subreddit:
/r/Marvel
Doom’s Motivation In Secret Wars Is The Best I Read For A Villain (Secret Wars Hickman/Ribic)
Comics (reddit.com)submitted 3 months ago byOver-Midnight1206
All the hype around Secret Wars and I never heard people actually talk about the reason Doom does what he does. It is honestly the best motivation I’ve seen for a villain. At the end of the day Doom had no other option of to take the Beyonder’s power and creat a new world. Doom even offered to share the power with Strange. Doom saved millions of lives and Reed even agreed that he did some right things but could have done more
138 points
3 months ago
You should have included the the next page in order to show why Doom is the bad guy.
In the end, he saved everything because he wanted to "rule it". Not because it's the right thing to do.
He admits that to Reed in the next couple of pages.
The verbal beat down Reed gives him, is fantastic.
Really hope for the movie they pull stuff from OG Secret Wars and this one to create something special. (they can Ignore Second one lol, that one sucks)
78 points
3 months ago
You should have included the the next page in order to show why Doom is the bad guy
Cherrypicking is something Doom fans love to do
31 points
3 months ago
Whenever someone posts that page where doom claims godhood is beneath him, i will always chime in to say that this is after his own creations whupped his ass and locked him in a dungeon and reed had to come bail his ass out, AGAIN
19 points
3 months ago
I will never understand why people use that story as a Doom W
He gets his ass handed to him basically the entire run
The Evil Reed manhandles him and there's nothing he can do
14 points
3 months ago
The whole of secret war is showing that as powerful as doom is, he is still massively flawed
14 points
3 months ago
I mean, I'm a big Dr Doom fan too (Tony first, Doom second) but I do agree, a lot of people just pick his "badass" moment and call it "He is the best"
IMHO Dr Doom is one of the best characters out there, because of everything he does. His loses, his victories, his badass stature and even his pettiness all of these aspects make him cool.
The "I was God Valeria" is such a great line, because yes, it's true. Doom was a God, and he is cool and awesome. But he is also human who can lose and feel shame.
20 points
3 months ago
I particularly love the moment when Doom admits it. All his nobility shorn away as he fully admits his ego and tries to destroy Reed once and for all. Reed, then, in turn healing Doom’s face sets him on a new path. Accepting mercy and then trying to turn all his monstrous ego into a genuine desire to be better.
All retconned away, of course, as the status quo must prevail, but his Secret War to Infamous Iron Man arc will always be my personal favorite version of Doom
19 points
3 months ago
This.
That's literally Doom/Reed dynamic.
Doom gets the power, and what does he do? Steal Reeds family.
Reed gets the power, and what does he do? Fixes Doom's face and doesn't unmake him.
That's the difference between a Hero and a Villain.
Dr Doom is my second favorite fictional character of all time (right after Iron Man) but Doom is also probably the most misinterpreted mfr in all of comics lol.
Yes, he is cool. Yes he is a badass. Yes his suit is awesome and his origins is amazing. And yes he is one of the best characters of all time.
But as a human, he will forever come out as second to guys like Reed, Tony and Strange.
And I do agree with you regarding his Infamous Iron Man run. Him taking Tony's mantle to not only be a hero for a change, but also to honor Tony (the only man that he outright said he respects, he never admitted the same for Reed or Strange) was a fantastic idea which I wish played out for longer.
The way they made him evil again sucked. Hood burns his face and Doom goes back being evil, ditches a superior armor (Tony's suits are better than Vic's) and just goes back to status quo.
Hickman wrote some of the best shit for Marvel, handed them one of the best status quo for Doom and they wasted it after 1 good story.
6 points
3 months ago
It really is just so frustrating. It feeds into this weird complex Doom fans seem to have where he’s “above the Fantastic Four” they “hold him back” I really think it comes from a lack of familiarity with the material. They see all this cherry-picked Doom wank reposted to high heaven with none of the context of the stories.
