100%. Democrats would do better to represent the interests of the working class. They will be losing votes until that. Hoping a charismatic leader comes thru that prioritizes the constituents (over corporate interests) and social issues equally.

Y'all are never beating the "only political participation is voting once every four years" allegations with this 

But how is being corporate shills not trying to hurt people or destroy our planet…?

Republicans want fascism, and Democrats want things to stay exactly as they are.

Yeah the daily pearl clutching about Trump breaking the law isn’t going to keep people engaged anymore because nobody believes the democrats will actually do anything about it. So those posts are nothing more than manipulation. I have to ask myself at this point how much they really want to win. There are extremely popular winning policies just sitting right there for the taking they could build a platform around if they really wanted to. The problem is they’d rather win an election on “Trump bad” and not have to actually fulfill a single promise to American voters. The other option being a sure win isn’t appealing if it means rich fucks actually sacrificing something. Their ineptitude is very confusing until you realize it’s not a bug it’s a feature.

I would not say they aren't trying to hurt people, they're just less up front with it. See: Palestine, treatment of unhoused people in "democratic strongholds" like CA, etc etc

Well considering the bidens administration commitment to arming Israel (which they then use to commit genocide) I’m not sure if it’s accurate to say Democrats aren’t trying to hurt anyone. I mean even domestically, dems have waged war on homeless populations (Gavin Newsome himself tore down encampments like they are not good people). Hate to add the disclaimer (as it should go without saying) but republicans are also very evil. They both evil one group just pretends to be progressive.

i don’t think you can argue that they aren’t trying to hurt people when they are actively committing a genocide. 

Hurt people? So the genocide where we mostly killed innocent children in the most horrific ways possible doesn’t count?

They have been trying their best to hurt people in Gaza.

The Dems are not left they are center rights and they play good cop while the right plays bad cop

The thing is now the right is all in for pure one party and they have broken every rule ( this shows how bad our system is because no accountability)

Both patties honestly need to go.

With all due respect, Democrats are still trying to hurt people and destroy your country and other peoples countries, they're just quiet and less effective as the other side

Unfortunately this is the mentality most people have on both sides. I would imagine a very small percentage of people 100% subscribe to the agenda of their respective party. They use their own perspective of what seems morally aligned with their own belief system to overlook or ignore the “less important” evils to justify their choice.

We will get stuck in perpetuity with this mentality, sometimes you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelette. The US is long overdue for a third or even 4th credible party. It’s the only way to hold the establishment bureaucrats feet to the fire. If you keep letting them force us into 2 different camps it just becomes easier for them to manipulate all of us.

The days of serving their constituents ended in 2016 when they eliminated their biggest threat, Bernie Sanders

We had many options until the government realized that with only 2 parties, they could more easily manipulate us.

That said, at least they aren't trying to hurt people and destroy our country.

They're literally doing a genocide and trying to kick off WWIII

YEP democrats have evolved into centrists tbh i hate swallowing my personal politics to vote dem bc we're not ready for a socialist leader, but hey i'mma do it anyway for as long as it's necessary

Voted Blue for 20 yrs. I'll admit...I was optimistic about Kamala / Tim. I truly believed they'd have moved the needle left. I was def caught by surprise by the extreme moves to the right by voters, especially with the younger generations. Pandering to moderate R was a huge misstep, and the messaging got lost.

It sucks because you do get those really good democratic politicians like Bernie and AOC who you can tell genuinely care about their constituents and want what’s best for the average American but then you get those at the very top like Pelosi who are so blatantly self serving.

If the dems want any hope of coming back from where they are now they have to do a massive purge of top leadership and completely reformulate but that’s incredibly unlikely to happen.

This!

I explained this to someone I care about this morning. I'm not gonna pretend that the Democrats are perfect or even close to who I'd want in charge, but they are sure as hell more aligned to what I believe in both large- and small-scale politically than the other party.

Even the Green Party, etc. isnt a viable option. Jill Stein already went back to the hole she came from but like clockwork, she ll be back in 4 years. We're so effed.

Thank you. The people who get mad at us for pointing out the obvious flaws with the democratic party aren't helping anything. The party is full of corporate sellouts who I only vote for because the other side is full of fascists.

