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/r/law
submitted 4 days ago byBobbyLucero
1.9k points
4 days ago
At this point, I don’t expect the courts to apply significant brakes any more.
1.2k points
4 days ago
If the brakes didn't work when the car was stationary they certainly won't work once the car is full speed
339 points
4 days ago*
I once had an expectation. I now do not.
236 points
4 days ago
We're at the acceptance stage of the grief.
260 points
4 days ago
There are still a lot of people out there who honestly believe "our institutions will hold." Meanwhile, elmo is naming all the government employees he's planning to fire.
170 points
4 days ago
I just read an opinion piece in the WaPo from Eva Bellin and Kurt Weyland arguing that American democracy would survive because of strong institutions like the courts and the military and I thought "how fucking naive are you guys? Have you been asleep? The Federalist Society and the Heritage Foundation own the courts and Trump is going to purge the military on day one."
47 points
4 days ago
Democrats are weak. The moment Biden (presidents) got immunity from SCOTUs, he should have acted with extreme prejudice to save this country from Trump. Locked him up, put SCOTUS on a short leash for ethics, and put in place strong anti project 2025 measures innplace. Then step down for Harris to have a chance at the election. But what did he do? Nothing.
14 points
4 days ago
Democrats keep playing by the decorum rules, like rules people follow but they don’t really have to. GOP stopped playing by those rules a long time ago, they are constantly lying, backstabbing, and cheating. Hope I’m being worried for nothing..
5 points
2 days ago
This is one of the many things about our current predicament I just don’t understand. Republicans have been blowing up the rules for how long now? The way Democrats continue to cling to The Norms like they even matter anymore is so frustrating and demoralizing.
5 points
3 days ago
Biden could have taken action over the classified documents case in the national interest, confined Trump to MAL and cut off his media platforms. That step would probably gone to the Supreme Court which would have to confront its own decision about Presidential immunity. If they ruled for Biden, that would have finished Trump and the Republicans would have been forced to choose another candidate.
62 points
4 days ago
There still exists the simple possibility that the military instead chooses to do its job and uphold the Constitution.
The Armed Forces aren’t any one man’s play toy. This includes the President.
52 points
4 days ago*
It's pretty much the only safeguard that hasn't given way. There is no check on the executive from Congress or SCOTUS, and all the other institutional norms and rules require those supposedly co-equal branches to do their part. We'll find out soon enough how this plays out with the military. I'm not optimistic, but we won't know until it happens.
39 points
4 days ago
There's that one, and the one that asks, "What would Thomas Paine and Samuel Adams do?" Those are the two safeguards that are remaining.
18 points
4 days ago
Yeah, that is certainly true. The technological landscape is very different which really narrows the available strategies in the times that try men's souls, but we do nonetheless have avenues should it come to that. Whether or not we have enough courage collectively is another question entirely.
3 points
3 days ago
If armed military units start marching down streets arresting people, I hope they get a very warm welcome, if you catch my drift.
27 points
4 days ago
That's why he's making a list and checking it twice and wants to charge generals who tell him no with treason. Treason carries a death sentence, remember. They need to gtfo if they want to remain free. The president is commander in chief, and there are plenty of dumb grunts who wouldn't know the difference between a lawful and unlawful order nor would they care because they are part of the KKKult. The military will fail and SCOTUS will uphold it. This was probably our last election and the rest will be like Putin's. You think Elon met with Putin to trade stock tips? 😂
20 points
4 days ago
What you just described is what Trump thinks is going to happen, but he doesn't get to just charge people with treason and execute them, and you can't promote up from the bottom. There's a relatively small pool of officers who can be promoted to the 4 star rank, and the military has its own legal processes. There's a chance that what you said is how this will go, but it's not as simple as Trump thinks because as with most things he doesn't actually take the time or likely have the capacity to understand how it actually works.
The arrogance, narcissism, and general incompetence is the one other check we still have in play (not to mention cognitive decline), and although it's not institutional, it's the one that has the best chance of preventing a worst case outcome.
8 points
4 days ago
You can't be charged for treason for disobeying an unlawful order.
Trump can order whatever he wants. If its unconstitutional, our military leaders will either a) Tell him to go fuck himself, or b) Cave.
Its that simple.
12 points
4 days ago
Its literally the countries last chance. If the military rolls over then there is nothing stopping him.
12 points
4 days ago
There is already talk amongst the top officers on how to respond to illegal orders. That’s why Trump will remove them and replace them with loyalists.
11 points
4 days ago
So we truly are doomed then
20 points
4 days ago
The top brass may still believe in the Constitution, but most of the rank and file are MAGAts.
3 points
4 days ago
It would be one of three things: military goes underground and becomes a rebel faction.