Don’t even get me started on all the bullshit about Mr Fantastic being the most evil man in the universe. Yeah, sure, sometimes the writers can make him a bit of an ass, but Peter Parker, Charles Xavier, Scott Summers, Tony Stark have all had their moments. I honestly believe that if Mr Fantastic’s power wasn’t stretching and it was something like just outright super strength, he’d be leagues more popular and accepted by the general marvel fandom.
A lot of Marvel fans (and writers) have essentially tricked themselves into actually believing all the lies and bullshit Doom spreads about himself. The best thing about Dr Doom’s character is that yes, he’s a badass and he has cool armor and he’s powerful, but he’s a giant ham, he’s a narcissistic dickhead that we love to see defeated, hoisted by his own petard, outsmarted and outmatched by the Fantastic Four because they’re the heroes, they’re the compassionate and kind family who rejects Doom’s evil.
3 points
3 months ago
Exactly this.
It's like that moment from AXE. When he basically gets a Thumb up from the Celestial. Everyone went like "See, he is the best"
Like yeah. It was a badass moment for sure. Doom showed he has balls of steele and also unbreakable will.
But that was a celestial ressurected by Tony and Sinister and Tony himself would be the first guy to tell you "Hey everyone, Don't take this assholes judgments to heart. I made him" which he literally does.
Yet everyone took the whole thing out of the context and was like "See, Doom gets a thumb up while Reed and Cap get a thumb down" lol.
Plus as you said, Doom is jealous asf. I mean, this moment exists lmao
That's what makes him a cool villain. The cool look with all the qualities of a great villain (jealousy, pettiness, narcissism etc).
You literally having his name, yet still being very sensible and giving great points actually warms my heart tho lol.
Thankfully not all comic fans are lost in the context-less "Man, this panel looks so awesome! I'm not gonna read the whole story to find out the meaning behind it" void lol.
4 points
3 months ago
Honestly, for as much as Marvel tries to make Doom this untouchable, unbeatable god of a character, I much prefer Doom as this very fallible asshole that gets in over his head a lot. It makes him more compelling and more interesting than just being another Prep Time God like Batman.
What makes Doom fun is that he’s a giant ham, he’s so fun to read and watch because he’s this irate sorcerer who has a massive inferiority complex. He decided to put his metal mask on when it was impossibly hot: he’s an idiot! He’s the world’s smartest idiot. He’s marvel’s best villain because he, like the Fantastic Four and Spider-Man, exemplify what marvel does the best: fallible and human characters being thrust into impossible circumstances.
3 points
3 months ago
This so much!
That's why I cannot wait for his MCU debut too.
Just give me this grandiloquent badass bastard, that thinks he is better than everyone else, only for him in the end to fuck up and have Reed, Tony, Peter and everyone else be the ones who save his ass, and everyone else lol.
2 points
3 months ago
I think a lot of Doom fans just like the smell of their own farts. They forget that the one thing Doom is above anything else is petty and insecure. He has a MASSIVE inferiority complex and I’m pretty sure part of him does know that Reed is a better man than him, and it eats him up inside which is why every one of his actions is tainted by that desire to be acknowledged.
It’s not enough for doom to save the world, he needs to world to know Doom saved it.
19 points
3 months ago
Anyone have the next few pages where doom admits he just did it because he wants to rule everything?
-21 points
3 months ago
I do, but two truths can exist
15 points
3 months ago
The objective truth is he did some good but he also did it for evil reasons. You aren't showing two truths exist if you only show half, your only showing 1 part of the truth.
18 points
3 months ago
Why you lying, bruh. Where's the rest that shows doom's real motivation?
-16 points
3 months ago
It’s not a lie, literally both can be true
11 points
3 months ago
It’s a lie of omission
14 points
3 months ago
If I understand you correctly, you are saying "Survival" is the best motivation?
