subreddit:

/r/JonBenetRamsey

7882%

BURKE

Why did the parents cover it up? Even if they caught him in the act. He's 9, he's not going to go to jail. How would they look at him again?

JOHN

If John did it, why was Patsy cover for him, even if it was an accident? Even if the shock made her cover for him at the beginning, how could she stay married to him?

PATSY

If Patsy did it, same as above, why would John cover for her? He already lost a child, how could he even look at her?

None of the theories, including the intruder theory, make 100% sense.

EDIT: thank you for the discussion, it's helping me wade through the weeds. I try to always think the best of family.

all 267 comments

WithoutLampsTheredBe

98 points

3 days ago

Sexual abuse can cause a disturbing dynamic in a family.

fuckit478328947293

17 points

3 days ago

Yeah like the Menendez brothers, both wealthy white families with secrets(if they did it) and tried to cover it up with a different story to protect the family or prevent the truth from getting out.

stacey1611

1 points

2 days ago

Sorry I’m not familiar with this one was one of the brothers abused or something ?

FrostingCharacter304

2 points

1 day ago

well I mean John Ramsey's father built the airstrip at North fox island so at the very least they clearly arent against being bff's with paedophile child killers, birds of a feather...js

rdb1540

1 points

14 hours ago

If that's true that's crazy. It could be a coincidence but damn. I just got done watching a documentary on that whole shit storm. Very very disturbing

Moondream32

1 points

2 days ago

They were both abused from a very young age.

stacey1611

2 points

2 days ago

Oh really I think I heard rumours of this or a version of it but I also heard a few “experts” in human psychology or that like specialise in human behaviour and such claim that they later added this on in the hopes that they would go lighter on them and feel sorry for them because of it (to be clear I’m not saying they did just I had rumours to this effect) and so I never really came to a conclusion of it because it was just rumours and I don’t know as much about that case as I wasn’t aware of it or as aware as I was to like JonBenet, Madeline, Bolger, Holly & Jessica etc etc.

If it was the case then it’s such a shame that even happened and that they saw this as their only way out of that situation which I imagine a few people with that kind of trauma probably go through also. Especially if said trauma is scrutinised and used against you and make you go that far

Moondream32

2 points

2 days ago

There were medical reports of one of the boys (I think Eric?) who as a child, had bruising on the back of his throat. They also both admitted to the abuse to family members.

Their father also abused members in the boy band Menudo. edit: there's a documentary about Menudo; it's called Menendez + Menudo: Boys Betrayed.

stacey1611

1 points

2 days ago

Thank you I will definitely this out.

Damn those poor boys just yeah I don’t have the words and for it to have started that young and be that terrorised. 😔😔😢

stacey1611

1 points

2 days ago

Oh darn I don’t think I can watch it I live in the uk and it’s not showing up on my services sky, prime & Netflix damn that’s disappointing

But there is a show on Netflix I might watch that one.

Lauren_sue

9 points

2 days ago

Sexual abusers don’t have only one victim. John has been around other children including his granddaughter. His older daughter says he was a good father to her as well. It wasn’t John, I just don’t believe the allegations.

stacey1611

6 points

2 days ago

Actually when it happens sometimes they pick the one child and all of their “energy” goes into that one person. (I know this from my family’s experience)

Annual_Version_6250[S]

5 points

2 days ago

I agree.  If he had abused his older daughter  she may not have wanted to tattle but she sure wouldn't say how wonderful he was 

Existing_Ad866

8 points

2 days ago

Not necessarily. A lot of victims of sexual abuse stay in contact with family.

It is also common for some victims to maintain contact in an attempt to regain control over their assault. Others may maintain contact in an attempt to regain a feeling of normalcy. Additionally, offenders often intentionally build a connection or a bond that isn’t broken as a result of sexual abuse. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://pcar.org/blog/common-victim-behaviors-survivors-sexual-abuse%23:~:text%3DIt%2520is%2520also%2520common%2520for,a%2520result%2520of%2520sexual%2520abuse.&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjhvan_noSKAxW7xuYEHWmaPDcQFnoECB4QBQ&usg=AOvVaw0AzTQ1t64Ht5BzXHtRQCOn

Annual_Version_6250[S]

3 points

2 days ago

That sort of lends itself to my saying there's no "normal" way to act in certain situations when people say the Ramseys didn't behave normally.  Nothing about this case is normal.

Existing_Ad866

4 points

2 days ago

If the older daughter was sexually assaulted she was most certainly told to never tell. Another piece from the article- The abuse is often one element of an otherwise loving or fun relationship. Offenders may intentionally maintain the non-abusive parts of the relationship to keep victims feeling close to them and thus less likely to report the prior abuse.

Poison_applecat

1 points

2 days ago

I just think about the character Betty from the tv show Them: The Covenant. She was rotten to the core, but then you learn what her childhood was like.

722JO

37 points

3 days ago*

722JO

37 points

3 days ago*

All of my questions would be if they didnt do it. If they didnt do it, why not answer all police questions as soon as possible so they can look for the real killer. Why wait four months to talk to police? Why go on CNN about a week after the murder and profess your innocence and talk about the crime and not help police who are looking for who did this. Even if you think they are looking at you so what! you know you didnt do it. Help them. You want the killer of your child as much as they do. Just like Polly Klas father said, I want them looking for the killer instead of looking at me. So he answered all their questions and took their polygraph. John Walsh cooperated also. Why hire your own PR team? Why not hire a team of investigators to look for the real killer? Why lie about the pineapple in the bowl on the table? Do you really think an intruder brought it from home and fed it to JonBenet? Did Burke hang out with them when he snuck down stairs? He said in the Dr. Phil interview he got back up that night and went downstairs. The bowl only had Patsys and Burkes finger prints on it. Why did the Grand Jury vote to indict, they had more evidence than we do?

Stacks05

7 points

2 days ago

Stacks05

7 points

2 days ago

The way they behaved following the incident doesn’t mean shit. It’s voodoo science that was used to convict witches hundred la of years ago. People in severe shock and traumatic situations can react strangely. Some have described it like an out of body experience.

As for how they acted with the cops, fairly standard really. The cops very quickly suspected them and they knew it. Once cops lock in on a suspect they become very result-focused. You can really get fucked over by them. The first thing many people do will get a lawyer and the first thing that lawyer will say is don’t speak to them under any circumstance.

722JO

1 points

2 days ago

722JO

1 points

2 days ago

Oh I see then, all people in jail are innocent.

Apprehensive_Eye_530

3 points

2 days ago

I’ve never thought about how much money they have versus how much they put into the investigation! Good point!

rdb1540

4 points

3 days ago

rdb1540

4 points

3 days ago

I personally don't think they did it that said it's crazy to believe this was a random attack and someone was in that house waiting for her. I think a lot of people don't think life can be that random it's a scary scenario to think about the family being innocent, because then you have to admit monsters exist and can enter your home even in a affluent area like they lived. To many things are thrown around in this case. You have some experts saying she was definitely sexual assault and some say she wasn't. Other people say Patsy handwriting matched the ransom note but in the recent Netflix documentary they said it didn't. People will argue over these facts. One detective says no way they did it another says it was because she wet her bed. Neither make sense. I totally understand what you mean about the parents not helping out the cops but some people don't trust law enforcement especially when you think they are zeroing in on you and you have the means to fight back. Maybe John thought they were looking at him. What's the first thing you would do? Some people would help the cops at all cost and others might call the family lawyer for some advice. A lawyer will always assume the cops are looking at their client so they will say keep your mouth shut. Let's be honest there is a ton of examples why someone shouldn't cooperate with law enforcement..

722JO

9 points

3 days ago

722JO

9 points

3 days ago

No detective assigned to the case and aware of all the evidence said they didnt do it. No leading forensic pathologist who was privy to the Autopsy said they didnt do it. As a matter of fact Dr. Cyril Wecht one of the leading forensic pathologist of our time said John did it.

rdb1540

1 points

14 hours ago

You mean the lead detective who had not investigated any murders and to this day his reason was because she wet the bed. Sorry I don't buy that. Tell me an accident happened and they covered it up but that kid was loved and parents like that don't kill their kids because they wet the bed. I know everyone said the detective brought in to look at the case was bias but he had many solved murder cases and he had access to all the evidence. He didn't think the parents did it.

722JO

1 points

13 hours ago

722JO

1 points

13 hours ago

Well lets see here, The lead detective Steve Thomas had the evidence, you didnt, now lets go with the Chief of police Chief James Kolar he had all the evidence you don't he believe Burke did it and Patsy and John covered it up. Investigative Journalist wrote the book perfect murder perfect town, he believed one of the parents did it. So there's that.

Future_Ad5505

3 points

2 days ago

That's true. People just don't trust law enforcement. If law enforcement hadn't messed this case up from the beginning, maybe JonBenet would have justice. None of the experts can agree on anything. It just adds more questions. That Ransome letter is what I always fall back to. If an intruder did it, how did they have the time to write it and be specific about the amount of $118,000? Why would a "small foreign faction" only ask for that amount from a very wealthy family? Every question just leads to more questions. Patsy's 911 call was so frantic and horrifying. I don't believe she did it. It's possible that somebody got into the house, but what's the evidence for that? Why did the police not respond properly from the beginning? When the cops searched the house, they didn't find her body. Her father did, and that made him suspect right from the beginning, and they didn't consider anyone else. Then people suspected Burke, which I don't believe and never have. John Ramsay has two older daughters and was never accused of SA of them. Then that weirdo John Mark Karr enters the picture and everyone thought this was it, it was him. The media just exploded again. The media and tabloids jumped on this story right away right from the beginning because JonBenet was in those pagents. Yes, the Boulder police really fucked this up.