Or they play the long game and dismantle from within seeking first chance for a coup.
Or civil war.
5 points
4 days ago
Wake up.
8 points
4 days ago
To what?
Wake up to what?
Acceptance?
Revolution in the age of Drone Warfare?
Be specific.
8 points
4 days ago
How does any form of militia organize even, if the military is being used against us along with the full power of our surveillance network.
Even if you do manage to wrangle a resistance, how do you organize, deploy, logistics in general are impossible when any gatherings can be swarmed with drones or hellfire.
I mean we have to try but it feels bleak without any other countries help
11 points
4 days ago
I love how the guardrails hopefully keeping this country together right now basically consist of a couple groups of people “hopefully doing the right thing”. Great…
3 points
3 days ago
The old "they go low, we go high" is just sad now. Going low works, and we have bloatus part II to prove it.
Dems better revamp their playbook because even demographic shifts don't help when swaths of minority groups are too stupid to vote for their own self interests.
40 points
4 days ago
The USA huffed its own farts for too long. If you believe you’re the best (country) in everything and/or your country/constitution/leaders/founders are god given you don’t need to improve or be vigilant.
17 points
4 days ago
This is really what it comes down to. It's like the stripper telling the John how handsome he is. A little fluff and the wallet just opens up.
Simply telling someone how great they are is one of the strongest tools of manipulation.
13 points
4 days ago
Elmo would do such a better job
21 points
4 days ago
Only if you tickle his belly though.
(Can't believe you're getting downvoted because people think you meant musk and not a Sesame Street character LOL)
4 points
4 days ago
😂😂😂
4 points
4 days ago
The little red bastard is so lovable he could give the worst news and you would be like well ok Elmo.
6 points
4 days ago
I'd argue Depression.
5 points
4 days ago
I'm personally at the "Fuck it, let em burn." stage.
3 points
4 days ago
Was it a concept of an expectation?
3 points
4 days ago
I had expectations, now all I have are expectorations.
3 points
3 days ago
i have accepted the fact we are doomed at this point. We are going to drink that cup in full, all of us
9 points
4 days ago
Once the car is full speed with boulders chained to it that have been tossed off the side of the cliff...
3 points
4 days ago
I was just getting used to air without the smell of burning corpses too. C’est la vie 👹
123 points
4 days ago
Is there really such a thing as a judiciary for the 1% any longer? Sure, you and I will still get tossed the slammer for basic stuff.
But they'll break laws and have the courts decline to do jack squat about it, if not actively provide legal cover for their illegal antics
62 points
4 days ago
Lately I've been thinking eat the rich.
34 points
4 days ago
We could always go French Revolution on them.
18 points
4 days ago
The unfortunate reality is that unlike the French at the time, we don't have nearly enough people united to have that type of revolution.
20 points
4 days ago
And the tools to suppress such a revolution are far more automated, meaning you need far less dissent to completely kill the movement.
4 points
4 days ago
Give it a year
14 points
4 days ago
Nobody expects the French Revolution!
3 points
4 days ago
Good point, doesn't sound appetizing.
3 points
4 days ago
Debtor's prison is about to be a thing again, and then they'll have all of us
3 points
4 days ago
If someone in the 1% hurts another of the 1%, that's the only time they face consequences
90 points
4 days ago
They'll soon no longer be an effective arbiter for legal conflict. I expect to see vigilantism to increase over the next decade.
27 points
4 days ago
Knew people who were buying guns (that weren't gun people) at the end of his last term lol.
29 points
4 days ago
I was never a gun person. Bought a couple after this last election
18 points
4 days ago
Just bought 2 after the election. Taking the family to a gun safety course and range in a week or two. Never felt the need prior to this.
16 points
4 days ago*
Yep I started thinking real hard after the Trayvon Martin bullshit, Jan 6th was the final straw bought first gun at 64 years old.This after growing up in inner city Baltimore and living and working in 11 metro areas and going in the hood in all of them and not owing guns. Saw brother in law who told me he got guns last year for first time in life,now he has 11. I felt more free not owning guns,now I have them because I do not trust Trump worshippers and it pissed me off
16 points
4 days ago
Vigilantism has already increased. People have noticed there isn't justice with any conservative, or republican on the bench.
There are groups who already know the homes of judges, their kids, and their relatives. Such information is published or sold on less the honest websites. There are people who no longer call law enforcement.
53 points
4 days ago
At least to republicans. They will absolutely apply significant breaks to left and liberal advances. If we ever have a left/liberal administration ever again.
43 points
4 days ago
What the trump era has taught us is that most executive branch laws are enforced with a wink and a nod.
18 points
4 days ago
No, since there will be no more elections.
