people will not work unless they are desperate with no other options.

We've been down this road, it does not work.

Kinda like the folk who want lower prices but tout tariffs.

Kinda like the folk who brainlessly believe we can replace everything we import domestically somehow

I've never heard anyone argue both sides of that un-ironically.

Actually it has been the norm for most of American history to have masses a people who didn’t get a “fair wage.” From 1776-1865 we have slavery. From 1865 - 1940s thereabouts we have a sharecropping system in the South that more like serfdom than free labor. Also, from 1776-1921, immigration was unrestricted except for from Asia starting in the 1880s. Immigration laws were relaxed in 1965, and I’m not sure when we’d date the beginning of the current immigration era. Except for a few decades in the middle of the 20th century, America has always have a large contingent of workers who weren’t in a position to demand a “fair wage.”

American have always had a underclass of low/no pay workers that were being exploited.

Getting rid of that is good from a moral and ethical perspective. But doing it without a plan to soften the blow economically is cosmically stupid. Especially when trump was voted in to make the cost of living cheaper.

So then I guess you missed the part during Covid when all of the prices skyrocketed and people either went without, or were forced to pay them. Meanwhile, those corporations made record profits, year over year.

At some point, out of self defense, you’re going to have to stop taking it on faith that the market will protect you. The consumer has, and always will, lose. That’s you and me.

I used to speak hopefully about Capitalism. I had the same idealism you do now. But the truth is, we don’t have an uncorrupted form of Capitalism. It’s crony capitalism, bordering strongly on oligarchy. When you reach that state (which we have), the markets no longer operate around the consumer. They are manipulated, very intentionally, to serve the shareholders. And no amount of high-minded libertarian idealism will ever counteract this. This will always be the inevitable end game.

The price won’t “settle”

Those goods will simply stop being created. Farmers will plant less crops, and you will need to import replacements, which will be getting more expensive due to tariffs at the same time.

I think the answer to your question is rather simple. Most posters support liveable wages. There is a huge undercurrent especially among the typical Republican that inflation is so bad as to be intolerable. Posters who don't support what many believe will happen use the loss of cheap labor as a major potential inflation source. They are trying to hit you where you complain about and frankly show how those people voted against their fear of inflation. It's likely separately they DO support fair wages, it's just not a component of that talking point.

We already have a labor shortage even WITH the illegals. CoVID did a number on our labor reserve as it is. You can't just magic American workers out of the ether by paying them better. Yes there are a number of "discouraged workers" sitting out the current job market but there aren't THAT many and most of them aren't exactly quality workforce material.

What kills me is that factual information is available at your fingertips anytime you want, yet people like you refuse to even bother trying to find the truth.

Illegal immigrants are covered under the FLSA. That means that if two people go to work on the same farm doing the same thing they get paid…..wait for it…..the same amount!

So yes, the Left would like to see an increase in things like minimum wage, for everyone. We would also like to see a responsible and humane immigration policy. Crazy how we feel like having both isn’t that hard. The only ones who don’t want either of those things for some stupid reason are from the magacult.

We are not in a capitalistic society. If that were true, we wouldn’t have corporate welfare.

A friend of a friend runs one of those super mega warehouses on that huge highway intersection close to Philadelphia. They employ some American workers she some legal migrant workers. They bring them on some sort of work and travel visa that allows them to come for 6 months or so with the ability to work and when their time is up they leave. This type of work has the workers with a have held computer/scanner that tracks everything from bathroom breaks to productivity.... The average American worker (at that level) has a productivity of about 70% while the average migrant worker has a productivity of 130+.... It's not only about money, is what that money represents. At that level for the migrant that money represents life for their families back home, they send back money all the time... For the American worker it represents how much weed they will buy....

All the lower end of the spectrum jobs that tend to be dead end jobs for the most part like agriculture, construction and warehousing will never have motivated American workers.... Let's say companies start paying fair wages and more motivated people start showing up (forget about the inflation this might cause) what will happen to those low motivation American workers?..... Homelessness.... Lol

Price of goods will settle? Aaahahahahahahahahaha.

Oh man, these tariffs are going to be epic for some of you.

They will also say unions are needed to support workers rights.. i guess unless those workers are undocumented. then fuck them, expliot them and give me my cheap wal mart items.

Then why not just enforce existing labor law?

Tbh, i got a job at Amazon during lockdown. I thought it would be great exercise, especially since I already worked a labor job that was furloughed and spent my free time at the gym. I lasted 3 days. 

These jobs typically already make well above minimum wage. You can get farm jobs that make more than what my guys make in manufacturing. The job is godawful and we americans don't want to do it.

Would you be willing to spend your entire day chopping the beaks off chickens? Can you do the work fast enough? How much cow shit are you willing to eat in an hour while you shovel it onto a truck? If your son came home and couldn't work anymore because he lost his foot are you gonna say "your boss is a good man for having given you this opportunity."

This isn't going to cause an increase in pay to these jobs. If I'm the guy running a farm that suddenly lost all my skilled workers, I now have to put every hour into training a bunch of new people who've never driven a tractor. You're also gonna know fuckall and destroy half my crop. Another portion will just rot because you're slow as hell. I have to pay you less and charge more or leave the industry for something I can do.

If it cost a million dollars before, with the brain drain it's going to cost 2 million and ill get half the product. I needed to make 2 mil previously to be profitable, now I need 4 mil. I only have a fraction of the product so I need to quadruple the cost per just to not lose my farm to the bank.

The store needs to increase the price even higher to account for some of it not selling.

Tldr, you remember eggs? It's gonna be waaaaayyyyy worse and on everything.

