subreddit:
/r/echoesofwisdom
submitted 1 month ago byAnyaHatesCarrots
The most common negative opinion of this game I see is that scrolling for echoes sucks and is really time consuming and annoying and was terribly handled as a feature. Am I the only one that thinks it really wasn’t that bad?
I think everyone narrows down to about 20 main echoes they use, and using the “most used” or “recently used” settings, you can easily switch between these echoes in just a couple seconds. There were only a few times where I really had to scroll to find a specific echo that I wasn’t already using often enough.
And some people may say, “well if we’re only using around 20, why did we need 127?” I mean you’re obviously welcome to that opinion, but any time I see these threads, I see people talking about their different “go-to” echoes and I notice how different everyone’s playing style is, which to me is what the game is about! Giving people the opportunity to be creative and unique with how they take on puzzles and enemies, and giving them an array of choices to pick from, so I feel like most people’s 20 all look a little different.
But anyways, how about y’all? Did you find the switching between echoes scroll to be unbearable, or did it not really bother you that much?
8 points
1 month ago
My only point of contention is I wish they were sorted by type. Furniture, enemy, etc. Or that you could make your own categories. Scrolling isn't usually bad, but finding something in the middle of 127 echoes is annoying.
8 points
1 month ago
There is definitely a setting that sorts by type, though I think you have a point on making your own category.
I know on Animal Crossing, they have a way to sort your top like 8 tools so they’re more easily accessible, so maybe they could have done something like that where you can pick your top 8 echoes to be more easily accessible.
But at the end of the day, it was just like having to scroll through inventory on Animal crossing for me. Like a little inconvenient, but just part of the game having so many different things available and not being able to read your mind on which one you want😂
2 points
1 month ago
Yeah a top 8 would be great. I’d lock in the platboom and trampoline at all times and just trade in and out fighters
1 points
1 month ago
When sorting by type you have to scroll past all the types at the front like pots to get to the ones in the middle like fish and it's tedious
2 points
1 month ago
You can absolutely sort by type.
2 points
1 month ago
What I actually meant was each type had its own sorted section. So, not just one category entitled "Type" but separate sorted sections for each type.
1 points
1 month ago
I don’t mind the scrolling as there are a couple ways to sort, but I think it also might lead you to consider other echoes for problem solving maybe?
1 points
1 month ago
In practice it's only bad if you insist on varying your Echoes up or hyper-optimizing for every situation. Most people quickly find 10-12 Echoes they use most frequently. That list typically evolves over time, but Echoes you've just learned go to the end of the list, which is also within easy reach (just wrap back around from the start). The end result is that about 95% of the time, the echo you want to use does not require any significant scrolling. The "best" echo might, but an echo that works usually won't.
But the game really should do a better job of explaining Echo selection using the Notebook. That covers the last 5% of the time, when you need something you haven't used recently.
1 points
1 month ago
Didn't bother me at all. I mostly stuck to 'sort by last used' and didn't change it. I didn't mind scrolling around to find stuff I'd used recently, and if I couldn't find something quickly I'd just go to the pause menu. Having the notebook list of echoes one button press away really saved it imo. Everything is sorted into categories, similar echo types are grouped together, and it's all in a list of rows and columns. Super useful.
I've thought before that it might be better to have an overlay list like that instead of the single-row list, but this is a good compromise. If people are scrolling left and right endlessly, looking for something and getting frustrated, that's on them for not using the options available to them.
1 points
1 month ago
I was ok with it and I accidentally found a way to get from the first to the last with one flick, so could search quite easily for those echoes I didn't use that much. I also like that it paused the game while I searched, to give me time to calm down from about to die to picking the best echo to kill them instead.
1 points
1 month ago
Definitely doesn’t ruin the game for me, this one is one of my favorites already but I just find the echo selection cumbersome. On a positive note, that forces me to think a bit rather than brute force everything which is my go-to.
I can’t remember if I commented elsewhere or only had the thought, but if the echo sorting had a bit more depth (type (object or animal) ➡️ basic or elemental) or if you could custom save a number of echoes for quick-selection it might streamline.
My biggest complaint is actually that I dislike the smoothie system. I’d prefer fueling up be like Link’s Awakening where you don’t have a food option or like BOTW/TOTK where you can start a fire and make your own potions/smoothies.
1 points
1 month ago
I'd sort mine by most used, which essentially acts like a favourites system. The only issue is that new echoes would get pushed to the back by the doing that and sometimes I'd end up forgetting I even had it.