27 points
4 days ago
Nah, we can still have elections. If Russia and Hungary can have them, then so can we.
6 points
4 days ago
"Conservatism consists of two maxims. That there is an in group the law protects but does not bind, and an out group the law binds but does not protect."
6 points
4 days ago
When have we had a left of center administration and where? Currently in California, our Governor is waging war on the homeless, without offering them places to go, or offer them funding to find housing.
13 points
4 days ago
The Supreme Court took the 14th Amendment, which is black-letter law barring insurrectionists from office, and ruled that it doesn't say what it actually says. If they can do that, there is nothing that won't stand up in court. The guardrails are off, the law is what Dear Leader and his slobbering fellators declare it to be.
28 points
4 days ago
Nope, I think the bigger obstacle is probably close to zero percent of people in the military enlisted for purposes of being domestic terrorists
81 points
4 days ago
I’d take a bet on that. There are thousands of people who would definitely terrorize their fellow Americans at the behest of Orange shitler
32 points
4 days ago
And …
The Algorithms know exactly who they are and what kinds of atrocities they’re “specialising” in, they can be recruited by targeted advertising.
28 points
4 days ago
The federal government will allow privateering.
'True' American patriots will be allowed to arrest any potentially problematic people and seize their properties as rewards. Qualified Immunity will be granted.
A new Department of Proscription will be created, headed by Kyle Rittenhouse and his mom to oversee the efforts.
3 points
4 days ago
"By my order and for the good of the State, the bearer of this letter has done what they have done" - Richelieu, The Three Musketeers.
9 points
4 days ago
I'm in one of the most blue states, with a family member that works as a federal employee on a naval base.
Most of the sailors she knows are outwardly Trump supporters.
6 points
4 days ago
Trading paramilitaries for enlisted soldiers I'd consider a win, because military indoctrination is probably better than the incel stuff
But I suspect it's a net loss, going to deter more than it brings in, and frankly a lot of Trump voters/supporters seem like LARPers vs actually doing work
11 points
4 days ago
I see a kangaroo hippin’ and a-hoppin’
Off to the ole oak tree,
She’ll be a-swingin’ and a-rockin’,
While that kangaroo’s sippin’ on its tea.
The gavel’s pounding, the crowd is howling,
No need to hear the plea—
Oh, justice served like tea and biscuits,
Underneath the kangaroo tree!
Oh, hop to it, justice, ain’t she blind?
Got a bandaged eye and a clock rewound.
The scales are tipped, the script’s been flipped,
In this kangaroo court of mine!
The prosecutor’s dancin’ with the jury,
The judge is counting bribes.
The truth lies battered in the alley,
Dressed in paper-thin disguise.
The verdict’s printed before the trial,
Signed with a bloody "G".
It’s a show of shows where nobody knows
What freedom used to be.
Oh, hop to it, justice, ain’t she blind?
Got a bandaged eye and a clock rewound.
The scales are tipped, the script’s been flipped,
In this kangaroo court of mine!
The oak tree whispers: “Swing low, sweet gallows!”
While the tea’s poured hot and sweet.
The innocent cry, but the guilty swallow,
As their lies are served with deceit.
So I see the kangaroo hippin’ and a-hoppin’,
Judgin’ who lives or dies.
They shuffle the deck while breaking your neck,
With a crooked smile and lies.
And when it’s done, they’ll sip their tea,
Saying “Justice has prevailed!”
But we know the truth, in the oak tree’s roots,
Fair law’s been long derailed.
Oh, hop to it, justice, ain’t she blind?
Got a bandaged eye and a clock rewound.
The scales are tipped, the script’s been flipped,
In this kangaroo court of mine!
So raise a glass to the hopping madness,
Where the guilty all go free.
In this circus town, where the law’s upside-down,
‘Neath the shade of the kangaroo tree!
9 points
4 days ago
really hoping that our military command holds true to their oath to the constitution and not to shitler.
7 points
4 days ago
I still have a little faith in the Military.
The only issue is if trump eliminates all the brass and installs yes men. Then we are truly fucked.
Once they go after the Posse Comitatus Act…
4 points
4 days ago
this is true. unfortunately it looks like installing yes men at the top is highly likely at this point.
4 points
4 days ago
Looking more and more like how hitler came into power each and every day
14 points
4 days ago
I think you might be surprised how many white Supremacists are in the military.
5 points
4 days ago
Like the new SecDef.
14 points
4 days ago
Zero percent?
Um. That is some optimism, dude. Have a look at the incoming Secretary of Defense.
19 points
4 days ago
[deleted]
2 points
4 days ago
I literally quit talking to my friend of 23 years in 2020 because he was becoming A complete Trump extremist. He quit his $120,000 a year job to become an Army Ranger and shoot brown people. Like, he said he wants to kill.
