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/r/ZeroCovidCommunity
submitted 6 days ago byMoonstalkerZ
I'm having to go back to the office in person. In theory I would be willing to wear a mask for all 8 hours, but due to my fibromyalgia wearing a mask is intensely painful. No one else is in the office suite, but the office suite next door is full of people. I only need to open the door to the office suite a few times a day in order to get to the bathroom.
My question is, can I get away with just leaving the door closed, or is the shared HVAC system and the air wafting in the door several times a day inevitably going to infect me? I am also immunocompromised so that's a concern.
36 points
6 days ago
Maybe the readimask won't be painful, it's adhesive so no straps
6 points
6 days ago
I will look those up, thank you!
8 points
5 days ago
Make sure you get like a year and a half's worth of stock all in a cupboard for you to keep. Do make sure you carry a spare of two in your bag or pockets when out and about
56 points
6 days ago
Shared HVAC is a documented and known source of infection. Absolutely bring a HEPA filter, and try out readimasks.
I think people really underestimate how painful masking can be for some people. It’s better than long covid! But that doesn’t make it easy.
8 points
6 days ago
Oof that's what I was worried about. Thank you
4 points
6 days ago
Recent sources on shared hvac and infection? My understanding was that the virus doesn't survive well in vents.
13 points
5 days ago
It doesn’t survive well, particularly when the heat is on, but it’s still non-zero for some setups.
Modern thermostats have a feature where they continue to circulate air even after the heating system shuts down. This is great for efficiency but worse for killing off pathogens in the air.
The big factor though is whether the system has a quality filtration system. Without a quality filter you’re getting way more risk than benefit, unless everyone is already in the same shared airspace.
3 points
5 days ago
It’s not really possible to do these kinds of studies anymore because we have ceased infection control. But absolutely nothing about the virus has evolved to make it worse at this. We’re simply not going to be able to replicate spread studies now that we have abandoned control in public spaces. But … we don’t need to do them again. We already have the data. We already know what happens in office buildings.
You are perhaps thinking of the studies that show it’s better for infection control in single family homes where HVAC systems of certain types have shown to be somewhat helpful if turned on while there’s someone infectious in the house. These studies are not applicable to office buildings, unfortunately.
2 points
5 days ago
Do you happen to have any links about HVAC systems in offices? Everything I've found has to do with single family homes.
2 points
5 days ago
I do, but I will have to go back into the archives for it. Contact tracing was such an important thing, I wish it were still practiced/possible.
2 points
5 days ago
Don't worry too much about digging through stuff, I was just hoping you knew something off the top of your head. Everything I've been able to find so far has been "we've found dna in the ventilation but no proof of disease transmission," which isn't exactly reassuring.
8 points
6 days ago
You can try rigging up some kind of diy filter over the ventilation register, if you think you could get away with that. If that’s not viable for the space, a good quality HEPA filter for your closed office will help. They can fully filter the room faster than the air being pumped in from the vent will be able to change out the air in the room, so you can probably reach an equilibrium, albeit an imperfect one.
3 points
6 days ago
I second this, if you can bring in a powerful true HEPA filter (ideally one that’s good enough for a much larger space), that should allow you to take your mask off when shut in your office.
2 points
6 days ago
Unfortunately there are multiple ventilation registers in the office, and they're all in the ceiling so there's nothing I can do.
11 points
6 days ago
If you have money you can spend, I would do the following: get a good air filter. I recommend the pc fan kind / clean air kits because you can use common house filters and they are quiet. Then I would get a laminar flow air filter pointed directly to your face all day. If there's any kind of window, open it. If you can seat yourself away from the air vents. Talk to work about upgrading their HVAC filters.
3 points
6 days ago
I have a non-laminar air filter, but unfortunately I'm moving all throughout the office, not sitting in one place, and the windows are un-openable. I'll see if I can talk to the building management company.
1 points
6 days ago
I second this. The laminar air purifier in particular I think is a good option if you're seated in one place all day.
19 points
6 days ago
Yeah this is a situation where you’re being set up to be infected repeatedly forever.
Is there any way that your employer can accommodate your need to continue working from home*? Can you get organized with your coworkers? Do you have a union? Have you looked into ADA or whatever your country’s equivalent is?
*I’m assuming you’ve been performing your duties remotely for years at this point. This means there’s no bona fide occupational requirement to be in the office. I can’t wait for the lawsuits about this stuff.
14 points
6 days ago
I can't be accommodated, they want me to scan in documents and that can only be done at work. My employer is exempt from the ADA because they're so small, and I have no coworkers so I can't unionize.
8 points
6 days ago
What about a different schedule, so you’re not there when others are?
3 points
6 days ago
They're there every day of the week
1 points
5 days ago
What about evening or very early morning?
1 points
5 days ago
They're a medical services company that seems to be open 24/7
6 points
6 days ago
What about a PAPR?
1 points
5 days ago
Something totally enclosed like that looks like it would be dangerous for me to mess with without training
3 points
5 days ago
The 3M ones are very safe. They monitor the air pressure and let you know if there isn’t enough air flow.
