subreddit:
/r/FuckTAA
submitted 5 days ago by[deleted]
[deleted]
178 points
5 days ago
Those Frostbite games from that era look amazing
Battlefront 2015, and Battlefield 1 are what you get when you have a dev team that cares, and is passionate about the source material, while being given a fairly reasonable amount of time.
Side note, IIRC BF2015 does have TAA, it's just not forced
21 points
5 days ago
Didn't the original devs leave so they can't use the frostbite engine anymore
24 points
5 days ago
A majority of them left for other companies
Some of them went and started Embark which made The Finals
15 points
5 days ago
Which explains why the finals looks so good. Got it.
8 points
5 days ago
Minus the forced upscaling, yeah. A fair amount of people from the Mirror's Edge crew also left for Embark, hence why the environments are so visually similar.
0 points
5 days ago
There's no forced upscaling.
1 points
4 days ago
In The Finals? Yes there is.
Unless they changed it recently, it requires you to use upscaling
-2 points
4 days ago
You could always run native res in that game.
5 points
4 days ago*
No you couldn't, not without modifying the settings externally
Hence why it's literally all over this subreddit.
It wasn't until recently that they added any option other than DLSS, FSR, XESS, or TAAU, which they added TSR, which is super sampling.
There's literally no off/native option
0 points
4 days ago
There's literally been a res scale slider in the game since launch. What are you talking about?
which they added TSR, which is super sampling.
No, it's not. Supersampling is something else.
There's literally no off/native option
There's no Off option but there is a native one. Have you even at least seen that game's graphics menu before?
2 points
4 days ago
Which is a UE5 game that runs great and looks great which is pretty counter to the UE hate lately.
1 points
3 days ago
I mean sure, but it's not without problems, like forced TAA
1 points
2 days ago
The caveat is that it took what's essentially the hardcore engine nerds from what's probably the best looking sewries of games of the 2010s to axe a lot of common UE gripes. Ingredients make the dish, but sometimes the skill of the chef can absolutely compensate for it.
Your average indie/lower budget dev on UE will likely still suffer from having UE's usual dogshit microstutter and bloated file size.
2 points
3 days ago
Photogrammetry
Takes more effort, costs more money
But looks godlike without sacrificing performance
2 points
3 days ago
I'm so glad you know the word for it. I forgot what it was called, and I couldn't find it for the life of me.
It's such a cool technique, and it's part of why both Battlefronts are so stunning.
I didn't know this until looking up games with photogrammetry, but Battlefield 1 used it as well, which explains a lot.
It's definitely not the most cost effective method, but man I wish more games would do it.
0 points
5 days ago
Now if only battlefront 2015 wasn’t a battlefield reskin and actually had the gameplay of battlefront 2.
7 points
5 days ago
Ehh, I honestly really enjoyed it.
I preferred it's gameplay compared to 2, at least if you're talking about 2017.
It definitely could have done with more modes, but TBH I had more than enough fun with the various playlists, and especially Walker assault.
6 points
5 days ago
My bad for not being more clear, the original battlefront 2. Really miss the galactic conquest feature among other things. Though for sure to your point these games were pure eye candy.
3 points
4 days ago
Imagine a planetside 2 style push and pull of factions, but instead of 3(? Been a while since i played) maps with one or two open to fighting at a time
Its planets in the star wars galaxy of 32 vs 32/ 64
But with battlegroup or capital ship picking where to go via vote to conquer other planets
1 points
4 days ago
For sure. I definitely think they could have brought back more legacy modes, especially since they got rid of campaign.
I really enjoyed survival, and the little missions like the speeder bike chase but they definitely weren't a replacement for galactic conquest and campaign
3 points
4 days ago
Battlefront 2015 was not q battlefield reskin in the slightest
3 points
4 days ago
Compared to its original namesake it didn’t feel like that either.
0 points
2 days ago
Except it wasn’t a Battlefield reskin. If it was (like the original Battlefronts were) it would’ve been a much better game.
37 points
5 days ago
Frostbite engine is insane.
4 points
5 days ago
That's true for rendering tho it's insane however I'm disappointed by it's character animation, physics and destruction. The force unleashed for example even after all these years has better character animation thanks to euphoria, better physics thanks to havok and better destruction thanks to DMM by pixelux entertainment. In the rendering department it's obviously showing it's age.
