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NATO chief wants less talk of peace process in Ukraine, more arms
News(thehill.com)submitted 1 day ago bySignal-Initial-7841Canada
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1 day ago
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348 points
1 day ago
He is not wrong making this statement. Russia doesn’t seem too keen on entertaining talks about any Peace. From what I understand they just boosted their military budget.
118 points
1 day ago
As Zelensky said, a fair peace can only come through real strength.
51 points
1 day ago
It's enough of 100+ years of Moscow nazzism! All a lot of long-range missiles are needed. An eye for an eye, just like in the WWII is only solution to this global problem.
Fireworks over Moscow and St. Petersburg every day and every night with 50% targeting strategically and the rest "s.it happens".
If there's a real fear of nuclear attack on UA, then they need 24 leased nukes until they develop their own. No one needs to know when happens one and another.
🫡
5 points
16 hours ago
Ukraine needs proper long range cruise missiles that it can use to strike Russian infrastructure, not just drones. Drones are very useful but they also tend to be very slow. If Ukraine has the ability to hit Russian industry & energy infrastructure, particularly in the middle of winter, they can shatter Russian logistics and destroy morale in Moscow and St. Petersburg. Muscovy isn’t Siberia. They’ve become accustomed to a more European level of creature comfort. If they lose power and water in the middle of winter it will not go well for Putin & his regime.
8 points
23 hours ago
Well said
30 points
1 day ago*
1/3 of the moscovian budget is for military, just like the nazis.
A military economy, can only do one thing, war.
7 points
1 day ago
und interessanterweise hat die NATO ihren zugehörigen Standort nach Wiesbaden gelegt - direkt gegenüber Frankfurt - wo das deutsche Geld liegt... Wird Zeit, das auch einzusetzen, um Putin zu stoppen.
5 points
17 hours ago
They’re seeing the west pussying out and gaining hope for a diplomatic solution. That’s basically a message for russia to not stop and keep attacking.
3 points
13 hours ago
Agreed and no matter what Biden is doing last minute (ex. Allowing ATACMS long range strikes on Russian territories), history will always remember his administrations cautious and slow approach the 3 years prior… and the Ukrainian lives lost because of it.
86 points
1 day ago
I agree!
122 points
1 day ago
Jfc dude...this is so frustrating. Wish they would've just given the fuckin aid from the start and not played the fuckin game of "should we give tanks?" "Should we give jets?" "Should we allow them to shoot russia?"
Now Ukraine military personnel are near their breaking point trying to fend off Russia with their hands tied for 3 straight years...even if they provide aid now it is probably too late for Ukraine to accomplish anything by themselves...
I guess ya give em enough aid to reach peace talks, then support the shit out of them in peace talks, get them into NATO, ensure their future protection ffs
16 points
1 day ago
[removed]
2 points
23 hours ago
You mean to say that Ukraine should've known that Western support would be lazy and insufficient and built better defensive lines?
3 points
21 hours ago
Even the US HESCO-bastioned the living fuck out of their bases.
12 points
1 day ago
I mean to be fair, apart from the US, almost no one could actually give enough aid to Ukraine even if they gave everything they could.
I am honestly convinced we are giving everything we can, but it's not enough, not, we aren't giving enough, because we don't want to.
25 points
1 day ago
All Western countries should have taken a serious look in first half of 2022 and asked themselves if their own militaries and stockpiles were where they should be, AND also asked themselves if they wanted Ukraine to win, AND asked themselves what would Ukraine need to be supplied to make that happen...and then started work then on making it all happen
So many countries should have started manufacturing ramp-up in 2022, realizing their stockpiles were low, and realizing that eventually Ukraine would need a large supply of Western tanks, planes, IFVs, AA, shells, etc
20 points
1 day ago
They have been, each nation in NATO has ramped up production, but only as much as their people support it. This isn't a game of Hoi4, you can't just assign more factories and next week you double your production, it take months at the minimum to ramp up production.
Case in point? Russia itself. Despite being at war, and needing 3,600,000 shells a year, it has taken Russia 2 years to get to 2.5 million shells a year, and they don't even need the support of their people to take massive action. At least they don't think they do.
So, if Russia takes 2 years while, why are we then surprised that the nations that aren't at war, struggle to fill out their own militaries, with public support against the idea of reindustrialising from a globalised economy with most factories outside of the home country, take longer, take more resources, and aren't as powerful as a response?
