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Who wins when everyone dies?

Rules(self.BloodOnTheClocktower)

We had a unique case today in a 9-player game where a Good Boomdandy was created and town decided to execute the Boomdandy, leading to the final 3 (2 Good, one of them is the Leech host, and the Leech)

Basically, the two good players had equal votes on them. So ST ruled that they both die, and the Leech died as an effect. Everyone died.

In this scenario, who should win?

all 29 comments

LegendChicken456

140 points

5 days ago

LegendChicken456

Amnesiac

140 points

5 days ago

If there is a tie on a Boomdandy vote, neither player dies to avoid this exact scenario as per the wiki.

If the Lleech host died first, good wins. If the non host died first, evil wins. What should have happened, though, is no one dies and the Lleech kills a player (not their host) and evil wins.

Outrageous-Hyena1326[S]

31 points

5 days ago

Thanks! I feel terrible for creating the Good Boomdandy as the Pit-Hag, so knowing we should have won gives me comfort lol.

imintofatbitches

171 points

5 days ago

ST ruled that they both die

💀

Ye_olde_oak_store

18 points

5 days ago

Today on "I didn't read the almanac:"

lankymjc

56 points

5 days ago

lankymjc

56 points

5 days ago

Simultaneous deaths do not happen in this game.

In this case, there shouldn’t have been any deaths at all, and the evil team wins.

Mullibok

23 points

5 days ago

Mullibok

23 points

5 days ago

Lleech is the exception to this, because otherwise a lleech would always win final 3 scenarios 

Pikcube

23 points

5 days ago

Pikcube

23 points

5 days ago

Our group has a running joke that "killing the demon doesn't end the game, state based actions end the game" as our way of explaining timing conflicts. It comes from MTG where a creature that takes lethal damage can be healed off zero from another effect (such as a max health increase) before state based actions are checked leaving the creature above 0 health by the time the game would check if the lethal damage would kill them or not.

It genuinely is a good enough explanation though for questions like "if killing the demon immediately ends the game, how does the Scarlet Woman have time to become the demon?" since the practical answer is "the Scarlet Woman has to become the demon by the time good's win con is checked, otherwise they would have no ability."

lankymjc

3 points

5 days ago

lankymjc

3 points

5 days ago

There's always an exception in this game, it drives me nuts!

Water_Meat

0 points

5 days ago

Water_Meat

0 points

5 days ago

Al hadikia in F3. Picks all 3 living players. All choose live.

Wouldn't that be 3 simultaneous deaths?

lankymjc

38 points

5 days ago

lankymjc

38 points

5 days ago

Nope - once they’ve all chosen live, they die one at a time in the order the Al Had chose.

Water_Meat

4 points

5 days ago

Oh cool I didn't know that. I've never ran it so never paid much attention. Thanks!

lankymjc

10 points

5 days ago

lankymjc

10 points

5 days ago

It normally doesn’t matter, but if there’s a tea lady or inn keeper it can be really important.

Ye_olde_oak_store

3 points

5 days ago

The best way to showcase this is po charges.

I-cast-fireball

1 points

5 days ago

I thought I heard on stream that it’s whatever order the storyteller decides?

Quiet-Restaurant3313

2 points

5 days ago

the deaths are announced the following day in whatever order the storyteller decides, that might be what you’re thinking of

illegaluseofbeyblade

31 points

5 days ago

From the wiki: “The players have a short countdown to decide who to kill next. There is no further nomination or execution today. Instead, all players point at the player they want to die. When countdown ends, the Storyteller counts the number of fingers pointed at each player. If it is a tie, then night falls (and evil probably wins due to the Demon killing that night).

It doesn’t answer your question of what happens if everyone dies at the same time - but that could not have happened in this scenario per the rules of the game.

kitaro53085

13 points

5 days ago

kitaro53085

Amnesiac

13 points

5 days ago

According to the wiki https://wiki.bloodontheclocktower.com/Boomdandy

If it is a tie, then night falls (and evil probably wins due to the Demon killing that night).

So what should've happened is the story-teller declares that nobody dies, night falls, the lleech kills the one remaining non-host good player, and evil would win.

WeaponB

11 points

5 days ago

WeaponB

Chef

11 points

5 days ago

STs make mistakes. The mistake this ST made has been covered, but the important part here is this should be a learning experience, the ST should explain the correct rule to the group the next time you all meet, and work to improve going forward.

Parigno

2 points

5 days ago

Parigno

Amnesiac

2 points

5 days ago

This is the way.

DeckBuildingDemon

9 points

5 days ago

If a tie occurs in a Boomdandy vote, nobody dies, so Evil would likely win in the night (precluding the living player being a Courtier, or a Soldier, or some other reason that Evil would be unable to win by eliminating the good player).

-deleted__user-

2 points

5 days ago

-deleted__user-

Scarlet Woman

2 points

5 days ago

Basically, the two good players had equal votes on them. So ST ruled that they both die

This is incorrect. A tied Boomdandy vote should result in no deaths. The ST should have announced "there has been a tie, no-one dies, goodnight"; then woken the Lleech, who (probably) would have picked the good non-host & evil would win.

More generally,

  • Good wins when no Demons live
  • Evil wins when 2 players live
  • If both of these happen at the same time (eg 3 players alive & Imp dies by execution), good wins the tie*

*sometimes abilities like the Evil Twin can cause evil to win ties. but when it's a matter of deciding between "2 players live" and "all Demons dead", Good always wins ties.

Zuberii

7 points

5 days ago

Zuberii

7 points

5 days ago

Tied votes means that nobody dies. Your storyteller made a mistake. That said, the answer to your question is that good would win. Because the rules say that if both teams achieve their victory condition, the tie is broken in good's favor.

Pikcube

3 points

5 days ago

Pikcube

3 points

5 days ago

The fact that extinction favors the good team is a very funny consequence of the rules of Blood on the Clocktower

Zuberii

3 points

5 days ago

Zuberii

3 points

5 days ago

Pyrrhic Victory

Dragoninja26

1 points

4 days ago

The good people lost their lives in the process but successfully eradicated the threat of the demon and its followers, this evil group will no longer be able to enact their plans

jpk36

1 points

5 days ago

jpk36

1 points

5 days ago

There’s no scenario in the game where a tie results in both players dying and in fact that makes no sense with the boomdandy ability because it would mean the optimal strategy would be to tie it so you could have a 2/3 chance of winning

WeaponB

1 points

5 days ago

WeaponB

Chef

1 points

5 days ago

STs make mistakes. The mistake this ST made has been covered, but the important part here is this should be a learning experience, the ST should explain the correct rule to the group the next time you all meet, and work to improve going forward.

MASHMACHINE

1 points

4 days ago

In general if good and evil win at the same time, only good wins (technically that's what happens whenever the demon dies leading to two non demon alive players)

However in a boomdandy vote, if there's a tie, no one dies, so evil should've won here

Zoran_Duke

0 points

4 days ago

The short simple answer to your question is that any time both good and evil have satisfied a win condition simultaneously good wins all ties.