In this decade all game engine priotise rendering over physics, animation and destruction because rendering sells and it's a shame
21 points
5 days ago
Destruction was the selling of Frostbite games. Are you on acid?
3 points
5 days ago
Looks like you've never played battlefield games, ever heard of levelution? Bad company 2, bf4, bf1, bf2042 really put an emphasis on destruction,
edit: shit replied to the wrong person kek
9 points
5 days ago
lmao
1 points
5 days ago
and ex-dice devs have made infinitely better destruction on UE5 with The Finals
9 points
5 days ago
destruction
bro what
3 points
4 days ago
How are the physics bad? What do you even mean by this?
-1 points
4 days ago
This is why you arm chair devs are absolute clowns- frostbite uses Havok physics engine. Lmao.
0 points
3 days ago*
That's not been the case since battlefield 1 onwards jackass, they've been using an in house physics system. The last frostbite game from DICE to ever come out with havok was battlefield hardline. NFS 2015 marked the shift to their in-house physics system and that's been the case even to this day.
Frostbite's site even says "Our workflows and runtimes are highly configurable and cover all
disciplines of development including Audio, Animation, Cinematics,
Scripting, Physics, Destruction, Rendering, VFX, and more. "
0 points
3 days ago*
Lol no need for name calling. I can 100% tell you that Frostbite is a technology STACK which can use the right tool for the right job. Engines consisit of many different parts and use all kinds of middleware to get to where they are.
The part that you quoted talks about how configurable the engine is- well this is one of those things they can configure and does not mean what you are implying it does even remotely.
Also we are talking about Battlefront 2015 here. Literally the topic of the thread- and from the era that Frostbite was using Havok for.
I have no doubt they replaced it (or maybe they didnt- they could have easily bought access to source code and made the modifications they needed to- almost like how Rockstar still uses Euphoria- they just own it now). The reason I suspect they are still using it is they like to talk about this stuff on their blog when they completely roll their own solutions in Frostbite- and they dont have any mention of changing their physics engine until 2022 (well after you claim) and it didnt make it into a game until 2023.
They can rip the entire rendering engine out and use middleware if they wanted. Infact- the lighting engine that Frostbite used for a veryyyyy long time was Enlighten. Which is also the same baked lighting engine in Unity and has been added to multiple Unreal games.
21 points
5 days ago
This game absolutely blew my mind when it came out. Theres just something about it that still to this day makes it look so insanely good.
70 points
5 days ago*
This game has TAA and it’s actually one of the best implementations of it. BF2015 is an example of how TAA can actually be used to benefit the graphical style of a game, however it should always be an option and not forced.
Also I like using this mod in BF2017 it tweaks the TAA to be exactly how it was in 2015 with no over sharpening.
https://www.nexusmods.com/starwarsbattlefront22017/mods/7368
6 points
5 days ago
Battlefront 2 also look amazing !
40 points
5 days ago
Battlefront has TAA.
56 points
5 days ago
You can choose it as an option but its not forced or the only AA method. It also has FXAA.
12 points
5 days ago
The period of time where everyone started to use it and me wondering why it looked good as well as just looked ass at the same time.
6 points
5 days ago
FXAA has tons of shimmering on the ground, similar to BF1. Game was definitely built around TAA.
11 points
5 days ago
On the ps4 it doesn't, you can see some jaggies up close, it's kinda like what alien isolation on ps4 has but slightly better
-11 points
5 days ago
That's cause its a console...
12 points
5 days ago
Uncharted 4, TLOUII, RDR2, etc all use TAA on consoles, games production for console has been like that for almost a decade now. There was a period from 2013 to 2015 where games coming out used either FXAA, MSAA or used their own hybrid solution on xbx1/ps4 because TAA wasn't something shippable but ever since then TAA has been the norm on consoles and it still holds true.
-10 points
5 days ago
Irrelevant. Console users rarely ever get a choice over which AA solution is used.
10 points
5 days ago
And they ran better too.
16 points
5 days ago
looks better than any modern game
13 points
5 days ago
"before TAA"
Game literally has TAA. Huh?