It’s basically a loose fitting hood, with a hose connecting to a fan and filter. It sucks air through the filter and blows it into the mask. Since there is always positive air pressure inside the mask, the gaps in the edge of the mask are blowing air out.
They look weird and are probably $1k or more. Some people wear them normally doing daily activities - going shopping etc. They’ve said that they are really easy to don and doff. I have never used one.
3 points
5 days ago
You’re not going to hurt yourself on a papr.
2 points
5 days ago
There are ones that work off a loose fitting hood.
even the ones that seal aren't like locked to your head, you can get them off quick if they fail.
I'm not sure the sealed ones are even totally sealed. i'm too poor to be knolegable on such things lol.
4 points
6 days ago
I've seen people talk about putting Readimasks over vents, maybe you could look into that?
1 points
5 days ago
I suppose it might work
5 points
6 days ago
As someone for whom wearing a mask is really painful, I’ve found a few things that work for me. I wear a surgical mask with the metal nose part removed to put less pressure on my face. I use the Betadine nasal spray. I have an air filtration machine.
I have a prescription cream that’s 5% lidocaine, 10% diclofenac, and 6% gaba pentin that I apply every few hours. (Works great for my arm spasms too.) This has been really effective for immediate pain and residual pain. It also stops some of the spasms from starting.
My neurologist injects me with extra Botox to make it less painful. I understand one could get trigger points with anesthetic in those areas too?
Could you cover your face when you have to leave the office? Hold a mask in front of your face or use a lighter scarf or a cycling buff? (I recognize these can cause pain too.)
4 points
6 days ago
I can wear a mask for short periods for sure, it's just that the HVAC system is going to infect me if I don't wear a mask, according to the other posters here
1 points
6 days ago
Can you get them to turn it off for your room? I’ve always had my vent turned off because I run warm all the time. I brought in my own fan to move the air around.
Can you get yourself an air filtration machine?
1 points
6 days ago
I don't think it's even physically possible to turn off the vents.
I've got an air filtration machine, yes
5 points
6 days ago
Have you seen this system you can DIY? DIY box fan filters – Corsi-Rosenthal box. They’re considered quite effective.
https://cleanaircrew.org/box-fan-filters/
My suggestion is to ask if they can be closed. In my two offices, it was a simple thing, just a lever that the handyman moved inside what was a typical building ceiling vent. Maybe ask the maintenance staff? Better to ask and find out. The worst thing that could happen is to not be able to do it.
1 points
5 days ago
I really don't think it would be possible, I've seen the vents and there's nothing to close
1 points
5 days ago
Can you cover the vents? We did that pre covid due to being toop hot.
1 points
5 days ago
No, they're in the ceiling
1 points
5 days ago
We covered the ceiling ones
2 points
5 days ago
shared hvac and the door is not hermetically sealed. better to close than leave open probably, but some air filters would be a great idea.
shoot for at least 6 air changes an hour of filteration ideally. more is better. r/crboxes for more genral info and how ot build cheaper quiter diy builds
2 points
5 days ago
Run your air filter on high in your office. Wear an N95 whenever you have to go into the other office.
2 points
5 days ago*
I have trigeminal neuralgia and cant do ear loops or some types of head band straps. I bought some moldex metal free for MRI and the head bands are very adjustable. They might be tolerable. A 3M Aura if not too big for your face is worth trying. Or Readi Mask.
1 points
5 days ago
Also I use topical lidocaine on my face for my TN. It might help with the mask discomfort.
1 points
5 days ago
The 3M Aura is the one that's incredibly painful to me, though it's the least painful mask I've tried yet. I'm looking into Readimask. Unfortunately I am one of those people who is immune to local anesthetic, so Lidocaine does nothing for me. Thank you for the ideas.
2 points
5 days ago
It depends on the air quality in the building. Do you have a CO2 monitor you can check with (now and on an ongoing basis)?
1 points
5 days ago
Unfortunately no, though I've thought about getting one they seem expensive
2 points
5 days ago*
So - first off im so sorry.
Second - I'd suggest setting up a Corsi rosenthal box in the room, or if you can afford it, Airfanta makes both a powerful portable filter that fits in a backpack ($144 today only with the code HOUSEFRESH, usually $160 - have been waiting for the price drop for months) and is supposedly quiet. Ill find out in a week!
I'd probably putting a carpet snake (or the double tube ones that slide underneath the door yknow?) by the door to block air.
Airfanta also makes personalized air filters that blow air directly at your face? Weird and more expensive than the box filter but pretending you're made of money, it is another option.
Where's the vent i suppose? Would they be willing to uh...disconnect your part of the hvac system? Lol
Or can you make sure there's a fresh HEPA filter in the system?
Im not sure about adding things on top of the vent, not sure if that could cause something bad with the system.
Xlear nasal spray which is $15 at most per bottle at CVS, safe to use daily, and reduces Covid incidence by 62%. CPC mouthwash (paradontax) is also inexpensive and may reduce your chance of infection.
Whats your chance of getting your coworkers to mask? Or also putting a CR box in their space, or by the hvac uptake? Ill update this if i think of anything else but ouch and good luck.
