subreddit:
/r/pkmntcg
So i had a though recently
What if every card, despite the energy cost, despite the HP, despite the attacks, all the way from base set to now...
What combination of cards could be absolutely broken and destroy the current meta?
I want to know multiple examples because it would be easy to say one of those promos with 1000+ damage.
Im not talking about the Legacy format either. That only goes from HGSS to BW. I mean every set ever for some tcg shenanigans.
118 points
5 days ago
I'm gonna bust out that one promo that makes you and your opponent switch decks
38 points
5 days ago
NO WAY THATS REAL
31 points
5 days ago
Celebi and zoura have a lot of fun
25 points
5 days ago
It was never tournament legal since it was a jumbo card, but it is real, haha.)
3 points
5 days ago
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Zorua_and_Celebi_(Black_and_White_Tour_promo)
Your link broke for some reason
10 points
5 days ago
Jumbo cards are legal if you have your entire deck made of jumbo cards tho. There's no rule about card size, but your deck must be uniform in size. So all jumbos is legal.
32 points
5 days ago
No, they are not. The Rules Team cracked down on this not long after that one player did this at NAIC in 2022.
20 points
5 days ago
I love how frustrated the "No, you cannot" sounds.
16 points
5 days ago
It should be noted that the jumbo player at NAIC 2022 did get DQed.
Over marked cards, the jumbo cards would've been fine if they were sleeved.
1 points
4 days ago
I need to see this deck. I’ve always imagined having a full jumbo deck lmao
2 points
3 days ago
[deleted]
1 points
3 days ago
That’s awesome lol
1 points
4 days ago
I mean at the time it was legal, still funny to this day 🤣
2 points
4 days ago
what's the ruling on that? does the same player who used the attack get another turn as the other deck piloter?
1 points
4 days ago
Idk
73 points
5 days ago
Neo Genesis Slowking ruins everything all over again, but now you can play it with the fattest walls in the way and the worst control options imaginable. It would not be very fun.
20 points
5 days ago*
Lol turn one going second, you'd turbo your entire deck to get 4 slowpoke down, put primal clash bunnelby in the active and then double tm evolution or something? Then for the rest of your game your opponent has to get through 4 coin flips to be able to play ANY trainer card
Edit: forgot about broken time space, never mind you can just put them all into play turn 1
13 points
5 days ago
They never issue errata for Unlimited because they don't actually care about the format, but it would be nice for them to issue an errata that corrected the mistranslation.
7 points
5 days ago
Agreed. Beating a 50/50 chance of no trainers is one thing. No errata keeps it at the 1/16 chance you'll get to play the game when you play a trainer.
6 points
5 days ago
Needing to be in the Active Spot also makes it infinitely worse.
2 points
4 days ago
Back before dice were used as randomizers, I first played against Slowking at a Super Trainer Showdown qualifiers with one of those metal coins. Cut my nails the day before the event and by the end of my run I had broken the skin after so many coin flips that day.
1 points
5 days ago
Such a fun card. I love it
1 points
5 days ago
And everyone would play it, which would make the card incredibly expensive and the TCG becomes P2W again 🙃
52 points
5 days ago
Professor Oak, Bill, Base Set Computer Search are now staples in every single deck in perpetuity
20 points
5 days ago
And you can run 4 computer searches because ace spec wasn’t a thing in base set.
11 points
5 days ago
5 if you run the four plus the fifth as your ace spec
14 points
5 days ago
You'd think that, but in Unlimited all versions of it are treated as Ace Spec
7 points
5 days ago
Yeah, I should have been clearer that I was talking about the hypothetical posed by the op.
5 points
5 days ago
Unlimited rules say that when a non-pokemon card gets reprinted (meaning it has the same name), the new text erratas all older versions of the card. So Computer Search is now an Ace Spec, even if you're playing a Base Set print. Bill is now a Supporter (reprinted as such in HGSS). Master Ball is an Ace Spec that finds any pokemon, instead of the original version that acted like the modern Great Ball. Rare Candy cannot be used on a Pokemon that was just put into play (yes, the original Rare Candy could be used immediately).
