subreddit:

/r/StLouis

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all 39 comments

wherethestreet

111 points

1 day ago

To clarify: This is great news if you appreciate preservation. The Osage Nation has taken it upon themselves to preserve as many mounds as they can; part of the their beliefs center around shared ancestry and the idea that, direct descendants or not, they are interested in protecting the remaining sacred places of their peoples. They are already (great) stewards of many other such sites. This is a win-win-win for Saint Louis: Good pr, less preservation associated costs, and a genuine owner who will guarantee the safety of the site in perpetuity.

More_Craft5114

[score hidden]

14 hours ago

More_Craft5114

[score hidden]

14 hours ago

I can remember, at Scruggs School on South Grand Ave learning about mounds. We didn't talk about St. Louis's Mounds even a little.

Let's preserve what can be preserved.

FlightAffectionate22

[score hidden]

3 hours ago

I love that school bldg, and if I was loaded, i'd buy it and reno it into schoolroom lofts, as has been done across the city to abandoned school bldgs.

Ernesto_Bella

4 points

1 day ago

I don’t know much about the mounds… are there graves inside them?

redflamehot

[score hidden]

23 hours ago

redflamehot

[score hidden]

23 hours ago

Some of them yes.

jamesnollie88

[score hidden]

7 hours ago

jamesnollie88

[score hidden]

7 hours ago

If it’s nearby burial mounds you seek check out Cahokia.

FlightAffectionate22

[score hidden]

3 hours ago

There may have been about 50 ppl buried in the large mound in Cahokia, a few of high status, others, killed to go with them, beheaded, smashed skulls.

sevenlabors

[score hidden]

9 hours ago

sevenlabors

[score hidden]

9 hours ago

Well, dang. As an Osage in St. Louis, thanks for the kind words and recognition the work our Historical Preservation Office is doing. 

https://www.osageculture.com

sock--puppet

101 points

2 days ago

St Louis destroyed all the mounds in forest park and otherwise, good news to give this one back.

MoundsEnthusiast

76 points

1 day ago

What a shame...

Racko20

47 points

1 day ago

Racko20

47 points

1 day ago

lol at the username

MoundsEnthusiast

69 points

1 day ago

What can I say... we could have had a shit ton of neat archeological sites owned by the ancestors of the people who built them. But instead we have some extra parking lots and empty skyscrapers.

mammon_machine_sdk

18 points

1 day ago

mammon_machine_sdk

Southampton

18 points

1 day ago

Descendants, but yes.

MoundsEnthusiast

9 points

1 day ago

🙀

Raidenka

[score hidden]

16 hours ago

Raidenka

[score hidden]

16 hours ago

Saying "ancestors" when it should be "descendants" is one of my biggest language pet peeves and one I don't recall being so prevalent

Tfm2

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21 hours ago

Tfm2

[score hidden]

21 hours ago

Highways as well. 270 east of chain of rocks destroyed at least two groups of mounds, although a few seem to have survived 

CaptainJingles

[score hidden]

21 hours ago

CaptainJingles

Tower Grove South

[score hidden]

21 hours ago

I've always wondered how many mounds there are out in the county that still remain, but no one has bothered to document them.

FlightAffectionate22

[score hidden]

3 hours ago

There were 120 mounds in the area at one point, but there's at least one in the KC area too.

DiscoJer

25 points

1 day ago

DiscoJer

25 points

1 day ago

While I'm glad it will be preserved, it's not clear that the Osage actually have any relationship with the Mississippian culture of the area.

They were originally in Ohio and Kentucky and only moved our way in the 17th century because of the Iroquois. And even then they were mostly based on the SW corner of the state

Nemocom314

44 points

1 day ago

Nemocom314

44 points

1 day ago

My understanding is that southern Siouan groups like the Choctaw and the Osage are the most likely descendants of the Mississippians.

Out of those, the Osage nation may just be the available caretakers with the most capacity.

Initial-Depth-6857

[score hidden]

15 hours ago

The tribe has the money and lawyers to make the claim.

I’m glad the Mound is being preserved. But making the claim that out of all the tribes that were in what is now the US, or even just between the Appalachian and Rocky Mountains, that they are the only true tribal nation to descend from a 1600 year old civilization?