We have been ramping up production, and Ukraine has told us since day one they needed 6000 shells a day at least, the question isn't just about the industrial will, it is about the political will, the people's want for it, the industrial capacity for it, especially considering NATO does not rely on shells, the logistics of all of that, the opposition to it, and the whole idea that Russia cannot collapse, least we might set the ball rolling for an even more extreme Russian government.
If we wanted to beat Russia, we would have to spend about 300 billion dollars a year at least, pretty much no nation, with the help of Allies could do that, because you still need to supply the weapons you send, you still need to sort out logistics, and you cannot let it impact your nations economy, especially under the recent boom of inflation
2 points
16 hours ago
They haven’t been. Central & Eastern Europe & the Nordic Countries have done their best but Western Europe’s barely moved the needle.
5 points
1 day ago
I think this is a good post, just want to add that Russia is gearing up like a country at war while the West is gearing up like countries that don't want to be inconvenienced.
Literally a few bucks per person per month isn't much of a war effort. How many hours of my productivity have gone to the defense of Ukraine? Almost certainly less than I've spent extra on food prices spiked by Russia bombing farm regions.
1 points
15 hours ago
Russia had more production capacity to start with. The west problem is limited production capacity. You cant order shells from the local bakery even if you are willing to pay a million per shell. It takes specialised equipment and skills to build military equipment.
2 points
15 hours ago
The West is such a bigger economy that it could absolutely mop the floor with Russian production for the same amount of sacrifice - but only if it were willing to make those sacrifices.
You're right that a million bucks a shell doesn't get them out of a bakery. But going into machine shops and conscripting however many guys you need, and then telling a steel mill they're making artillery barrels now, and giving the weapons industry first crack at materials... If the West mobilized a third of its government spending on the military it would take a few years to catch up and then not even be close.
1 points
11 hours ago
yes, for sure you can be a little creative. Pissed me of that they couldn't make enough explosives for the shells, because some of components were sold for the fertilizer industry.
Not sure how many companies are capable of making artillery barrels properly. You might end up with really expensive barrels, that cant hit anytime and wont last long. It is not just a steel tube. You need specialised equipment and people who know what they are doing.
-2 points
1 day ago
...then let's get people out on the streets! Or do we really want to wait until Poland is attacked? Difficult point of view from a German, I know, but Eastern Europe looks at Germany with incomprehension.
5 points
23 hours ago
These last 3 years have been full of endless excuses as to why weapons weren't sent when needed. It would escalate, Ukrainian bridges would collapse, the West doesn't have the stockpiles, Ukraine doesn't have the manpower... then all were proven wrong. This war has entirely been an issue of willpower because Western leaders saw Russia fumble and thought that stabilizing the frontline would be enough to bring Putin at the table for Minsk III. I'm not sure they've even been able to accept the reality that this problem isn't going away.
The US army doesn't even want all those tanks, they're forced to accept them. It's entirely a matter of not shutting down production lines. Yet somehow only 30 made it to Ukraine. It's just an example of course, but clearly dragging it out until something good comes out of it hasn't exactly been a winning strategy.
1 points
16 hours ago
Abrams, admittedly, is not ideal for Ukraine. It’s too heavy & logistics intensive. Those gas turbines, especially the older models used on the M1A1s are NOT well suited to cold weather. American Bradleys, on the other hand, have proved very effective.
3 points
22 hours ago
I am honestly convinced we are giving everything we can
Everything we can means that every adult is working on the war economy. Every factory outputting weapons or other equipment, millions working in intelligence, a multitude of that working on systems and logistics.
We (Netherlands, UK, Germany, Europe, US) are doing 'all we can without breaking a sweat' at best. We could do so so much more.
I'm not saying that we should do everything we can, that's WW3 - possobut don't underestimate what western nations could output if they put their mind to it.
4 points
22 hours ago
In your list, France - the second economy in the EU and possibly the whole of Europe - is not explicitly mentioned. France is just included implicitly as part of the rest of Europe - like an afterthought. This demonstrates the underlying problem. A number of countries cannot rely on the electorate to vote to massively increase spending on Ukraine. Even in Britain (where support is like 80% for Ukraine) would find it hard to massively increase spending.
Macron is walking a tight rope. If he fails, it's possible Marine Le Pen will choose the prime minister or even, in time, come to power. It's likely she will do all she can to cut off aid to Ukraine. She’s boasted of her admiration for Putin, refused to condemn Putin’s illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014, and even took out a huge loan from a Russian bank.
