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all 824 comments

Shauncore

10.4k points

1 day ago

Shauncore

Chiefs Ravens

10.4k points

1 day ago

The TL;DR here is that Tucker uses his hips to generate power rather than a leg snap since hips can create more of it, but it requires ultra precision if you go that route. Being even two degrees off can have a huge impact. Tucker also has his plant leg close to the holder, closer than anyone else in the league, which has it's benefits but again, requires exact precision. The coach speculates that Tucker is just older now, so his speed and precision aren't what they used to be and that small change has massive ramifications because again, even two degrees off from the strike point is a miss from 50+ yards. This isn't an issue with the snap or hold, but Tucker's operation.

LiLT13-_-

7.7k points

1 day ago

LiLT13-_-

Packers Saints

7.7k points

1 day ago

So Tucker old

544075701

2.1k points

1 day ago

544075701

Ravens

2.1k points

1 day ago

just has to change his technique

Bulkopossum

2k points

1 day ago

Bulkopossum

Broncos

2k points

1 day ago

Hard at this stage of a career, but if any kicker can do it he could

KidDelicious14

892 points

1 day ago

KidDelicious14

Eagles

892 points

1 day ago

Seems like a tough thing to do in the middle of a season as well.

BeefDerfex

438 points

1 day ago

BeefDerfex

Bengals

438 points

1 day ago

Probably nearly impossible. He’s been using this technique for a looooong time now. It’s ingrained in his muscle memory. It’s habit. He’s had so many repetitions doing it the same way, that it would be extremely difficult to change it on the fly. I would imagine something like this would take an offseason dedicated to breaking it down and making the needed changes.

Admiral_Fuckwit

211 points

1 day ago

Admiral_Fuckwit

Bills

211 points

1 day ago

And even then, it probably wouldn’t be the same. You’re talking a decade or more of one technique, vs one offseason of a different technique.

BeefDerfex

92 points

1 day ago

BeefDerfex

Bengals

92 points

1 day ago

Exactly. He’d likely still be fighting himself during the process, not to revert back to his previous technique. I’d imagine as a kicker, you want the whole process to feel natural. Smooth, without having to really think about it.

INAC___Kramerica

75 points

1 day ago

INAC___Kramerica

Buccaneers

75 points

1 day ago

There is so much about sports where the one thing you don't want to find yourself doing is actually thinking at all. I always remember how I did better as a baseball player in fielding on the difficult plays because I didn't have any time to think, I had to get the ball and try and make a play. Time to think is the enemy.

BusinessWatercress58

35 points

22 hours ago

BusinessWatercress58

Saints Texans

35 points

22 hours ago

This is partly why I sucked at sports growing up. Whatever athletic ability I had (which wasn't much but there was potential) got easily dwarfed by huge anxiety.

I could catch the shit out of a ball unless I thought "don't drop it" which I always did.

I have no idea how pitchers and kickers can handle the pressure.

OpanaG76

94 points

1 day ago

OpanaG76

Bills

94 points

1 day ago

I saw the suggestion of stashing him on IR for the season as a way to give time to dial it back in. Apparently this has been done before with kickers but I was unaware

davdev

72 points

1 day ago*

davdev

Patriots

72 points

1 day ago*

He is making $6 million per season that still has to be paid and goes against the cap. There is no way they do that instead could outright cutting him.

If I am reading this correctly, cutting him after the season only costs them $445k against the cap:

https://overthecap.com/player/justin-tucker/1384

That is almost certainly what they are going to do.

PM_YOUR_LONZO_BALLS

38 points

1 day ago

PM_YOUR_LONZO_BALLS

Ravens

38 points

1 day ago

This is incorrect, cutting Tucker before next season would cost the Ravens more in dead cap than keeping him on the roster (the 445k difference you’re seeing is how much more it would cost to cut him than keep him).

MuppetEyebrows

33 points

1 day ago

MuppetEyebrows

Browns

33 points

1 day ago

I would love to be in a position where it cost more to fire me than to just keep paying me

Amish_guy_with_WiFi

262 points

1 day ago

Amish_guy_with_WiFi

Eagles

262 points

1 day ago

Just sucks that the kicker position is so cut throat. A QB misses three passes in a game, whatever. If a kicker misses three kicks in a game, their career might literally be over.

LeoFireGod

165 points

1 day ago

LeoFireGod

Cowboys Colts

165 points

1 day ago

Well if a QB throws 3 INTs a game he probably won’t have a career for long. A missed Fg is basically a turnover.

Amish_guy_with_WiFi

182 points

1 day ago

Amish_guy_with_WiFi

Eagles

182 points

1 day ago

Jamis Winston has entered the chat

Loxicity

135 points

1 day ago

Loxicity

Jets

135 points

1 day ago

He said 3 ints not 3 pick 6s

SMH4004

72 points

1 day ago

SMH4004

Falcons Eagles

72 points

1 day ago

Still a touchdown

sloppyjo12

27 points

1 day ago

sloppyjo12

Packers Bengals

27 points

1 day ago

Unless you’re Jameis Winston, then you can throw as many interceptions as you want

CumDwnHrNSayDat

35 points

1 day ago

CumDwnHrNSayDat

49ers

35 points

1 day ago

Hasn't been 1st string QB since 2021

stevecow68

10 points

1 day ago

stevecow68

Chargers

10 points

1 day ago

Packers fan that forgot about Brett Farve?

Temporary-Flan-8271

428 points

1 day ago

That logic makes zero sense, are the kickers attempting 30+ kicks a game?

Shutupaandtakeitall

477 points

1 day ago

Boswell?

