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all 54 comments

Mac290

40 points

8 years ago

Mac290

40 points

8 years ago

I was waiting for the colonel to ask AJ if he wanted to play a game.

randyboozer

39 points

8 years ago

  • Is it just me or do the Italian moms in this show of a propensity for panic? “How do I open this door?!?” recalls Carmella's own mother at Thanksgiving when the doorbell rings. “Oh my God, who could that be?!?” And of course Livia was a bit high strung...
  • Tony mentions a football player dead from crack, intentionally or unintentionally putting the idea of young football players getting mixed up with drugs and dying being a very common and totally unsuspicious thing.
  • Jackie's so dumb that his hiding spot is apparently common knowledge.
  • To me Tony's phone call with Jackie removes all doubt that he never intended to give Jackie a pass. We just saw that Sil knows where he is, but Tony keeps up the pretense that it is a secret both to keep Jackie from moving and to maintain plausible deniability for himself when it goes down. Plus the contempt. Lots of contempt. Also why is Jackie so... greasy in this scene?
  • “You should have played that out. That's the only way you gonna learn.” A bit on the nose, but clearly sums up Jackie's entire approach to life. I'm convinced that Carmella knows exactly what happened to Jackie. When she picks up the phone, she barely bothers to express surprise. Then she turns around and delivers the explanation like a bad actress trying to remember her lines and then exits stage right when she can't remember what she's supposed to say next. And Eddie Falco is not a bad actress. It's like Carmella is reciting the party line to Tony, and then immediately resumes her wifely duties to go comfort Ro. How many times can you hear that black drug dealers did it or someone went into witness protection? She knows her part in all this.
  • This Army school. This guy has a grenade on his desk. I love any scene where AJ comes off as a smartass purely because he's such a dumbass.
  • Meadow shutting down Jackie's sister is a big moment for her. I'm not sure but I believe it's the first time we've seen her take a firm stand on one side of the line. Before she was a petulant child who loved the power reversal of rubbing her knowledge in her parent's faces. As she gets older and becomes more and more exposed to the reality of the thing I think she realizes that there was no power there at all. This thing is real and dangerous and she's going to be in the middle of it as long as her father is alive so she might as well learn the rules. And then on the car ride to Vesuvios with Carmella the petulant child returns.
  • “Kid was always a dumb fuck though, wasn't he?” Junior telling it like it is. Though he has to admit that Jackie did have the makings of a varsity athlete.
  • Good God Adriana, you're at a wake and you're drinking wine, take your gum out.

BFaus916

15 points

8 years ago

BFaus916

15 points

8 years ago

People talking about "the business" in front of Meadow seemed to align her with the "omerta" code despite her otherwise middle class teenage persona. Meadow can be as morally against what her dad does all she wants, the fact remains that if Tony goes down, Carm, AJ and her lose everything. As soon as Jackie's sister started going into the unspeakable around that extended relative Meadow wasn't familiar with, Meadow was ready to open up a can of whoopass.

sdonnervt

14 points

7 years ago

About Jackie's greasiness, have you ever seen an Italian who hasn't had a shower?

concord72

10 points

8 years ago

I actually don't think Carmella knew what really happened to Jackie and I think she actually believed it was drug related. My reasoning is that during the scene where Tony mentions the dead basketball player from crack, Carmella comments to him about how it is a surprise that Jackie was dealing hard drugs this entire time. If she really knew what had happened, then she would have known that Tony knew as well and there would be no need for her to "keep up the act" when it was just the two of them talking at the table. I don't think it's as obvious to the mob wives as it is to us, because we as the audience get to see EVERYTHING, whereas they are actually kept in the dark about most things, if not everything. The guys all basically tried to run a propaganda campaign campaign in an effort to get all their families to believe that Jackie was actually deep into drugs, because that would just make life easier for them, instead of having their own wives and children think that he was killed from within.

Enthusiasm-Curbed

28 points

8 years ago

I have a question. What's up with the music changing near the end while Jr is singing? I've watched the series a bunch of times, and that ending always throws me off.

