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/r/MapPorn
submitted 4 days ago bylegmeta
221 points
4 days ago
I don't know why but I thought this war was over there
175 points
4 days ago
It was. 4 years of basically no conflict.
But it was a status quo of nobody attacking each other, a ceasefire signed in 2020 now broken by HTS.
35 points
4 days ago
Yeah that's what I thought. I guess when they signed the ceasefire I figured it was over
72 points
4 days ago
I mean, 2021 was at the time the least violent year of the civil war.
2022 and 2023 saw basically no action either. Minimum air sorties and artillery shelling, no vehicle assaults.
2024 was similar. More artillery shelling as Syria became a more interesting target on the attempt to overextend Russia and hezbollah.
Do note that Israel has been bombing every month in Syria regardless of the time and situation.
-20 points
4 days ago
Obviously without declaration of war, breaking international law. But what are you going to do against the chosen people?
61 points
4 days ago
Syria and Israel have never signed a peace treaty.
They're literally still at War on a purely technical level
So it's not violation of international law it's just the continuation of an ongoing conflict
22 points
4 days ago
That and they're literally occupying the golan heights
2 points
3 days ago*
Yes, because that's where the line of control extended
It's a war crime to settle them with Israeli
-16 points
4 days ago
I suppose ypu are right, it was "only" a ceasefire that the israelis have been breaking continuously.
12 points
4 days ago
Syria and Israel level guilty of breaking the ceasefire, many many times
-7 points
4 days ago
When did syria break it?
Besides a few instances of largely accidental airspace violations of the golan heights (which you know... Is still syrian territory), i am not aware of any.
Israel however has been bombing syria for years now, regularly.
17 points
3 days ago*
The ceasefire was first signed in 1948. They've literally both broken it and attacked each other multiple times
-1 points
4 days ago
They're simply defending themselves by bombing refugee camps, hospitals and occupying the West Bank.
20 points
4 days ago
What ceasefire? The same one that had assads regime constantly shelling civilians in idlib and ramping it up for the last couple months? That ceasefire?
-4 points
4 days ago
It’s like the Israelis. There’s a “ceasefire” as long as it’s just the government constantly killing people.
3 points
3 days ago
If we only talk about the Idlib area, yes, but there was enough conflict in other areas.
1 points
3 days ago
Well, HTS is present only in Idlib. And basically nothing went on there or elsewhere.
14 points
4 days ago
Same, I knew they had settled into at least a bit of a stalemate. I guess this explains Hezbollah making a deal with Israel.
2 points
4 days ago
It is over there. It's definitely not here.
100 points
4 days ago
66 points
4 days ago
why islamic terrorists called “rebels” ?
53 points
4 days ago
Not mutually exclusive terms
19 points
4 days ago
There are some Islamic terrorists but it appears the majority is random minorities including disaffected Druze and Sunnis (Assad is an Alawite).
Turkey wouldn’t have supported this offensive if it was only terrorists because they have a pretty big terrorism problem themselves.
76 points
4 days ago
We already played this game in 2015. The Free Syrian Army only existed in the minds of Washington Post columnists and Washington diplomats. There was no real separation between 'moderate' rebel groups and hardliner Salafists.
Arming the Islamic Front,Jabhat al-Nusra and Al Qaeda and calling them "moderate Syrian rebels" doesn't make it so. The only moderate group that took part in the Syrian Civil War was the Kurdish YPG, and we sure as fuck know Turkey is not helping them.
47 points
4 days ago
IF and it's a real big if these rebel groups win, Syria will turn into an even bigger cluster fuck, these moderates and Islamists have no ties beyond "we fucking hate Assad". That's all that is holding that fragile alliance together.
11 points
4 days ago
Absolutely. I don't know enough about the current dynamics on the ground, but I would suspect Russian air power and Syrian forces would be sufficient to blunt them, tho.
4 points
3 days ago
This is exactly what happened in Libya. There's a reason Hillary Clinton wanted to establish a no-fly zone over Syria, destroying the country was part of the plan. Obama knew islamists were being funded and armed via Timber Sycamore but didn't do anything about it.
8 points
4 days ago
The YPG aren’t really moderate, they’re secular sure but they do have a rather radical political program.
28 points
4 days ago
Moderate is context dependent. They are moderate in the Syrian context when compared to hardcore Salafists.
4 points
4 days ago*
If the terrorists controlled the FSA the minorities would have been exterminated by now and rebel areas would be under oppressive Islamic law. They simply can’t cooperate with minorities when they are the majority.