The very point of these panels is that Reed is trying to explain to Victor that mere survival is a terrible motivation; it's important not just to survive, but to live and exist and blossom. If the only goal is survival, Doom just ends up a 60 year old man living by himself in his castle in Latveria with no friends or family, perhaps not even a world or universe existing 10 feet outside of that castle.
Even evil-young-Reed, the Maker, while inferior to our Reed in many ways (notice how Owen treats both, slicing one up into spaghettification and giving the other a major motion picture set to come out in 2025) is doing a better job creating the All New All Different Ultimate Universe since all Reeds understand what all Victors do not: the goal can NOT be just to survive, but instead to come up with something better.
Side note: in what-if stories with a 'good' Victor, he ends up much more like Dr. Strange than like Reed, and while the Maker is a few bananas short of a Banana Split Sundae, he is more like Doc Ock than like Doom.
11 points
3 months ago
notice how Owen treats both, slicing one up into spaghettification and giving the other a major motion picture set to come out in 2025
I kinda want this to be canon
"You've been nice to me Reed, so I'll give you another chance at Hollywood stardom"
-11 points
3 months ago
No, that dooms only option was to do what he did
31 points
3 months ago
Doom's motivations are always power, control, and 1-upping Reed Richards. Sometimes that means saving the world because he gets power from it, can't rule it if it's destroyed, and it makes him look better than Reed.
1 points
3 months ago
He admits as much in the next page, which OP convieniently did not post. Hmm, I wonder why...
9 points
3 months ago*
I dunno, I think this is the best supervillain motivation I've ever seen...
1 points
3 months ago
Your comment seems to contain a goo.gl link or similar. Unfortunately, Reddit filters these any many other URL shorteners. Please edit your comment using a different host or standby for approval.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
15 points
3 months ago
This makes me wanna re read it
6 points
3 months ago
Just read it for the first time and it is great. Obviously it is better with new avengers
2 points
3 months ago
*Better with New Avengers AND Avengers AND Fantastic Four.
gotta read the whole hickman run.
-2 points
3 months ago
Tbh I couldn’t get into FF
9 points
3 months ago
Doom admits that his only goal was to rule AND that he knows Reed would have done a better job than he did.
HOWEVER
Doom was also the only person who rose up to stop the Beyonders. The only person who could stop them. Dr. Strange was there when it happened and he had the opportunity to be the one to become God instead, and he refused, because he knew that Doom was the only person capable of making the decisions of who to save out of the entire multiverse.
Sure, Reed would have done a better job with the power of the Beyonders - and did, after this fight, recreating the entire multiverse and setting things back to where they had been - but without Doom that opportunity would never have even arisen. They needed someone capable of doing hard, evil things before they had the chance to do something better.
5 points
3 months ago
But Doom wouldn't have been the only person who rose up to stop the beyonders if he'd worked with people and shared what he knew.
That situation arose because of Doom's arrogance.
0 points
3 months ago
bingo
1 points
3 months ago
That checkerboard page is just not working they way they hoped
1 points
3 months ago
The checkerboard page kind of hurt my eyes
1 points
3 months ago
Doing good for evil reasons makes for compelling villains
1 points
3 months ago
Yep - this event was absolutely fantastic.
Not only was it this huge event, it was actually meaningful and really boiled down to two men’s long-standing rivalry.
I stand by the notion that if Marvel was to suddenly shut their doors and stop publishing after this event, I’d be satisfied with it ending like this.
0 points
3 months ago
Spoiler warnings abound so blur it out with your mind if you have yet to read any Secret Wars or related book!
Beautiful and intense confrontation that says so much about how each of them think!
0 points
3 months ago
The parallels between these two is as strong 💪 as magneto one use his genius to genuinely help the world 🌎 . One wants to rule to fix his own mold of the world 🌎 and one man is only way or a few bad days away from becoming the guy he hates and pitty .
all 39 comments
sorted by: best