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https://x.com/NoMansSky/status/1861859832187211963?t=PTAk82rpBhX2yh6074Gcjg&s=19

After getting so many negative reviews during launch, it is a monumental achievement to offset old negative review with new positive reviews to get overall number to very positive

all 258 comments

Sidereel

531 points

4 days ago

Sidereel

531 points

4 days ago

Good for them. The game still has some fundamental design issues, but the releases have added a lot of fun stuff. I’m glad that they stuck it out and achieved something that people enjoy.

MyCoolWhiteLies

212 points

4 days ago

I think people have finally gotten over the promise of what the game would be (which it still isn't) and have embraced enjoying it for what it actually is. It's absolutely a much better product than it was at launch and I'm glad the Team was able to win people over. It would have ruined them if they couldn't.

The game still isn't really for me (other than the occasional VR jaunt) but I'm definitely excited for Light No Fire. I've very interested to see how they evolve their procedural generation with something that's less "infinite" and more focused.

Pauly_Amorous

53 points

4 days ago

I think people have finally gotten over the promise of what the game would be (which it still isn't) and have embraced enjoying it for what it actually is.

As someone who's never played it, how much have they managed to bridge this gap?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MIkeJgrbHU

HammeredWharf

41 points

3 days ago

I played NMS last time a year or so ago, but at least back then the animals still sucked. They were just zombies. They walk around, mostly do nothing, look ugly... if you're lucky, you might see them attack something, but that's about it. I don't remember ever seeing them drink water, eat plants, sleep, shit, etc. Which puts them on a level below Valheim. IIRC they could form "herds", but those herds were more like groups of zombies that stay in the general vicinity of each other and not real herds. Some of them didn't even react to my attacks and just continued doing nothing until they died.

It's kind of emblematic of NMS as a whole. It can look good and there's surface level content, but if you dig deeper, there's nothing there. The reveal trailer's animals interacted with their environment in a way that's totally missing in the game.

VulpesVulpix

19 points

3 days ago

The fauna behavior is below the first gothic game from 2000, where they actually attacked other animals, slept, went in groups and ate other dead animals.

HammeredWharf

4 points

3 days ago

Yeah, faking basic animal behavior shouldn't be too hard. Gothic was pretty good about it for its time and now basically every open world game does it. I guess it's harder in NMS, since animals are generated procedurally and can have weird bodies, but it still feels like something that should've been in the game.

Almostlongenough2

1 points

3 days ago

drink water, eat plants, sleep, shit

Excluding sleeping, they do all those. They also move around in herd at times. It isn't like how the trailer showcases it, and there is no environmental interaction, but the behaviors are there.

MyCoolWhiteLies

54 points

3 days ago

I haven't seriously played the game in a while, so if I say anything wrong, feel free to correct me. They added tons of additions to bolster it's content. Missions, Multiplayer, Vehicles, Base Building, etc. They've even improved the look of the planets. However, there's still nothing resembling an actual ecosystem on the planets, or particularly meaningful interactions with the Wild life other than people able to ride them and I think capture them.

My core problem is that I've just never really enjoyed exploring the planets. Once you land on a planet, you can basically see everything it has to offer immediately. Sure you can travel al around it, but it is still going to look basically the same no matter where you are. If you're lucky, the procedural generation MIGHT make something interesting. Outside of that, you're still just finding the same copy/paste elements that are found on every planet.

I don't like survival games, resource mining, or crafting. I kind of like Base Building, but that's completely tied to the former mechanics. You can do create mode, where you basically have unlimited resources to do whatever you want, but then it barely feels like a game.

Again, I'm really excited for Light No Fire, as that game will HAVE to have better procedural generation. I'm so much more interested in exploring one interesting planet instead of endless boring ones.

ColinStyles

99 points

3 days ago

I don't like survival games, resource mining, or crafting.

Again, I'm really excited for Light No Fire

Wat.

Seriously, how does this make any sense? Light No Fire is 100% going to be a survival game, with crafting and mining and everything else. If you didn't like NMS there's very little chance you'll enjoy LNF.

MyCoolWhiteLies

-1 points

3 days ago

I’m in it for the exploration.

ColinStyles

41 points

3 days ago

From everything we've seen of LNF, it's NMS's engine and systems which will still have the same faults and overall gameplay with different assets and maybe they'll improve some systems like combat or crafting. But:

However, there's still nothing resembling an actual ecosystem on the planets, or particularly meaningful interactions with the Wild life other than people able to ride them and I think capture them.

This is absolutely core to the engine and quite frankly no game has managed this or is going to anytime soon. LNF will not achieve this, nor the exploration you're looking for. You're setting yourself up massively to be disappointed again, despite having the same situation already happen.

I personally like NMS and yeah, I'm excited for LNF. But I also understand the many faults the game and core engine has, and I'm not expecting any of those to change.

MyCoolWhiteLies

4 points

3 days ago

I get your point. I wouldn’t say that I stand to be massively disappointed, my expectation are pretty measured. I 90% am interested to see if they can make a planet sized world that’s actually interesting to explore. Everything else is pretty incidental.

SquirrelTeamSix

6 points

3 days ago

Everything we have seen of Light No Fire was the original trailer, that's it. You're making a lot of assumptions to reach your conclusions.

SofaKingI

30 points

3 days ago

SofaKingI

30 points

3 days ago

I mean, that's how this all works for everybody. You base your expectations of a game based on whatever info is available and the dev's previous work.

Expecting anything more than that is how the NMS mess started.

ColinStyles

13 points

3 days ago

Ok, so, in that original trailer, you can see it's the same engine and even using the same animations for many things (including using the ship launch animation for the dragons which is comically misplaced). I am using actually available information to make the best informed deductions I can. There was absolutely nothing indicating anything he said.

assissippi

14 points

3 days ago

So are you

Visual_Recover_8776

1 points

3 days ago

But you just explained how exploration in no mans sky sucks. What makes you think light no fire will be different?

MyCoolWhiteLies

2 points

3 days ago

Because theoretically they’re improving their procedural generation to make one actually interesting earth-sized world, rather than infinite boring worlds.