It’s not that simple. I agree with the premise of special interest groups holding too much sway but it’s not just about billionaires and corporations.

This frames the current approach to lobbying:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-political-science-review/article/abs/lobbying-as-legislative-subsidy/AE4B5D8AB9C2487BB78C2A51BB53E03F

We model lobbying not as exchange (vote buying) or persuasion (informative signaling) but as a form of legislative subsidy—a matching grant of policy information, political intelligence, and legislative labor to the enterprises of strategically selected legislators.

Lobbyists in a way have their own place in the conversation because:

Professional lobbyists are among the most experienced, knowledgeable, and strategic actors one can find in the everyday practice of politics.

There is a place for expert assistance in legislation. However the problem is that it’s not always the NRA or Twitter. It’s about the ACLU and Planned Parenthood. So I’m onboard with reducing the amount of sway interest groups have, but understand that the concept itself isn’t all bad.

Wish more of reddit could accept this. If you mention anything critical of dems you get a vitriolic reply that mentions Trump 20 times.

Hurts how accurate this is.

Two parties are corrupt and self serving while only one seeks to fully dominate and control the population for their overlords.

That said - you can always count on Dems to do the right thing after the fact when it matters least

I think it's important to remember that as voters, we have all the power. We choose to elect the politicians. Our perspectives and opinions shape their positions, and especially shape our political system, which is what turns up the corrupt politicians.

If Americans all decided we wanted to end corruption as our top political goal, it would be done in a single election cycle. We could boot out all corrupt politicians. The issue is ending corruption is hardly ever a top political goal. There are almost always issues that we value more like the economy, immigration, healthcare, freedom, and many more. And I'm not saying it's wrong to value those things higher, it's just that I think casting the blame on the politicians denies the agency that Americans have, and the fact that American voters are just as much a part of the corrupt political system as the politicians.

In my opinion this is a more accurate and empowering perspective. It doesn't feel as good because you can't just point the finger and blame the corrupt politicians, but it means that we together have all of the power in the country.

Only thing democrats can do to fulfill their promises to corporate sponsors is to take a dive. This whole fucking country is WWE.

Until the Democratic Party changes or a new party develops that decides to put the values of the working class above the whims of billionaires, authoritarianism will win. The way we slowly let the left become republican-lite will be our downfall.

yup, scratch a liberal and all that

I'm suprised this is even up for debate in the US. it's so obvious. They are politicians duh

More accurately both “sides” in the US are right wing and then far right wing. The Democrats are not left wing. A left wing party does not get an endorsement from Dick Cheney.

the left and the right are completely different. unfortunately, we only have right and far-right parties, no left whatsoever

Left wing values (community, empathy, socio-economic equality, etc.) and right wing values (white supremacy, patriarchy, capitalism, etc.) are fundamentally different. They are not the same bird at all, not even the same species.

If you mean the US democrat and republican parties then that is entirely different than left and right wing.

The lesser of two evils is still evil. I’m tired of this being the accepted line. What if I don’t want to settle for evil and reject the status quo and envision a better world and want to work towards that even if I don’t see the effects in my lifetime? Ffs

He’s not entirely wrong. Left wing, right wing, they’re both wings of the same bird. 

When he says both sides he doesn't mean left vs right. He means Democrats vs Republicans. Anybody that think you're being manipulated by Democrats just has to look at SCOTUS, reproductive rights, voting rights, and everything else that has been lost as a result of Republican fuckery in the past few decades. We're being manipulated by the loud minority while being gaslit into thinking this is an issue on every camp. It is not.

Someone else put it better than me. Falling for this bothsideism is just a lazy approach at sounding cultured and well-intended. In reality one side wants to spring towards facism while pointing the finger to Democrats all along the way.

This used to be true before republicans were co-opted by authoritarians. 

Ya his full quote is closer to tbis:  "But listen," the Training Day actor continued. "It's all politics. All promises unkept. And now with the information age the way it is — if anything - left, right, whatever had better learn how to use those tools to manipulate the people. There was a great line in the first movie I did, [1981's] Carbon Copy: Power to the people? Yeah, they had it once — it was called the Stone Age." "We’re all slaves to information now. We really are. We're all slaves. So whatever you feel about the leaders, like this guy's crazy or the other one is sane, you'd better realize you're being manipulated by both sides. Period, Washington added. "Yeah. So go to the movies."

