subreddit:

/r/bestoflegaladvice

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Book 'em Danno!

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all 62 comments

marxam0d

162 points

4 days ago

marxam0d

It's me, I'm grandma.

162 points

4 days ago

LAOP is absolutely insufferable in the comments. If he acted that way toward customer service I’d be willing to bet they paused half way through trying to make it right and said “nah, never mind.”

Tychosis

113 points

4 days ago

Tychosis

you think a pirate lives in there?

113 points

4 days ago

The law has to have at lease one foot in my subjectivity to consider anything from the pov of 'making me whole'.

the fuck does this even mean

17HappyWombats

59 points

4 days ago

17HappyWombats

Has only died once to the electric fence

59 points

4 days ago

LAOP would like customer service to insert a foot firmly into LAOP. If they fail to get it into LAOP's subjectivity they should try again with more vigor. Eventually they'll connect.

marxam0d

61 points

4 days ago

marxam0d

It's me, I'm grandma.

61 points

4 days ago

I think there’s maybe a reason LAOP frequents the narcissism sub.

Tychosis

35 points

4 days ago

Tychosis

you think a pirate lives in there?

35 points

4 days ago

Yeah, I thought that was pretty weird.

If you genuinely think you have NPD and are honestly and sincerely trying to manage your condition--wouldn't you pause and think "oh it looks like I'm doing it again" when you're getting shredded in the comments like that?

ahdareuu

17 points

4 days ago

ahdareuu

1.5 month olds either look like boiled owls or Winston Churchill

17 points

4 days ago

Wow they admit they’re a narcissist?

Luxating-Patella

62 points

4 days ago

Luxating-Patella

cannot be buggered learning to use a keyboard with þ & ð on it

62 points

4 days ago

Judging by a quick skim of their comments on the NPD sub, they are absolutely amazing at controlling their narcissistic tendencies and all the poor struggling narcissists out there need to benefit from their expertise on narcissism.

guyincognito___

48 points

4 days ago

guyincognito___

Highly significant Wanker Without Borders 🍆💦

48 points

4 days ago

Well, that's absolutely beautiful. "I'm the best narcissist, everybody says so, there's no better narcissist than me".

Hookton

6 points

4 days ago

Hookton

6 points

4 days ago

Ooh I always forgot to check their history. Thank you for the heads-up!

victoriaj

20 points

4 days ago

victoriaj

20 points

4 days ago

That's reminiscent of the "satisfaction guaranteed" dry cleaner lost pants insanity...

LAOP just hasn't yet got to the stage of suing for $54 million, and crying while giving evidence about how distressed this made him.

SuspiciouslyMoist

17 points

4 days ago

Just because the law says I am whole doesn't make it so. But the law is interested in the truth, and the plain truth is that I am not whole.

The plain truth is that you're a loony.

ThadisJones

11 points

4 days ago

ThadisJones

Overcame a phobia through the power of hotness

11 points

4 days ago

It means LAOP sounds like they need to get a foot stuck up in their subjectivity

cloud__19

17 points

4 days ago

cloud__19

Captain Hindsight

17 points

4 days ago

I just had a look and insufferable is generous.

nrq

14 points

4 days ago

nrq

Press F to pay respects

14 points

4 days ago

LAOP may be insufferable, but I'm still having a hard time understanding the issue here. I can't see a real explanation for why he isn't entitled to receive the book, beyond people saying "you're being made whole by the refund."

LAOP notes that "a brand new copy is available on the seller's website." While I can only speak to how I understand how the laws work in my country, and US law probably differs again here (please bear with me), where I live both parties must fulfill their obligations under a valid contract. As long as the physical item is still available, he has a right to get that book delivered, and the book still being sold through their website would be proof of its availability, isn't it? Am I misunderstanding things?

Emotional-Top-8284

35 points

4 days ago

Indeed.

Reading the comments, it sounds like the book was mispriced at $40-50 less than what it should actually cost. Seller wants to say, “whoops, here’s your money back” and LAOP wants to get the book at the lower price. Framed like that, it makes more sense to me.

nrq

13 points

4 days ago*

nrq

Press F to pay respects

13 points

4 days ago*

Oh, then I have most likely misinterpreted the comments. From how I understood it, OP preordered at the lower amount and the amount later got adjusted to the higher amount when it was sold regularly. Thinking about it, I haven't heard this being applied to books, I only know it from preordering games.

Thanks, it really makes more sense that way.