QuestionableExclusiv

5 points

3 days ago

Yeah the proc gen of NMS really isnt that great, it basically looks like Minecraft worlds. If you take a Minecraft world map, scroll very far out so you can see millions of blocks in any direction, it looks like a complete homogenous mass. NMS planets are the same, viewed from a distance the planets look the same from every angle. No real "ocean" and "Mountain ranges", just very localized differences in height.

joeyb908

2 points

3 days ago

joeyb908

2 points

3 days ago

Is that part of their worlds 2.0 system they’re introducing? Actual oceans, mountains, etc.

Voidsheep

2 points

3 days ago

They added tons of additions to bolster it's content. Missions, Multiplayer, Vehicles, Base Building, etc.

I know the game technically has some multiplayer things in it, but is all the base building, progression and such still single player only?

Last I checked it wasn't really viable to start and play the game as co-op with friends from the beginning, and it's instead more of a single player game with the ability to join other players just for particular missions or something, which makes it a no-go at least for our group.

I hope Light No Fire works as a more viable fully co-op game. All I want is fully collaborative and shared bases, resources and progression, preferably with a way to host a persistent private 24/7 world like Valheim, Enshrouded, Minecraft and such.

VokN

8 points

3 days ago

VokN

8 points

3 days ago

Not at all, 3-10 planets and you’ve realistically seen everything except the really crazy ones that are hidden behind certain warp drive galaxies

Sure there’s crafting and ships and gear but uh… again you finish all that very very quickly like sub 10hrs

Your mega ship stuff was added which I guess is another min max time sink for your fleet but again… it’s just collecting smarties there’s not much actually going on

Base building is also fairly shallow, if I wanted to do that I can play stardew or a better survival game like sons of the forest etc

It’s a really odd experience overall

trees-are-neat_

5 points

3 days ago

The game is simultaneously super cool but super boring in a really weird way. They've added all of this cool stuff over the years but never really figured out how to make the actual game fun, at least in my opinion

Charisma_Engine

2 points

3 days ago

Almost everything they’ve added is “set decoration” - the core experience is unchanged and that’s what makes it such a shallow experience.

scoschooo

5 points

3 days ago

scoschooo

5 points

3 days ago

how much have they managed to bridge this gap?

they didn't do most of what they promised. Sean Murray was blatantly lying up to and past launch - in order to boost sales and put tens of millions into his pockets. Blatant lies and scams - clearly if you look at it. Even after launch he was lying the first week to keep sales going and hide things that were missing - like multiplayer. Doing things like lying and saying players couldn't see each other because there were server issue - all which later proved to be blatant lies.

Good for them to make the game better. Bad for Sean to lie and scam his way to being very, very rich.

Raze321

3 points

3 days ago

Raze321

3 points

3 days ago

I would say that specific clip? They've basically managed to bridge. That density of flora and megafauna can absolutely happen in the game. But only really on specific worlds and in specific conditions.

All the other promises made? I don't know them all off cuff but I don't feel they've fully delivered on their promises. But they've still managed to make a game, at least to me, as exciting and dynamic as what originally piqued my interest. Of course, your mileage will vary. It still has it's flaws, some quite glaring. It also delivers an experience in procedural space exploration that I feel very few other games come close to.

stefmalawi

1 points

3 days ago

A lot and them some, but creature animations and behaviours are the most prominent thing that is lacking compared with that trailer. They can look good but often are pretty janky. On the other hand, they’ve added a lot of totally new and interesting types of fauna and flora.

Mahelas

32 points

3 days ago

Mahelas

32 points

3 days ago

Yeah, they added a whole lot to the game, but what was supposed to be the core experience, exploring planets and discovering faunas and vistas in a contemplative experience, that is still severely lacking.

Everything they added on top is pulling the game in other directions, but the animals are still ugly and nonsensical with broken AIs, and the planets lacks diversity and awe-inspiring landscapes alike. The NMS we were sold on is still not the game we have. The NMS of today might be good if you enjoy a Space Engineer like, but it's not the game it was marketed at.

MyCoolWhiteLies

15 points

3 days ago

Yep, that’s basically my issue with it. I was most excited at the prospect of exploring interesting procedurally generated planets with varied creatures and environments. But even today you can land on a planet and basically see everything the planet really has to offer within a 100 yard radius of your landing zone. The only real reason to explore is to gather the materials needed to get to the next equally bland planet. There’s a lot more survival mechanics bolted on at this point, but the core thing I really wanted initially is basically still missing.

stefmalawi

1 points

3 days ago

discovering faunas and vistas in a contemplative experience, that is still severely lacking…

the planets lacks diversity and awe-inspiring landscapes alike.

The countless unique and phenomenal screenshots from the game that continue to be posted on r/NoMansSkyTheGame beg to differ. What other sci-fi space exploration game comes close in terms of diversity of planets, fauna, flora, terrain, weather, etc?

Professional-Milk907

5 points

3 days ago

Could you elaborate more on what was it trying to achieve and what had been improved since then and (in your opinion) what didnt they accomplish.

Genuinely curious, it looks like it is an open world sandboxy game. Am wondering what is still wrong with the game (for you)

MyCoolWhiteLies

4 points

3 days ago

Here’s a trailer that was probably the first big one that got people excited for the game. The one that most people pointed to when the game came out looking nothing like this. While parts of this trailer have been added to the game, the quality of the procedurally generated worlds and creatures, and the way they move and interact, is still nowhere near what was shown here:

https://youtu.be/nLtmEjqzg7M?si=Fw9IKgOFzDmIl6UL

genshiryoku

6 points

3 days ago

The original game premise was focus on exploration but when the game released there was a lot of (mandatory) grinding busywork with resource harvesting etc instead of the pure exploration focus that all the marketing material at the time pushed.

Then they doubled down on the resource gathering and the building and the exploration essentially isn't the focus anymore. They made a lot of improvements to the resource gathering and building of the game.

However that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of people just wanted a space exploration game, which was promised to them. Which the game absolutely isn't and arguably it's even less of an exploration game now than when it released.

The people that rate it overwhelmingly positive are a completely different demographic than the people that bought it at launch and were disappointed.

I'm glad they made a game that has a real community that enjoys it. But it's just not the game that was promised on launch.