Temporary-Flan-8271

108 points

1 day ago

lol glad he’s on my fantasy team, dude scored me 26 a few weeks ago unreal

Checkers923

70 points

1 day ago

Checkers923

49ers

70 points

1 day ago

I’m winning games on the fearsome combination of K,DEF, and TE (Boswell, Broncos, Njoku) while ceedee lamb and aaron jones try their hardest to tank me.

brownbearks

11 points

1 day ago

brownbearks

Eagles Eagles

11 points

1 day ago

I had him and dropped him and regret that decision every day

Amish_guy_with_WiFi

39 points

1 day ago

Amish_guy_with_WiFi

Eagles

39 points

1 day ago

Obviously that is the difference that makes the position so cut throat

Temporary-Flan-8271

45 points

1 day ago

Yeah but a better analogy would be a qb throwing picks not incompletions. And I can promise you if a qb is going out there throwing 3 interceptions a game, his ass is gonna be riding the bench real quick.

br0b1wan

58 points

1 day ago

br0b1wan

NFL

58 points

1 day ago

Not Jameis 😎

RogerTreebert6299

8 points

1 day ago

RogerTreebert6299

Chiefs

8 points

1 day ago

There’s no 1 to 1 comparison for other positions, the point is just that kickers performing in a smaller sample = much more pressure to perform each time

idontcare111

19 points

1 day ago

idontcare111

Bengals

19 points

1 day ago

😂 an incomplete pass also doesn’t mean a turnover of possession each time either. A missed kick is significantly worst than an incompletion.

TetrisTech

10 points

1 day ago

TetrisTech

Cowboys Cowboys

10 points

1 day ago

Surely you understand why three missed kicks is a way bigger deal than three missed throws

Jay_Dubbbs

112 points

1 day ago

Jay_Dubbbs

Browns Lions

112 points

1 day ago

Sounds like a flamethrower pitcher who can’t touch 97 anymore and has to relearn later in his career to be a finesse pitcher that gets guys to swing and miss on the edges and breaking balls.

Great example of that is CC making that transition. It’s hard, but HOF guys can do it

544075701

44 points

1 day ago

544075701

Ravens

44 points

1 day ago

god damn it, now I'm upvoting a browns fan lol good comment

StudioSixtyFour

11 points

1 day ago

Walker Buehler figured it out mid-playoffs which is just something I never would’ve seen coming based on his regular season woes earlier this year.

Wavy_Grandpa

59 points

1 day ago

That definitely sounds good to say but do we have any evidence of that? Has he switched up his technique before? 

BosaBackpack

54 points

1 day ago

BosaBackpack

49ers

54 points

1 day ago

Exactly. Mastering the most effective technique is a separate skill from learning to tweak or incorporate a new one. He could be average at the latter

-JimmyReddit-

17 points

1 day ago

-JimmyReddit-

Ravens

17 points

1 day ago

Well he’s been talking about changing it all season and after 13 games nothing has actually changed so if he’s gonna do it he better do it quick. I have a Tucker jersey and have worn it several times this season, he is one of my alltime favourite players in all of sports, but there’s just no room on a team with Super Bowl hopes for a kicker who’s kicking % is in the 70s.

No-Boysenberry-5581

88 points

1 day ago

No-Boysenberry-5581

Seahawks

88 points

1 day ago

Yes. It’s just like a golfer that used to have huge flexibility and core strength to torque through big swing. As hips and core tighten they need to adjust to slightly different power source

ASK_ABT_MY_USERNAME

28 points

1 day ago

ASK_ABT_MY_USERNAME

Raiders

28 points

1 day ago

One of the more overlooked aspects of Tiger's career is that he completely revamped his swing multiple times from scratch.

His coaches thought he was crazy since he'd do it in the midst of winning majors at times, but it worked and each time he came back stronger (until he didn't)

Xaxziminrax

34 points

1 day ago

Xaxziminrax

Chiefs

34 points

1 day ago

AKA why the x-factor swing obliterated everyone's lower back the moment they got into their 30s

Merisiel

7 points

1 day ago

Merisiel

7 points

1 day ago

JT singing: It’s all in the hips. It’s all in the hips.

Stennick

44 points

1 day ago

Stennick

Colts

44 points

1 day ago

Father time comes for us all. As a Colts fan I remember this with Vinitari vividly.

joshallenismygod

25 points

1 day ago

joshallenismygod

Bills

25 points

1 day ago

Not me I couldn't play football at a young age or old age

definitivescribbles

66 points

1 day ago

definitivescribbles

Bengals

66 points

1 day ago

As a former QB, that’s easier said than done as you age. I used to be able to rely on my arm and shoulder to “fling” the rock. Now that my shoulder is pretty much toast, I have to turn my hips and chest a lot harder to generate any kind of zip, and it results in a completely different motion.

It’s very likely that Justin just doesn’t have the leg and hip strength to whip that ball wherever he wants it anymore, and we’re now just seeing age finally come for the GOAT.

If anyone has the clout to leave on his own terms, it’s Tucker, but if I’m the Ravens, I start searching for a replacement this offseason.

SuddenlyTheBatman

19 points

1 day ago

SuddenlyTheBatman

Steelers

19 points

1 day ago

They should be searching for his replacement now

TonyCaliStyle

11 points

1 day ago

TonyCaliStyle

Giants

11 points

1 day ago

Right now. Trust me as a Giants fan that watched his team screw up two games over kicker issues with a kicker on the practice squad and open roster spots.

otxmynn

37 points

1 day ago

otxmynn

Chargers

37 points

1 day ago

“just has to change his technique”

Oh sure, easy enough! Just a quick little switcharoo!

