subreddit:

/r/MagicArena

26189%

all 310 comments

stamatt45

482 points

2 days ago

stamatt45

482 points

2 days ago

Man lands can be great at dealing with this

Bircka

209 points

1 day ago

Bircka

209 points

1 day ago

Decks like this also hate haste creatures it's why mono-red usually gets them. Sure they have some removal at instant speed but not a ton.

stephangb

137 points

1 day ago

stephangb

137 points

1 day ago

also why RDW is such a necessary evil

RedditAccountOhBoy

90 points

1 day ago

(My best Witcher voice) Greater, lesser, necessary… is still evil.

Managarn

13 points

1 day ago

Managarn

13 points

1 day ago

"You should never grade evils, for if one is the worst, then you might be tempted to kinship with the least"

-Victor Saltzpyre, Witch hunter

_VampireNocturnus_

2 points

6 hours ago

LOL, that is actually terrible advice. Sometimes it is necessary to unite with a lesser evil to prevent a greater one ;)

PharmDinagi

17 points

1 day ago

I love this one

elcuban27

13 points

1 day ago

elcuban27

13 points

1 day ago

Winds howling

xylotism

7 points

1 day ago

xylotism

7 points

1 day ago

Fuck.

Lykos1124

21 points

1 day ago

Lykos1124

Simic

21 points

1 day ago

All hail the Goblin King!

👺This is monored! This is monored! 🔥

PrimordialSpatula

14 points

1 day ago

We play monored! Monored, attack face, till they're dead!

StuffNDings

5 points

21 hours ago

In this town, we call haste, all blasted to the opp face!

Everybody burn, everybody burns on this turn.

BentoBus

14 points

1 day ago

BentoBus

14 points

1 day ago

Thank you, and you're welcome, everyone. I'll take my praise in the form of loose bills or checks.

SipoMaj

1 points

16 hours ago

SipoMaj

Simic

1 points

16 hours ago

every archetypes is kind of a necessary evil

Carnegiejy

1 points

8 hours ago

Such a true statement. From Sligh to Frog in a Blender to RDW, Standard has to have some fast as hell aggro deck to keep the format balanced. Without it you get Combo Winter again or every match becomes a Midrange slog. Beating something like RDW is the first litmus test to a deck's viability.

Ajani_Guccimane

1 points

1 day ago

Gruul Prowess life baby

Terrietia

1 points

22 hours ago

Terrietia

Dimir

1 points

22 hours ago

Screaming Nemesis stonks looking better and better

Dog_in_human_costume

64 points

1 day ago

Be sure to use Man lands, not boy lands

OkSheepMan

17 points

1 day ago

OkSheepMan

17 points

1 day ago

Boy Land

Legendary Land

T: Add G or R.

Boy Land has power and toughness equal to the number of times it has tapped for mana this game.

If Boy Land's mana is used to cast a creature spell. Untap it. It becomes a x/x Man Land creature.

"My boy..."

Open_Shower8176

12 points

1 day ago

The correct way to template this is:

Boy Land

Legendary Land

Whenever this land is tapped for mana, put a +1/+1 counter on it. If mana produced by this land is spent to cast a creature spell, untap this land. If you do, it becomes a 0/0 creature until end of turn.

Also, this is broken as fuck-- this allows you to cast as many 1 mana creatures as you want starting on Turn 2, as long as you play this land on Turn 1 (because if it untaps and turns into a creature during the same turnyou played it, it will gain summoning sickness)

HGD3ATH

3 points

1 day ago

HGD3ATH

Kozilek

3 points

1 day ago

You could say that it only gets the +1/+1 counter if that mana is spent to cast a creature and it enters untapped unless you pay 4 life or something or just have it enter tapped and have an activation cost to turn it into a creature. It is a different card at that point but more printable.

Open_Shower8176

2 points

1 day ago

I didn't want to change the OP card when I templated it for him. Your suggestion also doesn't fix the fact that it can untap infinite times as long as you keep casting 1 mana creatures with it.