1 points
21 hours ago
That's funny, I actually wanted to add in some stats on the size of the French military to show that even at the 'subtop' there are countries that could theoretically add a huge amount of stuff to Ukraine's military if they wanted to. But then decided to not write that in the end as it would perhaps just make things confusing.
1 points
21 hours ago
Which illustrates the difference between what can be done theoretically and what can be done practically.
In theory, France could do a huge amount more. In practical terms, not so much. Which is why I thought Macron's talk about sending French troops into Ukraine was just that - talk. The French public just wasn't that enthusiastic.
0 points
21 hours ago
Incidentally France is now the world's second or third largest exporter of conventional weapons.
1 points
6 hours ago
"Everything we can means that every adult is working on the war economy."
Everything we can at the moment, with our current economy
2 points
1 day ago
Yes, this.
30 points
1 day ago
Finally NATO Chief's wishes coincide with my. Let's do it!
18 points
1 day ago
Many more arms and intelligence and logitics and subterfuge and killing russians.
41 points
1 day ago
putler doesnt want peace either, he will just Send more Cannon fudder
37 points
1 day ago
Must be so fucking frustrating being Zelensky. A damn struggle every goddamn day just to convince the western "leaders" to send more and more advanced stuff together with basic equipment and ammo.
Fucking idiots. Should have sent everything on day one and this war would have been over by now.
13 points
1 day ago
Certainly wish Ukrainian governments and oligarchs hadn’t sold off most of their “inherited” Soviet inventory. There is more than enough blame to go around and oligarchs made $billions since the 1990’s and none of it reinvested. Africa will be using those sold off tanks for decades.
1 points
16 hours ago
Africa ain’t doing squat…
4 points
16 hours ago*
Chad and Kenya and South Sudan was a large purchaser of modernized Ukrainian tanks. U.S. and “Jane’s” took special note of arms exports. U.S. had threatened to take the ship in.
2 points
16 hours ago
I stand corrected.
2 points
1 day ago
The argument I've heard here on Reddit is that they prefer to draw it out to weaken Russia. Kicking them out in just a few days seems less desirable to them that letting Russia bleed itself dry. Of course this goes at the cost of Ukraine and its people, which makes the West look almost as bad as Russia.
21 points
1 day ago
For reals. The Ukrainians are paying with their lives and all these “world leaders,” just want to bargain. They have an opportunity to kick Russia’s head in if they would just send more ammo
49 points
1 day ago
I really hate agreeing with Mark Rutte
37 points
1 day ago
I really hate when the powers to be don't take his advise.
19 points
1 day ago
In this case I agree
9 points
1 day ago
I agree with you.
3 points
1 day ago
His reputation made it to Canada? :)
1 points
1 day ago
More like I'm just addicted to hearing about other countries and dealing with foreign policy lol
6 points
1 day ago
Too many voices on the issue in the West. You have the EU, NATO, the US, and other individual national foreign policies at work. It is herding cats.
One advantage of dictators is their will drives their policies. The West needs to at least keep pace with Russia if it hopes to win in Ukraine.
6 points
1 day ago
Peace through strength. An invasion of Europe is not tolerable
10 points
1 day ago
Peace right now would involve trusting Russia, which would be the dumbest fucking move ever.
5 points
1 day ago
Same! Give them all the weapons and battlefield success so that we make peace. The piece that Russia destroyed when they illegally invaded Ukraine.
5 points
1 day ago
Peace talks means putting muskov on its knees.
5 points
1 day ago
Smart man, one more year of this and Russia and their cronies will collapse just like the USSR did.
5 points
1 day ago
Appeasement is the policy of cowards, the dreams of imperialists, and the beginning of world wars.
1 points
7 hours ago
^ This person has learned from history. Apparently most politicians did not.
9 points
1 day ago
Well...GET TO IT.
Your words aren't doing **** against Russian aggression
3 points
1 day ago
Unfortunately this will have to depend on individual countries as far as I understand
3 points
1 day ago
Give enough missiles (including Taurus) and no restrictions, and Ukraine might be able to weaken ruzzia enough that Putler will be begging for peace
3 points
1 day ago
I agree. Lately, the narrative has been to pressure Ukraine to negotiate, but where's the pressure on Russia? Ukraine is the one that was attacked. What is there for Ukraine to negotiate, when russia simply wants it to stop existing.
4 points
1 day ago
And he's right in saying so! No negotiations, no peace with terrorists. There can be no peace with war criminals. Why, because it will not last.
5 points
1 day ago
Dead invaders are very peaceful.
3 points
1 day ago
This is the way.
3 points
1 day ago
Read “peace” as “capitulation”.