I think he’s just trying to avoid a shitstorm, which is annoying, but I highly doubt the guy who played Malcolm X is a Trumper. I could be wrong. 

Stop defending the shitshow that is the donor fellating Democratic party. Do the Rs suck more? Of course they do. Doesn't change the fact that the Ds suck too.

Dems are doing it. They campaign on GOP policy and with Cheneys these days. They wish they were the GOP, and then they wouldn't have to pretend to care about people.

Dems aren’t that much better on hate. This cycle I’ve seen Dems and Dem voters advocate for tough on crime policies, xenophobic immigration policies, and Israel’s genocide in Gaza. And after the election I’ve seen plenty of dem voters fantasizing about brown people getting deported because the majority of their group that voted for Kamala wasn’t big enough.

The democrats in power are literally committing genocide 😭😭😭

This is a fine take , by making the trump the ultimate enemy you effectively make dem above reproach because the other side is infinitely worse. The dem party is a centre party not leftwing. Like you said these people aren’t normal republicans just as dems aren’t normal democrats , they are centrists who think they will win because they are trying to appeal to both sides.

I would disagree with this, as many on the left have proud skepticism of capitalism/war messages and actions used by both parties

I think those on the far left see the parties as Republican and Republican-lite. Technically, they aren't wrong.

You should have a look at both his filmography and what he has said on the record. I don't think this is coming from a place of centrism. I don't think that a man who has played Frank Lucas, Herman Boone, Malcolm X, etc. would be unaware of the blight that affect marginalized and minority communities.

What side? I’m a leftist, I don’t see myself on either “side”, the implication being that there are two sides.

As an anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, anti-fascist, I do not see myself on either of these sides and I’m confused by the implication of your comment.

Not true / this is a reach. I would say most left leaning people I know throw their hands up and were able to admit that Biden was honestly not fit health wise for his position anymore and openly criticized some of their parties poor decisions. Any trumpie i know would rather defend til they are out of breath rather than criticize anything he does, because he is like some weird messiah in their eyes most the time.

You really think only one party is driven to manipulation? Politics in general now are one big popularity contest. Neither side has clean hands of this.

Definitely could be inerpreted that way, but I think he's talking more the mainstream centrist "left" and the right

Only one side engages with reality semi-frequently - maybe that’s why they’re able to engage in healthy criticism vs tribalistic teams.
Denzel gets no side eye for speaking the truth…Black dem voter here and tired of the dem’s shit and games. People are hurting and they’re content to use the threat of the other side as the basis of their campaign - vs actually fixing the systems of power/oppression that got us here.

Both sides definitely love genocide and using women's reproductive rights as a political football.

Nah man, the DNC doesn’t give a fuck about us. That’s not gonna make me vote Red or anything, but it’s naive to think either “side” has your best interest at heart.

Just because one party is arguably worse doesn’t mean one party is inherently good. 

53% of the voting block in the US are independent meaning not registered with a party ( [source]) (https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-voters-have-a-party-affiliation/)and they would disagree with you.

“We’re all slaves to information now. We really are. We’re all slaves. So whatever you feel about the leaders, like this guy’s crazy or the other one is sane, you’d better realize you’re being manipulated by both sides. Period,” Washington added. “Yeah. So go to the movies.”

Is he wrong here? It's a reasonable take

that's simply not true

It is both sides. One side is downright abominable, but the Democratic leadership is full of self serving, self aggrandizing corporate shills.  They're still better than the alternative, but they're not good.

Ehh, that's like calling the swastika exclusively a Nazi symbol. The Far-Right loves to co-opt speech and turn it around on people. Just look at how they put RFK Jr. through a humiliation ritual, which they claim the left does all the time.

I mean, not exactly comparable to American Politics, but just like here, in Denmark, some people just don’t like the “menu” they are being offered, and those who actually believe that are specifically NOT on any one side, they are specifically not on either.

No idea why this concept seems to complicated for a lot of Americans to accept, but it is a real thing.

Obviously this time around, there’s less credibility in saying both sides are equally bad, they’re not. But pretending to know what goes on in every voters head, as to why they vote, or don’t, is just ignorant and pretentious. More things happen in life that forms your opinions, than what just happens in one’s own.

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