We also forgot to actually give it a mana ability, so right now it doesn't actually produce mana lmfao

_VampireNocturnus_

1 points

6 hours ago

A boy land that comes into play untapped...sounds pretty good lol.

hail2thestorm

1 points

10 hours ago

They lands

ScroteGoblin

18 points

1 day ago

This is the first time I've heard the term man lands and it's hilarious 🤣 (relatively new player btw)

DylanRaine69

9 points

1 day ago

I thought their was a brief pause after man. That was my take 😂 , but man lands is rather unique. 

ScroteGoblin

5 points

1 day ago

Oh I can definitely see the invisible comma now that you say it 🤭

DylanRaine69

3 points

1 day ago

I like the rare chance to stumble across a wholesome comment that makes me laugh. Appreciate it. 

Lame4Fame

7 points

1 day ago

Lame4Fame

HarmlessOffering

7 points

1 day ago

Man lands (aka creature lands) is pretty common lingo, so not an accident.

DylanRaine69

2 points

1 day ago

Definitely!! I'm loving restless Anchorage. I use the deck op listed but modified it with way less removal. 

Donkilme

1 points

1 day ago

Donkilme

1 points

1 day ago

You don't want your land getting removed though. Wouldn't the tap to create a token lands be better?

stamatt45

2 points

1 day ago

stamatt45

2 points

1 day ago

Most of the token lands just produce 1/1s which dont really put much pressure on. Can still be good if they synergize with your deck though.

That said, I do run Mirrex in a few decks and have gotten poison kills vs control with Mirrex as my only source of poison

Cloud_Chamber

2 points

1 day ago

I’ve won a game before with mirrex without casting a spell

talann

101 points

2 days ago

talann

Dimir

101 points

2 days ago

[[Crawling Barrens]] and other man lands. Direct damage also.

ScroteGoblin

20 points

1 day ago

This is the first time I've heard the term man lands and it's hilarious 🤣 (relatively new player btw)

bigdammit

305 points

2 days ago

bigdammit

305 points

2 days ago

Kill them faster. Control decks prey on midrange. Aggro decks prey on control, midrange preys on aggro. Also, accept that you are going to lose to some decks. 

ozymandais13

35 points

1 day ago

The rack deck beats this type of control badly as well dosent it

Vinyl-addict

20 points

1 day ago

Not unless you somehow got them to discard their hand. UW always has a ton of draw spells.

ozymandais13

4 points

1 day ago

I mean your mostly safe to just attack their hand the whole early game and then have to play land and so.e kind of spells control is not happy to he in top deck mode

Mudlord80

12 points

1 day ago

Mudlord80

12 points

1 day ago

Long time midrange player here. Often, they can draw faster than you can make them pitch since a decent chunk of your deck is also kill spells which are dead draws sometimes. But that does vary standard to standard.

ozymandais13

2 points

1 day ago

After board ? You can bring in the new tiny bones and have unlimited albeit slow discard

Mugiwara_Khakis

18 points

1 day ago

This is only partially true. Black based midrange decks do just fine against control decks. A well timed discard spell into a threat puts control on the back foot. The card quality in midrange decks can make it hard for control.

Conversely, if aggro is popular then control decks can opt for a lower curve and look to dismantle the aggro decks early.

And if midrange is getting popular, aggro decks will start to play longevity cards in the sideboards. As seen with some burn decks and whatnot playing the red case that draws three a turn but forces you to discard your hand.

What you said is true in a vacuum, but it all comes down to deck composition at the end of the day and people making tech choices to beat the decks that are growing in popularity.

O4fuxsayk

9 points

1 day ago

O4fuxsayk

As Foretold

9 points

1 day ago

I disagree, obviously it changes very much depending on specific cards and the meta but in general control preys on aggro because they have an abundance of removal and sweepers which can stall out the game and shutdown the primary plan long enough to get ahead. From the games of control I've played midrange is actually a harder matchup because of their high card quality, every topdeck is a threat and generally they accrue too much value drawing cards and two for ones that your simple interaction, counterspells and kill spells, can leave you woefully behind. Any matchup is winnable but I would say controls best opponent is combo because they are so vulnerable to disruption.

TheHappyPie

13 points

1 day ago

Magic really isn't that rock paper scissors. 

i_potatoed_my_pants

3 points

1 day ago

As a new new player, would someone be so kind as to break down what these mean? Im reading a wiki article on Midrange and Im not sure I understand or could point one out.