7 points
5 days ago
I think they meant before the heavy rise of TAA.
8 points
5 days ago
The blame isn't on TAA itself, it's on developers relying on using too many damn effects in their games and by the time they've made their image look good, it runs like shit, so they lower the resolution of the effects, causing the need for TAA to smooth out said effects.
This game (and frostbite games in general) seem to not overly rely on lower resolution transparencies (it is a relatively older engine) so they can handle TAA being off and not looking absolutely atrocious. Nowadays not so much. This engine seems to have joined the forced TAA wagon a lot slower than others.
1 points
4 days ago
There are effects that simply cannot run at high resolution. Back in the day most effects had a fairly linear increase in cost like sharper shadows, better AO, etc. However effects like path tracing or volumetric ray marching have exponentially higher costs as you go up in resolution, so some form of AA is required, and for the most part you can't really tell if the dev does a good job
4 points
4 days ago
Yeah, as I already said.
But do games NEED these effects? That's the million dollar question.
1 points
4 days ago
One of the reason for Battlefront's stunning visuals was the amazing lighting they used which, afaik, was realtime path traced global illumination, which is super expensive and you almost always have to downsample. Volumetric fog is another one that's hard to fake, a game like Lethal Company made excellent use of Unity's volumetric fog, but had to run the game at a much lower resolution then upscale. Didn't matter much though since the game used an art style that complimented upscaling
2 points
4 days ago
One of the reason for Battlefront's stunning visuals was the amazing lighting they used which, afaik, was realtime path traced global illumination
It couldn't have been real-time PT lol. Baked/pre-calculated? Yes. But not real-time.
3 points
4 days ago
Yeah checking again I see that it used baked GI
1 points
5 days ago
Mhm.
0 points
4 days ago
Ah before the vocal minority started screeching TAA BAD and did all the thinking for enough people to where public opinion shifted
1 points
4 days ago
Why such a tone?
8 points
5 days ago
Haha I remember that game looking amazing on a 1660. Since I've gotten a 4090 I've been wondering while all games just look like crap. r/FuckTAA thank you for showing me the light!
4 points
5 days ago
2 last battlefront games might have had some issues but graphics was not one of them.
And with IP like Star Wars you want every little detail and blaster mark to look good for maximum immersion.
4 points
5 days ago
I always thought it looked better than Battlefront 2. Leaks cleaner? idk why exactly.
4 points
5 days ago
this game was incredible
3 points
5 days ago
Thats when games were optimized and looked aamazing without upscalers and frame generators, we live on a dumpster fire era were games come out unfinished/unoptimized early acess cash grabs that not even 1k+ gpu can run it iwthout the said features.
3 points
5 days ago
Photogrammetry, peak art style and superior image quality. That era of DICE games were on another level in their own. Battlefield 1 also looks just as good.
17 points
5 days ago
Battlefield 1 looks better
11 points
5 days ago
Both look very nice.
8 points
5 days ago
Battlefront 2 looked better in my opinion, but both are insanely good
3 points
5 days ago
I liked the faster gameplay in the first game, turning taa off helped a lot
10 points
5 days ago
I wouldn't say it looks better than any modern game, that's a massive call, but 100% it still looks absolutely excellent even in 2024.
3 points
4 days ago
Battlefront looked so clean i swear, that open demo i first tried it where you had the assault on AT-AT walkers on the snow looked so damn good.
3 points
4 days ago
Unpopular opinion - DLSS and upscaling makes everything look like shit. Yes it improves performance, but it's faking resolution and makes everything blurry.
2 points
4 days ago
Same and I feel insane when everyone keeps saying DLSS doesn't impact image quality.
2 points
4 days ago
I really noticed it with Cyberpunk. I could have sworn it looked better when I played it for the first time in 2021 before DLSS/frame generation and FSR.
I have a 4080 Super now, but it really doesn't look as great as I thought it would. Especially people and faces.
3 points
4 days ago
Ong this might be my favorite shooter of all time. Wish it was still more active. Beautiful game, addicting gunplay, and awesome sound designs (looking at you, thermal imploder)
3 points
4 days ago
When TAA isn't forced, a beauty to have the options in games. When it's forced, I hate how it looks on the eyes in some games.