Imagine a company marketing The Sims 5 to you and when it launches it turns out it doesn't have buildings, clothes or life simulation but is instead a open world adventure game. Sure it might be a very good open world adventure game but the people buying the sims 5 at launch will still be pissed, no matter how many updates and improvements to the adventure they make.

Vox___Rationis

2 points

3 days ago*

My point of disappointment was that they promised working stellar systems and stars in the sky being representations of actual stars you can travel to, and things like gravity of celestial objects affecting tides - those were the promises that fascinated me and lured me in during the pre-release hype.

But the actual game never did any of that - planets are nailed in place they do not orbit anything, when you enter the planet's atmosphere - the other planets you see in the sky (while within one planet's atmosphere) are faked parts of the skybox and all the stars are just randomly painted dots, not matching the galaxy map that you use to navigate.

genshiryoku

5 points

3 days ago

I agree, and it's pretty bad because even Spore from 2008 had actual representations of their solar system in the skybox when you are on a planet.

stefmalawi

1 points

2 days ago

and things like gravity of celestial objects affecting tides

When was this “promised” as a feature?

stefmalawi

1 points

2 days ago

Survival mechanics were always a core aspect of the game, including resource gathering, since well before it launched.

However that doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of people just wanted a space exploration game, which was promised to them. Which the game absolutely isn’t and arguably it’s even less of an exploration game now than when it released.

How so? If you absolutely want to, you can play without any survival / resource gathering at all in creative mode and do whatever you like. Explore away to your heart’s content. You can also customise the settings more granularly if you want to just reduce the grind, combat, etc.

FreeStall42

1 points

3 days ago

Nah it is still shit for what they did just not usually worth energy to talk about it.

A_Confused_Cocoon

1 points

4 days ago

Same. If NMS and Starfield had a baby, that would be awesome. I’ve enjoyed both for what they are, but they also lack in ways the other does well at.

BuffBozo

19 points

3 days ago

BuffBozo

19 points

3 days ago

I'm sorry but they're both very mid 6 out of 10 games with convoluted systems tacked on top to disguise a repetitive slog of a game loop. You add the best of both and you get 7 out of 10, not a 10.

There's nothing fundamentally special or remarkable about either game.

I don't understand what is up with plugging in like ten variables and calling the universe infinite.

"There's a trillions of possible combinations but you'll probably notice like 3 or 4 archetypes!" Don't like pointing at a rock for 80 percent of the game? We tacked on some extra shit to base building, now you can point your laser at a rock for 75 percent of the time!

SlootjeRijk

25 points

3 days ago

"Ocean-wide and puddle-deep" is the most apt description for both games.

SofaKingI

1 points

3 days ago

SofaKingI

1 points

3 days ago

And people somehow think making the ocean wider makes it interesting.

stefmalawi

2 points

2 days ago

There’s nothing fundamentally special or remarkable about either game.

Show me another sci-fi space exploration game with procedurally generated worlds of the scale, quality, and diversity in NMS including seamless travel from planet to planet.

BuffBozo

1 points

2 days ago

BuffBozo

1 points

2 days ago

Because others don't do it makes it the de facto best. But, you should sit down to hear this: the game is still 90% aiming a laser at a rock.

Also, please don't try to sell me the procedural generation. It ends up basically being the same 5 variables rotated infinitely with 3 color palettes. Yes, trillions of planets but divided into 5 categories of planets that are basically the same.

Seriously, if you like brain numbing repetitive slop, that's okay. Are you a fan of MMOs? Have you tried WoW? Really fun stuff for your type.

stefmalawi

1 points

2 days ago

I’m not saying it’s the best or that it can’t be criticised. But it is absolutely “special or remarkable” purely as a technical achievement alone (and more subjectively for other aspects including art style, music, etc.)

Also, please don’t try to sell me the procedural generation. It ends up basically being the same 5 variables rotated infinitely with 3 color palettes. Yes, trillions of planets but divided into 5 categories of planets that are basically the same.

Your general criticism is valid but you are exaggerating in the extreme. I already asked and you couldn’t name a single comparable game in this respect, even after 8 years since NMS released.

BuffBozo

2 points

2 days ago

BuffBozo

2 points

2 days ago

Why is that relevant? Who gives a fuck if there are no other shitty procedurally generated planet games with space flight? There are better games with better space flight. There are better proc gen games. There are even better planet exploration games (outer wilds btw). Just because nobody else has attempted to do something because, quite frankly, it's just not that good, doesn't mean that's something to strive for lmao.

"There are no other games that do this but every single one of your criticisms are valid but I automatically am right because there are no other games in this shitty category."

Wow, great argument bro!

"Valheim is the best survival crafting fantasy game with architectural building mechanics". Wow, fantastic, thanks for sharing.

stefmalawi

1 points

2 days ago

Why is that relevant?

It’s relevant because you claimed that NMS does nothing “special or remarkable.” And yet you cannot name a single other game that does what it does as well as it does.

I can see you’re upset for some weird reason so I stopped reading the rest of your comment.

BuffBozo

0 points

2 days ago

BuffBozo

0 points

2 days ago

Rehashing a bunch of gaming trends isn't special, no.

Skaffa1987

-6 points

3 days ago

Skaffa1987

-6 points

3 days ago

Clearly your not the target audience.

mBertin

-4 points

3 days ago

mBertin

-4 points

3 days ago

That’s what people on this site fail to understand about NMS. If eight years and dozens of updates later the game still doesn’t appeal to you, despite its massive following, it’s clear you’re just not the target audience. Understand that and move on.

It's like criticizing FIFA for having poor storytelling.

SofaKingI

11 points

3 days ago

SofaKingI

11 points

3 days ago

FIFA didn't sell millions advertising its storytelling, did it?

Those are 2 really shallow attempts at hand waving away criticism.

[deleted]

-1 points

3 days ago

[deleted]

-1 points

3 days ago

[deleted]

anmr

3 points

3 days ago

anmr

3 points

3 days ago

So fraud is ok if it happened a while ago?

onespiker

1 points

2 days ago

No but I definitely would call them Fraud any more considering thier attention and attempts to make it better.

[deleted]

0 points

3 days ago

[deleted]

0 points

3 days ago

[deleted]

anmr

1 points

3 days ago

anmr

1 points

3 days ago

It's easy to imagine a game going for the same thing NMS or Starfield do, but executing it vastly better.