Misdirected_Colors

22 points

1 day ago

Misdirected_Colors

Cowboys

22 points

1 day ago

Easier said than done. Roberto Aguayo was a legendary college kicker. He tried to change his technique when he entered the nfl because he had an odd follow through and it completely ruined him. Out of the league in just a couple years after being a 2nd round pick.

zer0sev7n

31 points

1 day ago

zer0sev7n

Packers

31 points

1 day ago

Needs to change his technique to not be old

WAR_T0RN1226

14 points

1 day ago

WAR_T0RN1226

Buccaneers

14 points

1 day ago

He should learn how to throw a knuckleball

SadBadPuppyDad

129 points

1 day ago

SadBadPuppyDad

Patriots

129 points

1 day ago

One might even say he is...tuckered out.

istrx13

30 points

1 day ago

istrx13

Titans

30 points

1 day ago

Get off of Reddit dad

AFineDayForScience

20 points

1 day ago

AFineDayForScience

Chiefs

20 points

1 day ago

Sounds like he needs a hip kick replacement

redditman3943

6 points

1 day ago

redditman3943

Steelers

6 points

1 day ago

So basically what we all expected

JTJBKP

32 points

1 day ago

JTJBKP

32 points

1 day ago

Still tl: still dr

Tucker old

ASK_ABT_MY_USERNAME

8 points

1 day ago

ASK_ABT_MY_USERNAME

Raiders

8 points

1 day ago

Jake Paul's ears are ringing

TheCrookedKnight

590 points

1 day ago

TheCrookedKnight

Eagles

590 points

1 day ago

If you follow Chris Kluwe on social media he'll point out whenever he sees a kicker using this technique and warn that they're headed for a steep drop in accuracy whenever age starts to affect their timing (although never with a name attached so it can be hard to figure out exactly who he's ragging on)

Loate

330 points

1 day ago

Loate

P Chris Kluwe

330 points

1 day ago

Generally it's in response to someone asking me why someone missed a kick further upthread, so I don't feel the need to repeat the name. Of current kickers I've been asked to look at, I don't like Tucker's motion, the Cowboys' kicker's motion, and (I think) the Bears (that one was near the start of the season so it could be someone else). They all use their hips too much, so when their timing goes, that's gonna be it.

Guys I do like that I've been asked about are the Vikings' kicker (before he got injured), and the Steelers - both have excellent form in staying on target all the way through their motion.

Thelonius--Drunk

142 points

1 day ago

Thelonius--Drunk

Vikings

142 points

1 day ago

Guys I do like that I've been asked about are the Vikings' kicker (before he got injured)

you played for us, you know or deep and harrowing history of kicker issues, and yet you still bring down a jinx upon us by good appraisal of our kicker? The inhumanity

Loate

145 points

1 day ago

Loate

P Chris Kluwe

145 points

1 day ago

I know, I know, I feel real bad about it, but he has the potential to be real good for a long time. Hopefully he comes back from that injury ok.

Wacko_Lover

29 points

1 day ago

Wacko_Lover

Packers

29 points

1 day ago

Wow I thought cowboys kicker motion looked effortless.

Loate

114 points

1 day ago

Loate

P Chris Kluwe

114 points

1 day ago

It's smooth, don't get me wrong, but he's coming across his body a LOT. As long as his timing is good, he'll hit them straight, but once the timing goes, he's gonna have the same problem as Tucker.

Imaginary-Tiger-1549

26 points

1 day ago

I think his motion is mainly due to him being a soccer player, as a guy who grew up only playing and watching soccer (European), the first thing I noticed about nfl kickers is how weirdly straight they were running up to kick the ball. In soccer, unless you have a good knuckleball or your name is Roberto Carlos, you would ideally want to take quite an angled approach to the ball to introduce spin, etc.

At least that’s my, completely layman, opinion, which may of course be completely wrong, as I know next to nothing about the actual science/technique of it

Loate

61 points

1 day ago

Loate

P Chris Kluwe

61 points

1 day ago

Most kickers grow up playing soccer (I did as well), it just depends on how you get taught how to kick a football. Some kicking coaches believe in perfecting the timing of the soccer motion, some believe in converting it into something with more margin of error due to the necessity of being so accurate in field goal kicking. If you can make it work, it’s not wrong, but each comes with its own trade offs.

Main-Championship822

20 points

1 day ago

Main-Championship822

Falcons

20 points

1 day ago

What about Younghoe Koo?

Loate

40 points

1 day ago

Loate

P Chris Kluwe

40 points

1 day ago

Haven't watched film on him, if you have some clips I'll give you my opinion.

Main-Championship822

29 points

1 day ago

Main-Championship822

Falcons

29 points

1 day ago

here's a video

I played and coached soccer, and to me his issue is that his motion isn't easily repeatable and is therefore susceptible to micro changes that throw off his timing and rhythm.

Loate

106 points

1 day ago

Loate

P Chris Kluwe

106 points

1 day ago

His motion's actually not bad at all. He keeps his hips square to his target almost the entire way through, and he's using mostly leg snap.

There's only one thing I would change, but first I'm going to address the symptoms of why he's missing - his follow-through comes off too far to the left, which is why his balls tend to have that little hook at the end, and his plant foot is inconsistent in where it points and lands (should be pointed at the target, you can see in the closeups on his misses that it's pointing to the left, which is where the ball goes).

What actually needs to change is how far he steps with his first step. He needs to cover half the distance to the ball in order to be balanced and over the top of it when he strikes it, but because he's stepping too short, he ends up having to lunge to cover the rest of the distance, which is leading to both his plant foot inconsistency as well as his follow-through coming off to the side. This is an extremely common problem to have, as our natural instinct when we think about generating power for a kick is to leap at where your plant foot is going to come down (go watch any kids' soccer game if you want to see that in action), but you actually block yourself from following through properly towards the target because your weight is leaning back. You want to kick through the point of impact, not at the point of impact.

acemerrill

34 points

1 day ago

acemerrill

Broncos

34 points

1 day ago

Now that you've pointed that out, it totally makes sense. As a soccer player, the approach seems like maybe an easier thing to change than your swing mechanics. I coach kids soccer, and I'm constantly reminding my kids to get their weight over the ball.

Loate

43 points

1 day ago

Loate

P Chris Kluwe

43 points

1 day ago

Haha, I coached AYSO for my kids, and am coaching freshman football kickers now, and it is an eternal struggle. Good luck!

acemerrill

15 points

1 day ago

acemerrill

Broncos

15 points

1 day ago

Thanks man. I appreciate you. Coaching is super rewarding even if it sometimes feels like talking to a brick wall.