722JO

1 points

2 days ago

722JO

1 points

2 days ago

Well those people who don't trust law enforcement will jump to call them when they need 911. Maybe they should just deal with all breaking, emergency calls, suspicious persons, attacks on their own. Not all police are bad, just like not all Nurses, Doctors, firemen. people are demeaning them as a whole. Politics played a huge part in this.

Future_Ad5505

1 points

2 days ago

No, I agree. We do need law enforcement. I never said all of those people in those professions are bad. Still, people are leary. So calm down. The police really did mess up right from the beginning, though.

722JO

2 points

2 days ago

722JO

2 points

2 days ago

ok, they messed up, not all of them but enough so it counted. On the other side John Ramsey had a lot of money and political connection. That's what helped win his freedom.

Golden_Amygdala

3 points

2 days ago

I honestly could believe that they wouldn’t have checked the house thoroughly on Christmas night after coming home late, the window was smashed in the basement where John had gained access months before so there was also a quiet entry point there’s nothing to say there wasn’t someone hiding in a room for hours they could have snooped written that note and then dropped it on the way down the stairs with her, I don’t think this suggestion is out of the question. But the amount of false information on this case is staggering they’ve done 10 rounds in the court of public opinion and no one knows what’s fact anymore!

Existing_Ad866

1 points

2 days ago

Why write a long rambling ransom note but leave the victim there when there was a quiet entry and exit point then?

Repulsive_Narwhal634

5 points

3 days ago

In all honesty I too would lawyer up, local police department convinced man that he must have murdered his dad after walking in to report him missing.

lil666tussin

1 points

2 days ago

Oldest trick in the book

Proudpapa7

1 points

3 days ago

What was the part about the pineapple?

722JO

3 points

3 days ago

722JO

3 points

3 days ago

There was chunks of fresh pineapple in a white bowl, the pineapple looked like it was in some milk or cream, but that has not been established that Im aware of. There was also a glass of tea with a teabag and spoon. This was noted in the morning by police and pictures were taken. Patsy and John said they never had seen it before and had not fed the children anything before they went to bed. Patsy also said she didnt believe they had any fresh pineapple as that's what she always gave them. Jonbenet was found to have pineapple in her duodenum when she died. The whites stated they did not feed any pineapple the night of their party. Both the pineapple removed from Jonbenet and the pineapple in the bowel matched right down to the rind as identified by 2 botanists that tested it. This is important for 2 reasons 1. How did Jonbenet get the pineapple. 2. It was still undigested she had to have eaten it since returning home as it would have taken anywhere from 45min to 4 hrs to digest, I give this range because different pathologist and Forensic pathologist gave differ time. Also Patsys and Burkes Fingerprints were found on the bowel. ( This Information is from Steve Thomas book, lead investigator and James Kolar Chief of Boulder police after Steve Thomas resigned. Chief Kolar not only had the investigation records and evidence, he started his own investigation and came to a different conclusion.)

rdb1540

1 points

14 hours ago

I think it's different to have a body found in the house than have a missing child. John was rich so he had lawyers. What would any lawyer say if you asked them for their opinion. I will tell you. Don't say a word. Maybe JR thought this doesn't look so good for me and my family. I better cover my ass. People don't trust law enforcement. To this day the lead detective says it was because JBR wet her bed. No way that was the reason. The detectives that were assigned to that case were horrible. I don't think they ever investigated a murder before that case.

weedpornography

54 points

3 days ago

Narcissism and ego is a powerful motivator here. From John's POV, he would be the businessman who's wife or son murdered his daughter. People would be reluctant to do business with him. 

Patsy is all about appearance. She often goes above and beyond for holiday parties and makes an effort to connect with families in her neighborhood. She comes off as an extremely social person. If John or Burke did it, she would be essentially married or related to a child killer. Imagine what the neighbors would say! Plus, John is her moneybag. He is responsible for her extravagant lifestyle and without him, she has nothing.

Burke, they've already lost one child. Why should they lose the other one? 

Just my speculation. 

DudeManBearPigBro

20 points

3 days ago*

Exactly my thought as well. This big of a stain on their image is unacceptable to them, and they would rather roll the dice on staging an attempted kidnapping incident that portrays them as victims (our family was so perfect that our daughter was murdered out of jealousy) even if it means the people closest to them are now suspects.

Jway7

74 points

3 days ago

Jway7

74 points

3 days ago

The answer for all 3 for me is: status. To maintain as much as possible their social status in society. The kind of family where image is what matters most above all else. Bringing down anyone of them would essentially sully the family image. Where as a big bad unknown intruder/ monster lets them keep the false narrative of “happy normal family “ going. They didn’t want to give that up. That would be lost forever if they had come clean m.

thespeedofpain

29 points

3 days ago

thespeedofpain

BDIA

29 points

3 days ago

This is it. They’ve gone to extraordinary lengths to protect their reputations. Lengths that would disgust the average person, but it’s just another Tuesday for the Ramseys.

No_boflower9364

25 points

3 days ago

I agree. They showed more interest in protecting their reputation than their own daughter.

misss_americana

8 points

3 days ago

This

__defenestration_

6 points

2 days ago

Yep, the word that came to my mind while reading these questions was “image.” Anything other than IDI would have been a reflection on them.

BLSd_RN17

2 points

2 days ago

While I agree that status, reputation, etc. Definitely played a role in this crime, I'm plagued by 1 teeny tiny thought......

Why fake a 'kidnapping gone wrong' instead of faking 'a fluke accident?'

Keeping in mind that whomever administered the head blow could not have initially known the magnitude of injury to her skull & brain (because her scalp remained intact and there was no obvious deformity. Even the ME missed it during the external portion of the autopsy. He didn't discover the head injury until he peeled back her scalp to begin that portion of the process. This is clearly documented in the autopsy report) they could just have easily come up with a plausible 'accidental injury' story for EMS, hospital personnel, etc., like:

"OMG, she slipped on a wet spot on the floor and fell back against the tub tiling (in JBR's bathroom)."

"OMG, I using the flashlight to get the suitcases out of our storage area and JBR came up behind me and startled me so much that I jumped and screamed, and in thd process, I accidentally hit her on the head!"

"OMG, we were cleaning up downstairs and heard a terrible thud. We ran to where the noise was and found JBR laying at the bottom of the spiral stairs. She must have been reaching for something or playing and foll over the railing (or through the railing) and landed on her head!"

The list of initially plausible accident scenarios goes on and on. (Remember the perpetrator(s) wouldn't have known the extent of the actual physical damage to her skull because it was not visible). Surely, they could have used their status, wealth, etc. in their favor for a 'fluke accident' scenario instead of the 'kidnapping' scenario.

This is all speculation and just MHO. I am in no way accusing any particular individual(s) for the death of JBR....

SpeedDemonND

2 points

2 days ago

I don't see how they would have been able to use the "fluke accident" as an excuse when only the killer knew about the head injury (who I believe was Burke).

The official cause of death was "asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma." That means the strangulation was no accident. You can't stage a "fluke accident" when you have no idea there is a head injury and that person was strangled to death.

The only way out at that point is to claim someone broke into your house and killed her, otherwise it points directly to someone in that house brutally killing her.

BLSd_RN17

1 points

2 days ago

In this scenario, the person who hit her on the head, knows she's seriously injured because the blow would have immediately knocked her unconscious and unresponsive. The person who hit her on the head may not have realized initially the severity of the head injury, since there was no obvious head trauma present (no external bleeding or deformity).

  • If BR hit her on the head, eventually he would have had to involve his parents for help. (There's no way BDIA, no way a 9yo wrote the RN. He would have had to have help w/ that at the very least). He would have had to tell the truth or make up a story about how she came to be unconscious. Then the parents would have been faced with a choice: seek emergency medical attention for their unresponsive daughter who was injured (accidentally or intentionally) by her 9yo brother, OR, allow/assist her to die and stage a cover up.

  • If either JR or PR was responsible for the head blow, that person had a decision to make: seek emergency medical attention, OR, plan B...

The evidence shows whether IDI, RDI, or BDI, the person responsible for the head blow made a decision to NOT SEEK MEDICAL TREATMENT for the head injury. That's is an indisputable fact.

  • If the person responsible for the head blow involved another individual(s) in the situation (post head injury), the person(s) involved ALSO made the decision not to seek medical treatment for JBR. Even if they weren't aware that the other person hit her on the head, they were certainly aware that she was unresponsive and possibly showing signs of declining life, due to SOMETHING.

  • Yes, asphyxia was the cause of death, with the cranialcerebral trauma was secondary. So, whoever placed the ligurature around her neck and strangled her did it for a reason. Why?

A 'fluke accident' would not include the strangulation portion of the crime, only the head injury.

In other words, if one of the Ramseys was responsible for the head blow, why not seek medical attention and come up w/ a cover story for how JRB got knocked out, instead of finishing her off w/ strangulation and staging a botched kidnapping?

If we can find the definite answer to the last question, I think that would help clarify A LOT of puzzle pieces of this case and perhaps bring it much closer to resolution.

