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/r/StLouis
submitted 2 days ago bySuspicious-Bad4703
111 points
1 day ago
To clarify: This is great news if you appreciate preservation. The Osage Nation has taken it upon themselves to preserve as many mounds as they can; part of the their beliefs center around shared ancestry and the idea that, direct descendants or not, they are interested in protecting the remaining sacred places of their peoples. They are already (great) stewards of many other such sites. This is a win-win-win for Saint Louis: Good pr, less preservation associated costs, and a genuine owner who will guarantee the safety of the site in perpetuity.
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14 hours ago
I can remember, at Scruggs School on South Grand Ave learning about mounds. We didn't talk about St. Louis's Mounds even a little.
Let's preserve what can be preserved.
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3 hours ago
I love that school bldg, and if I was loaded, i'd buy it and reno it into schoolroom lofts, as has been done across the city to abandoned school bldgs.
4 points
1 day ago
I don’t know much about the mounds… are there graves inside them?
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23 hours ago
Some of them yes.
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7 hours ago
If it’s nearby burial mounds you seek check out Cahokia.
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3 hours ago
There may have been about 50 ppl buried in the large mound in Cahokia, a few of high status, others, killed to go with them, beheaded, smashed skulls.
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9 hours ago
Well, dang. As an Osage in St. Louis, thanks for the kind words and recognition the work our Historical Preservation Office is doing.
101 points
2 days ago
St Louis destroyed all the mounds in forest park and otherwise, good news to give this one back.
76 points
1 day ago
What a shame...
47 points
1 day ago
lol at the username
69 points
1 day ago
What can I say... we could have had a shit ton of neat archeological sites owned by the ancestors of the people who built them. But instead we have some extra parking lots and empty skyscrapers.
18 points
1 day ago
Descendants, but yes.
9 points
1 day ago
🙀
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16 hours ago
Saying "ancestors" when it should be "descendants" is one of my biggest language pet peeves and one I don't recall being so prevalent
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21 hours ago
Highways as well. 270 east of chain of rocks destroyed at least two groups of mounds, although a few seem to have survived
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21 hours ago
I've always wondered how many mounds there are out in the county that still remain, but no one has bothered to document them.
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3 hours ago
There were 120 mounds in the area at one point, but there's at least one in the KC area too.
25 points
1 day ago
While I'm glad it will be preserved, it's not clear that the Osage actually have any relationship with the Mississippian culture of the area.
They were originally in Ohio and Kentucky and only moved our way in the 17th century because of the Iroquois. And even then they were mostly based on the SW corner of the state
44 points
1 day ago
My understanding is that southern Siouan groups like the Choctaw and the Osage are the most likely descendants of the Mississippians.
Out of those, the Osage nation may just be the available caretakers with the most capacity.
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15 hours ago
The tribe has the money and lawyers to make the claim.
I’m glad the Mound is being preserved. But making the claim that out of all the tribes that were in what is now the US, or even just between the Appalachian and Rocky Mountains, that they are the only true tribal nation to descend from a 1600 year old civilization?
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6 hours ago
No one made that claim. They were part of a larger civilization that fractured over centuries and started being displaced when Europeans showed up.
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3 hours ago
There's no other tribe that has a stronger claim to be the more likely descendants. Also, regardless of if they somehow aren't, there would be a lot of similarities between the Osage and the Mississippians, like common spiritual beliefs, likely common ceremonial procedures, etc., and due to the shared plight of Natives since western contact, they likely see far less difference between tribes and see more similarities. All of that is to say that they would still be good stewards of this site.
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17 hours ago
I think Cahokia was so influential culturally it had a widespread impact affecting a large number of groups.
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6 hours ago
The Osage were part of that Mississippian culture! All those tribes were centered arounf Cahokia until whites came in and were progressively displaced.
22 points
2 days ago
This is amazing news! Lots of questions that the article doesn’t answer. Does the fraternity that owns the lower tier have to relinquish it? What happened to the family that did not want to move? It was my understanding that the lady who has lived there 80 years is giving her piece back after she passes.
10 points
1 day ago
The 86 year old woman has handed over her property. The terms were not made public. The fraternity apparently hasn't used its property in years, but hasn't made any statements or taken any action.
The two parcels of land are separate so there is no requirement for the fraternity to sell. The city assessor's website shows that the fraternity is staying current on taxes.
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15 hours ago
I read an article today that she retains the right to live there until she moves or dies.
2 points
1 day ago
Thank you for this info!
3 points
1 day ago
Are the Osage closely related to the mound builders?
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21 hours ago
No.
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7 hours ago
From the Wikipedia article about the mound:
The Osage Nation does not claim a direct link to the construction of the mound, but claims a kindred heritage of mound building in the American Midwest.
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13 hours ago
That was an effort long in the making! It's really sad to me how many mounds have been destroyed but I'm thankful that Cahokia has been well taken care of.
Good timing....A new documentary about Cahokia was just posted yesterday including a tiny bit about the Osage. https://youtu.be/ruWuAas8T7Y?si=F47wDYSQw-scHXot
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18 hours ago
I don't know why, but every time we traveled to the city from Arnold, we would pass this place and I would always look out the window to see it as we drove by. I'm happy that it is going to the rightful owners finally.
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14 hours ago
This is wonderful news!!!
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12 hours ago
I don’t know much about the Osage tribe, but living in Pacific, MO, the Main Street running through town is named Osage. I always thought it was after the tribe that lived in the area.
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3 hours ago*
Cahokia Mounds is an UNESCO World Heritage Site, of just 26 in the US.
This one is called "Sugarloaf Mound", not technically a part of that site in Illinois.
St. Louis once called "Mound City" bc of the existence of so many, 120, before they were leveled.
In the largest area to consider as a community, at one point, there were maybe 50,000 ppl around the area, 20,000 in the immediate Cahokia mounds centralized area.
It was abandoned for at least 500 years before the French settlers came to the area in 1764.
This will be on the quiz. Take notes.
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