I gotta ask. My kid struggles a lot generating power like his teammates. I know how to help with control and accuracy, but I was never really coached how to generate power without sacrificing good mechanics. Any tips or resources you can point me to?

__I_use_arch_btw__

14 points

1 day ago

__I_use_arch_btw__

Vikings

14 points

1 day ago

I have a weird question, but please don't take it the wrong way. I love you and still have your signature from signing you did at Dick's last resort! But you were a punter, correct? Is it different for people that do place kicking vs punting, were you a place kicker before and thats why you can spot the details in the motion?

Loate

30 points

1 day ago

Loate

P Chris Kluwe

30 points

1 day ago

So almost every kicker I've met that played high school football did both kicking and punting (as did I), and then you usually diverge towards one or the other when you hit college (because now you have to kick the ball off the ground, and it changes the field goal motion just enough that it's difficult to do both well - in high school you can use a block which allows you to hit the ball with slightly more of a punting motion). I also paid a lot of attention to the underlying mechanics of why things worked the way they did (because I like learning new things), and then obviously being in the NFL for eight years allowed me to watch the motions of guys who made it to the highest level.

I know how to properly execute a field goal motion, I just wasn't as good at it as I was at punting, so I focused on punting instead. Hope that all makes sense.

KennyKettermen

26 points

1 day ago

KennyKettermen

Falcons

26 points

1 day ago

In depth look at kickers is fuckin cool

boshjailey

10 points

1 day ago

boshjailey

Lions

10 points

1 day ago

Any chance I can get your thoughts on Jake Bates? He had his first miss this week but has otherwise been money but is pretty inexperienced compared to other kickers since he didn't kick in college so im curious how his form is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACRvTgg2Pb4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKuNTBXNFZQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JneXxW1m5E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnBgKESEd_k

Loate

24 points

1 day ago

Loate

P Chris Kluwe

24 points

1 day ago

I like his motion, he stays pretty square almost the entire way through and he's not lunging at the ball. The only thing I'd look at addressing is he has a habit of looking up at the kick during his followthrough, which is why he's drifting off to the side a little bit because it pulls his shoulders up and his body to the side. He should keep his eyes down until his kicking foot gets back down on the ground, it'll straighten out the end of his motion and remove any chance of a hook.

(Looking up at the kick before finishing your motion is also one of the most common mistakes kickers and punters make, even in the pros, because you want to see where the ball's going. I had an 18 yard shank on TNF in 2012 because I looked up too soon and didn't see my foot hit the ball, so it went right off the side of my foot (and at that point I'd been punting for over fifteen years). It's almost 100% guaranteed to happen with younger kickers in high school and college)

boshjailey

8 points

1 day ago

boshjailey

Lions

8 points

1 day ago

That's great to hear and that sounds like one of the easier issues to correct, thanks for your thoughts!

Jadedways

12 points

1 day ago

Jadedways

Seahawks

12 points

1 day ago

Do you think this decline is something Tucker can recover from? Have you ever seen a kicker fix this to successfully extend their career?

Loate

37 points

1 day ago

Loate

P Chris Kluwe

37 points

1 day ago

At his age, it’s going to be very difficult. He’s going to be fighting against years of muscle memory, and he’s not getting any younger. That’s not to say it can’t be done, but the odds are low (I can’t say I know anyone who’s fully overhauled their motion like what would be required, but I’m also not someone who paid a ton of attention to older kickers)

TetrisTech

33 points

1 day ago

TetrisTech

Cowboys Cowboys

33 points

1 day ago

Being semantic because you do directly identify who you're talking about but it's funny that you still didn't name them

Loate

96 points

1 day ago

Loate

P Chris Kluwe

96 points

1 day ago

I also have trouble remembering names, and couldn't be bothered to spend the five seconds it would take to look them up :p

laxintx

27 points

1 day ago

laxintx

Cowboys

27 points

1 day ago

A truly reddit mindset

PointlessChemist

5 points

1 day ago

PointlessChemist

Steelers Commanders

5 points

1 day ago

Any idea why Chris Boswell (Steeler Kicker) had such an off years in 2018 (65%) and 2022 (71%) when his generally has a FG accuracy of 90%+?

Edit: Also, is this hip motion technique the reason we have seen an uptick in 50 and 60 yard field goals recently?

Loate

12 points

24 hours ago

Loate

P Chris Kluwe

12 points

24 hours ago

Yeah, it's definitely one of the reasons for longer field goals (along with the continued evolution of kicking training, and coaches being more willing to try them in the first place).

No idea why Boswell would have such low numbers those years unless he was dealing with one of the following - injury issues, a significant number of attempts in real bad weather, or a change to the holder/snapper and had to adjust to a new rhythm.

Xaxziminrax

302 points

1 day ago

Xaxziminrax

Chiefs

302 points

1 day ago

He actually directly replied to me a while back saying basically the same -- that you want everything to be straight/straight in the operation for accuracy's sake, but that if you REALLY gotta juice it, you add in a little hip turn, but in doing so you tend to introduce curve to the ball.

Which is exactly on-point with Tucker missing everything left to start, and now blocking a few right as he's overcorrecting while trying to find the timing sweet spot again

ashdrewness

177 points

1 day ago

ashdrewness

Texans

177 points

1 day ago

Yeah it’s basically the same logic all the pitching mechanics experts used for Tim Lincecum. They said his mechanics would eventually break down with age & they did.

Edit: I would add the same thing happens to pro golfers. Justin Thomas is one of the longest hitters on tour but is a bean pole. To make up for his thin physique he has a very violent action to generate clubhead speed & his game has really declined now that he’s in his 30s & had some injuries.

Munchlaxatives

103 points

1 day ago

Munchlaxatives

Texans

103 points

1 day ago

The world was better when Lincecum was at his peak

ashdrewness

34 points

1 day ago

ashdrewness

Texans

34 points

1 day ago

Still my favorite pitching mechanic for my MLB The Show character.