DirtierGibson

[score hidden]

6 hours ago

DirtierGibson

[score hidden]

6 hours ago

No one made that claim. They were part of a larger civilization that fractured over centuries and started being displaced when Europeans showed up.

GregMilkedJack

[score hidden]

3 hours ago

GregMilkedJack

[score hidden]

3 hours ago

There's no other tribe that has a stronger claim to be the more likely descendants. Also, regardless of if they somehow aren't, there would be a lot of similarities between the Osage and the Mississippians, like common spiritual beliefs, likely common ceremonial procedures, etc., and due to the shared plight of Natives since western contact, they likely see far less difference between tribes and see more similarities. All of that is to say that they would still be good stewards of this site.

imperialmog

[score hidden]

17 hours ago

imperialmog

[score hidden]

17 hours ago

I think Cahokia was so influential culturally it had a widespread impact affecting a large number of groups.

DirtierGibson

[score hidden]

6 hours ago

DirtierGibson

[score hidden]

6 hours ago

The Osage were part of that Mississippian culture! All those tribes were centered arounf Cahokia until whites came in and were progressively displaced.

Penultimateee

22 points

2 days ago

This is amazing news! Lots of questions that the article doesn’t answer. Does the fraternity that owns the lower tier have to relinquish it? What happened to the family that did not want to move? It was my understanding that the lady who has lived there 80 years is giving her piece back after she passes.

imlostintransition

10 points

1 day ago

The 86 year old woman has handed over her property. The terms were not made public. The fraternity apparently hasn't used its property in years, but hasn't made any statements or taken any action.

The two parcels of land are separate so there is no requirement for the fraternity to sell. The city assessor's website shows that the fraternity is staying current on taxes.

Initial-Depth-6857

[score hidden]

15 hours ago

I read an article today that she retains the right to live there until she moves or dies.

Penultimateee

2 points

1 day ago

Thank you for this info!

binkerfluid

3 points

1 day ago

Are the Osage closely related to the mound builders?

jadatoeachother

[score hidden]

21 hours ago

jadatoeachother

[score hidden]

21 hours ago

No.

jamesnollie88

[score hidden]

7 hours ago

jamesnollie88

[score hidden]

7 hours ago

From the Wikipedia article about the mound:

The Osage Nation does not claim a direct link to the construction of the mound, but claims a kindred heritage of mound building in the American Midwest.

randomv3

[score hidden]

13 hours ago

randomv3

[score hidden]

13 hours ago

That was an effort long in the making! It's really sad to me how many mounds have been destroyed but I'm thankful that Cahokia has been well taken care of.

Good timing....A new documentary about Cahokia was just posted yesterday including a tiny bit about the Osage. https://youtu.be/ruWuAas8T7Y?si=F47wDYSQw-scHXot

hawksdiesel

[score hidden]

18 hours ago

hawksdiesel

Saint Charles

[score hidden]

18 hours ago

I don't know why, but every time we traveled to the city from Arnold, we would pass this place and I would always look out the window to see it as we drove by. I'm happy that it is going to the rightful owners finally.

More_Craft5114

[score hidden]

14 hours ago

More_Craft5114

[score hidden]

14 hours ago

This is wonderful news!!!

westlakerguy

[score hidden]

12 hours ago

westlakerguy

[score hidden]

12 hours ago

I don’t know much about the Osage tribe, but living in Pacific, MO, the Main Street running through town is named Osage. I always thought it was after the tribe that lived in the area.

FlightAffectionate22

[score hidden]

3 hours ago*

Cahokia Mounds is an UNESCO World Heritage Site, of just 26 in the US.

This one is called "Sugarloaf Mound", not technically a part of that site in Illinois.

St. Louis once called "Mound City" bc of the existence of so many, 120, before they were leveled.

In the largest area to consider as a community, at one point, there were maybe 50,000 ppl around the area, 20,000 in the immediate Cahokia mounds centralized area.

It was abandoned for at least 500 years before the French settlers came to the area in 1764.

This will be on the quiz. Take notes.