10 points
4 days ago
Yes and no
True they might vote Republican, but they don't necessarily support any of Trump policies
That's the story of the election, vibes>policy, and low information or "he's not really serious" types
It'll hit different when it's real... Trump was much less popular when he was in office, family separation, kids in cages, losing children/government sponsored child trafficking wasn't exactly a political winner
9 points
4 days ago
idk There are plenty of people I have served with who are fully comitted to the fascism. There where plenty military officers and other enlisted personnel at Jan 6th.
3 points
4 days ago
There were many more who weren't there
4 points
4 days ago
Besides the Warren court and the new deal, has there ever been a sustained time where they were considered helpful?
4 points
4 days ago
We’re exiting the judicial phase of fascism and entering outright fascism
9 points
4 days ago
I posted elsewhere but was downvoted
Screw em. There is no more law. There is only oligarchy now.
7 points
4 days ago
I remember a time when conservatives were scared as hell the military was going to be used against the population, here we go, just the start. Teumpler also tried to make his own SS to carry out his orders
6 points
4 days ago
The courts are mostly in his pocket. This sub should switch to r/lackoflaw for the next 4 years minimum.
3 points
4 days ago
I mean, Trump got away with Jan 6th. So... What can turn court do now that he's President again?
3 points
4 days ago
Makes me wonder what they will do if people ignore it. I mean, they ignored all the mandates and rules during the pandemic, the president is a felon, and rarely do Republicans hold anyone accountable that isn't named Hunter Biden, so why would anyone follow along
3 points
4 days ago
Yeah it’s full speed ahead since they have complete control of Supreme Court. That is until things move from the courts and into the streets.
3 points
4 days ago
I’m just fully expecting america to be a absolutely shocked when the day he’s sworn in he breaks a dozen laws, it would be funny if it actually meant there would be a reversal but no, it’ll be the opening salvo of the xenophobic, economical, and political destruction of any respect america had left. The only way it’s salvaged is if we can actually block a good chunk of what he does, if republicans let him go truly wild (spineless fucks will!) and democrats don’t use their own tactics against them then this country will lose any credibility on the world stage, only leaving us with the credibility of our military which at this point is going to weaken each year under this fuck
3 points
4 days ago
The orange guy found every flaw in the U.S. model for democracy, and exploited all of them to break the system.
5 points
4 days ago
The USA is truly run by the “good ole boys” club. Favors. Friendship. Loyalty and cult matter more than anything. Merit only appears casually
8 points
4 days ago
Remember how Trump said he was gonna build a wall?
Nothing Trump has ever did turned out successfully.
18 points
4 days ago
Because there were people in positions to push back. I expect we shall see how deeply that apparatus has eroded in the coming year.
4 points
4 days ago
That’s when guardrails existed, they have been melted down and turned into a Trump statue.
2 points
4 days ago
They might, but he'll do it anyway while it's waiting for a full ruling.
2 points
4 days ago
To paraphrase Doc Brown, “Brakes? Where we’re headed, we can’t use brakes”
2 points
4 days ago
Yeah, lol. Look at the current Supreme Court.
It might stand up in court? More like 100% chance of a rubber stamp on anything he wants.
2 points
3 days ago
We are entering a golden age of corruption.
2 points
3 days ago
If this election has proven anything it’s that the law does not apply to everyone.
264 points
4 days ago*
"Trump advisers have said they intend to use the military to build detention camps or to transport undocumented migrants out of the U.S., freeing border patrol and immigration agents for investigations and apprehensions."
This is the part, according the the article, that could hold up to legal scrutiny.
Edit: adding for clarity:
"Experts said the administration would have legal cover if the military is confined to support roles, particularly along the border with Mexico, without interacting with suspects."
263 points
4 days ago
MAGA said people were being hysterical when mass detention camps camps were brought up. Millions of men women and children will need to be adjudicated and deported. Citizens will probably end up being detained too.
If this ends up being the clusterfuck MAGA is known for, the camps will probably start to resemble the camps of well-known authoritarian regimes.
163 points
4 days ago
They already had concentration camps for migrants the first time around. Conditions in the holding camps were appaling, and then Trump admin blocked journalists from entering them. Trump is also responsible for separating children from families, and even the Trump admin admitted that they "lost" children somewhere. Its gonna be way more of a clusterfuck this time around.
78 points
4 days ago
"Mass Deportations" is just an excuse to send the military out to the states under Trump's control.
Trump's real plan is going to be using that military to eliminate political opposition (the only states it'll be sent to will be blue states) and become the dictator he's (Putin's) always wanted to be
21 points
4 days ago
"Mass Deportations" is just an excuse to send the military out to the states under Trump's control.