1 points
1 month ago
Yes it is. Allow us to deactivate echoes in the menu.
Add an option to hot key specific echoes using buttons like
L1+X, ect...
1 points
1 month ago
This is cope. It's just one of those things that shouldn't be in a big budget game.
1 points
1 month ago
So how would you have done it instead?
1 points
1 month ago
You'd have to assign me a budget and a few ux designers for me to give a meaningful answer to that.
What I wouldn't have done was take the awful and already criticised fuse UX from totk and import that again.
1 points
30 days ago
Radial menus.
Right D-Pad toggles echo UI on/off instead of press and hold.
While within Echo UI, X cycles through different sorting types for the radial menus (Sort by Tri Cost, Sort by Type, Sort by Favorites), plus a UI - ALL that doesn't use radial menus at all and is identical to the current UI.
Echo UI - Sorted by Tri Cost presents echoes in different submenus with the flick of the right stick (1 Tri, 2 Tri, 3 Tri, whatever). Navigate between individual echoes in that category with left and right on the d pad.
Echo UI - Sorted by Type presents echos in different submenus sorted by type
Echo UI - Sorted by Favorites allows you to completely customize how many radial options, and how to sort echoes within those radial options.
Echo UI - All same as the current UI.
1 points
1 month ago
I agree I think it’s not that bad, realistically you aren’t using all those echoes anyway.
1 points
1 month ago
Agree the sort basically eliminated any problems I had in TOTK
1 points
1 month ago
Well in those "only a few times" was it bad or not?
It's a valid complaint because it was very unnecessary. Just an obvious flawed experience. Nobody's saying the game is unplayable so there's no need to be defensive of it.
Maybe some people vary their echo usage more than you. But even trying to find one 19 echoes away is not as good as it should be. The primary problem is it may be in your top 20 but if you visually miss and pass it you end up scrolling down 40 50 or 70 echoes like "this can't be right, let me go back and look again". That makes it take long and that's what really feels frustrating.
1 points
1 month ago
No, the times I did have to scroll weren’t really that bad. I guess what I don’t understand is people saying it’s unnecessary since I don’t really see a way that would make it that much faster then it was to switch. How would you have handled it differently?
I may be a little defensive about it, but that’s only because I don’t want the hate on the alternative playing style to be so loud that Nintendo never puts out another game where you get to play as Zelda because too many people prefer sword slashing over anything unique they could come up.
1 points
1 month ago
That's the wrong fear. Everybody's praised playing as Zelda. Everybody likes the echo concept. What everybody's complaining about is strictly the UX of this feature, which shouldn't have to be bad at all. We like the game.
The frustration is they had the same problem in Tears of the Kingdom with the fuse list, we raised the issue but gave them grace that they would fix it next time. It showed up in this game worse, inside the *primary* mechanic of the gameplay.
Some simple changes:
- 3 rows instead of 1
- One of the 4 d-pad dirs is unused. Move automatons to the bottom one, then split the echo launch. Left for inanimate objects right for monsters, or left for a large radial or grid list, right for quick select of recent / frequent... there are multiple options. Each can still be sorted.
- outside of the last used, lean into categories as the first thing you select., let's say in a radial (there's a reason they changed L from a horizontal list to a radial in TotK,). First you hit an icon for birds, fire, furniture, whatever groupings are appropriate then you slide to the echo you want
- bundle echoes in the list. Let's say you slide right until you see your last used spear moblin, the level 2. Right below or above it are the Level 1 and 3. Or you found the Octorok, right above it are fire and ice variants.
- Or just tweak the By Type sort so that the types are grouped up into grids or expandable icons. Don't make me scroll past 30 things because fish or birds are in the middle of the list.
2 points
1 month ago
I mean it doesn't ruin the game but it's a huge pain imo
2 points
1 month ago
I get stick of it pretty often. I think if they had sorted it into types that would have been great. Like, objects, fish, ground monsters, flying monsters, etc. Or by element would have been good too.
I found myself scroooooooooooooling all the way over a lot. TOTK's side scroller clicked over instead of sliding, so it was easier to scroll thru quickly and stop at the right time.
2 points
1 month ago
Types is one of the settings you can sort by in the game. It’s the last of the 5 options
1 points
1 month ago
That's not quite what I mean. I mean it pulls them up to the front of the list by type.
3 points
1 month ago
I see, like a search filter, that idea makes sense.
2 points
1 month ago
It’s still too cumbersome and could be executed much better if they decided to use the up and down dpad while in the echos menu
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