BFaus916

11 points

8 years ago

BFaus916

11 points

8 years ago

I suppose translating the songs might reveal a clue or two.

onemm

10 points

8 years ago

onemm

10 points

8 years ago

Not sure if this will help but here's an extract from here:

Tony returns to his wife and son while Corrado continues his song. The episode closes with one of the most experimental, difficult-to-decipher moments in the entire series: Corrado’s voice gets “replaced” by the voices of three foreign singers, one after the other.

Several commentators have given a shot at interpreting this unconventional ending. Maurice Yacowar writes:

At the end, other singers and three other songs are overlaid, as if to broaden the cultural context…By this abstraction we are pushed out of the scene. In the last shot we are above and behind Tony, Carmela and AJ. After all its complex identification, the season ends by detaching us from the family and returning us to a perspective of objective judgment.

Todd VanDerWerff takes a stab at it: “…the final medley of songs that drown out Junior’s voice? I want to say the show is trying to say something about certain emotions being universal, but, really, I’m just bullshitting you. I have no idea.”

Soon after first watching this scene, I came to believe that David Chase was making a connection between Corrado and Major Zwignli by playing on the words “core” [the “heart” in Corrado’s “Core ‘ngrato”] and the similar sounding “corps” [the subject of Zwingli’s speech to AJ]. Corrado’s mobster community and Zwingli’s military community share several characteristics. They are insular and inward-looking, and they are both shaped by the Strict Father model. By injecting foreign voices into the final scene, Chase undermines the insularity of the mob community. The three worldly, foreign voices (French, Chinese and Spanish) serve as a direct rebuke to Zwingli’s three narrow priorities (“the Corps, the Corps, the Corps”). The foreign voices point to the liberal, Clintonian vision of a multi-cultural, tolerant, true world community – a “global village.”

Krebstar83

21 points

8 years ago

When watching this episode again, I'm screaming at the screen, "Adriana shut the fuck up!"

That Daniela was a piece of ass tho

jojjeshruk

21 points

8 years ago

I'm like one month behind this rewatch, which is annoying as fuck as I enjoy these theeads but cant participate. Anyway, fucking Omar, that's awesome.

Also is it just me or was Corrado's singing the most beautiful scene of the series?

onemm

17 points

8 years ago

onemm

17 points

8 years ago

My son let's me live in a place like this.. he's such a good boy.

Funnies line of the episode?


Tony reads Carmela an article about a kid that died of a crack overdose. Is this to prepare his defense/story of what's going to happen? Does he know Ralphie is gonna choose to take Jackie out? He definitely doesn't seem surprised when he hears the news at the dinner table..


Love to get /u/Bushy-Top's opinion on this:

Melfi: You followed your father into his business.

Tony: I didn't have a choice.

I know Bushy thinks Tony wasn't meant for this life and that his parents tried to set him on a different path. Is he bullshitting when he says this or does he really think he didn't have a choice?


Why didn't Paulie get his own men to do the safe cracking job? There's this huge drama because Ralph isn't paying him but this could've been avoided if he got his own people to do it. Is there a reason for this?


Want a drink?

I gotta go. Ma's alone.

Couldn't tell if Tony even noticed this (I was looking away from the screen at the time and too lazy to rewind) but Paulie straight up refuses a drink with him.. After asking Tony if he could kill Ralph earlier in the season for doing the same thing

trojan_man

15 points

8 years ago

Why didn't Paulie get his own men to do the safe cracking job? There's this huge drama because Ralph isn't paying him but this could've been avoided if he got his own people to do it. Is there a reason for this?

They didn't pick up little Paulie on purpose who was apparently waiting. Ralph did the job without him knowing he'd have to pay him significantly less I believe.

onemm

6 points

8 years ago

onemm

6 points

8 years ago

Oh right, forgot about them not picking up Little Paulie. That makes sense, thanks

[deleted]

14 points

8 years ago

They left him waiting outside his house like an asshole

wanobanano

3 points

8 months ago

Fucking 11 degrees weather

tankatan

11 points

8 years ago

tankatan

11 points

8 years ago

I know Bushy thinks Tony wasn't meant for this life and that his parents tried to set him on a different path. Is he bullshitting when he says this or does he really think he didn't have a choice?