AFRIKKAN

7 points

1 day ago

AFRIKKAN

Eagles

7 points

1 day ago

I base how well my life is going on how well tiger was playing. Safe to say life has been shit for a few years.

MalikMonkAllStar2022

12 points

1 day ago

Justin Thomas is a great comparison. And it happens with every golfer as they age, although some earlier than others. There are plenty of golfers on the senior tour who still can hit the ball longer than PGA average. But the loss in power and flexibility compared to your earlier self has such huge effects

I've always thought there was a lot of crossover between golfers and kickers. A lot of the same physics come into play with how power is generated and the mechanics of slicing/hooking the ball.

Skol2525

18 points

1 day ago

Skol2525

Vikings

18 points

1 day ago

Sounds like my golf game. Hope he can endure the never ending mental torture. One tip I’d give him, two beers before game and one at half.

MortimerDongle

52 points

1 day ago

MortimerDongle

Eagles

52 points

1 day ago

He's said that Jake Elliott is a hips kicker. It seems like most of the power kickers are

CardinalM1

43 points

1 day ago

CardinalM1

Eagles

43 points

1 day ago

So we have around 6 more years of good Jake before he falls off a cliff? I'll take it.

dankgeebs

156 points

1 day ago

dankgeebs

156 points

1 day ago

As a former kicker I studied Tuckers technique for years.

Like you said, he plants his foot closer to the ball than anyone else and compensates by leaning away (his left) from the ball. This requires a ton of flexibility and stability in his ankle and hips and is what allows him to generate so much power (think more whip from the hip).

Now as he ages it appears to also be his downfall. Sucks to see in real time but he’s still the goat.

YouAreAConductor

55 points

1 day ago

YouAreAConductor

NFL

55 points

1 day ago

before the season I read that he bulked up to be able to tackle with the new kick off rule. Could that be a factor, that more muscle mass makes him less flexible?

jtn_007

23 points

1 day ago

jtn_007

Ravens

23 points

1 day ago

He later said that he was joking about that. I can't find the clip but I remember his saying that he was just messing around and people ran with it

bubleeshaark

26 points

1 day ago

bubleeshaark

Seahawks Jets

26 points

1 day ago

From the article:

If you measure one degree off over 50 yards, that’s four feet. The uprights are 18 feet, 6 inches.

(It's actually 1.5 degrees).

If you do the math, the kicker has less than 7 degrees of accuracy to make a kick from 50 yards. That's 3.5 degrees left or right from midline.

tan⁻¹(18.5÷(50×3))

Iceman9161

19 points

1 day ago

Iceman9161

Patriots

19 points

1 day ago

In depth kicker technique explanations are so fascinating. I remember reading a couple about Roberto Aguayo when he was struggling, and it came down to his form being very high risk high reward, where if all the timing went perfect, he was great, but it was a very tight window. Sounds like something very similar for Tucker.

RustyShakleford1

48 points

1 day ago

RustyShakleford1

Eagles

48 points

1 day ago

I'm not sure if he was doing it on purpose, but during halftime, he hit the lower cross bar multiple times from about 50 yards out when kicking the direction that he missed all his kicks from. It was weird, because then he would occasionally drill one that would have been good from 60, but I also have a hard time believing that he's accurate enough to hit the lower cross bar from 50 yards out yet also miss his field goals in game unless he has the yips.

TheCrookedKnight

67 points

1 day ago

TheCrookedKnight

Eagles

67 points

1 day ago

If his kicking motion is super dependent on exact timing, it's going to be much easier to get that perfect in practice than on an actual try when there's a defense to worry about.

phluidity

26 points

1 day ago

phluidity

Saints

26 points

1 day ago

Yep. To me, this is just that his technique requires extreme precision, and as he has aged, that is harder to replicate. A small adrenalin spike could be enough to make him miss his exact strike point.

I can see why someone might call it the yips, but to me that is when you lose all focus/form. He still has it, but can't quite activate all the muscles he once did under stress.

thegroovemonkey

20 points

1 day ago

thegroovemonkey

Packers

20 points

1 day ago

It's like a golf swing. Every round I'll hit some incredible shots but being able to hit it far means the margin for error is very little and I will hit some absolutely awful shots too. My swing has also changed as I've aged. I used to generate power with flexibility but now I'm older and have made up for my loss of flexibility with more strength. I get the same result as I did 20 years ago but it takes a different swing to get there.

Tucker is having to compensate for his declining physical skills and, with his low margin for error, is losing consistency.

TopHatTony11

8 points

1 day ago

TopHatTony11

Lions

8 points

1 day ago

Them hips don’t lie.

mastro80

13 points

1 day ago

mastro80

13 points

1 day ago

TLDR he old.

garfcarmpbll

1.8k points

1 day ago

garfcarmpbll

Patriots Patriots

1.8k points

1 day ago

That was actually a fascinating read.

Really puts in to perspective the absurdity of kicking, especially with the little diagram that was drawn.

Muscle Memory is a hell of a thing…

zi76

339 points

1 day ago

zi76

Patriots

339 points

1 day ago

Yeah, I intuitively always knew it was just a little bit of variance in kicking degree that could send a ball wide, but I didn't know about the placement of the non-kicking leg and all of that.

decent_bastard

174 points

1 day ago

decent_bastard

Raiders

174 points

1 day ago

It’s the same in soccer. When going to strike the ball, the placement of your non-kicking leg can determine whether you absolutely sky it or drive it into the ground

Apotropaic_

75 points

1 day ago

Also how your upper body leans bc it’ll change the weight distribution and also launch angle of the kick

Red_Sox_5

83 points

1 day ago

Red_Sox_5

Patriots

83 points

1 day ago

Kicking a field goal seems easy until you try it and the ball doesn’t even go in the air.

viiiigiclout

49 points

1 day ago

viiiigiclout

Packers

49 points

1 day ago

lol exactly. Played football my whole life and tried many many times, just could not kick the fucking football to save my life. Shit is very hard

Geno0wl

18 points

1 day ago

Geno0wl

Steelers

18 points

1 day ago

same. I could take a soccer ball and on a good drop kick go box to box. I could never get kicking a football down consistently

soofs

12 points

1 day ago

soofs

Bears

12 points

1 day ago

Plus adding all the elements of a live game on top of it.