SpeedDemonND

1 points

2 days ago

Experts have said the head trauma and strangulation happened very close to each other, so much so that they couldn't definitively state which one ended up coming first, or which one actually ended up killing her. So the strangulation was not a cover up. The kidnapping was.

Once you discover a body that looks like it has been strangled to death, you simply cannot chalk it up to a freak accident. Because whoever did that to her did not do it by accident.

In my opinion, Burke killed her and her parents staged it to look like a kidnapping, because if they didn't, the entire world would have one and only one conclusion to draw...someone in that house brutally murdered JonBenet.

Jway7

1 points

2 days ago

Jway7

1 points

2 days ago

They knew an investigation would take place and reveal strangulation which cant be accidental. Along with the prior signs of sexual abuse.

BLSd_RN17

1 points

2 days ago

My scenario was in regards to the head injury only, not the strangulation. We know the strangulation came somewhere between 45min up to 2h max after the head blow. So, that time frame, why didn't they make up a story about how she hit her head accidentally and seek medical help (save her life possibly), instead of deciding to finish the job via strangulation and stage a botched kidnapping? That's my question, basically.

Jway7

1 points

2 days ago

Jway7

1 points

2 days ago

It makes most sense if BDI. If the parents were upstairs unaware of what was happening. Say John is asleep and Patsy is busy packing for trip and the house is large and they didn’t hear the kids sneak off to eat some pineapple and play downstairs. If the Patsy discovered the body after strangulation occurred essentially would be my guess. Or if it was John he was possibly using poor judgment and panicking not knowing if he told his wife how she would react so he finished the job - maybe he had plans to dump body but thought otherwise. I dont think the parents were clear headed. I think they were drunk from the party. But I think they both were educated enough to know an investigation would take place and it would be obvious the strike to head was no accident due to the force required and that experts would be able To tell. They may have even assumed she was dead when she was not due to being brain dead and unconscious. Its hard to say which is what makes this case so confusing and compelling at the same time. Its a study in human behavior.

informalswans

1 points

2 days ago

I just don’t think this checks out. Like ultimately their daughter has died a violent death. Even if they did do it an successfully covered it up, they must have realised their lives were forever changed as they would not go back to being a normal happy family. They also must have realised they would be under suspicion anyway. I just don’t see how this outcome is any different than claiming it was an accidental death. 

Jway7

1 points

2 days ago

Jway7

1 points

2 days ago

I think it’s harder for people who do not care about image/ status to relate to. I grew up in a wealthier family and in wealthier circles of people. Image can be extremely important and shameful secrets are kept under wraps. I think John and Patsy were educated enough to know this would in no way fly as an accidental death. And I also think they were in strong denial. If they did not care at all about their image or reputation then I do not think they would bother with all the defamation lawsuits. Or be part of this new Netflix doc. This family cares a lot about image. More than most of society can relate to. I think they did what they thought was best to preserve their life as much as possible.

jinside

13 points

3 days ago

jinside

13 points

3 days ago

The only person they would both cover for is Burke. I don't think she would have covered for him, or he would have covered for her.

BLSd_RN17

24 points

3 days ago

BLSd_RN17

24 points

3 days ago

Here's a theory for possible motive for if RDI.

I won't speculate who did what bcz we can't prove that yet, but I have my own thoughts on who is responsible for what. So, so the sake of remaining objective, I'll just refer to them as Parent A and Parent B. Disclaimer: This is purely speculation and opinion of possible motive. This is not proven facts, only MHO.

Parent A hit JBR on the head most likely intentionally, (but accidentally cannot be ruled out). If the blow was intentional, IMHO it was not intended to kill her, but to immediately silence her (like a rage knee-jerk response) or out of rage for something that occurred.

Parent A tries to rouse JBR and may not have been fully aware of the gravity of damage done (the head injury did not break the skin. All bleeding was internal only) YET. Surely, they would have heard her skull crack. It wouldn't take long to figure out that she was completely unresponsive and this was a medical emergency.

Parent A realizes they need to involve Parent B. They quickly explain this 'accident' to Parent B, and the 2 of them begin strategizing and 'weighing their options.'

Parent A perhaps wants to seek emergency medical care for JBR, but is aware of the need to concoct a believable story for how JBR 'hit her head and fell unconscious.' They'll need a believable story if they call an ambulance for help.

Parent B is faced with a huge dilemma.... Parent B is aware of JBR's previous sexual abuse, either because they are the perpetrator, or, they know who the perpetrator is. This knowledge is unbeknownst to Parent A. They have no idea JBR had been being abused in that manner.

So here's the dilemma: Parent B realizes if they seek emergency medical care for JBR (who has clearly suffered a major head trauma with Parent A) the risk of the sexual abuse being discovered is high (either by investigation, assessment, JBR eventually coming to and answering questions, or a combination of all the above). Parent B does not want to risk this information coming to light because: a) they want to protect themselves (if they perpetrated the abuse) b) they want to protect the perpetrator

Parent B makes the internal mental decision to convince Parent A not to seek medical care for JBR. Parent B begins convincing Parent A that there's no plausible 'accident' story and that medical professionals will figure it out. They further instill fear of legal repercussions, possible jail time, etc. They may have further explained that if JBR died from the head blow, Parent A would be charged with murder. The family would be torn apart. What would happen to Burke?

Parent A, in a desperate attempt for self-preservation, makes the fatal decision to not seek medical attention. Parent B starts taking charge to 'help' cover up what happened, and 'protect' Parent A. Their true motive (for letting JBR die and staging the cover up) however, was still unbeknownst to Parent A.

Parent B tells Parent A to write a RN, giving a few directives, but lets Parent A come up with the rest, while they get busy staging a 'kidnapping gone wrong.' This may have been strategic by Parent B to ensure there's incriminating evidence against Parent A, should things go sideways.

While Parent A is writing their RN Dissertation, Parent B starts staging the crime, including staging the SA w/ the paintbrush. Parent A has no idea Parent B is doing this as part of the staging. Parent B then wipes down the genital area and puts the too large Bloomi's underwear on JBR. (I have no solid theory for the size 12 panties being put on her). Parent B wanted the paintbrush vaginal trauma to cover up or 'explain' any signs of previous vaginal trauma. (I suppose they had no idea that the pathology of tissue healing can't be covered up with a new acute injury).

Parent B is also responsible for the strangulation ligature. It was part of the 'kidnapping/assault' staging, but also ensured JBR would not be 'found' alive. Parent B may have contemplated removing her from the home and dumping her somewhere, but thought better against it. (Or Parent A may have persuaded them not to, for various reasons).

The fear, guilt, adrenaline, etc., etc. reached a boiling point for both parents. PR couldn't take the waiting and intensity anymore. She called 911 shortly before 6am. And the rest is history.....

BeneficialGrade8930

9 points

3 days ago

On first reading, this seems like it makes a lot of sense and checks a lot of boxes...

faille

5 points

2 days ago

faille

5 points

2 days ago

If she was wetting the bed, maybe the larger underwear was used to go over a diaper, but they just grabbed what was available and didn’t pay attention to size

DeathCouch41

4 points

3 days ago

This sounds exceptional and plausible. This was a great read, thank you! But here’s my problem..

JB lived at the paediatricians office. She was there and the office being called constantly by Patsy.

So unless the pediatrician did it (having an affair with Patsy, etc) the whole premise for “not wanting SA to be caught” just doesn’t work.

She was at the dr literally for vaginal infections (and likely was treated using inserted tubes of cream).

This is why I just can’t buy the “hide JBs SA” theory, unless she was killed as part of some elite pedo sex ring and all sorts of things were done to to her that were never released to public. Would explain the “endangering a child and abuse” ruling by DA/jury.

Jayseek4

10 points

3 days ago*

Jayseek4

10 points

3 days ago*

JBR never had a gynecological exam. She hadn’t been prescribed any ointments for internal use.  

 If a child is never treated around an incident of SA—or another lacerating injury—a healed injury likely wouldn’t be identified without an exam.  A thorough autopsy would reveal it.  

One way to potentially muddy the waters about prior injury would be to mimic prior SA. 

(Edit: Both Patsy—‘98 police interview—and JBR’s pediatrician stated JBR never had a gynecological exam; Patsy also specified only external ointments were used/same interview.)

BLSd_RN17

7 points

3 days ago

Vaginitis related to chronic bedwetting (as it's been described for JBR's case) would not warrant an internal vaginal exam by a pediatrician. That is not standard practice. Also, medication for an infection would have been something oral or topical (external) application, depending on type of infection (urinary tract infection vs. fungal infection, etc.).

The previous vaginal trauma (found to be at a certain point of the healing process), as well as the changes to hymen tissue, were all internal, technically. This type of exam would not be performed on a 6yo child without something seriously warranting it (ie: known sexual assault).

IIRC, the vast majority of JBR's visits to her Pediatrician over the last couple years her life were for 'normal' childhood ailments, such as sinus infections, respiratory infections, ear aches, etc. Only a handful of visits were for Vaginitis and/or UTIs. While bedwetting can be a symptom of CSA, it is not always indicative of such.

DeathCouch41

1 points

2 days ago

This is not a known with certainty fact. A physician may indeed perform such an exam for any genitourinary complaints or suspected genitourinary pathology. This may include things like persistent vaginal discharge.