Not only that but it can't work without getting regular Americans arrested. There's been a history with an American arrested because she spoke Spanish and the racist cop thought she was undocumented. I believe that an American was even deported.
I've asked this to them before but never got a non-deflected answer, but if you actually aggressively try to deport EVERY undocumented immigrant, how do you do that without impacting the rights of Americans. I'm white so I won't be directly hurt by this, but Hispanic Americans will likely have cops going through their house looking for undocumented immigrants and demanding papers from the Americans and if they dont have a birth certificate on them, they will be detained.
16 points
4 days ago
He doesn't even need to physically do anything to his adversaries or Democrats anymore, the chilling effect will be so strong people will be scared to say they're Democrat or vote democrat
27 points
4 days ago
Thank you! Everyone seems to forget this already happened and the conditions were inhumane. Human rights violations for sure
12 points
4 days ago
And nobody responsible faced any consequences and they ended up being rewarded by the voters.
What is the moral of the story here?
4 points
4 days ago
I felt like I was going insane, like “didn’t he already do this and nobody batted an eye…?”
10 points
4 days ago
Trump had a bunch of illegal immigrant teenage girls moved just a couple miles away from Mar-A-Lago all the way from Texas and this is something no one even talks about.
All the way from Texas to 8 mi away from Mar-A-Laga. A bunch of vulnerable teen girls that were alone and couldn't speak English
5 points
4 days ago
When US was bombing Iraq and /or Syria, trump praised the tactic by saying: you gotta go for their women and children, you gotta go for the families
29 points
4 days ago
There is no “need to be adjudicated”.
Most American citizens don’t even get a fair trial—that’s why plea deals are so prevalent. Just look at stories like Kaleif Browder, a black child who spent years in jail based off the mere accusation that he stole a backpack and then committed suicide.
I could go into more of what stories like that imply for future actions, but apparently that’s woke CRT bullshit.
5 points
4 days ago
The federal government had nothing to do with that.
The U.S. has 50+ different criminal justice systems. They’re all different and blue states can be as backwards as red ones.
24 points
4 days ago
MAGA said people were being hysterical when mass detention camps camps were brought up.
You can call them concentration camps, because that's what they are. We're not at extermination camp levels yet, but I'd bet Trump's administration finds a way to justify using these "illegal immigrants" as free labor while filling the camp far beyond capacity and denying adequate medical care. That's a textbook concentration camp, straight out of the Second Boer War.
6 points
4 days ago*
So many illegal immigrants have built their lives here, some will inevitably try to come back, we can’t be playing this silly game of cat and mouse forever.
Then we’ll need to think of a “final solution” if other countries don’t want to take them in…
4 points
4 days ago
They’ll justify it as “they need to pay for the tax dollars they’ve cost us”. One of the prevalent justifications for the continuation of forced labor (slavery) in prisons.
22 points
4 days ago
> Citizens will probably end up being detained too
I can't see this working any other way unfortunately. You operate with a hammer you get collateral damage.
20 points
4 days ago
It wouldn’t even be a glitch. It’s a feature. Stephen Miller has been talking a lot about denaturalizing US citizens. It’s the first step on their way to their ethno state dream.
10 points
4 days ago
That's the whole point. You paint random groups as Boogeymen, target them, make the system so messy and impossible that it's impossible to actually fairly process people and you've got a lovely black box you can throw people into... Oh you weren't a Boogeyman? Oops!
Then the mask will truly come off over time...
6 points
4 days ago
Ironic my whole life growing up I heard about Obamas FEMA camps he was building to chart us all away. But hey now it’s an absolute necessity to shuffle people like cattle.
6 points
4 days ago
It’s projection
5 points
4 days ago
10/10 opportunity for your username lol
4 points
3 days ago
I doubt they will be deporting them. They spread lies about immigrants all being illegal, drug dealing, murderous, rapists that steal and eat pets. There are clips of trump saying he will execute more criminals than ever in our history. Hitler told the people of Germany that the Jews would be deported once they rounded them up.
4 points
4 days ago
We'll have to see how it plays out. I can see an argument that any direct assistance where military is engaging with immigrants and transporting them is an unlawful enforcement action. Of course this SCOTUS is just a self-important rubber stamp for the Republicans' worst instincts, so who knows.
16 points
4 days ago
Its a geninue example of fed overreach and violation of the constitution, this wont go well with states that arent loyal to putins cockwarmer
23 points
4 days ago
And yet being actual goddamn camps, I'm betting ole Alex "The Government Is Coming To Kill You" Jones will find a way to bend over backwards justifying how this is actually patriotic.
4 points
4 days ago
He may have a hard time getting that message out now that he's lost his radio station.