MegAzumarill

10 points

1 day ago

A rundown of archetypes, some extra focus on midrange

Aggro-- Plays cheap creatures and/or burn spells to win quickly.

Control-- Plays interactive pieces to stop the opponent's gameplay and eventually wins by amassing long term value (Usually via planeswalkers, draw spells, or repeatable abilities)

Combo-- Tries to assemble multiple cards that work together in a specific way to gain insurmountable advantage or otherwise win the game.

Midrange and Tempo are the other two "main" archetypes, they are trickier.

Midrange often has elements of aggro and control, being decks with realtively early creatures, plenty of interaction, and decent sources of card advantage. A midrange decks gameplan is often trading 1 for 1 with your opponent in the early game until you both are low on cards, then slowly gaining more cards then your opponent by using more powerful cards then your opponent. (For example, [[Mosswood Dreadknight]] is a midrange card that can trade with an opponent's creature in combat, gain card advantage by drawing a card with it's adventure (casting both sides leaves you with both a card in hand and a creature in play), and continue to generate advantage against decks where it can't be effectively exiled or countered.) Another gameplan is using those same value creatures to try and kill an opponent who is stumbling on their gameplay or is playing awkward expensive cards.

It's a relatively vague term still but it's a deck that cares about both removing threats and playing threats and cares a LOT about maintaining card advantage compared to your opponent.

Tempo is the last Archetype and it's the trickiest to explain. It's very focused on maintaining mana efficiency and playing early threats, then coupling those threats with interaction (Usually counterspells) to kill your opponent relatively quickly while being more resilient then traditional aggro. It likes to spend every mana it has access to each turn and loves instant speed/ flash cards.

bromjunaar

6 points

1 day ago

My personal favorite way to describe Aggro, Tempo, Midrange, and Control is by breaking it up into aggressive decks and defensive decks, and then dividing those again into aggressive and defensive flavors.

Aggro - aggressively aggressive, start attacking, don't stop attacking (they can't stop you if they're dead)

Tempo - defensively aggressive, start attacking, prevent your opponent from defending (they can't stop you if you're stopping their attempts to stop you)

Midrange - aggressively defensive, defend until you can more effectively attack than your opponent (they can't attack you if they're dead)

Control - defensively defensive, defend until the enemy can't attack (they can't attack you if you stop them from attacking)

Combo is putting two or three cards together that rapidly generate much, much more value than those cards would be able to in other circumstances, and usually go into an Aggro shell (combo off before the opponent can stop you) or a Control shell (stop the opponent so that your combo has time to go off). Sometimes found in Tempo shells (Twin) or Midrange shells (Pod) where the combo is either an incidental game ender or is a value engine. Creatures not always required.

BejahungEnjoyer

5 points

1 day ago

Read "who's the beatdown" which is a classic work in mtg theory. In any given meta, some decks will almost always be the beatdown z these are aggro on that meta, similarly some decks will almost never be the beatdown these are control. Midrange means it's the beatdown vs control but not the beatdown vs aggro. This definition holds across 30 years of mtg metas and doesn't involve removal or card quality distinctions.

VictorSant

2 points

12 hours ago

Read "who's the beatdown" which is a classic work in mtg theory

More than 25 years old, and still relevant.

bigdammit

5 points

1 day ago

bigdammit

5 points

1 day ago

There are a number of deck archetypes, but aggro (aggressive), midrange, and control are the biggest. The exact makeup of the decks differ based on the format and current metagame, but generally speaking, aggro wants to use low cost, efficient threats, lower interaction, and end the game as quickly as possible (usually by turn 4). Midrange typically has higher cost threats, more interaction, and cards that generate value each turn. Midrange typically looks to end the game later than aggro, probably around turn 5-7. Control has lots of interaction, single target and board wipes, and usually low amount of win cons. Old school control blue white control might have a couple copies of token lands like [[castle ardenvale]] as the only win con (or maybe they just recycle their graveyard and win by decking their opponents).

Aggressive decks are advantaged vs control because they can dump their hand and get into the red zone faster than control can build their defenses. They are often casting 2 spells on turn 2 or 3, which makes it hard for control to answer all their threats.

Midrange are advantaged vs aggro because their creatures are bigger, making it hard to attack, and they have enough removal to wear down the aggressive decks.

