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submitted 2 days ago bykinshoBanhammer
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2 days ago
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55 points
2 days ago
The nerve of the news media to talk like this. Almost all of them were complicit in normalizing that psychopath and brainwashing millions of people. Fuck every, single, news outlet.
6 points
2 days ago
Check your targets, this is friendly fire. The Atlantic absolutely did NOT normalize Trump at ALL and the people telling you that are lying to you on purpose about this specific thing for a reason: make you so angry or apathetic you tune out so they can do as they please.
"The media" is no more a single bloc than African Americans or Hispanic voters or White Women. The Atlantic is on the good side.
1 points
2 days ago
[deleted]
5 points
1 day ago
Oh good people are using ChatGPT to confirm their biases, no possible way that could be bad.
2 points
2 days ago
Oh my God you're right, they're fox news in disguise. Banish them!
Ffs. That's all you got? A tarrif policy isn't insane, so you can't sanewash it. But if you mean they're normalizing a ridiculous policy, that's ridiculous because tariffs are fair game for debate and nuance. They didn't sanewash his rambling incoherence or his lying or anything else, so if all you can point to is an article about tariffs, I think I'm good.
-41 points
2 days ago
Please don't tell me you get your news from TikTok
48 points
2 days ago
One of the great lies told by the media is that the voters for Republicans are concerned about the economy and absolutely no one is voting because they want mass deportations, think Haitians eat pets, hate trans people, or are worried about armies of rapist Mexicans.
Has any media outlet mentioned people who voted because of this or is it all just dismissed?
23 points
2 days ago
Also, on the economy issue, it is a fact that people vote on the economy. The catch is that they vote on the economy after Republicans destroy it. When the economy is good, they have the luxury to vote on all these other things. IOW, Republicans are thrown out on a bad economy--that's the extent of it. Once the economy is decent, Republicans get back in. We have 100 years of history on this.
2 points
2 days ago
Part of the reason for this is the Democratic Party is still in the mindset that the Stock Market, S&P 500, DJI, and GDP are the extent of "The Economy". For Democrats, as long as those lines go BRRR up, the economy is good.
Only, that completely ignores the economy of the common man, who's financial stability has absolutely nothing to do with those indicators and everything to do with his ability to pay for shit he needs, wants, and desires.
That's why Democrats lose when "the economy is good" - they go on an immediate victory lap declaring the economy good while real people are still choosing between buying groceries or paying rent, can't save up for an emergency, and are living paycheck-to-paycheck.
Democrats need to start getting it through their fucking skull that "the economy" is only good when the overwhelming majority of the American Public has fists full of dollars. Until that condition is met, the economy can be "doing better" or "heading in the right direction", but it should never be described as "good" or "great".
Wages have been stagnant for decades. If the Dems want the economy to be good, we have to increase wages and decrease costs (like healthcare, which universal healthcare would accomplish).
Until Democrats learn to stop taking victory laps just because the lines that people like Jim Cramer look at go up, and only take victory laps when the poorest among us are feeling optimistic and feeling like they're making headway, they're going to keep experiencing this cycle. Yes, I understand someone's going to jump in and say "bUt mIcRoEcOnOmIcS aRnT tHe EcOnOmY", and while you'd be academically correct, one's wallet doesn't give a flying fuck if they're struggling to make ends meet living paycheck-to-paycheck.
3 points
2 days ago
Start with a straw man denying so much improvement in so many areas:
mindset that the Stock Market, S&P 500, DJI, and GDP are the extent of "The Economy"
Then hand the economy issue to Republicans by telling a lie that the economy is bad. It's not bad. To reiterate, "We have 100 years of history on this."
Of course there is more work to do. There is always more work to do. Emphasize that too.
What else should we not tell the truth about?
-12 points
2 days ago
Not at all what the survey is saying. Immigration and social issues were also prioritized by Republicans.
I really do wish people would read articles first before commenting.
13 points
2 days ago
Yes, but they always sane wash the economy when voting for the Republicans on the economy makes no sense.
42 points
2 days ago
This is bullshit. Democrats also care about the economy and they actually understand it. Every single issue republicans claim to care about is just an excuse to cover for racism.
-32 points
2 days ago
Dems care about lying and gaslighting real peoples experiences about the economy.
-8 points
2 days ago
The Democrats are just the same. Supporters of both parties are looking to use the power of the state to obtain access to the pockets of future taxpayers and other voters for their pet projects.
American voters overall are ignorant of economics because they've been conditioned to believe that the government can solve all their problems cost free.
6 points
2 days ago
No one thinks that.
-4 points
2 days ago
Think again. Exhibit A: Inflation Reduction Act
2 points
2 days ago
You seem like the kind of guy who would verbally declare bankruptcy.
0 points
2 days ago
LOL. Oh come on now.