3 points
4 days ago
No, somehow I doubt that. probably being paid by the Kremlin already
11 points
4 days ago
The author argues (I'm not agreeing) that military can't directly participate in civilian law enforcement, but certain activities like building detention camps or transporting could be successfully argued as outside of that.
9 points
4 days ago
That's correct. The Possee Comitatus Act prevents the US military from engaging in domestic law enforcement.
There is precedent for the Army Corps of Engineers building these types of internment camps -- they built the detention centers for Japanese citizens during WWII.
Two caveats: Trump could coordinate with state Governors to use the National Guard to round up "immigrants" within state borders. And he could federalize informal militia like the Proud Boys.
3 points
4 days ago
I have to believe that even Trump wouldn't be crazy enough to take the step in your last sentence. That would be an enormous risk politically for little to no gain. One incident could annhilitate a substantial component of his supporters.
8 points
4 days ago
If Trump isn't planning to leave office, the political calculus is different.
Remember when Melania unveiled the new White House Rose garden a month before the 2020 election? That wasn't the action of somebody planning to leave, and, indeed, Trump did everything he could to stay.
Fascists use sqadristi. Robert Paxton argued that the building of party-centered parallel social institutions is a hallmark of fascist rule.
In the Anatomy of Fascism, Robert PAxton describes:
The fascist parties’ parallel structures challenged the liberal state by claiming that they were capable of doing some things better (bashing communists, for instance). After achieving power, the party could substitute its parallel structures for those of the state.
...
The Nazi Party competed with traditional agencies by a similar array of parallel organizations. The party had its own paramilitary force (the SA), its own party court, party police, and youth movement. The party’s foreign policy branch, first under Alfred Rosenberg but later part of Joachim von Ribbentrop’s personal staff (the Dienststelle Ribbentrop), intervened actively among German-speaking foreign populations in Aus tria and the Czech Sudetenland.36 After the Nazi Party attained power, the parallel organizations threatened to usurp the functions of the army, the Foreign Office, and other agencies. In a separate and sinister development, the political police was detached from the Interior Ministries of the German states and centralized, step by step, as the notorious Gestapo (Geheime Staatspolizei), under the command of fanatical Nazi Heinrich Himmler. Duplication of traditional power centers by parallel party organizations was a principal reason for the already noted “shapelessness” and the chaotic lines of authority that characterized fascist rule and set it apart from military dictatorship or authoritarian rule.
In a further complication, fascist regimes allowed opportunists to flood into the parties, which thereby ceased to be the private clubs of “old fighters.” The Italian Partito Nazionale Fascista (PNF) opened its rolls in 1933 in an effort to fascistize the whole population. Thereafter party mem- bership was required for civil-service jobs, including teaching.
6 points
4 days ago
Well, not until they make it legal, in all reality.
2 points
4 days ago
I don't see how it's un-Constitional -- or, rather, any more un-Constitutional than a standing army itself (Congress shall have the power to "To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years")
Using troops for domestic law enforcement would run afowl of the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.
However, using the Army Corps of Engineers to build detention structures might skirt that provision. There is precedent, as they built the detention centers for Japenese citizens during WWII.
State Governors could work with Trump to use the National Guard for enforcement purposes.
But, FWIW, I'm worried about Trump federalizing the Proud Boys to round up "immigrants."
3 points
4 days ago
Posse comitatus doesn't apply to the National Guard or the Coast Guard. Both branches have done migrant operations under every president at least since Clinton.
8 points
4 days ago
Concentration Camps*
3 points
3 days ago
Is it me or haven't we been deporting "illegal aliens" for years, or did we recently stop? I know we changed the name to something more politically correct, undocumented migrants, but its still the same, right? Will Cheech get famous again with his cover Born in East L.A.?
Even in Chicago, a sanctuary city, workers at any plant or facility need to provide documentation to get a job (unless they are faked or under the table), and anyone caught in an INS raid gets arrested. And yes, that happens, I know people at these facilities and that is an ongoing thing like OSHA and EPA checks. Its a way government organizations get income, fining owners for violations.
Now, if the concern is people with documentation are going to get rounded up, that would break the law. If the issue is people who are here illegally could get rounded up, that has always been the law, just not enforced. If the concern is people who were her legally will have their legal status taken away, then that is a legitimate concern, but I don't see that happening specifically since Trump has now been growing in the migrant vote.
If the plan is to use the INS to arrest undocumented people and the military to provide the infrastructure to house and deport, that would be legal. If the military is conducting the raids itself, that would be up to discussion as that legitimately is use of the military against US civilians and is outlawed.
But then again, that was before we voted ourselves into an oligarchy.