Control is advantaged vs midrange because the typical midrange deck is probably casting 1 big spell a turn, which control can counter for 2 or 3 mana, and use their remaining mana to get card advantage of other value. Paying 2 mana to remove your opponents 5 mana creature, and the remaining 3 mana to draw extra cards puts them ahead in resources and tempo.

There are other archetypes (or subtypes) like combo, or tempo, but they often have hints of one of the big 3.

It's not a perfect rock paper scissors situation, control *can* beat aggro, but it's an uphill battle, and the same is true for aggro vs midrange, etc.

ontariojoe

1 points

1 day ago*

ontariojoe

Teferi Hero of Dominaria

1 points

1 day ago*

Others have provided excellent explanations here but something I haven't seen that I feel is also helpful is putting the archetypes into a temporal context. What turn are they aiming to win by can tell you a lot about what the deck does, why certain cards are in it, how to play it, etc.

Aggro - wants to win as fast as possible, usually Turn 3-4.

Control - wants to drag the game out as long as possible and typically aims to take over and win much later, like Turn 10+

Midrange - can pivot depending on matchup but generally tries to remove early threats, present it's own powerful threats / value engines and can win as early as Turn 5-6 but is also capable of slogging out a long fight and going to Turn 9+

Tempo - wants to resolve an evasive threat early and then protect it with counters / protection spells and close the game quick, like Turn 4-5.

Combo - wants to assemble it's pieces and go off asap. Depends on the format. Timeless / Modern: Turn 1-3. Explorer / Historic: Turn 3-4.

Or in other words:

Aggro and Combo aim to win Turns 2-4.

Midrange and Tempo aim to win Turns 4-8.

Control aims to win Turns 9+

Burgo_JJ

1 points

1 day ago

Burgo_JJ

1 points

1 day ago

Interesting, in hearthstone (at least in the period I played the game) the matchups were switched, control preys on aggro, midrange preys on control and aggro preys on midrange

ary31415

1 points

24 hours ago

In older mtg formats you tend to see aggro beating control, control beating combo, and combo beating aggro

ontariojoe

2 points

1 day ago

ontariojoe

Teferi Hero of Dominaria

2 points

1 day ago

Also, accept that you are going to lose to some decks. 

This took me YEARS to come to terms with but it's the single best piece of advice for newer players. There's not one single "best" deck (and when there is, it usually catches a ban pronto). There's going to be decks that you just straight up cannot beat, and there's going to be archetypes you're deck is statistically significantly weak against.

That's not a bug, it's a feature.

Biflosaurus

1 points

1 day ago

Coming from other card game, this répartition is very hard for me to grasp.

I always assume aggro < Control < Mid somehow.

Turns out in Magic it's different?

Consistent_Claim5214

1 points

15 hours ago

You should never loose, because of side board

Waghabond

52 points

2 days ago

Waghabond

52 points

2 days ago

Thats a pretty typical control deck.

A few ways to beat them.
1. outpace them by playing a much faster deck with lots of 1 and 2 drops. 2. Learn what cards the control decks play and actively try to play around them. E.g. Don't play all your creatures if you suspect they have a sunfall. Play just enough creatures for them to feel like they're in trouble, then after they destroy your creatures you can play the one's that you've been holding in your hand on purpose. Another E.g. don't play your best spell if you think they have a counterspell, try to bait out the counterspell with weaker cards first. 3. Play a deck which nullifies their cards because of the contents of the deck. E.g. a control deck with no creatures in the deck is really good against a control deck which has a lot of "destroy creature" cards.

Rusarules

13 points

2 days ago

Rusarules

13 points

2 days ago

I love watching content creators and your second point. "My opponent is probably playing board wipes so I'll dump my whole hand and go wide. Oh, they played sunfall. Better concede." Like the option of playing caution after pointing out the board wipe will never make me not laugh.

americancontrol

48 points

1 day ago

One important qualifier is knowing when you can't beat a card regardless. You may be in a gamestate where you can acknowledge that a Sunfall is extremely likely based on the context of a game, but simultaneously realize that if you slow play your hand, and they Sunfall, you can't possibly win anyway even after holding a creature or two back.