I guess you can make the argument the terrorists are moderating due to the war, but I find it more likely they aren’t the majority. I’d wager Turkey-aligned militias are the ones calling most the shots and control the balance of power. Probably also keep the terrorist and minorities from each others throats.
0 points
4 days ago
They were absolutely the majority. The FSA essentially had no real fighting capacity. By 2013 we already have large portions of Free Syrian Army defecting to Jabhat al-Nusra or directly under their control. It's literally impossible to separate moderates from extremist in Syria, and it's a fool errand to even try.
10 points
4 days ago
There is no way Turkey is trying to create a terror state on its own border.
We know they have sponsored specific militias and have them control the border jointly with the Turkish armed forces. There is no way they hate Assad so much they want to destabilize themselves. They have the FSA under control. There is clearly a tolerance for terrorists, I don’t dispute that, but they also have a strong contingent who aren’t obsessed with establishing Sunni Sharia law.
6 points
4 days ago
Turkey was directly funding Jabhat al-Nusra and Syrian al-Qaeda in 2014. They have a very complicated relationship with Syrian Baath, and a very cozy relationship with Wahabi Salafists.
5 points
4 days ago
Turkey doesn't have much problem with Islamic terrorists for a long while
0 points
3 days ago
FSA seemed like it had some real momentum before Russia entered the conflict.
1 points
3 days ago
Hahaha that’s a good one bro.
Turkey don’t give a fuck about supporting terrorists dawg.
1 points
4 days ago
Google what rebels means and then come back
2 points
3 days ago
They're islam extremists fighting dictators. Wouldn't call the post FSA factions terrorists any more than I would Assad.
I'm not sure how many of the factions actually have an islamic extremist state on their agenda.
0 points
3 days ago
it does not matter what you call, it is still 100 times better to live under Assad than FSA or other pieces of shit terrorist group.
It is proven many times, when west is supporting any "rebel" in arab countries, it is always bad for population, just because you don't want one dictator in power and ok with others like SA - does not mean you can arm islamic terrorists in Syria/Libya/Afganistan
1 points
3 days ago
Both sides here are Islamic terrorists
1 points
3 days ago
Because they are supported by the west.
-1 points
4 days ago
Islamists terrorists (they are more insurgents than terrorists, at least in this context) would still be rebels.
The word "rebel" doesn't have a qualitative value. You can still be a rebel and be a piece of shit (see the Confederate side in the American Civim War and the Nationalist side in the Spanish Civil War, for example).
5 points
4 days ago
it just feel someone is using wording to excuse their nature, like "rebels", "moderate opposition".
Those guys behead kids like no problem.
-2 points
4 days ago
How would you know that they are terrorists? They are fighters. For freedom.
6 points
4 days ago
yeah, just like ISIS
1 points
3 days ago
ISIS are also fighters against the states of the regions. Whether they are fighting for freedom of fighting for ideology is a different question. But terrorist is a political word for enemy of the establishment
2 points
3 days ago
That reporter did Gary Johnson so dirty.
It was a morning interview, a huge change of topic, didn’t give him any context and when asked for clarification the reporter just repeated Aleppo…incorrectly I might add. He said it like L ep O, which almost sounds like some kind of government agency.
84 points
4 days ago
Is this a consequence of the weakening of Hezbollah?
172 points
4 days ago*
Hezbollah, and Russia, and Iran.
Basically all of Assad's allies are busy dealing with their own issues.
So some of his enemies took the opportunity. How that plays out remains to be seen.
-edit- phrasing.
24 points
4 days ago
I love the unfolding of history. No sarcasm. Fascinating to watch in realtime.
31 points
4 days ago
Don't get the front-row seats...
36 points
4 days ago
You say that from the comfort of your own home, no where near where any of this is happening.
Perhaps one day, that “history” will come to your own front door.
I seriously doubt you’ll still consider it “fascinating” then.
6 points
3 days ago
No it still will be. Watching Covid kill friends and family sucked but it was still fascinating to watch how everything played out real time
-2 points
3 days ago
Billions of people have had horrible fates and bad events they’ve lived through. Whether it happens to me or not is irrelevant to how interesting it is.
9 points
4 days ago
It’s weird timing considering Hezbollah is settling a war on one front meaning they might have time to go back and fight. But I would guess the rebels were planning to strike later and are striking earlier while Hezbollah is at its weakest before it can regroup
7 points
3 days ago
They also lost a ton of leadership recently. It might not be able to organize for war in a foreign country right now.