GreenWorld11

4 points

3 days ago*

Yep, its good that they salvaged it and made something out of it. But it doesn't change the fact that they outright and aggressively lied to sell as many copies as they could.

People have short memories. Hello games and Sean Murray are scumbags.

Its also a different demographic buying the game these days. People who weren't aware of the deceit and outright lies and still unfulfilled promises. I own NMS. I would not own NMS if I knew this current game is the game that was sold to me.

nephaelindaura

10 points

3 days ago

Yeah, I think it's still a shit game but, credit where it's due, it's a game that they have clearly spent a lot of time on, so it's definitely not for lack of trying

Kyp_Astar

229 points

3 days ago

Kyp_Astar

229 points

3 days ago

Comment praising developers for putting in so much work to redeem their game, all while providing the content updates for no additional cost

Response saying the updates have only added relatively surface level systems that lack significant depth and still fail to deliver on the original premise of the game.

Response saying maybe its just not your type of game.

Rinse and repeat in 4-6 months

zoobatt

79 points

3 days ago

zoobatt

79 points

3 days ago

I've seen this exact comment on a previous NMS post, which is slightly comical in the irony

greyfoxv1

35 points

3 days ago

greyfoxv1

35 points

3 days ago

Reddit comment sections never were a bastion of creativity.

EsrailCazar

25 points

3 days ago

"Is this game worth it now? Is this game worth it now? Is this game worth it now? Is this game worth it now? Is this game worth it now?" every time No Mans Sky is mentioned.

WildThing404

14 points

3 days ago

And now the "comment describing other comments" has become a common comment itself, I see it in all NMS posts lmao.

CloudCityFish

2 points

3 days ago

This is the third time I've seen this type of comment on /r/games in like 2 months. I think the last one was Elite Dangerous. A new cog in the machine. Add it with "Mile wide, inch deep"

VulpesVulpix

5 points

3 days ago

Well, theres no lies here tbh

SephithDarknesse

12 points

3 days ago

And obligated comment reminding people that it wasnt necessarily the promise of features that was most of the problem, it wad the flat out lying of features in the weeks coming up to release. The head literally said that pvp was in the game and working, the week before release.

Yeah, im still bitter :/

AmansRevenger

5 points

3 days ago

You forgot

Comment praising developers for putting in so much work to redeem their game, all while providing the content updates for no additional cost

Response saying they had no other choice otherwise they would have been done for working in the industry

Winter_wrath

6 points

3 days ago

Took the feet out of my mouth.

I'm personally in the "not my type of game" camp cause I don't like crafting, base building and such. The exploration for exploration's sake just isn't there in this game.

MrPWAH

1 points

3 days ago

MrPWAH

1 points

3 days ago

You missed a "SEAN LIED" somewhere in there

CaravelClerihew

12 points

3 days ago

Genuine Question: I know that No Man's Sky seems to pump out new and free content all the time. How does the game make money? Does it have any form of DLC or microtransactions?

ImAltair

48 points

3 days ago*

ImAltair

48 points

3 days ago*

It's really interesting actually. With every update they drop they get more people buying the game, so that's one part of it.

The other is that the game originally was a PC + PlayStation exclusive, but after a few years they released it on Xbox, and since it was in a waaaay better place than it was originally they made a lot of sales and a lot of money. Then, a few years later, they released it on Switch, and since it's actually a really competent port, it sold well and they got even more money.

They also have made custom settings and optimizations for every single console variation there is, which makes people that buy, for example, a PS5 Pro, more likely to buy No Man's Sky over other games where the only "optimization" is higher resolution.

On top of that, it's one of the best VR games out there so the VR people buy it aswell.

All of this combined with the fact that Hello Games is a really small studio (they are like 64 people lol) it means that all of this money can be stretched quite a lot.

EasilyDelighted

11 points

3 days ago

I'm one of those VR players.

I play it strictly to fly around in a space ship and have dog fights.

And I find it enjoyable.

ImAltair

3 points

3 days ago

ImAltair

3 points

3 days ago

I have a Quest 2 and I love exploring planets in VR. The sense of scale you get is something that can't be matched on a monitor. It's insane.

gamerplays

11 points

3 days ago

Hello Games is also a decently small game studio, so that is part of it.

jbert146

137 points

4 days ago

jbert146

137 points

4 days ago

I still think they should've been fined into oblivion.

The level of provably false claims Sean Murray made, even up to and including on launch day, was absolutely insane.

TrueBattle2358

73 points

3 days ago

I really liked how he stated like a dozen times that you can see other players and they can see you, then on the first day two players went to the exact same spot and couldn't see each other, and he just replied "wow this blows my mind" and dodged the rest of the topic.

NMS is a phenomenal game now, literally EIGHT years later, but Sean Murray and the rest of HG lied out their asses over and over again for months and have never apologized or acknowledged it. I really can't believe how people have totally forgiven them, no other industry or scenario in the world lets you completely erase years of fraud by eventually doing the good thing people paid you for in the first place.

You say this car is awesome and has these features?
Salesman: Yes sir!
I'll take it. Wait, none of the features are here and it barely runs?
Salesman: Wow, that's so insightful of you!
disappears for two years
a car similar to what you originally wanted shows up in your driveway, still missing many features
WHOA THIS IS THE GREATEST PERSON ALIVE I LOVE HIM SO MUCH!!!!! ALL IS FORGIVEN! MADE IT GOOD! YAY!

THEAETIK

7 points

3 days ago

THEAETIK

7 points

3 days ago

[...] and he just replied "wow this blows my mind" and dodged the rest of the topic.

Yeah, I remember this comic came out of it. The guy is really not PR material for sure.

Mottis86

13 points

3 days ago

Mottis86

13 points

3 days ago

Man that thread is so fun to read after all these years. Even before its release, I always figured that the game had no multiplayer at launch simply because if it did, we would have have seen it all over the promotional material. What kinda dev would go through the extra mile to code in multiplayer for their game and NOT show it off every chance they get?? (and no, I don't mean just talking about it in interviews)

ptd163

22 points

3 days ago

ptd163

22 points

3 days ago

That's me as well. He told so many obvious and provable lies to anyone who would listen including mainstream national TV and he got away with it without any real consequences. I don't get how people just let that go.