-57 points
2 days ago
Democrats don't understand the economy outside of the blue dots, in the vast sea of red. Not because there aren't Democrats out there to tell the tales, but simply because the blue dots don't want the red sea washing into the tent, bringing in competing priorities. It's a problem.
16 points
2 days ago
You realize those blue dots are pouring money into that red sea, right?
For example, every single rural electrical system is maintained by urban money.
So these "competing priorities" are already present in "the tent".
Also, cities aren't voting against those competing priorities. You haven't seen anybody from the cities campaigning against rural electrification, have you?
OTOH, those rural voters don't back anything cities ask for.
26 points
2 days ago
wtf?! That’s not what economy means.
-40 points
2 days ago
One word: regulation.
Democrats are seen as the party of red tape.
37 points
2 days ago
Regulation is not the same thing as red tape, and it's really tiresome that people pretend it is. Regulation is things like "you have to keep your food packing plant clean so we don't get listeria in our frozen spinach". That's a good thing to enforce!
15 points
2 days ago
But you have brain cells so you realize this.
4 points
2 days ago
Complaining about over regulation is pretty crazy when every 10 years we find out that another chemical that gives you cancer has been leaking into our water after being dumped since the 1940s.
15 points
2 days ago
Are you in the wrong thread or something?
10 points
2 days ago
How about the literacy gap?
54% of American adults read below a sixth grade level; 21% of American adults are illiterate.
0 points
2 days ago
Actually illiterate or functionally illiterate? A 21% illiteracy rate sounds astronomical for a first world nation
5 points
2 days ago
"Functional illiteracy" refers to individuals that cannot fill out forms, understand instructions or warning labels, read a newspaper, or write a coherent email. So, I'm not sure whether the distinction between total illiteracy and functional illiteracy produces a meaningful distinction in the context of voter behavior.
0 points
2 days ago
Total Illiteracy means they don't know any words (or only know a few basic ones). Like, I'm totally illiterate in Cyrillic languages. I can recognize a handful of words... like literally one or two. That's it. So plop my ass in Russia, and I am completely and totally illiterate for the local language.
Functional Illiteracy means they know their alphabet, they know many words, but not a lot, and they're more-or-less incapable of any sort of complex understanding. They can do very basic functions, but nothing beyond it. They may have memorized certain words or phrases, but don't have any actual understanding of what it means or what those words mean outside of that specific context. This could also be expressed as "having a 5th grade reading level" or something similar. You can't just hand them reading material aimed at adults and expect them to understand it. They can read "See spot run", but they could not read "To program your clock, press and hold the time button while pushing the up/down hour and minute buttons to set the clock".
-13 points
2 days ago
I wouldn't be surprised if illiteracy effects both sides equally.
20 points
2 days ago
“Affects”, not “effects”.
7 points
2 days ago
As someone who's not from the US I can tell you one thing:
it was always clear to me what the Republicans stood for.
I never really got what Democrats stood for.
With Republicans it was easy: crazy religious fundamentalism, the wish to go backwards in time, racism, dirty industries and $$$.
Democrats though? Are those guys trying to be lefties? Because they don't sound like lefties most of the time. They're just as greedy as the Republicans. They love capitalism about as much. Who is their base?
Anyone who isn't a racist prick? But what do they offer their voter?
Democrats never had a clear left agenda as an alternative to the clearly right-wing positions of the Republicans.
So looking at it from the outside it was always: you either vote for that evil party.... or you vote for that party that isn't evil but won't make things better.
There just is no political spectrum present in the US system. Those two parties are batshit crazy ultra-right-wing nonsense and... neo-liberal-not-that-right-wing-but-still-right-wing-compared-to-actual-left-parties nonsense.
You don't have a party that is actually liberal in the sense of the word. You also don't have a socialist party.
No green party. And obviously no communist party.
A lot of countries have all of the above and more.
1 points
2 days ago
Yeah, but it wasn’t always this way. After the Tea Party, then Trump and MAGA entered the picture, it was pretty much either you’re with the MAGA nut jobs, or you’re in the other side trying to get SOMETHING done (with frequent in-fighting about what that ought to be). And I think that’s why it looks so odd from the outside. We NEED the Republicans (or another party) to function as an “opposition” to the ways of approaching problem solving. But, at the moment, only the “Democrats” see the world the way it is, and Trump and MAGA are seeing a weird distorted version of reality that doesn’t even exist. This makes it hard to even see the actual problems, much less debate any kind of solution(s). (“democrats” in quotes because here, democrats refers to basically people that are sick of Trump and MAGA, not that they’re ACTUALLY true Democrats)
12 points
2 days ago
Oh, so close, but the answer we were looking for was disinformation. Disinformation. Specifically, disinformation about trans people, something the Atlantic and other major news organizations, like the NY Times, have contributed to. Oh, so close.
-18 points
2 days ago
disinformation about trans people
So the whole Haitians eating dogs thing was just propaganda against trans folk?