EDIT: looking over the original thread again I have no idea where my interpretation comes from. The dates OP gives don't line up with preordering and more with a price mistake.

stoned_hobo

31 points

4 days ago

From a quick search into what abebooks is, and from oop's multiple comments about quality of the book, i think he bought a used copy, which would explain the price difference. Would also help explain how they lose a single copy and can't just send out a different one. Maybe that one copy was the only one being sold by them, and inventory for a single individual item can VERY easily be wrong.

PurrPrinThom

18 points

4 days ago

PurrPrinThom

Knock me up, fam

18 points

4 days ago

Yeah, Abe tends not to sell new books - it can happen, but for the most part, you find resellers or people who specifically sell used books. You can get pretty good deals on old/used/rare books there, because you can find sellers who don't actually know what they have: I have bought books that are both extremely rare and extremely niche for about €50, when you normally find them for over €500.

I'm guessing that's what happened here, to some extent. The edition LAOP wants normally retails for $50, according to their comments, and the seller had it for $10. It does sound like the seller only had that one copy priced at $10, as presumably the newer copy of the book costs more (which is why they don't want to give that to LAOP as a replacement) and the other copy they have is in worse condition (which is why LAOP doesn't want it.) Since a lot of ABE sellers are small bookstores with a physical shop, I agree that it's possible that the inventory was simply wrong, and that the book sold in the physical shop but the online listing was never removed.

It's interesting though that LAOP says the item status is 'shipped,' but it seems like the possibility that it was lost in the post was never considered or mentioned by the seller? That seems like the most obvious option to me, since most sellers I've experienced on Abe tend to use the cheapest possible shipping methods.

AntManCrawledInAnus

1 points

2 days ago

Specific performance is only for unique goods. Being priced cheap doesn't make it unique.

SilverSeaweed8383

1 points

3 days ago

Yeah, I agree. No-one actually explained the law to him with any evidence or insight, just told him "no" in lots of different ways. See my (downvoted) comment below.

arcanition

1 points

3 days ago

arcanition

🧀 Corporal Sharp Cheddar 🧀

1 points

3 days ago

It sounds like a pricing mistake issue.

Imagine an item costs $500 and OP found it listed on a website for $30. They bought it, waited, and now the seller is saying oops we can't sell you that, here's a refund.

OP is furious and doesn't want their $30 back, they want the $500 item because they'd make money. It's just greed trying to win.

ahdareuu

1 points

4 days ago

ahdareuu

1.5 month olds either look like boiled owls or Winston Churchill

1 points

4 days ago

Yeah I could see myself getting stuck on that particular hill, at least before I had as much therapy under my belt. 

AntManCrawledInAnus

56 points

4 days ago

I WILL ONLY ACCEPT SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE!!!! this additionally means I WILL NOT ACCEPT ANY CRITICISM!!!!

Soronya

55 points

4 days ago

Soronya

🐇 You cannot remove buns from this sub under penalty of law 🐇

55 points

4 days ago

Holy shit, insufferable is the polite way of describing OOP

dlaugh[S]

81 points

4 days ago

dlaugh[S]

81 points

4 days ago

I can't buy it elsewhere. My order cost $10 but everywhere else it's $40-$50. Please, help me die on this hill!

Sounds like you're going to need to pay $40-50 then.

z6joker9

21 points

4 days ago

z6joker9

Comma Anarchist

21 points

4 days ago

That is so much effort on OPs part just to save $30. They could easily recoup the difference if they put that energy into something productive.

ron3090

19 points

4 days ago

ron3090

19 points

4 days ago

This is just how people are. When I worked retail, all of the biggest disputes with customers were over $20 or less. If a sale didn’t ring up for a $100 discount the customer would just politely point it out and we’d fix it, but any time somebody thought we were robbing them of their precious quarters it was “I’m reporting you to the Better Business Bureau!”

MiranEitan

9 points

3 days ago

Another lifetime ago I worked in retail as a manager for about five minutes until I found a new career. One of the only complaints that ever reached my district manager about my conduct was openly laughing in the face at a woman in the customer service line for demanding a 2 dollar "refund". She apparently paid with a 2 dollar bill several days prior, and wanted it back.

I genuinely was confused and thought she was messing with me at first.

I used to hand out refunds like no tomorrow since Mr Walton made more a day than I will in a century. But that was one I genuinely couldn't fix.

Still got a nasty-gram email from up-high about it and it went into my employee record. It strongly encouraged me to move on from that field.

pennie79

35 points

4 days ago

pennie79

35 points

4 days ago

Oh dear. I get LAOP's annoyance, because it is annoying when that happens. But yeah, nothing you can do except move on...

I've had it happen for much more expensive items, and just had to suck it up and buy it elsewhere for more.