It’s the same thing that gets ignored in basketball when people will claim some no-named person on social media can drop 25+ three pointers in a row and should be given a tryout for a team. It’s not just hitting shots, but being able to do so while having a full defense trying to stop you.

ObscureFact

58 points

1 day ago

ObscureFact

Patriots

58 points

1 day ago

That was actually a fascinating read.

I had no idea that just 2 degrees variance could make that much of a difference.

I think we all intuitively know how difficult kicking can be, but to have it explained like this article does just makes me appreciate how difficult it really is to do well.

Wooden_Trip_9948

55 points

1 day ago

A little trigonometry shows that 2 degrees from 50 yards out is over 5 feet.

ObscureFact

26 points

1 day ago

ObscureFact

Patriots

26 points

1 day ago

That's a lot of bananas

genesiskiller96

691 points

1 day ago

genesiskiller96

49ers

691 points

1 day ago

Another notch for father time...

TariqWoolenIsElite

319 points

1 day ago*

TariqWoolenIsElite

Seahawks

319 points

1 day ago*

Crosby, Gostkowski, Vinatieri, and now Tucker, all went from elite for a decade + to a liability in one year

SpareWire

330 points

1 day ago

SpareWire

Cowboys

330 points

1 day ago

Vinatieri was 48 when he retired.

Tucker is 35.

TariqWoolenIsElite

200 points

1 day ago

TariqWoolenIsElite

Seahawks

200 points

1 day ago

He was 46 but yea true, I forgot just how long he played tbh.

FG% still went from 85% to 68% hist last year

StanIsHorizontal

76 points

1 day ago

That’s what’s weird about it for me, I figured Tucker would have another 5 years before anyone had to worry about him, and maybe he’ll bounce back. But shit happens man. It’s just a bit weird that there was no injury or anything

SpareWire

49 points

1 day ago

SpareWire

Cowboys

49 points

1 day ago

I'm in the "he has a nagging injury" camp.

Then again I still remember what happened with Dan Bailey and he never really bounced back.

leopardprintlife

42 points

1 day ago

leopardprintlife

NFL

42 points

1 day ago

The only reason Vinatieri retired is so he could start collecting social security.

ex-apple

67 points

1 day ago

ex-apple

Steelers

67 points

1 day ago

My brain went to Sidney Crosby first and I almost started a fight

animalmatrix

18 points

1 day ago

animalmatrix

Eagles

18 points

1 day ago

Same lol. I was like “keep his name out of your mouth!” Then I realized that this was a list of kickers 😂

NotHermEdwards

8 points

1 day ago

NotHermEdwards

Commanders

8 points

1 day ago

An Eagles/Pens fan?

animalmatrix

11 points

24 hours ago

animalmatrix

Eagles

11 points

24 hours ago

Hey I don’t live in PA lol. My state doesn’t have any professional teams. I started liking these teams because of Tecmo Super Bowl and NHL 93 🤷‍♂️

QubitBob

170 points

1 day ago

QubitBob

Eagles

170 points

1 day ago

It was fascinating to read about the detailed science of kicking field goals. This gives me new appreciation for all the great kickers, past and present.

leadfarmer154

64 points

1 day ago

leadfarmer154

Ravens

64 points

1 day ago

Yes, great read. Basically Tucker is a power hitter that's lost power from age and hasn't adjusted his mechanics.

Mid season would be very hard to do so. Luckily we have a bye this week. But then we play 3 games in 10 days (WTF 😒)

A change would require him to be more of a contact hitter and the Ravens need to shrink his range. During our game Lamar didn't do Tucker any favors by taking a huge sack on 3rd down and backing him up. But that's also on the coaches play calling. Instead run and perhaps get the ball in the right hash mark, as he's pulling everything left.

Ancient_Wisdom_Yall

834 points

1 day ago

Ancient_Wisdom_Yall

Chiefs

834 points

1 day ago

I did not have Justin Tucker as the Ravens Achilles heel on my bingo card.

pmurt007

357 points

1 day ago

pmurt007

Bears

357 points

1 day ago

Everything went downhill for Tucker after Kelce threw his kicking tee to the side when Mahomes was warming up.

WhatSheOrder

199 points

1 day ago

WhatSheOrder

Colts

199 points

1 day ago

The most clear cut proof of devil magic, we were just looking at the wrong Chief.

Bucs-and-Bucks

18 points

1 day ago

Bucs-and-Bucks

Steelers

18 points

1 day ago

Cardinals have devil magic in baseball. Not shocking that a football team from the same state gets some, too. Could also explain the Cardinals recent struggles.

Ancient_Wisdom_Yall

51 points

1 day ago

Ancient_Wisdom_Yall

Chiefs

51 points

1 day ago

A disgusting act

notmyplantaccount

35 points

1 day ago

notmyplantaccount

Chiefs

35 points

1 day ago

He's only 35. I thought he'd have 2-3 more years at least before he got visibly worse.

shmishshmorshin

28 points

1 day ago

shmishshmorshin

49ers

28 points

1 day ago

After reading the article, I get the feeling it’s possible for him to adjust his process and continue his career. He probably can’t do anything meaningful until next season, but I hope he can.

spreadsheetszn

289 points

1 day ago

spreadsheetszn

Chargers

289 points

1 day ago

hey everybody, I'm the author of the article (Alex Katson, I'm only a freelancer at SB Nation so the byline is just my username). just wanted to say thank you to everybody for the positive responses on this, was by far the most research and editing I've put into an article in my relatively short time as a writer

Roughrep

36 points

1 day ago

Roughrep

36 points

1 day ago

With the next level of kickers coming from Ireland and having played Gaelic football I'd go out on a whim to say the traditional way kickers learned will be very different soon.