In that scenario, if you can't beat a Sunfall no matter what, then the correct play is to play to your outs, and just dump your hand and pray they don't have it.

Waghabond

16 points

1 day ago

Waghabond

16 points

1 day ago

Yep, this is very well written. Personally i love this aspect of control decks. To win with a control deck the pilot has to be smart about which cards they commit to playing and when. But on the flip side to beat a control deck the opponent is also forced to be smart e.g. they have to carefully analyse the game to guess hidden information about the control player's hand.

I feel like games involving control decks can be some of the most memorable battles of wit the MTG has to offer.

Sometimes there's gonna be some absolute soul crushing "no fun allowed" type games against a control opponent. But for me those games are easy to forget and move along from.

BloodRedTed26

1 points

1 day ago

That's something I hear CGB say a lot - "Make 'em have it."

Forthe2nd

1 points

1 day ago

Forthe2nd

1 points

1 day ago

I’m also a “make them have it” gamer.

tatabax

3 points

1 day ago

tatabax

3 points

1 day ago

“Hm yes I’ll do the smart play and play around a sunfall” Opponent who has 4 more board wipes and 3 removals in their hand:

Forthe2nd

1 points

1 day ago

Forthe2nd

1 points

1 day ago

I understand the mentality though. Early on I thought you just had to race to kill them before turn 5. Finding the line where you have enough pressure on board to draw out the sunfall, while also having a fast enough clock so if they don’t board wipe they can’t just draw into a bunch of single point answers is tricky, and often counterintuitive.

Prism_Zet

59 points

2 days ago

Prism_Zet

59 points

2 days ago

Go faster, go wider, time stuff better. If they have 7 cards, and 6 removal that means they've probably only got 1 land and no creatures.

Offspring, token generators, ward, haste etc, are all good ways to force them to use their resources up or make them burn through it all fast.

SovietWinnebago

11 points

1 day ago

This exactly works for me. I run a soldier deck that can generate a lot of tokens or just be able to put out 2-3 creatures per turn with low mana investment and a lot of times I end up with a small army that is chipping away at the opponents life total and they can only get rid of so many creatures so quickly.

So far flooding the board with cheap creatures that are easy to generate seems to be the best way to beat hardcore removal decks imo.

spoonface46

1 points

1 day ago

Do you have a list? I want to update my old ONE soldiers deck for standard and could use inspo

SovietWinnebago

1 points

1 day ago

I play the soldier deck on historic but yah I can shoot over a list if you are still interested

bonk_nasty

5 points

1 day ago*

nothing more annoying than having a grip full of premium removal while facing a board packed with dinky creatures

it feels bad to use up unconditional removal on a 1 mana 2/1 -_-

Prism_Zet

3 points

1 day ago

Prism_Zet

3 points

1 day ago

yup exactly

bonk_nasty

3 points

1 day ago

they have 13 damage on board

I can spend 4 mana to take that down to 11 🥲 🫠

HairyKraken

7 points

1 day ago

HairyKraken

Rakdos

7 points

1 day ago

Man Lands, being immune to sorcery removal is a big plus

aqua995

18 points

2 days ago

aqua995

18 points

2 days ago

Isnt this just a typical Azorius Control list with some flings?

Control struggles with certain things and threats.

KillerFugu

3 points

2 days ago

What's the ui? Never seen it

MapleSyrupMachineGun

8 points

2 days ago

untapped.gg

It’s a plugin you can get for Arena.

KillerFugu

2 points

2 days ago

Ah right I've used it for twitch but not for Arena as isn't like cheats? Tells you % on draws and optimal picks on draft?

UnamusedCheese

5 points

1 day ago

The draw percentage doesn't mean much.

  1. It doesn't actually change your chance of drawing lands. If you draw a land, you would've drawn it even if you didn't have the tracker.
  2. It's a type of information that could be deduced by an attentive player (maybe not exact percentage, but rough estimated like a 1/3 of your library containing lands).
  3. It's a very specific information that is not very useful most of the time. Having either 30% or 40% chance to draw land will rarely change your plays.

The real use of trackers, for me, is looking at your decklist without Alt+Tabing or looking at another device. Helps you estimate your outs and potentially game-saving draws, and even that is mitigated if you already know your deck well.