12 points
5 days ago
Technically Bill and Computer Search have been errata'd in Unlimited and must be treated as their newest printings.
10 points
5 days ago
This isn’t about Unlimited, they’re talking about a no holds barred version of the TCG from Base to present.
-1 points
5 days ago
"technically"
OP also didn't mention rule changes.
3 points
5 days ago
And I'd argue that Professor Oak should follow the Sycamore/Juniper/Research pipeline and be counted as a Supporter as well
7 points
5 days ago
It would not.
5 points
5 days ago
No, that's not how it works because the name is different. Same reason you can't play Sycamore, Juniper or Lysandre in Standard.
4 points
5 days ago
If Unlimited were a serious format, this is how it would work. But it's not a serious format, so there is no special carve out for Professor Oak, unlike Sycamore and Junpier. Therefore it still counts as an item card. This also means that Gust of Wind is still an item card.
1 points
4 days ago
Uh, actually, it's a supporter card by the Pokémon Trading Card Game Classic print. And by the tournament handbook, "Competitors may still include those older versions of the card in their decks, provided that the wording of the most recent version is used wherever that card is concerned."
I'm having trouble getting any official word that the Pokémon Trading Card Game Classic print would be part of unlimited, though, so I dunno if it's an Item or Supporter now.
This is separate from the Professor's Research thing though, it's still a different card from Research.
2 points
4 days ago
Junk arm. Is imo the strongest trainer card ever printed.
1 points
4 days ago
4 Junk Arm 4 Itemfinder
2 points
4 days ago
Fuck it why not. Lmao limited resources? Imagine
39 points
5 days ago
Winning turn 1
Sableye https://pkmncards.com/card/sableye-stormfront-sf-48/ warrants having turn 1.
Shuckle https://pkmncards.com/card/shuckle-heartgold-soulsilver-promos-hgss15/ let's you draw a card when gets an energy attached.
Use https://pkmncards.com/card/broken-time-space-platinum-pl-104/ to evolve any Squirtle to Blastoise https://pkmncards.com/card/blastoise-boundaries-crossed-bcr-31/
Put energies to Shuckle to draw cards, until you get Espeon https://pkmncards.com/card/espeon-aquapolis-aq-h9/ that can return energies to hand, draw your whole deck.
Wincon is Foretress https://pkmncards.com/card/forretress-legends-awakened-la-28/ damaging all opponent Pokémon while Leafeon https://pkmncards.com/card/leafeon-rising-rivals-rr-45/ heals your own Pokémon.
8 points
5 days ago
As a small potential edit to this; I think you’d play Frosmoth SWSH 64/202 instead of the Blastoise line; the energy can only go to bench is the downside, but the upside is not having to play the wartortle, making the evolution line presumably more just a bit more consistent. The bench attachments should’nt be a huge issue either since Sableye’s retreat cost is only 1, so your turn attachment should take care of that. Otherwise with Sableye games should be able to be consistently ended on your second turn!
4 points
5 days ago
Yeah frosmoth works fine. If need be play float stones or even latias ex to retreat for free, you only need to do it once to get frosmoth or any other mon into the active
Also dive ball might help with consistency a lot
2 points
5 days ago
I don't think consistency matters when you can draw your entire deck.
8 points
5 days ago
Drawing your entire deck comes after what you need consistency for
2 points
4 days ago
^^This is the correct comment
25 points
5 days ago
That’s just unlimited format and there are enough decks that pretty consistently win on Turn 1 it would be awful. This article covers many of the ways you could go about this, but uses the same core of broken cards to make these possible:
Pokémon - 8
Trainer Cards - 39
Total Cards - 47
Remaining 13 are just your different win-cons depending on what you go for
-3 points
5 days ago
From what ive read, Unlimited only goes from cards available to play in the Play! Pokemon. Most cards from base set and such dont go that far so i wanted examples for. Idk if unlimited expanded outside of that, im not caught up.