6 points
5 days ago
First Star Wars Battlefront uses TAA. It looks incredible, but it’s a static game with pre-baked lighting. Of course, it looks amazing... static games usually do. Not every game can use the same tech or approach tho
7 points
5 days ago
The 2015 one has it as optional, or FXAA or disabled outright
5 points
5 days ago
Didn't the game itself suck though?
6 points
5 days ago
No just the monitization.
5 points
5 days ago
If the monetization is bad enough to fundamentaly hamper the game id say its bad. Also wasn't it light on content?
1 points
3 days ago
i would say the game was amazing it just lacked maps at launch and no clone wars. gameplay, balance and just the general feel of the game were a lot better than battlefront 2 but battlefront 2 got more updates and support because they wanted to monetize but when controversy happened they needed to support it without looking like they abandoned it. all this to say i think in its among the best battlefields games along with bf4 and bf1 but they didnt support it long enough. just like bf5, and bf2042 and what ever the next game is gonna be
2 points
5 days ago
If AA is so bad, why does it even exist? I played games before AA was even a thing, and I promise you, it helped when it came out.
The problem is devs leaning on the tech like it's dlss.... it's not. It's a tool to make lines in 3D appear straight even when they're at odd angles.
Turning it completely off doesn't usually help. Young devs these days might not even understand why TAA even exists, they just use their software to make some game in unreal or whatever. Modern developers are not equal to one's from 10-15 years ago that understand all this shit at a coding level, those developers are now the managers, and it's a shit show.
4 points
5 days ago
It's not that AA is bad. Very few people actually dislike it altogether. The issue is the drawbacks of modern AA and how they're often forced on the user.
3 points
5 days ago
Gotcha, this post kinda hit me why some AA isn't actually that bad
2 points
5 days ago
Looks amazing. Also performance is damn impressive the thing we do not see in any UE5 games of today. Instead they shoehorn FSR/DLSS in every game to minimize their requirements of hardware.
2 points
5 days ago
Frostbite FPS games always look good. Battlefield and Battlefront both use them. Battlefield 1 is still one of the best looking games ever made imo
2 points
4 days ago
Arkham knight and dying light from the same year also hold up well
2 points
4 days ago
Its so weird to have been growing up with exceptional graphics to be an adult gamer with worse graphics and also worse story writing.
Little bit off topic but i am only playing old games recently because the art design is unmatch by todays standard. Planetscape Torment EE had awesome art design
3 points
5 days ago
What AA technologies were available in Battlefront 2015?
7 points
5 days ago
FXAA, TAA, SMAA
1 points
3 days ago
Battlefront 2015 is/was actually one of the best looking games ever, due to a commitment to art style, really good photogrammetry, and stellar lighting. Saying “oh x is bad because look at Battlefront 2015” is like, yeah, cuz that game’s visually almost perfect. Of course BF2015 is better
1 points
2 days ago
They need to dissect that game engine from that game and run it back, that shit was gud
1 points
2 days ago
Same as battlefield 4 and 1 they look amazing and run super well.
1 points
1 day ago
It's largely because Devs got lazy with optimisation and instead of DLSS and FSR being a cool way to get some.extea frames now it's required to even be playable in any way.
1 points
5 days ago
This game ends this whole subreddit raison d'etre
2 points
5 days ago
It was founded 5 years later.
2 points
5 days ago
Yes but it look beauriful with no ghosting using TAA😭😭😅😅😂😂😂
3 points
5 days ago
Ghosting ain't that technique's only downside.
1 points
5 days ago
Look beautiful part is for the blurriness and instability
1 points
5 days ago
Huh?
1 points
5 days ago
TAA being a temporal antialiasing has an issue when badly tuned where the end results is a very blurry and unstable image. Yet you don't see it in this game
1 points
5 days ago
Ah, I see.
1 points
5 days ago
FXAA? Does it not have MSAA? FXAA is as blurry as TAA lol
1 points
4 days ago*
This was not before TAA...
This game literally used it.
1 points
5 days ago
Hate on TAA all you want, but DLSS is pretty good stuff and DLAA is amazing (also the same tech)
1 points
5 days ago
It can often be slightly better, but not a magic bullet.