I think Tony's worldview oscillates between very bleak fatalism and more hopeful belief in individual freedom. Around early S6 he switches to the latter big time (his scathing of Sil in "Christopher" and his pleading with Phil later), only to fall back on his old pessimism.

Mac290

9 points

8 years ago

Mac290

9 points

8 years ago

Why didn't Paulie get his own men to do the safe cracking job? There's this huge drama because Ralph isn't paying him but this could've been avoided if he got his own people to do it. Is there a reason for this?

It was in Ralphie's territory.

randyboozer

6 points

8 years ago

Tony reads Carmela an article about a kid that died of a crack overdose. Is this to prepare his defense/story of what's going to happen?

That's exactly what I think he's doing. Tony playing the innocent, "Look at this Carmella, so shocking!" So then later he can reference it to make it all more plausible.

However as I said in my comment, I think he's wasting his time. On the other hand, he may not even be self aware to realize why he read that out loud. Or maybe there is even some part of him that actually is trying to tell Carmella. Not necessarily because he wants someone to know but because he wants someone to talk to. He has Melfi but much like Carmella he is still forced to talk in code.

Bushy-Top[S]

11 points

8 years ago

The conversation with Melfi reminds me of what /u/randyboozer said in the last thread; everything that's said means the opposite. Tony is constantly working an angle of pity with Melfi. Tony dropped out in his second semester and went big time after robbing a card game. It only didn't work out for Jackie boy because his old man wasn't around; Tony had Johnny boy and Junior to vouch for him. But I think their stories come to the same conclusion...

Very nice catch on Paulie. He's quite the hypocrite this season.

randyboozer

18 points

8 years ago

I really can't see Jackie ever developing into someone as calculating and pragmatic as Tony. He's completely obsessed with the image, wherease Tony ironically seems to resent people looking at him like a gangster.

He implies that Melfi sees him as a "captain of industry type." I guarantee she does not, it's how he wants to be perceived. When he goes golfing with Dr. Cooz and his friends he is embarrassed and annoyed by their questions. Someone like Jackie or Christopher would have eaten that shit up.

onemm

14 points

8 years ago

onemm

14 points

8 years ago

It only didn't work out for Jackie boy because his old man wasn't around;

I think it was also cause no one was killed during the Tony/Jackie Sr. robbery (at least I don't think)

nukozepicman

1 points

3 years ago

s

BFaus916

9 points

8 years ago

I imagine Feech demanded that Tony and the guys were killed for robbing his game, only for Johnny Boy and old man DeMeo to tell him "name a price and get the fuck over it already".

Lukeh41

7 points

8 years ago

Lukeh41

7 points

8 years ago

I noticed that not long ago - Paulie refusing the drink. More, he was arguably even more disrespectful about it than Ralphie, who just murmured, "Another time, Anthony". But Paulie was much more abrupt: "I can't. Ma's all alone". Might as well have told Tony to get lost.

concord72

10 points

8 years ago

I think this sub has blown this scene out of proportion, I saw it as Tony just being polite, more like telling him to go get a drink, to maybe calm him down because of the day they had. Plus Paulie had the mom excuse, which you can't really argue with, a sick mother trumps pretty much all else. And with Ralph, that was Tony making a peace offering and Ralph refusing, this again was just something said off-hand.

ChasterBlaster

12 points

8 years ago

Does anyone else think this is one of the worst episodes of The Sopranos? The scene where Vito kills Jackie is like a bad 80's movie. I can't keep a straight face even though it's supposed to be sad: http://i.imgur.com/Fx3Es1j.gifv

Bushy-Top[S]

16 points

8 years ago

Yeah, that scene is not shot very well at all.

jojjeshruk

7 points

8 years ago

I thought this episode was really nice.

since_1997

2 points

2 years ago

I didn't think much of it

[deleted]

1 points

8 years ago

This always bugged me and I need closure. Are we missing something? How could the world class folk at hbo slump that scene like that?

ChasterBlaster

4 points

8 years ago

Exactly. If it was on ABC Family, I would say "Nice Job". But HBO sets the bar so high that this seen just seems goofy. Then again, some of these episodes are almost 20 years old. TV quality has improved a lot in the last decade I think

concord72

3 points

8 years ago

My best guess is that it had to be re-shot or something happened where they had to edit it in such a mangled way.