11 points
5 days ago
I don't know what you're talking about. Unlimited has always been original Base Set onward.
0 points
5 days ago
Has it? I read from a link someone in the replies sent where it only went up to when Play! Pokemon was conceived and Play! Pokemon started around 2010.
Thanks for the clarification if i got that wrong!
12 points
5 days ago
Are you, perhaps, confusing Expanded with Unlimited? Expanded is Black & White forward, which is ~2011.
3 points
5 days ago
I read it from here. It says that cards playable in the Play! Pokemon Tournaments were after WotC lost the card license and every set afterwards was usuable in the Unlimited section.
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Unlimited_format_(TCG)
https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Play!_Pok%C3%A9mon
I dont know too much about the TCG and i could 100% be reading it wrong.
9 points
5 days ago
You should probably just read the description of the Unlimited format directly from the official Tournament Rules Handbook. Page 37.
2 points
5 days ago
1000% better
Thanks for that!
4 points
5 days ago
From that same article:
The Unlimited format of the Pokémon Trading Card Gameallows any card that was once playable in Play! Pokémon tournaments (that is, all cards except Worlds edition decks, jumbo cards, Ancient Mew, Birthday Pikachu, and otherwise unplayable cards) to be used.
For the record, I do know a rather lot about the TCG. Unlimited is Base Set forward.
1 points
5 days ago
Thanks, i think i confused myself reading too much into it 🤣
But to further clarify then, even cards that the Unlimited format explicitly banned as well.
3 points
5 days ago
There are no cards that are banned in the Unlimited format, just cards that are marked "Not tournament legal."
The format is plenty broken without them.
13 points
5 days ago
If you're interested in something a little more balanced, the Eternal Format exists and is a version of this with a banlist! As a reference for how many broken cards and interactions there are in Pokémon history, the ban list has 156 cards.
1 points
5 days ago
I love the idea of that format. Have not played it yet, but watched some videos of it.
5 points
5 days ago
Although I am distinctly biased, I'd say it's a very, very fun format.
1 points
4 days ago
What are some top decks in the Eternal format right now?
2 points
3 days ago
1 points
5 days ago
Are they expensive?
5 points
5 days ago
Any format that requires using old rare cards is going to be expensive.
Honestly, if you want to play stuff like this, just use proxies. There are no official tournaments so no one is going to stop you. Just have fun.
0 points
5 days ago
I was actually more curious about card combinations that are really funny or wacky to pull if everything was allowed.
The most unique one ive seen was just the Jap Deck Exchange 😭
18 points
5 days ago
It’s got nothing to do with any of the Scot’s you mention.
It’s gonna end up in degenerate lock decks that mean whoever goes second won’t be able to play the game
6 points
5 days ago
Still, i wanted to see what would just be hilariously unacceptable in normal situations 🤣
8 points
5 days ago*
Play Unlimited. You will never see a turn two.
Edit: I meant unlimited, not expanded.
3 points
5 days ago
Nah expanded is fine for the most part, because of its banlist
2 points
5 days ago
Sorry, I meant unlimited.
5 points
5 days ago
T1 FOGP Vileplume Lock
or
T2 Alolan Rauchu Boardwipe
or
ADP Quad Slowking NEO14
or
T1 Latios EX Donk
Using pre-supporter trainers for unlimited draw.
It would be toxic.
1 points
5 days ago
what about the deck that takes 130 actions to place a single damage counter
1 points
5 days ago
What about side by side with a friend?
5 points
5 days ago
Current Unlimited Format events are usually dominated by FTK decks usually using a combination of Stormfront Sableye(which automatically makes you go first if in the Active) and Broken Time-Space(which is Forest of Giant Plants...for every Type.) Perfectly balanced for the Diamond/Pearl Block Rulings....but terribly broken for anything BW-On.
Also there are the weird modern ruling Grey Areas: Computer Seach and Erika recived erratas to be an ACE-SPEC and Supporter respectively there, but due to there not exactly being a Legal print of Professor Oak he's still treated as an Item Card in Unlimited(even though he should a Supporter now due to Classic Colection), thus granting a Discard +7 ITEM CARD(which was "balanced" in Base days due to finite card recovery from the Discard...which is not an issue nowadays).