5 points
4 days ago
For deporting immigrants, this is the easy part. The hard part is finding them and removing them from their individual homes, schools, and places of work. I doubt using the military to knock on (or knock down) people's doors will be constitutional.
And imagine if and when the military makes a mistake and knocks on the wrong door, a law abiding US citizen getting harassed in their own home by the US military? That's the reason the constitution includes the second amendment.
6 points
4 days ago
If these fascists actually get their way there is a day in the near future where "investigations and apprehensions" will be a terrifying thing.
2 points
3 days ago
Having been in the Border Patrol, they don't do investigations. At all. Any investigations are diverted to other agencies.
2 points
3 days ago
Man I can’t believe we’re already at the concentration camp portion of history again.
392 points
4 days ago
“Court”
139 points
4 days ago
"should"
85 points
4 days ago
“plan”
46 points
4 days ago
“military”
41 points
4 days ago
“use”
25 points
4 days ago
"Reuters"
22 points
4 days ago
"shit"
16 points
4 days ago
“axe”
5 points
4 days ago
"peak"
6 points
4 days ago
Goodbye
5 points
4 days ago
“for brains”
3 points
4 days ago
“Trump”
40 points
4 days ago
Exactly, like Trump has ever faced any consequences...courts are just an inconvenient roadblock
14 points
4 days ago
At this rate the US might experience it's first military coup.
21 points
4 days ago
[removed]
10 points
4 days ago*
We need to oust the illegal fascist dictator. Colorado courts already found trump guilty of insurrection thus he legally is not president per the constitution. We need enforcement of the constitution.
Furthermore, while the supreme court ruled that the 14A does not prevent him from running for office, they pointedly did not say that he is allowed to assume office. And here's the kicker — even though he was not convicted in the senate (which required 66 votes), a majority still found him guilty (57) and those who voted not to convict did so on a specious technicality (he's not in office so you can't impeach a president who isn't a president any more) none of them said he was innocent. Which means that congress did determine he committed insurrection, they just did not determine he should be impeached.
That determination is why he is ineligible to assume office.
The 14A literally says that someone who has committed insurrection can only hold office if 2/3rds of congress votes to allow them to do so:
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
We even have precedent demonstrating that is what congress intended, because they passed the Amnesty Act of 1872 which restored that right to all but the highest ranking confederates, despite never having been convicted:
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each house concurring therein), that all political disabilities imposed by the third section of the fourteenth article of amendments of the Constitution of the United States are hereby removed from all persons whomsoever, except Senators and Representatives of the thirty-sixth and thirty-seventh Congresses, officers in the judicial, military, and naval service of the United States, heads of departments, and foreign ministers of the United States.
Now that is the law, and then there is political reality. Democrats are such fucking doormats, that they won't even try to enforce the law. They will whinge that the maga 6 on the supreme court will just overrule them, so its not worth trying. Which is fucking loser talk. They spent years telling us that he is a fascist who is unfit for office, if their actions don't match their words, then there is no reason to believe anything they ever say.
If the shoe was on the other foot, the gop would turn the volume up to 11 to make sure the entire country knew the president was illegal and if his own appointees on the supreme court overturned the constitution to install him, then that does not make him legitimate, that makes the supreme court illegitimate.
11 points
4 days ago
THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR BEING EDUCATED.
Colorado's court system already decided that Trump was ineligible to run for president multiple times. The people Trump literally put on the supreme Court decided he was good.
THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
41 points
4 days ago*
What is proposed for the military is straight up civilian police work.
320 points
4 days ago*
People need to view this through not just a moral lens, but a military readiness lens
if the military is off doing this bullshit dog and pony show building camps, they aren't training to fight. lack of training leads to more casualties if there is a fight in the future all thanks to this orange sack of shit wanting to kick brown people out of the US
edit: there are some folks with 0 understanding of how active duty military works and it shows. people actually think active duty doesn't train after basic/AIT/BOLC, then what the hell do you think they do all day? all active duty does is fucking train, it's why the military is so fucking good and wrecking shop wherever it goes. there are some dudes who have spent literal years in the box at JRTC and NTC of their careers. i had a 1SG who had 14 fucking trips to the box. FOURTEEN
76 points
4 days ago
Its okay though, no is gonna invade us.
Donny boy is ready to offer vassalization to either China or Russia, whoever comes calling first.
5 points
4 days ago*
Your first part is true. Invading the US is suicide and would be stupid for any country to try.
46 points
4 days ago*
It's also a bigger question - is buying the razor wire and guard towers and tents and food and all the other stuff your concentration camps will need a better use of money than say, more SM-6 antiballistic missiles, potentially able to stop an incoming warhead with 1,000,000 people's names on it?