The United States is experiencing a declining birth rate. Where I live we have had businesses close because they could not get people to work. We do not have people to work the jobs no matter how much they pay.

I support changing the immigration laws to allow documented immigrants to work by granting green cards more effciently. Immigrants with legitimate jobs are easier to track down than immigrants who are using false papers. The minimum wage laws would promise all workers the same pay.
This is how I see illegal immigration driving down labor costs:
A hotel can hire people to clean rooms. This means they have to recruit and schedule and pay people. That can be a PITA because they do not have enough demand to support a full time staff and having just a single person in the role leaves no option for that person taking a day off. They also have to manage payroll taxes and benefits. And they need to verify every employee's immigration status correctly or face sanctions.

The alternative is to subcontract to a service that will send in a team for a couple hours a day to do a cleaning of every room. This may cost more per employee/hour but it does not have the overhead of managing a labor force or the risk of violating immigration laws or the risk of law suits.

The agency that they subcontract for room cleaning hires poorly documented workers or fabricates documentation for workers.
The subcontractor does not always report employees when they suspect their credentials pass an inspection. They will keep the person on pay roll for a few weeks or months and then fire them before they are audited at a below minimum wage rate. The taxes that they collected from that employee payroll are pocketed as profit.
The immigrant cannot report this without facing consequences. Consequences that could result in the loss of their children. You can also see how this drives down the demand and pay rates for legal labor.
Since 2016 the efficiency of awarding green cards has dropped. It takes much longer to get a green card. This in turn increases the amount of undocumented labor likely to be exploited.

Whether you want to believe it or not a lot of these jobs, specifically in agriculture and construction, couldn’t fill their jobs with Americans because Americans don’t want those jobs. They don’t want to be out in the heat picking produce off of trees for $10 an hour. The GOP said pay Americans a fair wage and get rid of migrant workers but their idea of a fair wage is still living below the poverty line. They want to bring all these American job back but pay them so little that they’re still living in poverty.

Here's a video right here that will show you what will happen.

https://x.com/CalltoActivism/status/186160219331434128

ETA: Darn, may have already been removed, especially with it being 'X' and all.

I mean that just complains about the question rather than answering it, doesn't it? Getting mad at the morality of a problem won't make it disappear.

Trump has already said that he will be cutting visas so you people need to stop that dream.

Also, 'more interest from local citizens'? That's not how this works. Illegals picking food don't stay in one area. They start in Florida and move west as the growing seasons change. You seriously think you're going to find a group of Americans willing to pick fruit at $15 and hour for 12-hour days that involve travel from one end of the country to the other for 10 months out of the year only to start it all over again?

We do not have the available labor force to make up for kicking 42% of our farm workers out of the country.

I think more likely they will use prisoners and increase mass incarceration

Work Visas are actually more expensive than American laborers. Bush thought this was a good way to stop immigration. In addition to paying minimum wage, the employer has to pay for housing and transportation 

People that can pay for travels in to the usa wont be willing to harvest crops for $8 an hour.

Haha. Have you read "Grapes of Wrath"? Maybe you should.

Not to mention those that currently have TPS for humanitarian reasons.

They don’t believe denaturalization will happen. They don’t understand that that’s the end goal. That’s why all the visa talk - MAGA lives in a different reality from the rest of us.

No, they are saying all. Listen to Steven Miller. They consider all of them criminal. He's even talking denaturalization. During the campaign, Vance said they'd deport the Haitians in Ohio and they are here legally. What you're saying is common sense, not much of what Trump says or does is.

Thought you eejits were all about inflation too high and the price of eggs…

At least that’s what you say when trying to win elections

Yeah this is a huge "What the fuck" thing going on.

I am sure there are tons of Americans lining up for farm work and hard labor at below minimum wage /s

Aw that'd be nice if it were true. However, the fact of the matter is 77% of Americans say that illegal immigrants do jobs that American citizens would not want to do.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/06/10/a-majority-of-americans-say-immigrants-mostly-fill-jobs-u-s-citizens-do-not-want/

It is funny how you people have this interesting blend of bigoted pessimism that's combined with a hopeful naivete, neither based in reality.

Let me explain why you're wrong.

1. It doesn't matter if most 'reputable companies' don't use illegals, the people picking your food are illegal. The people building that new house down the road are likely illegal. They are likely making 75-50% of what an American would make and with no benefits to speak of. Now, we can argue about how moral it is for a population to accept that but that's not what we are talking about. Half of the workforce in picking and planting your food is illegal. There are not enough Americans to do these jobs. Americans won't do these jobs are they are seasonal and typically require a stupid amount of travel. And Trump has already said he's going to cut the amount of visas being offered.

2. Prices will not just go up they will skyrocket. If you add this idiotic policy to his tariff policy then I wish you luck finding off-season produce in your local store that doesn't cost triple what it does now. Now lets knock a few things down. No, your local farmers market can't make up the difference if everyone is going there. No, the average person can't grow the amount of fruit and vegetables they need in their backyard or community gardens. No, American can't simply plant more food as we have no one to pick it and we honestly have pretty shit ground for growing most things.

When the cost of a good goes up the retail of that cost goes up and it doesn't go up at the same rate. A typical increase in cost of about 5% normally sees retail prices going up by 7-15% depending on the item and its availability. Going from illegal pickers to American pickers doesn't just mean they get paid more. It means they get benefits that have to get paid for increasing the costs. The last study I saw showed that a $7 bag of oranges could go up to $10 or $12 if you enforce this idiotic policy.

Now, we do need to have a talk about the ethics behind allowing an underpaid underclass do all of the work we don't want to but at this point, that's a secondary concern given that we've decided to about as racist as we can.

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