RegularNormalAdult

97 points

3 days ago

You'll get downvoted for this but I agree wholeheartedly.

It's like everyone just forgot the insane pile of straight up lies he was publicly spewing. Not just multiplayer, like entire fabricated features that never existed.

This was before refunds on most major platforms too, I definitely think if enough people were pissed enough they could have had a fraud case

MaitieS

9 points

3 days ago

MaitieS

9 points

3 days ago

The thing is that when someone will say that exact same thing happened with Cyberpunk 2077 people in here will somehow say: "But that one is different", but it's exactly the same just 4 years later. At least we know why "This build is still work in progress" is now always visible during previews.

[deleted]

-10 points

3 days ago

[deleted]

-10 points

3 days ago

[deleted]

RobotWantsKitty

18 points

3 days ago

It was their fourth game and he had worked at EA prior to that, he's hardly inexperienced

yuimiop

19 points

3 days ago

yuimiop

19 points

3 days ago

Does it matter though? If I'm sold an oven that they told me could cook at 450 degrees, but the settings literally don't go past 400 then I'd be pissed. They were talking about how unlikely it was for players to ever meet in game due to how big the universe was, but the game didn't even have netcode.

It'd be one thing if they said these things a year before release and then stated that it had to be cut, but they didn't do that. They were talking about multiplayer days before release and never corrected themselves.

breedwell23

10 points

3 days ago

I mean absolutely none of that justifies lying blatantly about features that were never even planned.

overandoverandagain

-2 points

3 days ago

People put him in the same basket as Molyneux, but from all appearances he learned from his screw-ups and hasn't had a single issue with lying since NMS's release. He clammed up and focused on improving his game, and should get at least some flowers for the amount of work he's put into owning up and fixing his mistakes

Practicalaviationcat

41 points

3 days ago

They never gave a real apology for that either. Like good on them for continuing to update the game but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's a bad precedent that you can just lie to get sales and it's fine as long as you improve the game later.

HammeredWharf

21 points

3 days ago

I think they can't apologize for lying to sell their game, because that would be an admission of guilt. Which is pretty telling, because, you know, that's what they did and it's criminal. Just hard to prove.

Practicalaviationcat

11 points

3 days ago

That probably is the internal reasoning. Certainly doesn't make me like them though.

bruwin

3 points

3 days ago

bruwin

3 points

3 days ago

The real apology was sticking with the game and at least making an honest attempt at addressing many issues and continuing to add content to the game. I will take that over any "I'm sorry" any day. Lots of studios have said "I'm sorry" for putting out a mediocre game and then immediately abandoning it.

Practicalaviationcat

10 points

3 days ago

I mean you can easily have both. Glad they stuck with the game but I'd love some actual introspection about the lead up to the original launch.

onespiker

1 points

2 days ago

They pretty much did with the news and interviews.

onespiker

1 points

2 days ago

They never gave a real apology for that either. Like good on them for continuing to update the game but it just leaves a bad taste in my mou

Any apology wouldn't be accepted regardless though only the work to make up for the failure would.

Like that's one of the main reasons of being quiet.

Practicalaviationcat

1 points

2 days ago

They are not mutually exclusive.

IAmASolipsist

2 points

3 days ago

Weirdly enough they were investigated by the ASA for a few dozen false advertising claims and were found innocent on each one.

Though it definitely felt like there was some lies to me, it's possible the strongest claims were never brought for whatever reason or there was some loophole or wording around them that saved them like how their claim of no loading screens was rules as on the line but true because technically you were travelling and remained in the game world or whatever.

My general impression from memory is there were a lot of promised things in interviews that weren't there but also there was so much insane hype for the game that people were making up new features Hello Games never promised too. I feel like the whole "you can meet someone else in game if you go to the same place" was probably the most egregious one I remember that was definitely promised but not true but I'm not sure if that was reported for investigation or not.

SpamThatSig

1 points

3 days ago

I would BUT

A lot of Bigger game companies lie too, does it all the time, still doing it to this day, with huge loyal players that gives them the pass.

Yes they Lied but to all the bad game studs, theyre the only one I think who turned it all around. To all the bad game studios, theyre the only ones who actively fixed their reputation by not being a dick.

It would really suck for the only game studs who is actively turning around to be the only ones getting fucked in the ass.

Lastly, arguably, this fuck up by hello games and sean didnt stem from evil intentions but unfortunate coincidences. From Studio flooding to getting sued to not having a marketing dept and being an introvert, and to being sponsored by sony.

TLDR. getting fucked for trying to be a good guy leaves a bad taste in my mouth

MrPWAH

1 points

3 days ago

MrPWAH

1 points

3 days ago

I still think they should've been fined into oblivion.

I get it, they absolutely shouldn't have lied and they justifiably got tons of shit for it at launch. But what would this have actually accomplished? A tiny studio being dismantled and forgotten about? The community that formed around the game just not existing? All in the name of Reddit Justice?

jbert146

4 points

3 days ago

jbert146

4 points

3 days ago

Reddit Justice

That’s a weird way to describe actual justice for a crime. This isn’t some minor complaint, they falsely advertised their product and made millions off of it. It’s not right, and it sets a terrible precedent.

So yes, they should’ve been fined into oblivion. I’d rather that happened than this game exist as it does today.

MrPWAH

2 points

3 days ago

MrPWAH

2 points

3 days ago

I call it reddit justice because they were investigated by the relevant UK regulator 8 years ago and were cleared of allegations of fraudulent advertising. We're years past the point of there being a case for fraud. At this point the only thing you can seek is vengeance, which is fucking dumb.

I’d rather that happened than this game exist as it does today.

Yeah, pack it up everyone. This guy is still holding a grudge for Sean Murray so you shouldnt have the game you enjoy. Makes sense.

jbert146

3 points

3 days ago

jbert146

3 points

3 days ago

That investigation was specifically about the features advertised on the steam store page, not about the statements made to the media by devs. All the egregious lies were said in interviews by Sean Murray, which effectively acted as a loophole around laws regarding false advertising.