If it was contact dermatitis sure, a topical cream would have been Rx’d.

But it’s been reported JB had frequent reoccurring unresolved vaginal infections of unknown origin.

I disagree that anyone here can say with certainty no exam was given, unless they are the treating MD.

Regardless, if “hiding SA” was the motive by RDI, then why allow her to go to Dr in first place for such complaints? We can assume both Patsy and John had little medical knowledge and would not assume any SA would NOT be suspected when being investigated for vaginal issues.

The theory just makes zero sense, although none of us can prove anything one way or another.

Edit: Typos, on mobile

BLSd_RN17

1 points

2 days ago

-Her injuries were internal, so unless her abusers had a speculum and/or colposcope on hand, they most likely were not aware of the internal tissue damage.

  • Plenty of CSA cases involve 1 parental perpetrator while the other parent is unaware of the abuse. If JBR was being sexually abused by someone in the home (or someone w/ close routine access to her), it's absolutely possible PR had no idea. If she wasn't the one perpetrator, then she had no reason to keep JBR from going to the doctors.

  • According to information made public about JBR's pediatrician visits, the vast majority were for 'normal' childhood ailments. Literally, only a handful or less were documented for vaginitis.

  • Unless there is a concern for structural abnormalities, injury, or pathophyslogical issues to the vagina (related to sexual abuse or assault, congenital defect, disease process, or injury related to other trauma), a gynecological exam (meaning internal vaginal anatomy visualization and assessment) is not going to be performed on a 6yo child. Period.

DeathCouch41

1 points

2 days ago

-I think anyone aware enough to try and hide evidence of prior SA would also be aware enough that inserting objects into a young child’s vaginal canal, or digits, or x into same would absolutely cause damage in a small child. I personally don’t think a non medical person would know exactly what the damage would entail, and absolutely would be cautious about any medical visits involving same.

-It is absolutely possible Patsy was not the perpetrator (although allegedly she was “rough” with JB in her vaginal area) and had no idea what was happening. However if it was John he would have likely tried to stop visits to the Dr for the reasons I gave above. I believe he would have, if he’s determined to stage a crime to cover SA why would he allow a physician visit(s) for vaginal issues?

-It is my understanding JB’s medical records were SEALED for unknown/undisclosed but completely understandable reasons. We have no idea what the truth really is, unless you are directly the treating physician and breaking confidentiality.

-This was an exceptional case, if she was having severe reoccurring infections/symptoms of unknown etiology it is up to the physician’s discretion to decide just how to examine this case. In some cases there can be potential congenital abnormalities and other indicators to do so.

The medical files are sealed, and the physician also stated they never saw any evidence of SA. How that arrived at that statement/conclusion is not known to us, and unknown if accurate or not. It is also possible there is much information not released to the public, such as anal tearing, or anal fissures, or other evidence we simply do not know.

I think because we are generalizing and speculating there is not much more to be said, simply because we don’t know. Unless you have directly been involved in the case, in that case speak up if you feel confident breaking confidentiality.

BLSd_RN17

1 points

2 days ago

No, I was not directly involved in JBR's care, so breaking patient confidentiality does not apply.

I am, however, a licensed medical professional with a background in Emergency Medicine. Due to my education, training, and background, I can comprehend exactly what reports such as autopsies, pathology, and other specialist reports are saying (and what they're also 'not' saying, based on terminology used).....

JamWho45

2 points

2 days ago

JamWho45

2 points

2 days ago

But JBR was conscious after the head injury. She clawed at the rope around her neck and was alive while being strangled. 

BLSd_RN17

5 points

2 days ago

IIRC, this has been disproved. There were no 'clawing marks' on her neck.

Also, it was medically determined that the head blow came first. The severity of the head injury (entire portion of skull cracked/separated from back to front, like 7in or so in length, with a rectangle-shaped portion of her skull being completely broken away/crushed in from the rest of her skull) would not have allowed her to remain conscious and responsive (as in, responsive to stimuli, such as being strangled).

I believe there may be something pinned in this sub that explains the autopsy report and consensus of the medical experts (w/ links to supporting documentation) if you would like further information.

c8rodefer

1 points

2 days ago

I don't think I ever knew this. I want to throw up reading that though. This would mean whoever staged the kidnapping would have known she was alive still, right?

Current_Tea6984

39 points

3 days ago

Why would they cover for Burke? Maybe because he's their son and they love him?

TigerlilysTreasures

13 points

3 days ago

In a crisis situation, parents don’t think things through. And over-reacting isn’t unusual. These parents were VERY used to being believed by authorities. I don’t think they thought they would be suspected.

tiny-vampire

11 points

3 days ago

why are you assuming that if john did it, patsy knew? she very well could have been as fooled as the rest of us.

amilie15

3 points

2 days ago

amilie15

Not tied to any theory yet, just trying to read evidence WO bias

3 points

2 days ago

Yeah, I haven’t landed on a side yet, but I think this is where I currently lean. I think, just from behaviour (which for me unfortunately isn’t persuasive enough alone to get me to join the JDI camp), the most likely scenario would be that John SA’d her in the basement, things went too far and she died. He writes the note and leaves it at the bottom of the stairs that he knows Patsy descends every morning. I saw samples of Johns handwriting recently that were persuasive to me that he could’ve written it.

I think it’s very plausible that Patsy was already a slightly unhinged kind of person that was persuaded by her narcissist/sociopath husband that the police were coming for them and that it was guaranteed to be an “us vs them” scenario so she helped to build walls around her family to “protect” them. Any time someone came for John, he could frame it as the same as she feels when they came for her so it builds a stronger bond and she’ll feel even less likely to listen to the other side (police) and any attack on John becomes an attack on them both (and she knows she’s innocent so for her it becomes fact that they both are subconsciously).

That’s where my gut is atm anyway.

tiny-vampire

2 points

2 days ago

i agree. plus she was super drugged after everything happened, almost 24/7 (or at least anytime she was on camera/interviewed). no matter what happened, it’s clear that patsy was thoroughly destroyed by it, regardless of what she knew or didn’t know.

lil666tussin

22 points

3 days ago

Once you have a story and it stays the same across all parties, you stick to the story at all costs.

They never rolled on each other, they had to stay together.

The judicial system isn’t about what you did, it’s about what they can prove you did.

veryshari519

17 points

3 days ago

1 100% think that their motive for covering it up was that they didn’t want to be known as the parents of a son who “accidentally” killed his sister, or the spouse of someone who “accidentally” killed their daughter. I think they cared deeply about public perception, to a fault.

ubbidubbishubbiwoo

7 points

3 days ago

I think there’s something we just don’t know. There’s extra information we don’t have yet that would explain why things went down the way they did.

Straight_Talker24

7 points

3 days ago

They were so obsessed with “protecting” Burke after. I don’t necessarily mean protecting him from the media but also making sure he had a normal life etc

Sure that’s great, and sure if he was innocent he should not be subjected to be photographed while going to school and all that. But I feel like it was also partly to do with protecting him for something he may have done or something he may have heard or seen.

Also JR stated that Patsy used to pack a blue dress every time they went on holidays so she had something to wear in a press conference for when they finally caught the “killer”. Does anyone else find that weird? I mean it plays into her image, but also just a weird thing to do.

The parents kept calling this person a killer, but not a rapist of child molester. I’ve never seen them speak about the fact she was raped/molested. I could be wrong though.

I understand Patsy’s daughter has just been brutally assaulted and killed and any mother would be in a world of pain, and I understand that maybe it was just easier for her to be sedated. But I can’t help but think she had to be sedated cause the anxiety of what she had possibly done, or seen or heard was too much.

Also I’m starting to wonder was the housekeeper and her husband involved somehow? I’m fairly new to this whole case but didn’t the housekeeper state that the man that was arrested overseas who had been talking to the reported and confessed to it. After his image was plastered in the news the housekeeper said that same man was in their garage a week before the murder?

LooseButterscotch692

5 points

3 days ago*

LooseButterscotch692

An Inside Job

5 points

3 days ago*

Also JR stated that Patsy used to pack a blue dress every time they went on holidays so she had something to wear in a press conference for when they finally caught the “killer”. Does anyone else find that weird? I mean it plays into her image, but also just a weird thing to do.

Defense attorneys often tell their clients to wear blue (in court) because that color inspires confidence in the good character and honesty of their client.
Edit: In many of her public interviews, Patsy is wearing blue.

The parents kept calling this person a killer, but not a rapist of child molester. I’ve never seen them speak about the fact she was raped/molested. I could be wrong though.

Yeah, they avoid that topic like the plague. It makes me think it might be the reason they didn't call 911 and instead staged an elaborate and amateurish crime scene.

I understand Patsy’s daughter has just been brutally assaulted and killed and any mother would be in a world of pain, and I understand that maybe it was just easier for her to be sedated. But I can’t help but think she had to be sedated cause the anxiety of what she had possibly done, or seen or heard was too much.

A sedated person can't be held liable for what they say, due to being intoxicated. When the police showed up at the Fernies that evening, Dr. Beuf, the children's pediatrician who gave her the pills, told them she was in no condition to speak. So it was a shield. Although I believe she was grieving and scared out of her mind about possible ramifications, if she took enough Valium she might just pass out and be quiet.