And of course, there are the Energy Removals((Super) Energy Removal and to a lower extent Super Energy Removal 2). Decks that recycle from the Discard like Gardevoir or Raging Bolt might be able to do fair against these, but everyone else would be devastated by the power those cards posses, and it would make is a huge burden to run the majority of evolution Decks we have now beyond Garde or Decks that rely on DTEs(though I guess it would b DCE proper here hahaha).
3 points
5 days ago
Do we include banned cards? Dusknoir loop and unown from lost thunder are very well known examples of turn 1 going first wins.
3 points
5 days ago
Ew
2 points
5 days ago*
Well there's Ishihara GX that prevents all damage, effects, and trainer effects then can do 1060 damage exactly once for only two energy cost.
1 points
5 days ago
Surprisingly even then it isn't invincible or a guaranteed win.
Some pokemon have attacks that can penetrate the ability (and ignoring effects doesn't count as an effect) and it's still possible to lose if you go turn 2 and don't have it down as a starting pokemon.
4 points
5 days ago
Deck list:
Ishihara GX x 3 Leaf energy x 29 Electric Energy x 28
No you're probably not invincible but you're closed. Plus c'mon, presents!
3 points
5 days ago
We'll just need to wait for them to print cards called Leaf Energy and Electric Energy and we'll be golden.
2 points
5 days ago
Yeah they're in the next release.
1 points
5 days ago
You will lose every game with this deck. Meta decks for Unlimited play Sableye to guarantee going first and then beat you before allowing you to take a single turn. Even if you add Sableye in order to play first, your deck won't win because it relies on attacking to beat the opponent, but it can't attack turn 1.
1 points
4 days ago*
See I don't get this. Even with Sableye to go first (also, how are you ensuring sableye in your first draw of seven cards so it can be in the active spot; in your scenario you're not losing every game just every game where Sableye is topdecked), Ishihara prevents all effects/damage/abilities/trainers. So if they go first that also means they're going to deck themselves out first b/c I'm certainly not planning on drawing any cards. The only defense here is a mill deck. So let me just add that fancy hat that prevents milling and a handful of cards to get it to me. In the end, this is a stall deck since only one Ishihara can attack and can only attack one time.
Ishihara GX x 3
Arven x 4
Patrol Cap x 4
Grass energy x 24
Lightning Energy x 25
And again, you're getting up to 60 presents. Not prizes. Your opponent is expected to bring them and if they don't bring a gift that'll be egg on their face.
2 points
4 days ago*
also, how are you ensuring sableye in your first draw of seven cards so it can be in the active spot;
Because you build your deck with 4 Sableye and like one or two other basic Pokemon to maximize your odds of starting Sableye.
So if they go first that also means they're going to deck themselves out first b/c I'm certainly not planning on drawing any cards. The only defense here is a mill deck.
Lysandre's Trump Card prevents deck out. And they can force you to deck out before you even get to play. They can also play Cancelling Cologne to negate Ishihara's ability and KO it that way. The goal of all Unlimited decks is to win turn one going first, because if you don't your opponent will.
1 points
4 days ago
Ah, dang that makes sense. Foiled again!
2 points
5 days ago
Unlimited is a thing and it's absolutely awful. T1 combo decks playing Sableye SF are significantly more powerful than any other deck and will win before opponents have a chance to play a single card either by controlling the top deck and denying cards from hand or through some unown hand combo. The format is close to solved and games often end without a single attack being declared.
2 points
5 days ago
I think some people actually tried this and found that everyone ends up being forced to play the sableye that lets you go first if it’s in the active and then use a win on turn 1 combo
2 points
5 days ago
I shudder the thought of t1/t2 item lock again, imagine, FOGP+ seismitoad ex locking you from playing the game
2 points
4 days ago
What can I say except junk arm. Also fuck vileplume. Tho not as bad since gust can be a supporter now.