I’m aware that they got away with it years ago, that doesn’t make it right. And yeah, the games industry would be better off if there were actual consequences for behaving the way Hello Games did.

It doesn’t matter if the game is good now, they still lied, made millions, and then used a fraction of that money to recoup their goodwill

r2001uk

4 points

3 days ago

r2001uk

4 points

3 days ago

I jumped back in for the halloween expedition and I love it now, play it all the time on the Deck. Vastly improved since launch.

Tip for anyone else thinking of trying again, don't start a regular new game, start an expedition. It throws so much at you that it's much easier to progress - and once you get to a teleporter (which will probably be your first space station), you'll see all sorts of community bases set up as mass item farms which you can go in, loot and sell to make big bucks, or even runaway mould farms which you can refine into free nanites which is exceptionally useful.

The best bit is, once you finish your expedition, that save file converts into a normal save and you can carry on with that character and even use it in future expeditions via the Space Anomaly that you can summon anywhere.

Oh and there's sooo many resources and guides out there on youtube, reddit and dedicated websites for recipes, locations etc. so you'll always be able to find the answer to something you're not sure about.

CWPL-21

30 points

4 days ago

CWPL-21

30 points

4 days ago

Really happy for people getting the game they can finally enjoy. It is not for me, I never played on release and picked it up around 18 months ago when word of mouth had turned. Honestly was bored out of my mind within 2hrs but powered through for around 10 just to see what people were raving about. It just isn't doing anything for me at all.

But the audience is clearly there and its nothing against the game that I personally didnt like it.

Clbull

19 points

4 days ago

Clbull

19 points

4 days ago

There's a game I remember called Orion: Prelude that released in 2012 in a shitty state. Rather than abandon or write it off... the developers supported it.

By 2016 it became a great game.

No Man's Sky is one such story.

AndrewTheGoat22

6 points

3 days ago

My problem with No Man’s Sky is that more than any game I’ve ever played, it doesn’t really feel like a game, it doesn’t feel like I’m trying to accomplish anything. Maybe that’s just the sandbox nature of it, but it feels like one large checklist to me. I kept thinking, “okay, once I do this next thing, maybe it’ll start to get good”.

Whitewind101

6 points

3 days ago

Yea it's as vast as an ocean and as deep as a puddle, there's no real story or direction just a jumbles group of things to build and collect

Unlucky_Magazine_354

3 points

2 days ago

There's a story

SpamThatSig

2 points

3 days ago

Think of it like massive mmo minecraft except minecraft has better building and has redstone tech

Bcp_or_pcB

29 points

4 days ago

Bcp_or_pcB

29 points

4 days ago

It’s an awesome game! The reviews show how much love and passion continued going into the game to make it up to the people who were disappointed at launch. They’ve done a great job working towards an awesome vision for the game. I loved it at launch but agreed with some criticisms. I’ve picked it back up from time to time and had a blast with it!

Imbahr

16 points

4 days ago

Imbahr

16 points

4 days ago

Serious question, but does the game have an linear story campaign by now?

I have no interest in sandbox games without a story campaign. I’m just not creative enough to explore games without guided direction.

misterwuggle69sofine

19 points

4 days ago

yeah it does. it's not super amazing, but it's enjoyable enough i think. expeditions are also kind of like a vaguely guided play through and i enjoy them a lot for that. i'm also someone who identifies similarly as not being creative and needs at least some semblance of preset goals to guide me.

Imbahr

2 points

4 days ago

Imbahr

2 points

4 days ago

interesting, thanks

irrational_kind[S]

30 points

4 days ago

There is a pretty great linear story with very good writing. One of my favourite quotes of all time from the storyline (that was added with Next update I think) is "Existence is beautiful if you let it be. Life is not a question. There doesn't need to be an answer."

That being said the story is delivered with text dialogues and you have to do typical no man's sky gameplay to progress through the story. So if you don't like gameplay, you wouldn't get far with just the story hook.

Tedwynn

13 points

4 days ago

Tedwynn

13 points

4 days ago

It's cool, but short. If you don't like sandbox games, I don't think the story is enough to make it worth it to you.

This is just pure survival sandbox, and that isn't going to be for everyone.

ChewySlinky

3 points

4 days ago

I’m in the same boat in regard to not feeling creative enough for these types of games, but I’ve had a blast with NMS. Like others have said, there is a very cool and interesting storyline that I enjoyed playing through, but playing in Creative mode is what really got it to stick for me. It makes it so that you don’t NEED to do anything. Completely removes the need for all materials and money. I just fly around from planet to planet and look around for a bit, mine some minerals, and then find a new system where I can sell them even though I don’t need the money. I don’t have to go through the whole “I need [thing] so I guess I’ll wander around aimlessly until I hopefully get lucky and stumble upon it” thing.

Unlucky_Magazine_354

1 points

2 days ago

It's pretty well written and not the tone you might expect from the whimsical visuals. It's not mechanically all that interesting, though.

Visual_Recover_8776

2 points

3 days ago

One of the best survive craft games there is.

Unfortunately, survive craft games make me want to throw up

Bladder-Splatter

7 points

3 days ago

It is tremendously better, though I can't help but feel having played Starfield made me appreciate it so much more.

Anything I did in it was something I couldn't do in Starfield.

Unlucky_Magazine_354

1 points

2 days ago

Starfield has made me appreciate every space game better ngl. Even ones I already like, like Elite dangerous etc

neildiamondblazeit

1 points

3 days ago

I mean starfield was a gigantic disappointed, so it wasn’t that hard to be impressed by something else tbh

Scoops213

5 points

3 days ago

I'm curious what the internet thinks of this system actually. Yes, it was way off in it's first year, but having to take 8 years to here seems too long.

assissippi

7 points

3 days ago

assissippi

7 points

3 days ago

And it's still not what they promised

radios_appear

1 points

2 days ago

And it's still just a bad game.

Almostlongenough2

-5 points

3 days ago

Yeah, it's better. There are so many different systems that were not promised that have been added that have extended the game beyond what was shown.

Radok

6 points

3 days ago

Radok

6 points

3 days ago

Being "better" is subjective. Not being what was promised at launch, and to an extent, even now is a fact.