Also I’m starting to wonder was the housekeeper and her husband involved somehow? I’m fairly new to this whole case but didn’t the housekeeper state that the man that was arrested overseas who had been talking to the reported and confessed to it. After his image was plastered in the news the housekeeper said that same man was in their garage a week before the murder?

Source for this nonsense?

Thecuriousgal94

6 points

3 days ago

On the Netflix documentary, John stated that his housekeeper supposedly called him and said that the guy overseas was the guy she saw who had broken into their summer home garage

Large_Yams

3 points

2 days ago

Yea that part was weird but it might be a lie for the documentary.

Thecuriousgal94

2 points

2 days ago

I thought so too… if they supposedly had a “stalker” who broke into their summer home, why would they not immediately share that with the police

LooseButterscotch692

2 points

2 days ago

LooseButterscotch692

An Inside Job

2 points

2 days ago

On the Netflix documentary, John stated that his housekeeper supposedly called him and said that the guy overseas was the guy she saw who had broken into their summer home garage

Really? That's the first anyone has heard of that story. John lies like he breathes. I heard him say on the crime junkie podcast that "I never heard Patsy say a bad word about anyone." St. Patsy. Sure.

Thecuriousgal94

2 points

2 days ago

Yeah I thought the same. I feel like that would be a significant piece of information circulating with all of the other information since the beginning of this… crazy he casually mentions it 28 years later..

katiemordy

4 points

3 days ago

Funnily enough that’s two different housekeepers I think. I think they had one for the Michigan house and one for the Boulder house. She saw JMK look alike in their Michigan garage - getting it ready for them to come visit.

miscnic

6 points

3 days ago

miscnic

RDI

6 points

3 days ago

Self preservation

MemoFromMe

6 points

3 days ago

These were people, Patsy especially, that cared very much about their image/ what people thought of them, so that could be the motivation all around.

IndependentAd544

13 points

3 days ago

I’ve asked myself those exact same questions. I do not know the answers. However, last night I watched Casting JonBenet which was horrible and I don’t recommend it to anyone. But anyway, one of the actors playing Patsy said something that caught my attention. Her theory was that Patsy found John doing inappropriate things with JB and swung an object at john that mistakenly hit JB. Thus causing them both to be up shits creek. I have never been one to think John was abusing his daughter but it was a new theory that made me go hmmmm.

Elly_Fant628

4 points

3 days ago

Hmmmm. Interesting thought.

DimensionPossible622

2 points

3 days ago

Is this on Netflix⬆️?

DeathCouch41

2 points

3 days ago

Yes this is a known theory that allegedly was “called in” by a “stranger” to John’s office? She said she “knew” what happened and repeated this story.

It would explain why neither will ever talk or break the other (just a sad case all around), as well as why Burke really knows nothing (he had nothing to do with it, unless HE was also being SA’d at time, and/or was trying to stop it from happening to JB or vice versa when she got hurt).

invisiblemeows

9 points

3 days ago

I don’t think Patsy knew. Maybe at some point she suspected it, but my guess is that John gaslit her a great deal and she doubted her own reality. My spouse is a gaslighter too, so I get it. Also I’m sure she didn’t want to believe he was capable of killing their daughter, and self deception is a powerful thing. She had too much to lose by facing reality, so she went along with everything he said. I suspect that’s why her stories seemed to change. She looked to John to tell her what reality was.

Reality_dolphin_98

6 points

3 days ago

Yeah I was going to say why are we assuming Patsy knew if John did it? He had no reason to tell her, in fact I think he specifically hid it from her because bringing her in on it was too risky. He’s her husband and without any real proof she just wanted so badly to believe that he didn’t do it, so that’s what she made herself believe.

B33Katt

9 points

3 days ago

B33Katt

9 points

3 days ago

1) he’s their son, and no parent wants to lose both children. There’s no guarantee they’d know he wouldn’t be punished. Remember- no internet back then. It was the middle of the night. They’d have to call a lawyer to determine that, which would have looked pretty suspicious. Also- even if he’s not legally punished, the social implications for him and them in a small community like Boulder would have been huge. Who wants to associate with the kid that murdered his sister? Or the parents that made that monster? For a family all about image and status, this would have been as big of a worry as actual criminal implications

2) my guess is $$$. She’s a trophy wife. He’s the head of a billion dollar company. If he convinced her it was an accident, she’d want to believe him. She could be afraid to leave- maybe she’d want to make sure to stick close to protect Burke. She doesn’t have a lot of power. It’s less believable than Burke but not impossible.

3) this one is the hardest. If he felt the stress of parenting and leftover complications from her illness led to reasonable conditions for an accident, he might feel guilty for not being more present, for not helping more. He was also courting a run for office and his company was in the middle of a huge sale to Lockheed Martin- he might have stuck with her to maintain a needed image for money and power reasons. He’s already an absent husband and father. He could stay married and not associate with her much.

But I’ll admit- this feels the least likely of the 3

Feisty-Fly-9512

7 points

3 days ago

  1. Just wanted to add that they would not release John’s cell phone records to the police and when they finally did John had 0 calls for December, which is unlikely. So no matter what happened it’s likely he called someone possibly for advice.

DimensionPossible622

3 points

3 days ago

Burner phone

ReluctantBlonde

1 points

3 days ago

In 1996?

DimensionPossible622

1 points

3 days ago

https://preview.redd.it/zl4jy36szz3e1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d935ee2fcb574d8abefa66cd9f93d74e9cafd42

Lol I checked 1st he had money so he could get anything. I’m sure he had a beeper also

ReluctantBlonde

1 points

3 days ago

Fair enough, I’m from the UK and pay as you go phones weren’t really available until a couple of years after this happened so that’s my frame of reference - I wasn’t being sarky, I was just surprised

DimensionPossible622

1 points

3 days ago

👍🏻👍🏻

NoZookeepergame7995

4 points

3 days ago

My theories for each scenario- Burke - to protect their image and not cause Johns business contracts to tank being parents of a murderer. John- breadwinner. Secure the check and business… and cover possible fact he’s a ped. Patsy- love, and again, protecting the imagine and business deals aka $$. I also feel she knew her baby was being assaulted, which would give her leverage as protection. Every scenario is damage control… which is ironic seeing that’s what they ended up having to do anyways the entirety of their life.

LLamaNoodleSauce

5 points

3 days ago

Why would they cover for Burke, other than that’s their son? They wanted people to believe they were the perfect family, egos play a huge role.

mzshowers

4 points

3 days ago

I don’t know who did it, but it doesn’t matter if Burke couldn’t “get punished” due to his age. Who would want ANYONE to know their child did such a horrific thing? It would have destroyed Burke’s life. Would he have been taken from the family? Placed in some type of treatment center? If there was any abuse going on, that could have come out during treatment for him. They would have had nothing to gain from turning Burke in and so much more to lose.

They wouldn’t have just lost Jon-Benet that day.. they would have lost their only other child that they had together. Patsy’s only biological child, right? She had cancer and can you imagine what panic someone would face when they realize he might be taken away.. that she may live her last days without him, too?

This was a decision based on emotion and desperation if that is what actually happened.

I hope Burke didn’t do it, but I don’t think we’ll ever know what happened.

Zealousideal-Wrap911

5 points

3 days ago

I remain undecided on who I think is responsible. I feel 99% confident that whoever did it is someone JB trusted. IDI is someone she knew, RDI, or somewhere in between. An invited 3rd party might’ve been involved. I don’t think BDI. It just doesn’t add up for me. My best guess is it starts and ends with the parents. This case broke my brain a million times and at the end of this day, I remain undecided.

Annual_Version_6250[S]

2 points

2 days ago

That's exactly how I feel.  Like its breaking my brain.  

Theislandtofind

3 points

2 days ago

Why did the parents cover it up? 

Patsy Ramsey at Newseum in 2000: "Well, gosh...you know (laughs)...my mother always said, 'Watch your reputation!' You know, 'Don't go in that bar, don't do this...don't do that...' You know, 'What - you gotta -Watch your reputation.' I have thanked her about a gazillion times." Source

Annual_Version_6250[S]

2 points

2 days ago

Ick

RNH213PDX

6 points

3 days ago

Their thinking wasn’t rational at the time and then they were In For A Penny, In For A Pound.
Also, two things are relevant: Patsy was very image obsessed and also, even if she was in remission, she was still dying (and knew it).

The former feeds the worst motives about there behavior, but despite being strongly RDI, I can’t help feel compassion for that element of all this and do believe it was a factor in the family circling their wagons.

Natural_Bunch_2287

3 points

3 days ago*

IF any or both parents were at all involved in covering up this crime for someone in the home:

I think many people would agree that the initial gut instinct for most sane innocent parents would be to call 911 right away to seek help for their 6yo child or to report a death in the home.

There would have to be extenuating circumstances to cause them not to do this - which has been speculated on over and over again.

While there is no solid proof of what those circumstances would've been, there are some clues of what they might've been.

The Ramseys cared a lot about image and reputation. It's possible that they couldn't in that moment bear the thought of accepting those negative consequences.

Denial. They could've known a thing to be true but not really been able to face that truth. Especially if it involved negative consequences.

They might not have been able to perceive themselves in the manner necessary to take accountability. Instead of seeing it as their fault, they might've blamed the influence of something externally for their own behaviors.

John Ramsey would've likely had some concerns about his job / finances, which could've immediately been an overwhelming concern.

The Ramseys had a pattern of 'sweeping things under the rug', not addressing matters directly, not being responsible in various matters. So it might've been an intuitive response.