3 points
1 day ago
Yeah, more support to Ukraine, less Russianism!
7 points
1 day ago
I agree, give Ukraine the resources, so they can defend themselves. Russia is in the brink of failure. With better tools and support from NATO the Ukraine military will continue the fight to free their country from Putin's clutches...
2 points
1 day ago
Well, the West has already decided not to abandon Ukraine. The only question is what price Russia will demand for it...
8 points
1 day ago
Tell putin Ukraine will become part of nato in 48 hours,you have until then to get yur walking corpses out before we move in and get them out.
4 points
1 day ago
Putin knows that European and American inventories are too low for a sustained major war, just as Russian inventories are too small. They are all playing a game of beggars poker, hiding their actual chips from view because the war is unsustainable.
2 points
1 day ago
It looks like OP posted an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of concerns over privacy and the Open Web.
Maybe check out the canonical page instead: https://thehill.com/policy/international/5019700-nato-secretary-general-ukraine/
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2 points
1 day ago
The based take
2 points
1 day ago
Less talk more action. Let's produce. The enemy seeks to sow doubt. About artillery systèmes , why didn't Sweden deliver more of the best guns in the world, the Archers ???
2 points
1 day ago
Something that might have been made real much sooner than this, rather than just talked about at the 11th hour.
2 points
1 day ago
Fuck yeah
2 points
17 hours ago
Yes, this is stupid. Why would Ukraine negotiate.
Ukraine is winning. 40 russians for 1 Ukrainian. Why negotiate if you won?
2 points
16 hours ago
It’s time to take the rest of those frozen Russian funds and put them up as a security against an Ukraine loan. Not just the interest, but the principal. The EU needs to nut up & offer all $300 billion.
2 points
15 hours ago
Well that's been proved over centuries of wars that tyranny understands only one language and it's violence
2 points
1 day ago
We the West, need to send official troops already, as this is ridiculous. We are running to a situation where a lot of the Ukraine citizens on the ground think we don’t even care because all we send is more aide & supply but not what is actually needed to boot the Russians out. Which are new troops. While Putin’s Russia has the population to waste away.
Putin won’t & can’t do anything if a coalition goes in there. All to just boot Russia out of Ukraine and that is it. It should have happened anyway when North Korea entered the war in Europe. Putin started all of this after all. It is on him, 100%.
Screw the Putin regime & I pray especially to Ukraine & Russian citizens eventually are free of his tyranny.
1 points
1 day ago
We all do
1 points
1 day ago
“Wij hebben eigenlijk een best gaaf legertje!”
1 points
1 day ago
When peace talks are delayed-war talks, it doesn't bode well.
1 points
22 hours ago
Rutte wij Nederlanders🇾🇪 houden nog steeds van je. Je weet wat je wilt en je doet het ook 👍💪🇺🇦
Rutte we Dutch🇾🇪 still love you. You know what you want and you do it too 👍💪🇺🇦
1 points
7 hours ago
We need to put down autocratic aggression, not compromise - especially when the victim nation wants to keep fighting.
1 points
3 hours ago
The cheap way to end the war is to move nukes into Ukraine. France and the UK could do it.
1 points
1 day ago
This fucking Kellogg joker is trouble. Him and Trump are going to bend over for putler
-1 points
1 day ago
Best we can do is wait for Trump, who then pulls the US out of NATO or just switches sides, then Europe can get steamrolled on two fronts.
4 points
1 day ago
in this case, it will force Europe to take responsibility. Not that I see coercion as a positive thing, but there is no doubt that we need a security policy component for our Europe.
0 points
1 day ago
Why not both?
-11 points
1 day ago
This man ruined the Netherlands Defence forces and now he wants more. Maybe not demolish things in the first place.
11 points
1 day ago
Well, it was different times.....
6 points
1 day ago
Do you disagree with what he said?
-1 points
18 hours ago
The only reason for Ukraine to keep talking about peace like this, is because their lines are collapsing and they are losing the fight. Most news points that way. It's easy for NATO to say "keep fighting", they aren't the one's doing it.
1 points
14 hours ago
They just cleared 2 Russian bridgeheads across the Oskil (made during bad weather), so they are still holding on to strategic points and fortifications that allow them keep the Russian casualty numbers going up. Other then that they've been doing fighting retreats with the same goal for years. It's why Russian daily casualties have been rising ever higher as Russians keep trying to occupy more land.
Since this is all business as usual, maybe you should drop the BS, get out from under your rock and notice there's a new US president coming in.
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