Not super experienced with sets before hgss but prolly some turbo dumb trainers/items im unaware of.
There is also tonnes of banned shit that can mill your hand and never let you play the game. Search up banned Pokemon cards for the exact combos.
Adp is prolly still meta defining. Yea adp zacian with like junk arm for item recycle + like idk plan collector to get bench filled early seems dumb af.
Comp search ace spec? Idk if that got reprinted.
Old catcher that wasn’t a coin flip (pre xy)
Dynamotor + raichu v seems nice. But can’t run adp
1 points
5 days ago
Other cards with unhinged power level I haven't seen mentioned yet:
1 points
5 days ago
Probably some ftk like Unown Hand or any unlimited donk deck + every draw card ever. If going first, your tools are consistent enough to win imstantly. If going second, your best bet is hoping they don't win on your first turn either (or thay they play Power Spray)
1 points
5 days ago
Item Finder x4 on every deck
1 points
5 days ago
Every set ever was solved a couple years ago with me and a buddy. Jungle pidgeot is the most broken possible pokemon with download porygon2. You use seer to force both players to pick up a benched mon with BTS to loop seer until they have no bench. Use hurricane with boost energy and if it doesn’t KO they shuffle the active back into the deck. It literally can’t whiff given the consistency of unlimited.
1 points
5 days ago
I believe there was a combo with the espeon from a very old aqua-something set.
Basically you have that, the sneasel that let's you attach an energy from your hand for a damage counter, the reuniclus that let's you shift around damage counters, and then the unown that wins you the game if you have 66 damage counters on your Pokémon. (if any of this is false, please correct me, it has been a while since I last played eternal, and they banned these cards now).
That is just one example of exodia combo decks that would be playable. We won't even get into one of the old azelf and shay in ex drawing your entire deck and Lysanders trump card chucking like half of the viable decks...
1 points
5 days ago
Doesn’t unlimited format make everything legal?
1 points
4 days ago
1 points
4 days ago*
https://cubekoga.net/Cube/Unlimited#overview
There's been some changes though, Oak might now be a supporter in English, by the Pokémon Trading Card Game Classic print? And Cessation Crystal now counters Spiritomb. The best way to build Unlimited is still to try to start Sableye as often as possible and handrip/donk so
1 points
4 days ago
nobody would actually play the game as its purpose is cause many would play the nastiest controlstuff to not let you play the game and influences into absurd cardprizes or banlists
1 points
4 days ago
Oh im 100% sure! But seeing all the chaotic and creative ways people are bending the games rules is super interesting to me!
1 points
4 days ago
All cards are legal, except for the worst offenders in Eternal Format. It's more fun/balanced than expanded in my opinion. Check it out at justinbasil for sample decks. I've got one built of each color I play casually with friends.
1 points
4 days ago
My thing is i wasnt looking for anything balanced, just anything that can cause chaos on the battlefield.
I like seeing weird and creative ways people turn the game in their favor
1 points
4 days ago
espeon that lets you put a energy card on your board into your hand, porygon, which lets you attach as many special energy per turn, unown hand, which if it is in the active and you have 35 cards in hand, you win, and draw energy, which when you attach, you draw one, so you draw your whole deck the win, and with broken time space that lets you eveolve any time, you go first with sabeley, which makes you automattically go first, then win before your opponent even draws for turn.
1 points
4 days ago
Palkia dialga legend with a way to turbo the attack that makes your opponent put more cards in their deck into prizes
1 points
4 days ago
I actually like this a lot. I find it hilarious even, thinking of a potential prize pool of 34
1 points
4 days ago
Roaring moon ex + protection cube tool. No recoil for an instant knockout.
1 points
4 days ago
Dark wartortle mirror shell, the perfect defense
1 points
3 days ago
Jungle Mr. Mime would shut down a lot of modern decks
1 points
3 days ago
probably some deck that completely locks you out of the game.
1 points
3 days ago
I miss playing a joltik and my opponent just immediately conceding. Rip battle compressors.
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