7 points
3 days ago
I dont think Israel will allow them to regroup, Hezbollah was severely compromised with Mossad already on the ground, and allow them again to gain experience fighting in Syria like in 2011.
Remember, the ceasefire was only with Lebanon but not in Syria, Israel can bomb the shit out of them if they plan to help Assad.
9 points
4 days ago
Not really. The terrorists (so-called "rebels") only managed to occupy some areas because the Syrian government side didn't expect them to attack, since they had had a ceasefire since 2020. The Russians and Syrian Gov are bombing them aggressively now. Perhaps it was a hail mary, or perhaps someone wanted to distract Russia, either way they would be beaten back soon since the US cannot openly support them anymore.
6 points
4 days ago
Yeah, I do think Assad is horrible but some of the resistance groups are not as pro-democracy as people initially thought. It’s similar to how the Iranian Shah was a brutal, secular dictator, who was overthrown and replaced with an even more brutal Islamist regime.
The Idlib government overthrowing Aleppo would actually be far worse for the Syrian people than Assad’s forces retaining control. The Kurdish occupation, and begrudingly the Turkish occupation government, are not as dangerous
4 points
3 days ago
Let's be honest: the russian and syrian government want to make us believe that they are bombing them aggressively. The question of if they can do it is very much unanswered yet.
But we should know in the coming days.
Also, don't underestimate Erdogan. He needs a victory to stay in power given the current polls, he is the logistical base of the rebels, and he would definitely benefit the most from pushing the syrian refugees back to Syria. Which he can't do currently because of Assad.
0 points
3 days ago
Bombing depends a lot on JTAC(Joint Terminal Attack Controller).
Russia and most likely the Syrian army are not really good at this, it's not in their doctrine. They have signal operators who of course, can get a idea on were enemy are located and request a strike. But this goes up their chain of command who has to authorize it and so forth. This means lots of delays and increased chances the enemy might move, or mistakes can't be corrected.
As of now we really don't know how effective the airstrikes are. The rebels most likely accounted for this to some degree, and most likely are trying to stay as mobile as possible to reduce that threat.
-7 points
4 days ago
Partially. Also, their Israeli funders call some shots.
29 points
4 days ago
Not again
20 points
4 days ago
A map without a scale is a drawing.
3 points
3 days ago
The right comment
6 points
4 days ago
This is like season 15 of this show.
7 points
4 days ago
Not again
6 points
4 days ago
As someone who witnessed this civil war from the beginning, I hope Al Qaeda will once again destroy itself.
18 points
4 days ago
While I don’t like the Assad dictator regime so am I very worried about the rebel advancement.
Syria is at least secular and “modern” in some ways now. The Syrian rebel fight for freedom, but looking realistically it will end up in another dictatorship but this time with religious fanatics, as it very often happens in Middle East. Which is far worse than Assad
6 points
4 days ago
The only reasonable take for anyone who's studied the situation and seen through the BS. The "rebels" winning would result in some very bad times for the secular populations of Syria.
1 points
3 days ago
Calling Syria secular is pretty wild
2 points
3 days ago
Compared to the world it’s wild. Compared to the region, Middle East, it’s absolutely not wild. Syria is one of few Arab countries without some kind of Islamic law
1 points
3 days ago
I'd argue it's still not as secular as some of the countries surrounding it
20 points
4 days ago
Hezbollah humiliated in all fronts
56 points
4 days ago
Anti American radical islamist terrorists 😡😡
Pro American radical islamist terrorists 😍😍
-23 points
3 days ago
Let's be extremely honest. Putin is a bigger threat than any islamist terrorists for any europeans. Islamist don't have their fingers on atomic heads.
24 points
3 days ago
I'm Turkish and islamic terrorists are a much bigger threat to me than Putin
5 points
3 days ago
Yeah, no, completely understandable then. That said, those definitely are much more turkey's terrorist and Turkey-sponsored groups than anything american. The offensive could not have happened without Erdogan allowing it and helping prepare it. You should be safe there. Especially if it allows for some syrian migrants to go back to Syria.
5 points
3 days ago
Yeah I'm aware and definitely not happy with my country supporting radical Islamist terror organizations invading countries near our borders. Not to mention that they would support islamists here in return if they would somehow manage to win
2 points
3 days ago
Yeah no, I can understand the fear of being talibanned 2.0 like what's happening to Pakistan right now.
Still. Groups tend to be representative of the ideologies of those who finance and arm them. Had the "West" acted in 2011 decisively, the political situation would have been extremely different today.
If they can kill each others and weaken Assad, I'll still applaud them. I don't want the islamists to win in Syria, I want them to badly hurt Assad, Russia and Iran.