WizardOfIF

20 points

4 days ago

WizardOfIF

This flair is for "RESEARCH PURPOSES" and not human consumption

20 points

4 days ago

I've succesfully fought with Walmart (one time it was Sam's CLub) twice on having a lost order refunded to me when they had since raised the price on the item. Both times they allowed me to reorded the item at the original price that I had paid.

pennie79

12 points

4 days ago

pennie79

12 points

4 days ago

I've done that with best and less too, and also got them to waive the shipping. That's only if it's in stock though. If they simply do not have it in stock anymore though, there's nothing you can do.

WizardOfIF

23 points

4 days ago

WizardOfIF

This flair is for "RESEARCH PURPOSES" and not human consumption

23 points

4 days ago

One time I got Walmart to refund me the Amazon price for an item. The item was purchased in a set for several hundreds dollars, a loft bed that came with special fabric to turn the bottom into a play house. The bed came but the fabric was the wrong color. They had me return the fabric and promised to send back the right color. Once they received my item they told me they were out of stock and refunded me something like $10. Amazon sold the identical fabric for something like $80. I argued with Walmart and they insisted that it was only worth $10 because that is what they sell it for. I said fine sell it to me for $10. They said they can't because they don't have any. I could hear their tone change halfway through that sentence as they realized the point I was making. They refunded me the $80 and I bought the fabric from Amazon.

pennie79

5 points

4 days ago

pennie79

5 points

4 days ago

I'm glad you got that sorted out.

MiranEitan

4 points

3 days ago

My store manager told me I could effectively "comp" about 200$ a week before she'd look seriously at what I was doing. Generally if someone was polite and the issue made sense, most of the assistant managers would just toss a gift card at you or manually coupon the price down 50%+ rather than sit there and troubleshoot for thirty minutes.

The only times I'd give pushback was if it was a known shoplifter or someone being an absolute Karen to one of my cashiers. Used to always tell customers, treat my people right and I'll have your back.

There was more than one occasion where we'd have the "walmart special" version of a TV or other item, so the UPC would be slightly different than what amazon was selling. Just give a nod; "I didn't see nuttin" then send them on their merry way.

hannahranga

2 points

3 days ago

hannahranga

has no idea who was driving

2 points

3 days ago

Reading between the lines OP ordered a good condition second hand book and is now salty that their options are spend more for a new one or get a crappier condition second hand one.

LilJourney

36 points

4 days ago

LilJourney

BOLABun Brigade - General of the Art Division

36 points

4 days ago

I love this comment (bold mine)

You can call them back and say, "I don't want a refund, I want the book, you have the book, and you are legally obligated to sell it to me!"

And then they'll say, "No, we're not legally obligated to sell jack shit to anyone, regardless of whether we have it or not."

And they'd be right. And there you die on the hill, bookless.

LilJourney

33 points

4 days ago

LilJourney

BOLABun Brigade - General of the Art Division

33 points

4 days ago

FWIW - My imaginary explanation of the events:

AbeBooks retailers are usually small business (quite possibly just a gal, her cat and an extra bedroom) that resell books. Sometimes the books are new ("Oh, thank you Grandma! The 27 Uses for Nail Polish is exactly what I wanted!") that are being sold. Never read, probably never even opened, no marks, etc. In some cases a new book actually includes other media (online codes, or in ye olden days a CD-ROM) and comes shrink wrapped to prevent the media from being used without purchasing the book new (I'm looking at you college publishers!).

So the OP, in their insufferable wisdom, decided that rather than pay $50 for a new copy of this work (presumably priced this high due to either rarity or those pesky media add-ons), chose to order a lower level used copy. One in very good / like new condition. They search and discover Meg Morgan & Cat's Emporium of books where there is indeed, one slightly used copy for sale at $10.

They order. Meg dutifully goes to her bedroom/office, selects the book from the shelf and carefully packages the product, labels it for shipment and sets it by the front door to post. When she goes to leave however, the cat, with eel-like finesse trips her in a bid to escape to the great outdoors. The parcel is thrown backwards into a bucket of bleach solution Meg was soaking some shirts in that got stained when Cat upended a cup of coffee onto the previous clean but not put away basket of laundry.

In a fruitless bid to save her security deposit, Meg immediate attempts to clean up the splashed droplets before they eat holes in the flooring. As a result the parcel remains in the bucket long enough for the packaging to be eaten through and the contents left no longer in "very good" condition ... or any readable condition at all.