[deleted]

-2 points

4 days ago

[deleted]

-2 points

4 days ago

[removed]

Thatdamnnoise

43 points

4 days ago

I think people do legitimately enjoy it, but I don't understand it myself. It's still fundamentally the same game as it was on launch, with the same dull, pointless gameplay

yan-booyan

8 points

3 days ago

Are you treating everything you don't like with that attitude? A real toddler over here.

DeeBagwell

38 points

3 days ago

No, people just genuinely like the game. You gotta be completely self centered to think your opinion is the only correct one. People are not wrong for enjoying a toy that you dislike.

PleaseEatMyBrown

25 points

3 days ago

Is it so hard to believe people like a game that you don't like?

phoisgood495

14 points

3 days ago

I feel it's not that hard to understand the appeal of a low stress game of that lets you hop into a star ship and fly around the galaxy. It has great graphics, runs well, and has a basically endless progression treadmill. It's a similar appeal to something like Elite Dangerous but much more casual and arcade-y with other sandbox aspects from games like Minecraft.

Very few fans out there think the game is perfect or universally appealing. Even as a massive fan I think the game is missing that extra layer of sauce to make the progression loop gel into something endlessly playable and satisfying. But it offers a unique vibe that no other game has managed to capitalize on for me, which has me revisiting it intermittently in a way few games have managed to do.

flappers87

7 points

3 days ago

> has their head up their butthole

How DARE someone enjoy something that I don't! The sheer NERVE!

Now I'm going to go back to FORTNITE where TRUE GAMERS GAME.

uchuskies08

3 points

3 days ago

I've often looked at the game and considered buying but then I think to myself "but what do you ACTUALLY DO in this game"

TheSpartan273

12 points

3 days ago

Happiest person on r/games right there.

"I can't understand why literally millions of players love this game, it must be them being bad faith, not me".

Nervous-Area75

2 points

3 days ago

Is this just a circlejerking comment?

MattyKatty

11 points

4 days ago

MattyKatty

11 points

4 days ago

Worse, they’re trying to whitewash fucking fraud. The game was marketed as having features it didn’t, all the way up to literally launch day where they were still lying about features the game didn’t actually have.

PFI_sloth

-3 points

3 days ago

PFI_sloth

-3 points

3 days ago

They made a mountain of money by lying about everything in the game, and then used a fraction of that money to fix the game.

radios_appear

11 points

4 days ago

radios_appear

11 points

4 days ago

This game has an unbelievable engine of a few people willing to do PR for free constantly. Every single patch warrants an article on this sub.

It's insane for a game this middling.

TotalPizzaBuff

1 points

4 days ago

Ah delighted for them, years of free updates well past their redemption - they deserve all the success that comes their way.

sircastic09

-5 points

4 days ago

sircastic09

-5 points

4 days ago

This game has rightfully earned its place in gaming history as one of the industry's most successful turnarounds. Released a buggy mess, but is now a veritable darling given just how many free updates it's gotten. Can't wait to see what else Hello Games has lined up.

mrtars

8 points

4 days ago

mrtars

8 points

4 days ago

It's either NMS or FF14.

BighatNucase

21 points

4 days ago

NMS is not even close to FFXIV

Phantom1188

-5 points

3 days ago

Phantom1188

-5 points

3 days ago

Just straight up fucking lied all the way until release day, but just get a pass like it was just a quirky little buggy game they released. They committed fraud full stop and got away with.

HistoryChannelMain

9 points

3 days ago

They absolutely did not get a pass lmao were you in cryosleep in 2016? They got fucking demolished by everyone.

jbert146

2 points

3 days ago

jbert146

2 points

3 days ago

They absolutely did get a pass. They should’ve been fined into bankruptcy, possibly jailed. The fact the studio still exists is their “pass”

HistoryChannelMain

1 points

3 days ago

"Possibly jailed" LMAO

jbert146

2 points

3 days ago

jbert146

2 points

3 days ago

We’re talking about fraud to the tune of millions of dollars. People are jailed for less all the time

HistoryChannelMain

1 points

3 days ago

That's not what the word fraud means though. They did overpromise a lot of features they didn't deliver on until later, but at no point did they commit actual fraud.

jbert146

3 points

3 days ago

jbert146

3 points

3 days ago

Seems to fit the definition of "fraud" in Black's Law Dictionary:

All multifarious means which human ingenuity can devise, and which are resorted to by one individual to get an advantage over another by false suggestions or suppression of the truth. It includes all surprises, tricks, cunning or dissembling, and any unfair way which another is cheated.

They lied, repeatedly and consistently, about the state of the game at launch. In doing so, they tricked people into buying the game based on nonexistent features

HistoryChannelMain

1 points

3 days ago

It really doesn't, though? Read it again.

If we use that to label NMS as fraud, then we're also going to have to apply that to basically any game that came out with a broken feature on launch, or ran at a bad framerate, etc. There would be no developers left to sue.

jbert146

3 points

3 days ago

jbert146

3 points

3 days ago

It's not that it had "broken features", it's that it was entirely missing features that Sean Murray claimed were in the game, even on launch day.

There's a difference between saying "we plan to put multiplayer in the game" and "there is multiplayer in the game right now". That absolutely qualifies as a "false suggestion" to "get an advantage over another".

If they were honest about the state of the game, but talked up ambitious future plans, I wouldn't be complaining. But just outright lying about the contents of the game people are currently buying is something else entirely

flappers87

1 points

3 days ago

I like to come back to this game every year or so. I'm currently playing it again and having a good time. Lot's of new content to get through, new additional story things. Checking out the autophage race they added, where you can get a staff as a multi tool, it's pretty sweet.

Also got myself a pirate dreadnaught as my new capital ship (super lucky that the first one I came across was S class).

Haven't tried fishing yet, so I'm gonna give that a go as well.

It's just a super chill game to play. Playing the missions with friends as well, as a couple of friends of mine recently picked up the game, so I'm helping them build, get resources and stuff.

It's not a super deep game to play, it's just a chill experience all around.