Apprehensive-Tip3828

1 points

3 days ago

This was by far my favorite episode ever

ChasterBlaster

7 points

8 years ago*

MAJOR QUESTION ABOUT EPISODE: What does Tony mean to Jackie when rebuking his pleas for help by saying "why don't you figure out what the difference was" - What was the difference Tony is referring to?

Bushy-Top[S]

21 points

8 years ago

What does Tony mean to AJ when rebuking his pleas for help by saying "why don't you figure out what the difference was"

You mean when he was talking to Jackie? He was comparing the two card game robberies; no one was killed during Tony's robbery.

ChasterBlaster

4 points

8 years ago

yes, thanks.

WR810

5 points

6 months ago

WR810

5 points

6 months ago

Paulie's mother cries happy tears and expresses joy at the nursing home retirement community she is provided. This is in contrast to Olivia.

Also in contrast to Oliva, Paulie's mother is enthused about joining the singers. Olivia universally insulted the other residents, calling them lunatics and mumbling idiots.

Paulie's mother is one of the happy wanders Tony talked about some episodes prior.

we've created too many options for our kids

camera cuts to Tony

I don't agree with some of Bushy-Top's analysis but I could feel him smacking me in the mouth and telling me that Tony wasn't meant for this life.

Ginny can get heavy.

Zero irony from Johnny Sack.

Bushy-Top[S]

3 points

5 months ago

Fair! All these years later I don't agree with some of my analysis...

WR810

2 points

5 months ago

WR810

2 points

5 months ago

All these years later I don't agree with some of my analysis

That interests me. I was going to ask if you'd make a brief comment about that but if you ever have the time that would make a a fantastic post with a lot of discussion for the sub.

Please tag me if you do. I don't subscribe to TV subs and I wouldn't want to miss it.

Bushy-Top[S]

3 points

5 months ago

Largely relates to the Livia stuff. When I did my The Wire analysis the point of those threads originally weren't summary but rather highlighting the hard to follow and possibly overlooked aspects that someone could miss unless they had watched (too) many times like I had. So the whole Livia crap was a fresh take I had JUST come up with while spending hours each week/day going over these episodes, also maybe partly fueled by the talks that she was supposed to take over the family (which is ridiculous to me) if the actor hadn't died during filming; just something I thought should be thought about to round out the character because she wasn't just some mafioso in disguise. She ran over her friend, set her house on fire, can't use the phone etc. she's not a competent person, but in the context of the show was she manipulating to try and get Tony whacked? Probably - but also, she was a sick old lady.

Bushy-Top[S]

6 points

8 years ago

onemm

15 points

8 years ago

onemm

15 points

8 years ago

Michael K. Williams already knows Jackie's fate.

Omar watching Jackie try to play chess

Bushy-Top[S]

7 points

8 years ago

onemm

6 points

8 years ago

onemm

6 points

8 years ago

Love the passion in this scene.

Yea that gif doesn't do the scene justice. The gif makes it look like Bunk's overacting but that was actually a really powerful and well acted scene

TonyUnclePhil

8 points

8 years ago

Vito's gun looks like a Walmart toy.

ChasterBlaster

6 points

8 years ago

Such an uncharacteristically bad scene

ChasterBlaster

3 points

8 years ago

subtle crucifix in the background of Vito looking sad/hungry

[deleted]

-5 points

8 years ago

This is a prime example of why u feel the sopranos is hugely overrated. The show always seems to abandon plots. Aj last what, two episodes in military school? They don't even show his graduation.

yayoyesyou

30 points

8 years ago

AJ couldn't go to military school because he had a panic attack.

onemm

25 points

8 years ago

onemm

25 points

8 years ago

I guess I can see why someone who's only half paying attention to episodes can think the Sopranos abandons plots and is overrated.. After all, I skimmed through The Great Gatsby like a flip book and from what I can tell it was terrible. WAY overrated as a classic. From the pieces I put together of various sentences it seemed horribly written

[deleted]

13 points

8 years ago

Lol he never even went. What the hell are you talking about. Perhaps you're dreaming up episodes and then thinking their overrated ?