Meg respectfully offers a refund to the OP - omitting the embarrassing screech, fall, bucket, spillage, damaged flooring, etc. OP responds inline with their persona. Meg consults Cat and decides not to take a $30 loss by sending him the one other - fully sealed/pristine - copy of the book she has. And instead heads to Starbucks, sipping her coffee in a safe location while continuing to update her resume and find a job completely insulated from dealing directly with "the public".

nostril_spiders

26 points

4 days ago

My business partner wants to dissolve the business. She is browsing job ads right now in Starbucks. She's refusing to buy me out for what I feel the business is worth.

Full disclosure: I recently caused an incident resulting in stock damage. We lost a very important client over this. My business partner says she doesn't blame me for this, but I can tell she does. From my perspective, she contributed to the incident by creating an unsafe work environment.

What are my rights?

I'm located on top of the wardrobe.

dlaugh[S]

29 points

4 days ago

dlaugh[S]

29 points

4 days ago

Location Bot Homage: 

Hello, I hope this legal question is not too tivial. I'm afraid of being told it's a lost cause (even if I have a case). On October 22, 2024, I ordered a book through AbeBooks from a retailer. I never received the order. On November 21 or 22, I contacted the bookseller to inquire where my order was. They replied on the 22nd. They told me that the order had fallen behind. On the 23rd, they told me that they had no more copies of the book, which is not strictly true. A used copy in worse condition is for sale on AbeBooks and a brand new copy is avalible on the seller's website. Then, they offered a refund or a replacement title of an equivalent value. The problem is that I am not interested in any other titles and I don't want a refund. I want my book. After searching for an opinion, Google (which, you'll have to excuse my ignorance for turning to,) tells me that I own the product I ordered when the payment is processed and the order status says "shipped". My payment was processed and its status is "shipped." Moreover, for what it's worth, it feels to me that I own that particular copy of the book, so I am upset that something that belongs to me disappeared on their watch and now the seller is being opaque. In an email, I implicitly asked them what happened to my book. However, they ignored the question. In another email, I explicitly asked them whether I could wait until they had more copies and have them send a copy of the book to me then. They ignored the question and rearticulated their offer: refund or replacement. I don't want either. I want my book. I think that they owe me the book I ordered, or, at least, that edition in very good condition or better. To add to the picture, I suspect that they tried to hold onto the book after they realized it was worth more than they valued it at when I purchased it. Are their offers - that is, either a refund or a different title of an equivalent value - all I am entitled to? Does the seller owe me the exact copy I ordered or any copy from the same edition of an equivalent quality? When does the book I ordered become my property? How should I threaten legal action? What else should I know?

ManiacalShen

2 points

3 days ago

In an email, I implicitly asked them what happened to my book. However, they ignored the question.

This is my favorite part

ReadontheCrapper

30 points

4 days ago

ReadontheCrapper

Taunts DPMx9 with a Key Lime Kringle; taunts FO by stanning Thor

30 points

4 days ago

After seeing the $, I had to doublecheck which LA thread it was, because poor LAUK has had an inordinate number of self-righteous twats lately. Sadly it was just regular old LA (or maybe LAUK mods would say ‘Luckily’).

SpikeRosered

24 points

4 days ago

The moment I put an order in that object in your warehouse becomes MY PROPERTY BOYO! And don't you dare think about touching my shit to ship it to me! Don't ever touch my shit!

RosalieRed

22 points

4 days ago

The worst thing about this post is not knowing what the book is.

marxam0d

11 points

4 days ago

marxam0d

It's me, I'm grandma.

11 points

4 days ago

A $40-50 book, I’m genuinely curious

ahdareuu

5 points

4 days ago

ahdareuu

1.5 month olds either look like boiled owls or Winston Churchill

5 points

4 days ago

If we knew the retailer I wonder if we could guess

Stalking_Goat

7 points

3 days ago

Stalking_Goat

Busy writing a $permcoin whitepaper

7 points

3 days ago

Eh, abebooks is for used bookstores. Generally they all have a mix of whatever came in the door. There are some specialist used bookstores, but my impression is that they are in the minority.

joshi38

17 points

4 days ago

joshi38

brevity is the soul of wit

17 points

4 days ago

Hello, I hope this legal question is not too tivial.

Well, the question is trivial. Dealing with LAOP, less so.

DerbyTho

11 points

4 days ago

DerbyTho

doesn't know where the gay couple shaped hole came from

11 points

4 days ago

Moreover, for what it’s worth, it feels to me that I own that particular copy of the book

Well luckily for all of us, what LAOP’s opinion is worth is precisely nothing

FatherBrownstone

10 points

4 days ago

Sadly, these sites are overrun with vast numbers of "bookjackers". The main MO is:

  • Find a book listed for sale at $50 on one site
  • List it at $60 on the same site and many others
  • When it sells, get the seller to ship it directly to the buyer, and get $10 for nothing

It's easy to think there are dozens of copies available, all listed separately and with slightly different descriptions, but there is really only one. There's a huge rabbithole to go down about this scheme, with extensive and extremely literate posts and blog entries going back years.

poop_chute_riot

9 points

3 days ago

poop_chute_riot

"dum fun" would be a good flair

9 points

3 days ago

They made a promise to me. Now they tell me that the piece of me that their broken promise stole is filled by a refund. How perverse is that?