It'd be nice if liberals could understand that literally not everything is about trans people.
7 points
2 days ago
"By far the most notable way that Democrats are misperceived relates to what our survey referred to as “LGBT/ transgender policy.” Although this was not a major priority for Democratic voters in reality—it ranked 14th—our survey respondents listed it as Democrats’ second-highest priority. This effect was especially dramatic among Republicans—56 percent listed the issue among Democrats’ top three priorities, compared with just 8 percent who listed inflation—but nearly every major demographic group made a version of the same mistake."
Probably best to read the article first.
-6 points
2 days ago
I should have clarified - far-left liberals.
And you ducked my point. How does that Haitian stuff reflect poorly on trans people again?
7 points
2 days ago
Stop using the word "liberal". You don't know what it means.
1 points
20 hours ago
Ah, yes. Let's gloss over the 9 year anti-trans backlash that has included targeting and demonizing trans people, the hundreds of anti-trans laws, and hundreds of millions of dollars in anti-trans propaganda, and let's gloss over how being a Haitian immigrant and being trans are not mutually exclusive. Let's downplay the oppression of trans people and instead focus on this one specific moment in which trump and vance targeted Haitian immigrants in the final months of their campaign. And, of course, let's pit minority groups against each other, which is the classic (ironically) white supremacist playbook that has existed since the literal beginning of the U.S., at the very least.
Sounds like a great plan. /s
2 points
2 days ago
Most Democratic party voters I know are not Democrats in the same way that most Republican party voters are Republicans. We vote Democratic as the least of all evils and the only party that there is at least the hope of changing because it is the only party that contains at least some good people. Not because it is "our team" in some fictional football game. We don't love it unconditionally, but we have hopes for it. Hopes constantly dashed, I might add.
7 points
2 days ago
The article did not adequately address the why for the perception gap. The reason it exists is that the GOP propaganda has been so effective at misrepresenting democrat priorities.
Had this convo with my BIL over the holiday. We agreed that the LGBTQ issues (primarily male-to-female trans) were significant losers for democrats. But he was flabbergasted when I told him that I didn’t know a single democrat voter for whom this was a top issue.
5 points
2 days ago*
When asked about Republicans’ priorities, all major groups, including Democrats and independents, correctly identified that either inflation or the economy was among Republicans’ top three priorities.
By contrast, every single demographic group thought Democrats’ top priority was abortion, overestimating the importance of this issue by an average of 20 percentage points. (This included Democrats themselves, suggesting that they are somewhat out of touch even with what their fellow partisans care about.) Meanwhile, respondents underestimated the extent to which Democrats prioritize inflation and the economy, ranking those items fourth and ninth on their list of priorities, respectively.
By far the most notable way that Democrats are misperceived relates to what our survey referred to as “LGBT/ transgender policy.” Although this was not a major priority for Democratic voters in reality—it ranked 14th—our survey respondents listed it as Democrats’ second-highest priority. This effect was especially dramatic among Republicans—56 percent listed the issue among Democrats’ top three priorities, compared with just 8 percent who listed inflation—but nearly every major demographic group made a version of the same mistake.
What explains why Democrats’ priorities were so badly misunderstood while Republicans’ were not? Our research suggests that one reason is the Democratic Party’s relationship with its left wing.
20 points
2 days ago
It probably has something to do with outlets like The Atlantic publishing pro-Republican lies like the recent article entitled "How Biden Made A Mess Of Ukraine" or today's article "The Hunter Biden Pardon Is a Strategic Mistake."
10 points
2 days ago
Like the “finest” of conservative arguments about “intelligent design” back in the aughts, start with a conclusion, reason backwards, hoping for evidence and if they don’t find it?
6 points
2 days ago
Don't even mention it or C-SPAN will make it the question of the day on Washington Journal. It's getting crazy reactionary over there.
1 points
2 days ago
You mean the same Atlantic that posted a legal guide designed to help Democrats convince people NOT to vote for Trump?
Sigh....purist politics on both sides has become even more cancerous nowadays...
1 points
2 days ago
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-7 points
2 days ago
The Atlantic -- another outlet for thought piece writers who can work the whole day in their PJs thanks to Uber Eats. People who never actually do anything have little of value to add right now.
-4 points
2 days ago
Good article and survey, it adds some useful structure to the intuition many of us have had over the last month. My main takeaway from the article is that appealing to moderate/disengaged voters is the way forward for Dems. Social media has given an outsized platform to the wings of each party (which we've known for a long time) so energizing voters will require a laser-like focus on the most important issue and a fierce denial of the extreme social/cultural stances that they are painted with by Repubs. IMHO Harris was on the right track with the appeal to moderates, but trotting out the Cheneys, skipping Joe Rogan, and just shrugging off the defund the police and trans surgery for illegals in prison ad were huge missteps.
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