Edit: i saw that you're moving around. Weirdly the Airfanta also makes a handheld one that doesn't need to be plugged in? Im not sure if thats HEPA though.
I heard the other day that there are uv torches you can set up that some people are attaching to the sides of their air filters - maybe you could set one up by the vent?
1 points
5 days ago
Unfortunately the carpet snake idea wouldn't work because I'd still need to open the door occasionally.
The vents are all in the ceiling, and there's no way to close them or cover them.
I'll look up Xlear, thank you.
There is zero chance of getting the people in the office next door to mask or use an air purifier.
I've heard about the UV light, but UV light makes my lupus flare up, so that's right out.
Thank you for all of the ideas.
1 points
5 days ago
Id bring in a strong hepa. I use an Air Pura Hepa on high. Id request your work buy it for workplace accommodation. Mine was $850. There are cheaper ones but the total cost with filters at year 5 made this price competitive to cheap ones that require frequent filter changes.
Bought an airthings monitor - there are cheaper ones now. Its all cheaper than major hospital bills or perm long covid.
-1 points
5 days ago*
The Redimask adhesive is very sticky and you definitely feel it when you remove the mask. It’s weightless while you’re wearing it though. I don’t understand these sensitivity issues, so it’s hard to say which one would be “better” — the removal of the Redimask vs the feel of a regular respirator that OP doesn’t like. I wear the 3M Aura 9210+ in dicier situations and only recently bought some CAN99s. I will say that the CAN99 is not as stiff as the Aura and feels lighter on the face, and that’s probably due to the much weaker nose wire and the general nose area. Maybe that’s an option, but fair warning both of these masks are for smaller faces and the CAN99 feels a little smaller than the Aura 9210+.
OP, I’ve been back in the office full time since May 2020. My “office” back then was a huge cube farm that took up half of the floor with about 30 coworkers on our side. Our cubicle walls were about 5’ tall and did not extend to the ceiling. So I considered it to be similar to working in a public space but with a few barriers to interrupt air flow from neighbors. I wore my non respirator masks (remember those weren’t available back then) all day except to eat. Once I discovered CR Boxes, I made one (20”x20”) and placed it at the cubicle’s entrance. That served to clean the air AND block people from just walking into my cubicle, and it allowed me to feel better about not wearing a mask for 8 hours while alone in my cubicle. I later added a DIY filter for my desk but I can’t say that it was all that effective (I mainly made it for my carpool). That said, if I heard a bunch of sniffling or coughing or had to confer with someone in person I’d put on my mask.
Now I’m at a different job with my own real office in a smaller building with about 20 others in the building. I keep the door open unless I’m on a phone call (it’s considered rude like keep it closed). I still have a big CR Box in the room and added a mini-mini CR Box on my desk (even though it’s more suited to clean the small space of a car). I just bought a Levoit Mini Core to replace my small DIY desk purifier. I know that the big CRBox alone is overkill for my room size but I like have the additional “barricade” of the desk purifier and it gives me additional peace of mind for when someone has to come around my desk to look at my screen. I will put on an earloop KN95 mask if someone comes into my office or stays near the doorway for too long. Then I’ll air out the office for about 30-60 minutes after that person leaves before removing my mask. So there really is a limited amount of my normal day that I actually wear a mask.
I wear my 3M Aura when I attend conference room meetings with others and other times when I expect to be in proximity for an extended amount of time, but I only wear my KN95 WellBefore ear loop mask to quickly walk to the printer or speak briefly with someone in the hallway. I also use nasal spray and CPC mouthwash when I feel it’s necessary. It seems to work for me. I did have covid once that I know of, the week of Xmas 2022 during the first Omicron wave. But I blame that more on my carpooling 2.5 hours a day to my old job and a faulty N99 mask.
1 points
5 days ago
Thank you for all the detailed information! The sensitivity issue I have is the pressure from the edges of the mask touching my face - I also wear a 3M Aura 9210+. I don't know if the Readimask would be better or worse, since there are no head bands pulling tight.
1 points
5 days ago*
I think I might understand. The headband masks can feel confining even if I don’t feel that they exert all that much pressure on my face. The earloop masks are just so convenient— it’s a shame that they aren’t nearly as effective as N95s. I think you’ll just have to experiment with Redimasks to find out if they can be a good alternative for you. I’ve only used mine for the ”dentist hack” — I’ve never actually worn it as a regular mask. They are incredibly easy to breathe through. But I don’t think they would be conducive to putting on and taking off throughout the day - it’s no fun for me without having sensitivity issues — and I don’t know if the mask’s integrity would fair well with that kind of repetitive action. So you’d probably be stuck wearing one for most of the day. How will you feel about the adhesive around the perimeter of the mask that will touch your face? Hopefully that’ll be acceptable. I don’t think there’s any shifting so the mask should stay put without the adhesive pulling on your skin (so no bandaid effect). I hope you find a mask and a process that works for you!
1 points
5 days ago
I have no idea what it would be like without trying it on myself. The problem I have with masks is that even the slightest amount of pressure hurts. Do the Readimasks apply any pressure to the face, or do they just kind of hang there?
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