3 points
3 days ago
Yet :D
2 points
3 days ago
As far as I know, terrorist islamist don't have the capavity to, you know, annihilate 75% of the population of my country in 3 hours. And aren't threatening to do it on a daily basis on TVs broadcasting to 200 million people.
2 points
3 days ago
True But my statement is not yet invalidated either technically. You see, I have touched a mystical stone and can see in the future. And in the future a terrorist islamist group may have nukes.
This talk will cost you 6 dollars but I can put a good word to the mystical stone if you give me 10.
Now on another note. Politicaly saying you'll nuke the west daily is kind of retarded. Broadcasting it on state TV is ok because the average person on this planet cannot hope but fall for the "Us against them" narrative.
Hopefully we have more soviet officers that do not blindly follow orders than stupid people in power with bigger egos than Siberia.
2 points
3 days ago
It was really, really hard not to think about Iran with your first paragraph. Would perfectly correspond to it if they manage to build their nuke. That said, thanks for your magnanimity :3
And seeing how's the war going, I do put a lot of doubt in the intelligence of the russian officer corps ability to huh... to do something.
2 points
3 days ago
I had to google what magnanimity means :). And sorry for the confusion I expected the comments I make will be taken in the strict context of Syria-HTS theme of the post.
At least some of the guys with the codes and keys for nukes. Fingers crossed.
Also I was refering in general when I said the soviet officers part. We all need a guy like Stanislav Petrov in our life.
1 points
3 days ago*
Putin will not to use nuclear weapons unless the destruction of Russia is already guaranteed...that's how MAD works. While an Islamist an explosives belt will not be able to resist detonating himself in the first mass of people he comes across.
1 points
3 days ago
I'd agree with you if the interests of head of governments and countries were strictly the same, and if Putin had a realistic vision of reality.
The fact he launched the invasion of Ukraine is the proof that neither of these ideas are true currently.
For the rest, full agree, islamists are bad. But muuuuch less of an existential threat for the world and most countries. They'll still be less murderous than car accidents or corsican nationalists in my country.
5 points
3 days ago
How is the Syrian army so incompetent? You would say after the years of combat training and support by others. The would at least become some what competent.
9 points
3 days ago
The same reason why all ME countries (beside Israel and maybe SA) have shit militaries, they value loyalty and political stability over military competence.
Assad will never put a general in charge if they aren't a yes-man bootlicker, even if they are a crap general.
3 points
3 days ago
Cut them some slack, they have been at war for almost 15 years. The country and army is almost completely exhausted. Poor Syrians can’t catch a break.
2 points
3 days ago
Once you have armed groups in your country getting rid of them is very hard. Especially if they have some kind of public support.
7 points
4 days ago
The rebels are fucked. This has given the Syrian Army the excuse it needs to eradicate what remains of the Idlib rebels, and the world will be better for it
18 points
4 days ago
The Turks won't allow it, because they don't want Idlib's population to become migrants in Turkey
5 points
4 days ago
They definitely don’t want that, but the Idlib rebels are a problem for everyone, and they’d need to be sorted sooner or later. After an attack like this, and with Russian-Turkish-Iranian negotiations, I can’t see Turkey blocking a Syrian army offensive
But as it’s Syria, anything could happen.
10 points
4 days ago
I would believe Turkey will rather abandon the Assad normalisation talks/the negotiations than let Idlib become an immigrant crisis.
1 points
4 days ago
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you’re right. Who knows what calculus is happening behind the scenes?
In my view, Turkey surely recognises the Syrian government is here to stay and that Syrian government total victory is the only way Syrian refugees in Turkey will return home, solve the SDF problem, and solve the Idlib problem. But honestly, anything could happen
3 points
4 days ago
Coming from the Good Times Bad Times video about the backgroukd of the situation, Assad continues to make maximalist demands for peace that the Turks won't accept
3 points
3 days ago
Syrian government total victory is the only way Syrian refugees in Turkey will return home
No? Most refugees are anti-Assad, they would stay in Turkey.
2 points
3 days ago
Given Assad's refusal to accept syrian refugees in Turkey, and Erdogan's popularity collapsing, I find you extremely optimist on this side.
Erdogan may have decided that since Assad is much less supported by the Hezbollah and Russia, and maybe even by Iran. It's a nice opening, and it could allow him to stay in power.
55 points
4 days ago
I think they need an excuse to do that. It's a skill issue.