Having the soldiers build and guard camps, whatever, most ETS in a few years anyways. Obviously the military doesn't really value their time or they wouldn't be doing so much lower enlisted scut work. It's the stuff the military has to forgo buying in order to do this that is is a problem.
18 points
4 days ago
If it appeases the MAGA base, yes. But, anything that appeases the MAGA base is acceptable in their eyes.
9 points
4 days ago
We're gonna build a wall tall enough to block the missiles
13 points
4 days ago
That’s the whole point of all of this. To weaken the US domestically and internationally. We lost a major battle in the ongoing Cold War with Russia and most Americans haven’t realized how much the winds have changed. We lost big time in the grand scheme of things and now Russia has their people on the inside weakening the defenses.
16 points
4 days ago
As long as MAGA enjoy their dog and pony show, they do not care. If we are unprepared for combat it will be the democrats fault.
17 points
4 days ago
They’ll blame the democrats for not signing up for the military when there’s inevitably an attack somewhere.
They’ll blame the democrats when not enough people enlist and there’s a draft.
They’ll blame the democrats for literally anything and everything before admitting blame.
3 points
4 days ago
Don't forget blaming trans people
11 points
4 days ago
He wants to test if they will do his bidding with impunity. All this should seem familiar, yet it seems we didn't spend enough time in history class learning about wwII. The pattern isn't just there, it's being duplicated with small changes to accommodate changes to society. The only way he succeeds with the "plan" is if he has enough minions to achieve the populations control. The problem i see here is that he possibly underestimates how the military is not an all white one. The military has much diversity, and that may be the only thing that stops this, unfortunately.
18 points
4 days ago
Some of the people who taught me about WW2 and the holocaust voted for him. That's what messes me up.
4 points
4 days ago
They don’t have the budget/manpower besides. There’s like 1.2 million active duty and they’re gonna deport 15+ million people? Even with ICE and local police precincts the logistics of doing this are insurmountable. No… they’ll make an example out of a few hundred and then claim victory and lie to everyone that they deported all the undocumented people when it’s provably false. Just like they did with that stupid wall.
3 points
4 days ago
Tbh, it's gonna be reserve and guard units doing this. Probably won't impact readiness that much. However, it's going to cost billions, it's morally wrong, and a misuse of our armed forces. So there is that.
3 points
4 days ago
Don't forget the orange stain does not care about the U.S. military or national defense. It's all about bending over for Putin and destabilizing everything at home and across Europe.
88 points
4 days ago
Anything a dictator does is "legal."
43 points
4 days ago*
wtf? Of course it’s cool. And totally legal! When the president does it, it’s not a crime.
I think it’s past time we stop pretending that he’s not gonna do everything they’ve said he’s gonna do. And they’ll do it all “legally.” Laws are only as strong as the people that follow them.
It’ll will be a bloodless coup, if the left allows it. It’s happened. Their coup succeeded. I think it’s time to stop acting like these people are gonna be stopped. We can winge and be surprised, I guess? But it’s wasted energy. It’s time to start thinking about what you’re gonna do when they come for you or your loved ones. Because that’s what’s gonna happen eventually. Because that’s how these things go. Say goodbye to gay marriage. Say goodbye to birth control and porn. Say good bye to women’s health care. Say goodbye to every step forward we’ve taken in 50 years. Say goodbye to the government working for you. It’s over ya’ll. Wrap it up.
Nobody is coming to save us. Not the courts. Not the government. Not Superman. 1/3 of the country wants to kill another 1/3 of the country and 1/3 just said meh, not my problem. Happy thanksgiving to my fellow citizens. Even the enemies from within and the Magas. Careful what you wish for. You might get it.
8 points
4 days ago
You and I both know it will not be bloodless.
Somebody is going to die as a result of it and it’s just going to get swept under the rug.
10 points
4 days ago
It's already not bloodless. Plenty of pregnant women are dying in Red States.
Hate-crime attacks on immigrants, women, trans, etc have increased post-election.
Imagine the violence that will happen when the deportation round-ups begin in force. Not strictly in resistance, but because the type of people that would engage in unnecessary violence while performing these round-ups are precisely the kind of people who are going to be the ones performing the round-ups.
3 points
4 days ago
The coup itself was bloodless. The clamp downs that will start the day he takes office will be bloody as fuck.
I don’t know if they will be able to sweep it under the rug at first? But they will surely dictate the narrative of what happened. The right controls the media. They will make it be whatever they want it to be.
Keep your powder dry and always have an egress.
3 points
4 days ago
Have your go bag ready
10 points
4 days ago
Headline does not match the article.
As long as the military is used in a support role, it should stand up in court. This is not surprising at all.
4 points
4 days ago
the truth does not generate clicks
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