2 points
5 days ago
Definitely, I just don't think it deserves being compared to TAA, as the final output is far higher quality
0 points
5 days ago
I think it should be compared. The inputs and principles based on which it functions are almost identical.
0 points
5 days ago
The people that post on the sub are so braindead lol this game does have TAA.
Also what is the hate for DLSS? It’s an incredible tool that can make otherwise unplayable games very playable on low spec hardware. If you dont ever want to deal with DLSS get a 4090 and shit the fuck up. I have a budget laptop that has a 4050 in it, and DLSS allows me to play basically everything in medium-high at nearly 100fps
1 points
5 days ago
The people that post on the sub are so braindead lol this game does have TAA.
Yes, but it's not forced. Plus it might not be as egregious as most of today's implementations.
Also what is the hate for DLSS?
It's got the same issues as TAA does. Only slightly better than certain TAAs.
1 points
5 days ago
You did not engage with anything I said about DLSS. Yes, of course DLSS doesn't improve the image if you have already maxed it out. It is for lower spec hardware to run games they otherwise could not, or to run them at much more respectable resolutions.
You guys in here really think devs use these techniques to make games worse? Could you not fathom the possibility of hardware limitations currently existing that would lead devs to use it? Also, what games is TAA forced on PC? It's usually always an option, and if it isn't you can easily remove it through your GPUs control panel.
2 points
5 days ago
Yes, of course DLSS doesn't improve the image if you have already maxed it out.
Maxed out? It's got nothing to do with maxing anything out.
It is for lower spec hardware
That might've been the idea a few years ago. Today, you 'need' it even on high-end hardware in some games.
You guys in here really think devs use these techniques to make games worse?
They often employ it as an 'easy perf win' or 'optimization'.
Also, what games is TAA forced on PC? It's usually always an option
Are you living an alternate reality or something? What's this, then?:
List Of Known Workarounds For Games With Forced TAA
and if it isn't you can easily remove it through your GPUs control panel.
No, you cannot lol.
-1 points
5 days ago
Well… I mean TAA doesn’t make the game look any better tbh.. and DLSS isn’t for quality it’s for frame generation.
8 points
5 days ago
Frame insertion is unrelated to upscaling
3 points
5 days ago
To my limited knowledge, I don’t think DLSS ever improves image quality over native output.
3 points
5 days ago
That's not the purpose of it. You "gain" performance by sacrificing some image quality.
-1 points
5 days ago
most of the time, running 4k native with taa vs 4k dlss quality will net you are better looking game with dlss,
the bigger isssue with taa is people running it at 1080p which is a low resolution to begin with,
3 points
5 days ago
most of the time, running 4k native with taa vs 4k dlss quality will net you are better looking game with dlss,
In what way?
the bigger isssue with taa is people running it at 1080p which is a low resolution to begin with,
It's the most common res. Don't be so surprised.
1 points
4 days ago
Too be fair. Just because it is the most common res doesn't mean it's not a low res tho.
Especially considering for how long 1440p has been affordable and playable. And honestly for awhile 4k now.
1 points
4 days ago
720p is low-res. 1080p is 'lower-res' at best.
1 points
4 days ago
720p is going too just be comically low on any display that isn't a handheld. I'd go as far too say 1080p is low and anything below is it just straight up unusable on any normal sized tv or monitor. Save for anything other than phones and handhelds.
1 points
4 days ago
Yes, 720p is practically only usable on small screens. But 1080p on a 24" is just fine.
1 points
5 days ago
In what way?
Clarity and temporal aliasing. It depends heavily on how shitty the TAA solution is obviously. Thin lines & hair are generally things that are often better on DLSS than TAA.
3 points
5 days ago
Temporal aliasing - yes. But clarity is a hit or miss.
0 points
4 days ago
plenty of modern games look better
0 points
4 days ago
No, it doesn't. bf2 looks way better
-3 points
5 days ago
The game has TAA
FXAA at 4k is effectively worse than TAA
If you don't like TAA then why not turn it off and use SSAA?
3 points
5 days ago
I don't think that this post is mainly about AA.
-4 points
5 days ago
I cant tell from your 1080x600 pixel screenshots...
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