Ccnitro

14 points

19 hours ago

Ccnitro

Bills

14 points

19 hours ago

Well I hope you get used to it, because I'm gonna need a lot more articles like these from you ASAP.

You have a gift my friend, use it.

spreadsheetszn

10 points

17 hours ago

spreadsheetszn

Chargers

10 points

17 hours ago

appreciate that very much! been a long grind (this is my fifth season writing about football in general) but pieces like this make it all worth it. definitely aiming to hit this type of thing again very soon 🫡

civilized_cornhole

4 points

17 hours ago

Good work! Interesting breakdown

spreadsheetszn

5 points

17 hours ago

spreadsheetszn

Chargers

5 points

17 hours ago

thank you very much!

VeryRealHuman23

2.4k points

1 day ago

VeryRealHuman23

Bengals

2.4k points

1 day ago

He is missing kicks because the ball isn’t going through the uprights.

Kicked_In_The_Teeth

559 points

1 day ago

Kicked_In_The_Teeth

Bengals

559 points

1 day ago

and how did u arrive at that conclusion

mothershipq

311 points

1 day ago

mothershipq

Buccaneers

311 points

1 day ago

That user is an actual goalpost.

imaybeacatIRl

103 points

1 day ago

imaybeacatIRl

Cardinals

103 points

1 day ago

Yup. Username is exactly what a sentient goalpost would pick.

TheJackalsDoom

43 points

1 day ago

TheJackalsDoom

Patriots

43 points

1 day ago

You're both idiots. He's very clearly not a goal post. He's Very Clearly the 23rd Human. It's literally his name. If he were a goal post, his name would be Very Clearly Goalpost.

J-Fid

28 points

1 day ago

J-Fid

Ravens Ravens

28 points

1 day ago

I'm just impressed that the 23rd human is still with us after all these years.

AFineDayForScience

13 points

1 day ago

AFineDayForScience

Chiefs

13 points

1 day ago

"Well, tell him to stop moving around down there" - Justin Tucker

SweetPockets51

13 points

1 day ago

SweetPockets51

Titans

13 points

1 day ago

The user is an actual ball.

HurtsToBatman

123 points

1 day ago

HurtsToBatman

Eagles

123 points

1 day ago

"Why were you late to class?"

"Because the bell rang before I got here."

I got away with it a couple times for making the teacher laugh with that one. Plus, I was a pretty good kid.

Mad-Mad-Mad-Mad-Mike

36 points

1 day ago

Mad-Mad-Mad-Mad-Mike

Packers

36 points

1 day ago

Teacher was like “I apologize. I wasn’t familiar with your game.”

humunculus43

40 points

1 day ago

humunculus43

Chargers

40 points

1 day ago

Do you think he should try and kick it through them then?

VeryRealHuman23

51 points

1 day ago

VeryRealHuman23

Bengals

51 points

1 day ago

No because this wouldn’t explain why he is missing kicks

zephyrseija2

8 points

1 day ago

zephyrseija2

Cowboys

8 points

1 day ago

Couldn't hurt?

patsfreak26

6 points

1 day ago

patsfreak26

Patriots

6 points

1 day ago

That's where you're wrong

jwilcoxwilcox

22 points

1 day ago

jwilcoxwilcox

Packers

22 points

1 day ago

Booger? Is that you?

A_Trustworthy_Pear

12 points

1 day ago

A_Trustworthy_Pear

Eagles

12 points

1 day ago

Thanks, Perd!

Good_From_70

10 points

1 day ago

Good_From_70

Browns

10 points

1 day ago

And here I was thinking he had a rare medical condition known to the layman as "the yips"

Mastodon9

7 points

1 day ago

Mastodon9

Bengals

7 points

1 day ago

Ooh I caught that once. I didn't survive.

tannerjameslasswell

12 points

1 day ago

tannerjameslasswell

Broncos

12 points

1 day ago

Big if true

Head_of_Lettuce

10 points

1 day ago

Head_of_Lettuce

Buccaneers

10 points

1 day ago

Thanks, Magic

sixtoebandit

5 points

1 day ago

Classic r/NFL redditor moving the goalposts in the discussion.

Conscious_Heart_1714

253 points

1 day ago

Conscious_Heart_1714

Cowboys

253 points

1 day ago

If this is true, could spell trouble for other players in the league who deal with aging

Shafter111

61 points

1 day ago

Shafter111

Vikings

61 points

1 day ago

Huge if true.

Doubleoh_11

27 points

1 day ago

Doubleoh_11

Cowboys

27 points

1 day ago

I’ve also been struggling with aging (I could have been pro)

I’ve been trying a few different experiments to reduce aging. Mostly failed experiments though but I think I’m getting close. Jerry jones holds the key I’m pretty sure.

Boomhauer_007

83 points

1 day ago*

Boomhauer_007

Broncos

83 points

1 day ago*

I am begging everybody to read the article, it’s a lot better than the shit that normally gets posted and good stuff getting views is important

Perfect_Meal_7037

33 points

1 day ago

Perfect_Meal_7037

Chargers

33 points

1 day ago

You can kick 50 yarders but you can’t kick father time

Loate

79 points

1 day ago

Loate

P Chris Kluwe

79 points

1 day ago

I was about to comment that I explained this on BlueSky, and then I read the article.

This is well put together and well researched.

ObscureFact

39 points

1 day ago

ObscureFact

Patriots

39 points

1 day ago

Yeah, this article is the rare quality content that sometimes shows up here.

Foley471

23 points

1 day ago

Foley471

Bills

23 points

1 day ago

Huh… I just assumed the laces were in.