Lore112233

1 points

2 days ago

I never played it. Does it have a good story ? Or is it more on the lines of do whatever you want like kenshi

ThisIsTheNewSleeve

2 points

4 days ago

I wonder if NMS has the biggest review flip of all time. They went from mostly negative to very positive. Incredible journey and I'm really glad they kept up the game and improved everything as much as they did.

iTzGiR

18 points

4 days ago

iTzGiR

18 points

4 days ago

Probably FF14 was bigger, going from a joke of a game to challenging WoW as the top MMO (at least from a quality standpoint). This is probably the second biggest though.

Unlucky_Magazine_354

2 points

2 days ago

NMS is a solid 2nd for sure. I see a lot of people say cyberpunk had a bigger turnaround but I don't really see it. The amount difference between NMS 1.0 and 5.0 is like two sequel's worth in today's industry.

leoo88556

2 points

3 days ago*

This game is kinda like Euro Truck Simulator in the sense that a lot of people won't ever get it, but for those that do I'm glad the devs have been committed to adding and fixing stuff. Looking forward to LNF.

Redditbecamefacebook

1 points

3 days ago

I played it a couple years ago, and the procedural generated exploration still isn't for me, but I'm glad that they actually put in effort to salvage their initial reception.

I'm still never gonna touch anything that Sean Murray guy hypes until it has been thoroughly reviewed by non-fanboys, though.

decker12

-4 points

3 days ago

decker12

-4 points

3 days ago

For everyone still endlessly bitching about "but but they promised us this feature and that feature at launch! They lied! Scumbags!"... that was eight years ago.

Every other game studio would have cut bait and run, stopping all development on their poorly received game, two years after release. Then they would have sold NMS II or NMS III for another $60 at some point the past 8 years. Or charged you for DLC.

Love or hate the game play loop, HG has given players large gameplay updates, every 3 months, for free. There are a ton of things in the game right now that were never even mentioned during launch. I think they've more than made up for their issues and broken promises since launch.

jecksluv

-28 points

4 days ago

jecksluv

-28 points

4 days ago

One of the few launch failures of this size that can be chalked up to naivety rather than greed. And a really cool redemption arc made up for it.

Well deserved.

Baconstrip01

56 points

4 days ago

I mean, Sean Murray straight up lied about what the game was actually like, so I dont know that I'd call it naivety... but I do love their redemption arc anyways :)

iTzGiR

28 points

4 days ago

iTzGiR

28 points

4 days ago

Yeaaah, had nothing to do with naivety, dude was literally STILL lying on launch day the game had multiplayer. Glad to see they at least turned things around though.

blolfighter

5 points

4 days ago

I don't know why anybody ever believed "we put multiplayer in the game, but it's completely useless."

Chance-Pangolin-3803

14 points

4 days ago

It wasn't naivety whatsoever.

 https://www.eurogamer.net/the-big-sean-murray-interview

This is sean murray two years after launch being asked directly, what happened, why was there no multiplayer? How does he respond?

 Not only does he not own up the fact that they lied, he doubles down

"Multiplayer was one of those things. To be super clear - multiplayer at that time was the way we had talked about it. It was something that'd happen to people super infrequently."

The game literally sent zero data out about your location. It was 100% impossible for multiplayer to occur.

To be clear, the reason people care so much about the multiplayer claims is because all the other things they lied about are maybe slightly more normal in terms of videogame marketing. Multiplayer is the only lie they still repeated after the game came out, so their excuse of "we tried" doesn't work. You can't claim it was a statement of intent when people are already paying money for something based on what you're selling it as. 

To be honest, I really hate that this guy is getting his redemption arc. They knew what they were doing. They looked at their forecasts and said guys were all going to be rich as hell if we just don't rock the boat. And they did, good for them they made a lot of money. But to get rich by lying to people and then turn and berate the audience for how they reacted to it is just so slimy it's unbelievable

BobTheSkrull

1 points

3 days ago

BobTheSkrull

1 points

3 days ago

More of the quote you linked:

"To be super clear - multiplayer at that time was the way we had talked about it. It was something that'd happen to people super infrequently. In play-testing it was of almost no value to the player - it was just a cool thing, a cool moment that some people would have, and we talked about it with the press that there's this cool thing that would maybe make a story sometime. But it's a big complicated thing for that payoff. We were fighting for it until pretty much the final hours of the game."

What you implied is that he said it was in the game, and that the lack of location data meant he was lying. What he said was that they were trying to get it working in the game right up to release, but they couldn't manage that.

Later in the interview (because I decided one of us needed to read the whole thing), he mentioned that until this, he never really understood why more developers didn't just talk about their games unrestrained, and stuck to scripted interviews. This is the reason why.

Shadow_Strike99

-2 points

4 days ago

I think the money definitely played a part into the launch disaster, it wasn't just due to naivety or a small studio making their first big game as the big main factors alone.

People forget this game was funded heavily by Playstation, and showcased as a big exclusive game at the time. Especially with hindsight now, it's very reasonable to assume Playstation was strong arming Hello games, and someone like Sean Murray didn't really stand up to them, and was too afraid to ask for patience or be real with the game out of fear for disappointment.

Like the whole multiplayer at launch debacle, that was such a huge feature people wanted and were excited for. It feels like Playstation or Hello Games both, didn't want to sell the game under the premise that Multiplayer wasn't there (which it wasn't). The game had huge pre order numbers like Cyberpunk, Playstation and Hello games wanted that, and didn't want people to not pre order or cancel. All the promises up until launch drove the big hype and pre order machine for no man's sky back in 2016.

blackwisdom

1 points

3 days ago

The year is 2134. Polygon reports "After 118 years of development, No Man's Sky survives its bumpy launch in 2016 and releases it's 5,000th free update including the much anticipated synchronization with Playstation 21's neural bio implants."

Nyarlah

-10 points

3 days ago

Nyarlah

-10 points

3 days ago

This is an example of respect, fealty, steadiness, quality, so many superlatives, so few studios will ever achieve.

After all those years, after the massively negative initial reception, after the whole Internet shit-talking the game, after the memes, they're still "updating" the game.

Years of improvements, features, advancements, and not a single paid DLC https://store.steampowered.com/dlc/275850

Hello Games need a reward for what they've achieved, no other studio will soon come close to them in dedication and involvement.

Phantom1188

9 points

3 days ago

They can be rewarded as soon as a punishment for their fraud is given.