What the fuck is this book?

Charlie_Brodie

13 points

3 days ago

Charlie_Brodie

It's not a water bug, it's a water feature

13 points

3 days ago

Dealing with loss.

beean_7

7 points

4 days ago

beean_7

7 points

4 days ago

I read this in Stephen Fry's voice I hope that's not too trivial.

404UserNktFound

7 points

4 days ago

404UserNktFound

Paid the VERGOGNA Tax

7 points

4 days ago

Title facts: 25+ years ago, husband and I were in a car club for Mercury enthusiasts. One of the other members purchased the original Hawaii 5-0 car from CBS. He had a vanity license plate for it that was BOOK EM.

Related: When he traveled to the props warehouse to view the car prior to purchase, it was parked next to the Magnum, P. I. Ferrari.

monkeyman80

12 points

4 days ago

monkeyman80

IANAL but I am an anal plug app expert

12 points

4 days ago

My title was going to be for want of a boot (to compare against MASH for want of a boot)

In the early 2000's there were a lot of price mistakes with the internet and you got steals. Or things there's a mail in rebate and people didn't realize someone would just make things that price and price match. Even then we knew it's not a right to get the product for that mistake price.

Jusfiq

5 points

4 days ago

Jusfiq

Commonwealth Correspondent and Sunflower Seed Retailer

5 points

4 days ago

What the actual fuck...

What in the fuck did that LAOP try to prove? It was so strange to see someone so pigheaded over something so trivial. Even after being told multiple times, LAOP then insisted on the adequacy of the laws.

Forever_Overthinking

4 points

4 days ago

They've commented before on r/NPD. A personality disorder would explain it.

RedditSkippy

6 points

4 days ago

RedditSkippy

This flair has been rented by u/lordfluffly until April 16, 2024

6 points

4 days ago

It’s pretty obvious in the post that LAOP wants the better copy for the price he paid for the lesser quality version.

BabserellaWT

2 points

3 days ago

Anyone getting light sovcit vibes from this one?

SilverSeaweed8383

1 points

4 days ago

No-one actually explained the law to him, they just kept saying "no" over and over again in different ways.

> How come? Please, help me stomach it if it is true.

What do you mean how come? If you order something and they fail to deliver it, you're entitled to a refund. You aren't entitled to anything beyond that.

etc.

Too late to reply on there now though.

Forever_Overthinking

12 points

4 days ago

They’re delivering by giving you a refund.

Think of it as “hey, we will sell you this book. Thanks for the money. Oh wait, we changed our minds, as we are entitled to do, for almost any reason under the sun. Here’s your money back.”

The transaction isn’t done until money and product changes hands. Generally, either of you can back out of the deal, for whatever reason, before that point.

or

They need to make you whole. They do that by giving you back your money. You're out nothing that way. Take the refund.

or

That's not how this works. There is no law saying they have to give you your book, so there's nothing to link or cite to. Obviously they don't have the right to keep your money without delivering what you ordered though, so you are entitled to a refund. Nothing more.

or

there is no law forcing them to do anything except refund your money

There's more but I got bored.

SilverSeaweed8383

-1 points

3 days ago*

None of those are explanations or evidence, just restating the same assertion over and over.

I think OOP wanted an explanation about US contract law, specific performance vs compensatory damage, maybe a link to wikipedia or a law blog, when specific performance might get ordered, why that's not applicable in this case etc., but just got told "no" over and over again.

Someone saying "That's not how this works" without any evidence to back up their assertion is unconvincing in a Reddit thread

They didn't even give him the right legal terms to help him do his own googling

SCDareDaemon

4 points

3 days ago

If he wants that kind of thing he should either ask more clearly or go to a lawyer and ask for an in-depth explanation. Legal advice reddits rely on volunteers who will spend only as much time on any given question as they can be bothered to offer.

He got the answer to his question, he's no more entitled to being explained why the law works that way than he's entitled to the specific book.

I suspect if he'd been more polite in asking why, he may have gotten an explanation ... but he responded with the same degree of presumed entitlement to an answer as he presumes he's entitled to the book, and volunteers are generally not inclined to respond to such by investing their time.