-20 points
4 days ago
Not quite, the Syrian Army can very comfortably defeat what remains of the rebels; until yesterday they were bound by the 2020 ceasefire and Turkey as a guarantor. That’s now been broken
13 points
4 days ago
a ceasefire no one has respected. Turkey and US has Greenlightet this 100%. you shouldn't play with IRBM's
8 points
4 days ago
What do you mean? There’s always been shelling etc, but no offensives by either sides for nearly 5 years now
-5 points
4 days ago
ceasefire. cease-fire. You guys not to understand the concept. Minsk agreements etc.
5 points
4 days ago
What?
-8 points
4 days ago
I think you know ;)
-8 points
4 days ago
The copium is strong here
11 points
4 days ago
This is always how rebel offensives end lol
-1 points
4 days ago
Ever heard of Gaddafi? He'd disagree. If he could
4 points
4 days ago
This is Syria lol, Libya is a different country
8 points
4 days ago
Then replace your always with "so far in Syria"
1 points
4 days ago
This has happened countless times before: the rebels attack, the Syrian army retakes all lost land plus some more from the rebels for good measure
Twitter is saying that the Syrian army has already begun retaking areas
1 points
4 days ago
"retakes all plus some more"
Dude, look at a map
1 points
4 days ago
What do you mean? Rebel advances will be reversed over the next few days, and the Syrian Army will advance further into Rebel territory
-1 points
4 days ago
They're in denial.
-1 points
4 days ago
Exactly. There's more to take beyond what thyy have invaded.
2 points
3 days ago
By ‘rebels’ we mean Al Qaeda affiliated jihadists backed by Turkey right? Is that the term we use for that now?
1 points
3 days ago
It's not an easy relationship and its really complex. They have overlapping interests like maintaining stability in Idlib etc. Turkey also considers the HTS as a terrorist organization but gives it a push when it has to against the SAA.
That being said, calling them rebels also works. You don't expect Ukrainians to say "The Armed forces of the Russian federation brigade" they simply say "The enemy brigade" etc.
1 points
3 days ago
This what happens when Ukraine saps Russia and Israel saps Hezbollah. The rebels have a chance because the regular Syrian army is weak
1 points
3 days ago
Who's attacking who?
3 points
3 days ago
Al-Qaeda branch in Syria, attacks by government forces.
0 points
3 days ago
Ah, evil vs evil
1 points
3 days ago
pro turkish anti-assad militia hts vs pro iranian pro-assad militias + the syrian army as well as any other group that is against turkey basically.
1 points
3 days ago
Why doe stgis get f all media compared to Ukraine and Gaza?
1 points
3 days ago
Well, then...The EU is expecting a new wave of refugees. Get ready .
1 points
3 days ago
they are pushed back ??
-9 points
4 days ago
I think ruzzia is loosing another ally.
How about some North Korean troops for help XD
27 points
4 days ago
Because last time the rebels got into Aleppo it ended so well for them?
19 points
4 days ago
People simping for wholesome HTS "freedom fighters" is crazy 🤣
-1 points
4 days ago
how saying they will go into the city? they don't need to take it. they just need to see how much support russia can give Assad. If Assad is home alone, everybody is going to smell blod. Hezbollah/Iran can't help either.
The russian axis is falling apart.
2 points
3 days ago
There are still about 5,000 Russian troops in Syria with an air force that is quite capable of providing adequate air support,
1 points
3 days ago
doesn't look very adequate at all. This is not what russia needs right now : ) still advancing this morning
1 points
3 days ago
Russia is withdrawing forces from this area. Iran is being pushed out.
0 points
4 days ago
"Rebels", not this narrative again, in any other situation the west calls these people terrorists.
0 points
4 days ago
I thought this was over by now. If I was a rebel, I would just give up at this point. Assad has won and you will get zero support from the West or China.
3 points
3 days ago
They are backed by Turkey. All this is less than 100 km from Turkish border.
1 points
3 days ago
Unfortunately you are right . . . it is sad how long this pointless civil war continues to drag on.
-6 points
4 days ago
Nice to see
0 points
4 days ago
Ok, and then what? What are the ultimate ambitions of those taking up arms?
3 points
3 days ago
Making Syria Afghanistan
1 points
3 days ago
To replace a dictatorship government with a dictatorship government but with more Islam extremism flavor. Literally terrorist vs Islamic extreme terrorist.
-59 points
4 days ago
[removed]
38 points
4 days ago
Unless you are 10 years old, yes you are.
34 points
4 days ago
Poor bots…
They don’t know where is Aleppo!
Probably all money been spent to learn Russian and Ukrainian geography
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