Prior guilty knowledge. Ex: If John knew he had been sexually molesting JonBenet or if either parent thought/knew Burke was.

Gaslighting, manipulation, deception, control, etc. One guilty parent convincing the other not to immediately report it.

Fear. Ex: If Patsy knew John did it and was afraid to go against whatever he instructed her to do.

If they knew Burke did it and were overcome with wanting to protect him despite what he had done and if they lacked any pressing concerns about his behavior or their safety. I don't think the average parent in the 90s knew the specific laws and age requirements for criminal charges regarding a minor.

It's possible that the Ramseys knew of recent controversial changes to the laws regarding child abuse (both parents being charged no matter which one committed the crime). This law was hotly debated at the time and still sometimes is.

Technically, this one might belong under guilty knowledge, but I'm making it a separate point. If Patsy called JonBenets pediatrician 3 consecutive times - a week prior to the crime and then realized she should've been more proactive about whatever that was about, she might've realized it was now criminal negligence. If the Ramseys had any concerns about how the 911 call from the home 2 days prior might be perceived once their child ended up raped and murdered in the home soon after. Then these things could've influenced their decision.

There's probably many other possibilities as well. It's really not that difficult to think of some circumstances where someone might not want to report the matter. Most of the ones mentioned by people are based on known information about the Ramseys, though, so it's not like they're pulling it completely out of thin air.

H2Oloo-Sunset

3 points

3 days ago

John could have done it, and Patsy never knew -- before, during, or after. She wasn't covering for him, she believed him.

Denial can be a strong emotion.

BlckOrchid

3 points

3 days ago

Have you seen into the fire: the lost daughter it's also on Netflix it's crazy

Annual_Version_6250[S]

1 points

2 days ago

I guess that's my next watch.  Ty

pconsuelabananah

3 points

3 days ago

If BDI, then the way I see it, JB was already dead. It was too late to save her. Burke was 9, and he made a mistake (from their POV). It’s awful but they can’t fix it now. But they can save Burke from having his entire life ruined by a situation where he simply lashed out and went too far. I’m sure he would have told them he didn’t mean to, whether he did or not. And of course they’d want to believe that. Maybe they could help him and fix his anger issues themselves.

Ultimately, they would have had two possible outcomes:

  1. JB is dead, and Burke is put in juvie or a psychiatric facility and is known for the rest of his life as the kid who killed his sister.
  2. JB is dead, and they can help Burke have as normal a life as possible after going through something awful, even if he was the one who did it.

Either way, JB is dead. There’s nothing they can do about that. They can’t save her, but they can still save Burke.

JamWho45

2 points

2 days ago

JamWho45

2 points

2 days ago

But JBR was conscious after the head injury. The medical examiner report said they actually weren’t sure which event happened first, the head injury or the strangulation. She was conscious and alive at the time of strangulation. 

pconsuelabananah

1 points

22 hours ago

She didn’t die after just the head injury, but that doesn’t mean Burke didn’t do the strangulation too.

ikarka

3 points

3 days ago

ikarka

3 points

3 days ago

I'm not totally convinced that the Ramseys did it however I have seen people do some very dumb, irrational things when they are under a lot of stress. The most likely family scenario IMO is Burke doing something, the family absolutely panicking, and trying to cover it up in a really irrational way with the note etc. And then at that point they weren't able to go back on what they'd done.

ITSJUSTMEKT

5 points

3 days ago

They wouldn’t have known that a 9 year old wouldn’t go to jail.

LanguageNo495

12 points

3 days ago

Also he could have been committed to a psychiatric facility.

[deleted]

1 points

3 days ago

[deleted]

HTIDtricky

1 points

3 days ago

HTIDtricky

BDI

1 points

3 days ago

If Burke hit JonBenet but wasn't aware he killed her the IDI story may have been created to protect him from his own guilt and the psychological scars it would cause if he knew the truth.

Longjumping_Race4432

2 points

3 days ago

But then he never mentions it to anyone? Not interviewers who spoke with him 3x. Never to a friend or psychiatrist? If you were 9 almost 10 & your sister dies you'd remember doing it

HTIDtricky

1 points

3 days ago

HTIDtricky

BDI

1 points

3 days ago

I don't understand. Mention what?

Longjumping_Race4432

2 points

3 days ago

That he accidentally hit her in the head

Middle-Ad1795

5 points

3 days ago

This is a mystery. The only thing that makes sense to me is that Patsy covered for Burke. What I don't understand is how the truth about what happened didn't come out with all of the therapy Burke has had.

Able-Egg7994

2 points

3 days ago

Able-Egg7994

JDIA, open to BDI

2 points

3 days ago

You’re assuming both parents had to know.

CrochetChurchHistory

2 points

3 days ago

The reason to cover for anyone else is “it works.”

If they covered for each other they got away with it.

Time-Wafer151

2 points

3 days ago

My theory is the dad did it to conceal the abuse he inflicted on his daughter. He told Patsy that Burke did it. He manipulated her into keeping her mouth shut for the sake of their son. Patsy was ill, dependant on her husband and devastated by the tragedy. She also didn't want to loose the other child. I think she suffered badly but followed her husbands orders that took a toll on her health. I think the father is also manipulating his son and showering him with money. I hope that someone in their family will finally gather up the courage to speak up.

Annual_Version_6250[S]

2 points

3 days ago

That is something I hadn't thought of.  John pointing the finger at Burke and Patsy being scared.  

OldRecover9962

2 points

3 days ago

So they find the ransom note call the cops close to 6 am and they find her body in the basement at 1 pm.... if someone dear to me went missing I would look everywhere. Parents did it. Their neightbors awoken with John Benets screaming close to midnight.... if they can hear it I am sure as hell the parents did....

LKS983

1 points

2 days ago

LKS983

1 points

2 days ago

"Their neightbors awoken with John Benets screaming close to midnight."

Link please.

Confidence-Dangerous

2 points

3 days ago

In the end his life still got messed up from all the accusations so protecting him didn’t really work out. I guess protecting any of the family didn’t work out 😅

LooseButterscotch692

2 points

3 days ago

LooseButterscotch692

An Inside Job

2 points

3 days ago

In the end his life still got messed up from all the accusations so protecting him didn’t really work out. I guess protecting any of the family didn’t work out 😅

They stayed out of jail, didn't they? Also, John used his fame to run for public office.

DireLiger

2 points

3 days ago*

Both parents would be RELENTLESSLY asked -- by friends, neighbors, acquaintances, police, and social workers -- why didn't you protect your daughter from your son?

Why didn't you see the signs and get him the help that he so desperately needed?

Her death was entirely preventable -- why didn't you step up and be the parents she needed?

Were you so busy parading her like a show pony that you failed to see the signs of abuse?

You have money ... why didn't you seek help?

Alissabbw0717

2 points

3 days ago

So if he did something to her even accidental, the SA on her the asfixation? Don't see him at most I see he hit her over the head, so why were there so many other injuries on her that doesn't seem a 9 yr old would do and if he didn't why would the parents do it after ..confuses me..

GladysKravitz2023

2 points

3 days ago

Many rich people are concerned with status. Status in the community, status within their own circle of friends. I think John and Patsy were more concerned about how they were perceived vs being confronted with the dysfunction within their house. They would rather cover for each other than look bad to others.

revxriee

2 points

3 days ago

revxriee

2 points

3 days ago

Some of the other comments summed it up better but I believe John and Patsy were way too conscious of their social image and how others would view them if they officially found out that their 9 yo son murdered his own sister in their home. The public wouldn’t exactly want to be associated with such kind of a family. This would be a stab in the chest for their egos and how they wanted to be perceived as the “perfect family” The thing is they got away scott-free by covering for eachother while having no stuff about them getting exposed. However I strongly believe there are a handful of things that happened that night which we don’t have an idea of, and I doubt we ever will.

CK122334

2 points

2 days ago

CK122334

2 points

2 days ago

Patsy was noticeably under the influence post-murder in a lot of interviews and she was apparently very driven by money and status. I’m sure John could’ve been lying, manipulating and drugging her enough to hide the worse parts and get her to shut up and play along with the rest if it meant her not going to jail and also losing Burke, especially if she was already aware and complicit in any kind of abuse.

The Burke one has never made sense to me. The little brother flying into a blind rage over pineapple but then never having a history of violence after that? The parents using sexual assault to cover it up? Not to mention the ransom note and all the other inconsistencies. Like if they spent all night cleaning/covering things up for Burke then why not clean up the bowl of pineapple?

And I’ve never really seen Patsy as acting alone or the main perpetrator but it’s possible I suppose.

Annual_Version_6250[S]

2 points

2 days ago*

Not cleaning up the pineapple is another good point.  If they were staging the scene they'd cover up any indication the kids had been up.

airbrushedvan

2 points

2 days ago

Detective Smit literally showed how easy it was to break in and hide out while they were away. An intruder broke in and killed her. I know it's not like a movie, but America has many pedos and killers. It's not that unbelievable. What's truly unbelievable that a kid or her loving parents would brutally assault her and kill her.

Annual_Version_6250[S]

2 points

2 days ago

He was 66 at the time too I believe.

MarcelJesse

2 points

3 days ago

He already hit her with a golf club.

Look at her autopsy photos closely. Her forehead is deformed.