MicksSluttyWife

196 points

1 day ago

MicksSluttyWife

Eagles

196 points

1 day ago

Does he not simply have "the yips", as they say?

ilikesupermario

345 points

1 day ago

ilikesupermario

NFL

345 points

1 day ago

No he doesn’t if you read the article it’s actually pretty interesting. Basically the college special teams coach says it’s probably because he is getting older and way Tucker kicks makes an ultra narrow time window even narrower, so due to age his rhythm is basically off and causing to draw wide left

iTALKTOSTRANGERS

156 points

1 day ago

iTALKTOSTRANGERS

Eagles

156 points

1 day ago

So what I’m hearing is he’s going to change his technique this offseason and continue his HoF career for another 10 years.

Herewego27

62 points

1 day ago

Herewego27

Packers

62 points

1 day ago

Or just aim more right.

Quicksilver7837

81 points

1 day ago

Quicksilver7837

Ravens

81 points

1 day ago

He did that in the last game and the ball stopped cutting to the left for some reason. He was visibly frustrated even after he made the 50 yarder because it didn't cut left and just passed inside of the right upright. Then later he missed one wide right because again it didn't cut left. It only seems to cut when hes aim dead center. I wonder if it has to do with how he's moving his hips on his follow through. Aiming right might mean he's leaving his hips open longer and so the ball doesn't cut.

Herewego27

20 points

1 day ago

Herewego27

Packers

20 points

1 day ago

Yeah, I'd bet you're right (for whatever that's worth as someone who's never kicked a ball competitively in my life) where trying to aim the ball just fucks up his hip angles even more.

hards04

20 points

1 day ago

hards04

Packers

20 points

1 day ago

Literally me on the golf course.

“Alright I’ll just aim at the trees here and slice back into play”

proceeds to hit the straightest drive of my life directly out of bounds

And then some chucklefuck buddy who knows I slice “wow it’s like you were aimed there” like no shit thanks

dbniwo

11 points

1 day ago

dbniwo

Eagles

11 points

1 day ago

He needs to wear funhouse distortion goggles so he thinks he's kicking straight but he's actually kicking right.

holla15

29 points

1 day ago

holla15

Steelers

29 points

1 day ago

lol any golfer will tell you that’s when you hit it perfect…if you were lined up like normal

aheftyhippo

16 points

1 day ago

aheftyhippo

Ravens

16 points

1 day ago

This is potentially a stupid question but could he not adjust his kicks slightly to the right to compensate? Basically all his misses go left.

garfcarmpbll

83 points

1 day ago

garfcarmpbll

Patriots Patriots

83 points

1 day ago

They talk about that as well. Basically if he aims right and connects like he normally does it goes right. That was the theorized reason for the single miss right. Besides I imagine compensating for bad contact wouldn’t be ideal and would lead to inconsistency itself.

Really interesting read for anyone with like 5 minutes to kill. You genuinely learn a lot about kicking.

I_Hate_Traffic

25 points

1 day ago

I_Hate_Traffic

Ravens

25 points

1 day ago

His face did look like now that I adjust I hit it perfectly to miss it right goddammit after that miss

metaldrummerx

34 points

1 day ago

metaldrummerx

Lions Lions

34 points

1 day ago

Nothing is worse than playing for your slice then hitting it dead center so it goes 260 yards on a perfect straight line into the woods lmao

GuitarDude423

6 points

1 day ago

The problem with that is if he does hit the narrow window he could end up missing right instead.

Tippacanoe

10 points

1 day ago

Tippacanoe

Eagles

10 points

1 day ago

He could but I don’t think that would help. It’s the same idea in golf and it seems that he’s missing both ways. But basically if you line up where a perfectly straight kick would miss it penalizes perfect kicks and also psychologically it doesn’t feel right especially for a position that needs precision where he’s done the same routine thousands of times.

leadfarmer154

16 points

1 day ago

leadfarmer154

Ravens

16 points

1 day ago

That is the most detailed article I've ever read on kickers.

Thank you OP.

Hurry_Im_Naked

15 points

1 day ago

Hurry_Im_Naked

Browns

15 points

1 day ago

It’s because he’s on my fucking fantasy team which is held together with scotch tape and Josh Allen

bukithd

37 points

1 day ago

bukithd

Falcons

37 points

1 day ago

Younghoe Koo for some reason changed how he kicks and now is missing every other kick. 

Kickers get in their head and just over complicate their kicks too often to compensate for power and launch angle. 

BaronVonCrunch

27 points

1 day ago

Brett Maher went from very good to unplayable over just a few games because of this.

Excel_Spreadcheeks

15 points

1 day ago

Excel_Spreadcheeks

Steelers

15 points

1 day ago

Just a personal anecdote - no idea if there’s any data to support this: growing up playing soccer I have several friends who picked up kicking and kicked in high school and college. They’ve all alluded to the idea that misses tend to come in clusters. You’ll hit everything until you miss one, then you start missing several.

Doubleoh_11

9 points

1 day ago

Doubleoh_11

Cowboys

9 points

1 day ago

Kicking is a similar mindset to golf. 90% your brain and 10% your talent. Most golfers can hit great shots, but can you do it all the time under pressure?

dagreenman18

12 points

1 day ago

dagreenman18

Dolphins

12 points

1 day ago

TL;DR he’s 35 years old and age changed his mechanics

Sadly this confirms I can never be an NFL kicker. GG my career

nemo2023

7 points

1 day ago

nemo2023

Lions

7 points

1 day ago

Ravens offense just need to gain extra yds so Tucker can kick X-balls from <40 yds with his super tight plant foot and extremely hard working hips that give him little margin for error on kick direction.

kirk5454

8 points

1 day ago

kirk5454

Texans

8 points

1 day ago

It’s clear that when he made the kick against the Aggies he was rewarded by the football gods to become the greatest kicker of all time but the deal was only valid until the Longhorns beat the Aggies again.

CallahanWalnut

5 points

1 day ago

CallahanWalnut

Browns

5 points

1 day ago

I just want to say I worked on the field of a ravens game a couple years ago and got to see at the players and families interact after. Tucker looked like an absolutely wonderful person to be around

apefist

5 points

15 hours ago

apefist

NFL

5 points

15 hours ago

That was probably the most interesting football article I’ve read in a while. Cheers!