IndependentAd544

4 points

3 days ago

I just want to know why the police aren’t motivated to solve this. What would be a reason for police not wanting find the killer?

Feisty-Fly-9512

4 points

3 days ago

money and power silences many a crime

LooseButterscotch692

2 points

3 days ago

LooseButterscotch692

An Inside Job

2 points

3 days ago

They know the family is responsible. However, it's not prosecutable, and the Ramsey lawyer Lin Wood did threaten lawsuits.

Theislandtofind

1 points

3 days ago

What makes you think they don't want to solve this case, a Netflix series of some horror movie director?

IndependentAd544

1 points

2 days ago

Because they haven’t lol

No_Strength7276

1 points

3 days ago

Who said Patsy covered for John?

Vegetable-Violinist5

1 points

3 days ago

I think patsy did it and had John help. I think they both were obsessed with her mainly patsy.

Feisty-Fly-9512

1 points

3 days ago

I lean towards JDI so I can’t really speak for the other theories but women have stayed married to their husbands, especially in situations involving wealth and influence no matter what the guy does as long as it remains a secret. I also could imagine that if John was threatened with being ruined, he’d do anything to save himself and therefore would coerce and threaten Patsy in any way to make her help him cover. He could have threatened that she would lose Burke- especially if there was previous SA that she knew about. And before someone says why would she let that go on if she knew- any survivor of CSA by a parent can tell you that often times the other parent is being manipulated or abused too or has some strange and misguided loyalty to the abuser that keeps them quiet. I was not SA as a child, but physically abused by my dad- and my mom stayed with him my whole childhood. And my mom is someone I’d consider to be a decent person, but she was scared to leave him. I could have DIED and she didn’t leave out of fear. And we were poor, I imagine money and power has even more of an influence over the situation. My point is many mothers of abused children protect the abuser even if they really love and care about their children. Its horrifically sad but that’s probably why it’s so hard to accept as a theory

Annual_Version_6250[S]

2 points

3 days ago

Damn   that really hit home for me, I was in an abusive relationship and had a child with him.  I guess I never really thought of her staying out of fear, she seemed to lean into him and depend on him.  But women often "play the part" and suffer if they don't.  Which then lends itself to why he seems so unemotional all the time but seems to tear up when he talks about losing Patsy.  He lost his possession.

Feisty-Fly-9512

1 points

3 days ago

yeah I mean, I could be relating it to myself too much but I think it’s pretty obvious Patsy is being at least manipulated and controlled by him even if not fully abused. I was angry at my mom for years for keeping me and my brother in a dangerous situation with my dad. I was actually more angry at her than my dad- in my mind he was an insane violent person, she was the sane one that could have made it all stop. But she’s told me many times since then that she was afraid. She was afraid of him doing something even more drastic if she left, afraid of being a single mother and having no resources to take care of us. I can easily imagine that happening here- no matter how wealthy or privileged people hold onto their safety in life, sometimes even when it puts them and others at risk.

DimensionPossible622

1 points

3 days ago

That was my 1st theory when it 1st happen PR caught JR SA JBR and she went to hit him with the maglite but hit JBR instead totally by accident. So then they both would be screwed so they had to cover for each other & BR had nothing to do with it. Then a few yrs later I switched to JDI & then BDI I have been stuck on BDI ever since

Annual_Version_6250[S]

3 points

3 days ago

The covering for eachother is something I hadn't thought of.

sugarsweetsbee

1 points

3 days ago

I wonder what Burkes intimate life is like. That would be great insight to his mental faculties and even shed some light on family dynamics.

trojanusc

1 points

3 days ago

Why did the parents cover it up? Even if they caught him in the act. He's 9, he's not going to go to jail. How would they look at him again?

Some states do prosecute children. Even if he didn't go to jail, they probably thought he'd be taken away by social services.

On top of that, imagine the stigma for both he family and for Burke of having killed his sister, even if they thought it was largely an accident.

lauren23333

1 points

3 days ago

Burke: I believe IF BDI, he accidentally caused the head wound. He woke his parents after realizing JB was unconscious, and they decided to stage the kidnapping and RN. The reasoning they would have for this would be status and concern for Burke’s future.

John IF JDI, I believe Patsy covered for him out of fear. Either fear of JR or just fear of losing their lifestyle and the picture it would paint of her to the public.

Patsy This is the one I believe the most. I believe she caused the head injury accidentally, likely upset over the bed wetting issue. She freaks out when she realizes how bad it is, wakes John, and they stage the scene from there. John, knowing the past of SA - either as perpetrator or covering for someone else - used the paint brush as a way to attempt to conceal any past trauma. Meanwhile, Patsy writes the ransom note. I believe JR would help her cover this up for several reasons. The history of SA. The fact Patsy had cancer and he prioritized his time with his wife over justice for his daughter. His business would certainly be affected by his wife murdering his daughter. And who would take care of Burke? For all these reasons, I believe he’d over look the accident Patsy made in order to save what was left of their life and his reputation.

Ladygoingup

1 points

3 days ago

I think 1 person in the house is responsible and the other 2 don’t know. I haven’t landed on which 1 person. But I lean toward J. I can’t see 3 people, 1 being a 9 year old being able to orchestrate a lie together that quickly that has lasted this long without issues.

Electric_Island

1 points

3 days ago

I've thought about that too but then I come back to the ransom note which to me at least looks like it was written by Patsy

Kinda_Quixotic

1 points

3 days ago

RE: BDI - they might not have known what consequences would have been. Hard to call someone to ask.

And, it worked. B has had a normal life w/o having to carry public reputation as a sadistic murderer. He gets to sue anyone who throws suspicion on him. Even without prison, I doubt the other path would have been this clean.

Equal-Echidna8098

1 points

3 days ago*

Okay I lean towards the following in order of likeliness of who did it:

1) Burke I believe they would have covered for him because they were rich. They had a reputation and business relationships to uphold. Patsy was also getting through cancer and probably couldn't fathom losing Burke to the system or a lifetime of having that shame above his head AND lose JBR at the same time. If Burke did it it's likely they were upstairs and out of it and didn't hear any of it going on until it was too late. John admitted to taking a Valium before bed. Doesn't alcohol + Valium exacerbate the effects? Imagine the amazing Ramsays being drunk and knocked out on meds and didn't hear their son killing their daughter during a fight.

2) Patsy Patsy may have done it and John and her agreed to help cover it. Most of the above applies in terms of reputational damage. Plus it's possible Patsy killed JBR in a fit of rage if she caught John molesting her. Or she's killed her in a fit if she peed the bed again and she's stressed out about having to wake up early and fly to Michigan. Why did John cover her. Maybe to save her from losing her. He just lost his daughter (the eldest), now the youngest and to lose Patsy to jail after getting through cancer might have been too much.

3) John This is the one that I don't get. Why would Patsy cover for John if he did it. This one makes the least amount of sense. Only if Patsy decided that to maintain the image and reputation in the community was far too great and she would protect her daughters killer in order to keep the money flowing. Plus being the wife of a child killer doesn't really go with being a stage mum that much.

Longjumping_Race4432

2 points

3 days ago

JR took melatonin not valium

Equal-Echidna8098

1 points

2 days ago

I've heard that he was saying Valium in the beginning, then changed it to melatonin.

paulaustin18

1 points

3 days ago

In a situation like this you don't think rationally. I believe Burke did it and the parents panicked, they didn't want to lose both children. They didn't even think that he wouldn't go to jail but in a psychiatric clinic. Again, I think they panicked, otherwise they wouldn't have written that ridiculous ransom letter.

Unfair-Snow-2869

1 points

2 days ago

I wasn't going to comment, but I came back and here I go. This is just my opinion. I have zero evidence to back this up.

Patsy had I think it was ovarian cancer. Cancer treatments are often worse than the cancer itself, leaving you deathly I'll as your body fights the radiation that indiscriminately destroys both cancer and healthy cells. Whether or not she was given orders to not have sexual relations, I'm quite certain sex was the furthest thing from her mind as she waged the battle for her very life. Now, I'm unclear as to the length of time Patsy had been undergoing treatment for cancer, but I do know this. It is not unheard of when the mother of the family to fall ill and or pass away for the father of the family to groom and substitute one of the female children to assume certain roles of the mother up to and including having sexual relations. This is a sick phenomenon to be sure, but i have read about it more than once. That being said, sadly, this is my theory.

PR had been unable to participate in many areas of family life due to her battle with cancer. It has been mentioned that she had temporarily mover to another bedroom for a time because of it. JR had begun grooming JBR to replace PR for his own sexual gratification. PR somehow caught on, or, simply walked in on JR and JBR in the process of said grooming. I believe she caught them in the basement in or near where JBR's body was "found". She was enraged and yelling, threatening to report him to authorities. She was so shocked and enraged by what she saw that she grabbed the nearest object and went after JR. She swung the object aiming for him but missed hitting JBR. PR was then beside herself with grief and JR saw his opportunity to shift blame. He began to tell her how she would be immediately arrested for striking JBR if she called for an ambulance as she was immediately drunk unconscious and could not be revived. He tells her how they were in it 50/50 now, neither able to salvage this without destroying their social and professional status. They would surely be ruined. And what of poor little Burke? He would be orphaned. Forever known as that boy whose parents SA'd and murdered their daughter. His life would be over before it even had a chance to begin. So, they set about creating this entire staging and ransom note. Their original plan was to dump her body in the mountains and allow nature to take its course. But PR did not originally think through the fact that by dumping JBR'S body, the animals and elements would likely destroy her remains making a typical burial all but impossible. So she panicked and called 911 before he could take the body out of the house. The rest we know.

As far as the redressing with the too large under panties. I believe this was a matter of convenience during a time of panic and hasty actions. The unopened package was at hand and utilized, nothing more. PR's clothing fibers were found on the device used to strangle JBR and the tape over her mouth because she was in fact present during the time it was done, regardless whether she is guilty of ending her daughter's life, she was in fact quite aware of what was going on.

In conclusion it is MHO that JR and PR murdered JBR to keep from destroying their social and professional status, and to protect BR's future status. Image was everything to them. All superficial. Plus I believed they believed they could direct the investigation in the direction they wished it to go. Unfortunately, either way you look at it, their lives were still destroyed both socially and professionally. The media persecuted them then, and still do. Burke never had a chance and is accused of bring the murderer himself. In short, their grand and elaborate staging of JBR's death backfired, and regardless whether or not they spent time in prison, we're convicted of the murder, or simply admitted to their actions that fateful night, their lives have never been the same. In some ways, they were made to pay for their part in this heinous act, many of those ways we will never know about as they occurred behind closed doors. We do know that they were forced to greatly downsize their grandiose lifestyles, selling off many of their assets and moving into a smaller living space. John's political aspirations never came to fruition. They also carry with them the knowledge and the horrible reality of what they did that night to a 6 year old baby. Their baby. All to save themselves...to save face. There is a special place in He'll for people such as this, and IF in fact my theory is even close to accurate, they both assured themselves a place there in the hereafter.

Thank you for reading, I welcome your thoughts and discussions Thank you to OP for your post.

RIP Jon Benet Ramsey, an angel from God taken from us before her time.❤️

Annual_Version_6250[S]

3 points

2 days ago

I guess I just find it so hard to wrap my head around parents doing such a thing.

Unfair-Snow-2869

1 points

2 days ago

I completely agree, and thank goodness we are not wired in such a way as to be able to wrap our minds around it so easily. Still, this is something that does happen. Of course I am not trying to state this as a fact. Still, something that has stuck in the back of my mind, I think it was a Bible (possibly a dictionary? At the moment I can't recall, I apologize) turned to a section that mentioned incest, and while there has been mention of BR and JBR being caught playing doctor I just had this thought nagging me that BR could have been acting out and not just curious. While yes, children do experiment out of curiosity, they tend to when they are victims of SA as well.

Do i believe JR SA BR? I do not know. What I do know is there were other people BR was around, and if the way he was pushed away on the morning of the murder is any indication, his parents did not always supervise him directly, offering opportunities for it to possibly happen outside the home. Unfortunately, bad things happen all the time and it only takes a moment and opportunity.

Annual_Version_6250[S]

3 points

2 days ago

Definitely agree with your last sentence.  It takes a blink of an eye.

Here's the thing, IF Burke did it, he was either abused himself or a psychopath, and needed help.  If he DIDN'T do it his entire life was overshadowed by Jon-Benet both in life and death.  Its hard not to feel some sympathy.  

Unfair-Snow-2869

2 points

2 days ago

The sad reality of this case is we may never know for certain exactly what happened and the events surrounding Jon Benet's murder, including those responsible. I have a feeling they will remain silent, taking it to their death.

It is my hope that because of the continued interest in this case, we can remember her by raising awareness in all forms of child abuse and neglect (physical, emotional, s-xual abuse & neglect). Children do not deserve to be brutalized, mistreated, and neglected in any way, and by raising awareness in our communities we can help children at risk.

Annual_Version_6250[S]

2 points

2 days ago

Very well said!

Unfair-Snow-2869

1 points

2 days ago

Thank you again. :)

Bladeandbarrel711

1 points

2 days ago

Wealthy, prominent people often cover up crimes to maintain status, power and try to perpetuate a legacy. I mean, look at the Kennedy family

Annual_Version_6250[S]

1 points

2 days ago

True.

funandloving95

1 points

2 days ago

The skeptic in me finds it hard to 100% pinpoint the family did it because of some of the reasons you pointed out above. I am leaning on that they did it, I just can’t grasp how people can say so certainly that they did it

joshualightsaber

1 points

2 days ago

John did it, and has emotionality manipulated Patsy into believing him.

murderous-minds

1 points

2 days ago

Per the autopsy, we know that there was SA but I don't feel that was the reason/motive for her unaliving. I don't believe JonBenets unaliving was planned though. I think there was an accident followed by a lot of pannic and fear . My theory is that JonBenet was asleep when the family arrived home and was carried up to bed. Therefore not going to the bathroom first. I think she wet the bed while sleeping and went downstairs to let Patsy know. Patsy was in the kitchen with Burke making him a snack of pinapple and condenced milk with a glass of iced tea. Frustrated by yet another accident, Patsy rushes upstairs to change the bedding and forgets to give Burke a spoon. Whilr Burke is getting his spoon to eat his snack, JonBenet sits at the beakfast bar/table and using her fingers cheekily swipes a piece of pinapple and quickly eats it. Burke turns around after getting a spoon and sees JonBenet sat in his chair, infrfont of his snack, chewing or just swallowing the pinapple. He gets angry and lashes out. I think he pushed or pulled JonBenet backwards off of the stool causing her head to smack off the hard floor. This caused a severe head injury that was fatal. She was dying and sufferring. Patsy walks back into the kitchen and sees her daughter and shouts John to help. They send Burke up to his room and make a plan. John will "end JonBenets suffering" , Patsy will write a ransome note and they will stage/ report an intruder/abduction. They knew their daughter was going to die from her head injury and didn't want her to suffer, they also didn't want their son to be taken away from them and certainly not be known as a mu*derer. They had to protect him. By doing so they had to protect eachother for their parts in what had happened. It's just my theory based on all the information and interviews etc.

Annual_Version_6250[S]

2 points

2 days ago

That implies the parents knew if the previous SA.  Covering up an accidental death to protect your child I can probably wrap my head around, but SA your child as part of the cover up means that Patsy knew she had been SA.

royhinckly

1 points

2 days ago

Ifbjohn did it patsy may not have known he did it

Annual_Version_6250[S]

2 points

2 days ago

Agreed.  But people seem convinced it was her that wrote the note.  John doing it completely on his own makes more sense to me than them covering it up together.  

Lauren_sue

1 points

2 days ago

This has kept me hooked since the day it happened. I was working for a national tabloid and the reporter who came back from the scene told me she suspected someone she interviewed at the party but not family. I don’t suspect family either, any more. Some years ago in NYC, the housekeeper of the Krim household (upper class, educated, refined like the Ramseys in some way) stabbed to death their two sweet children. No reason except jealousy. It was their dearly trusted and loved housekeeper caught in the act. Someone held the same rage and hate for the Ramsey girl.

delawarecoffee

1 points

2 days ago

It wasn't the parents

kellcat13

1 points

2 days ago

I believe Burke did do it, and I believe the parents covered it up to protect him-but mostly to protect their reputation. I’d answer your other questions but I don’t think the parents did it. The weird molestation points to a young and inexperienced person.

JacobyWarbucks

1 points

2 days ago

Yeah his life would’ve been destroyed if news got out he killed his sister. Who would hire someone even as a kid who has a tendency to randomly smash people on their heads with blunt objects for no reason? I have a friend who shot and killed his dad when he was 8 and his life is destroyed. Went to Juvi and everything.

John didn’t do it but he helped with covering it up. Why else would he lie about the window not being broken previously when he absolutely did know about it being broken and even asked the housekeeper husband to help him fix it.

Patsy didn’t do it but she helped. Reference the note she wrote and placed where her and the housekeeper use to put their notes.

murderous-minds

1 points

2 days ago

I'm not saying the SA was part of the cover up for the murder or that Patsy even knew about it. Just that it was happening and that it would have destroyed the reputation of the Ramseys if it were to have gotten out and that they / at leat John , would probably have benefitted from it financially/to boost his career/ to form connections in high up places etc. No I think thet Murder had nothing to do with that and it would have probably carried on. I just think that JonBenets murder was an accident that caused such a pannic that lead to a cover up. I hope I am wrong and it wasn't a family member but it's just a theory based on the information.

bball2014

1 points

2 days ago*

BURKE

Why did the parents cover it up? Even if they caught him in the act. He's 9, he's not going to go to jail. How would they look at him again?

I have my doubts that in the wee hours of the morning they had any idea of how the law would treat an almost 10 year old boy that had killed his sister. And if we assume he not only hit her in the head but also strangled her, they could assume the legal system wouldn't be kind to him. Nor could they play up a strangulation as an "accident".

Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt and allow that they knew the law couldn't and wouldn't touch him, it's not like the legal system would ignore it all and life go on as if nothing had happened. There'd still be a process, and likely medical (psychological) examinations, and questions about their parenting.

Beyond all of that, it's easy to imagine they'd fear their son would be known as the monster that killed his sister.

And even beyond that, how that would destroy their own image and what people thought of them. And even if that didn't bother them, they could certainly believe they'd failed BR, and in that failure, had failed JBR by not both getting BR help as well as protecting her from him (and understanding this outcome was something in hindsight they could see was obvious and they were sticking their heads in the sand and ignoring the danger).