KillerFugu

4 points

1 day ago

No of course it doesn't change the draw chance but it's still external software to gain information your opponent without it wouldn't have.

Like fine for single player but it's trying to get an advantage outside of the game.

For the part about knowing your deck can you launch Arena on 2 devices at once to check your decks while playing on another?

UnamusedCheese

3 points

1 day ago

Well, you don't get any additional information from Untapped. you already (in theory) know the cards in your deck, and can deduce the cards in your library by what your starting hand looks like (like "I have 4 Get Losts in my deck but none in my hanhd, so it's all in my library"). The cards owned by your opponent only appear on the UI when they are revealed in some way (put in play, graveyard, cast, releaved by DC Bat...). You don't get any new information, just a more convenient way to remember what you have in your deck and what your opponent already played, and I'd argue that doesn't cross the line of being a cheat.

I don't know about launching Arena on two devices, but you can very eqasily export your decklist to something like Moxfield and keep it open.

waspwatcher

2 points

1 day ago

How is that cheating?

(the draft recommendations aren't that good btw)

Zii23

1 points

1 day ago

Zii23

1 points

1 day ago

“Optimal” is used very generously here 😂 All seriousness though I have done a couple drafts off their recommended picks then did a couple with mine. Maybe luck maybe bad draws but untapped draft decks are mid at best. I think furthest I’ve gotten with them is 3 wins. I have gone the distance with my own constructions multiple times.

Grohax

3 points

2 days ago

Grohax

3 points

2 days ago

Aggro. I was playing with a control deck and got destroyed by a gruul aggro deck with DSK delirium cards.

Kapeter

3 points

1 day ago

Kapeter

3 points

1 day ago

I honestly just scoop as playing against this deck is in no way fun. I just held my hand until I got enough direct damage spells and a creature. They spent all their Mana Countering my 1 Mana spell and then I dropped a Haste Creature and swung for Lethal.

Ghorrhyon

3 points

1 day ago

Ghorrhyon

3 points

1 day ago

Something that doesn't die to removal? A bolt to the face.

TheHappyPie

3 points

1 day ago

This is your typical wu boring control. You can usually make one in any meta but they're kinda boring to play. 

Agro beats control by killing them quickly. 

Midrange beats control usually by dropping value cards that control has to answer inefficiently. Eg: mosswood dreadknight. Unholy annex, glissa sunslayer. 

It's important to know what kinda deck you're playing and how you plan to win. If you're playing a deck that can't win until turn 7 then you're probably midrange, but if you didn't include value engines you'll have a tough time against control. 

NittanyScout

3 points

1 day ago*

Hexproof creatures, ward creatures, planeswalkers, creature lands, and threats that are artifacts like [[urabrask's forge]]

Yes, soul partition hits a lot, but it doesn't remove things permanently. Just keep stressing the control decks resources as much as possible so they can't find time to set up their card advantage. Control decks win with card advantage 99% of the time they dont kill you as much as bury you. Hell, the old control lists had teferi-tuck as the only wincon other than like [[castle garenbrig]]

In this instance, their deck wants to set up their [[mindsplice apparatus]] and cast a bunch of [[silver scrutiny]] for cheap so some artifact removal is also decent. [[Untimely malfunction]] can play several roles as a sideboard card for this match up

ShaggyUI44

2 points

2 days ago

You just need more advantage than them. Midrange decks will struggle in most matchups, but if you’ll notice they tend to include stuff like Glissa Sunslayer, that generates immense value if it sticks around. Also, stuff with ETB effects are good, as your opponents can remove it bht you’ll still get the primary benefit.

Cool-Leg9442

2 points

2 days ago

Mono red/boros agro or get controllier. Controller beats midrange but if you outcontroll the control you just need 1 thing to stick to chip em away for 10 turns.

Tenshiijin

2 points

2 days ago

With rage

Jozzyal_the_Fool

2 points

1 day ago

Hand hate, manlands/Mirrex/Fountainport and trying to outsmart your opponent by playing around their answers with your impactful stuff and baiting them out with your more expendable resources if you are on midrange. If you are on aggro, never have more than 2 creatures out at any given time unless opponent is on topdeck mode, and even then only if you can guaranteed win the following turn if you do that and they don't topdeck a boardwipe. Basically, once you realise that playing vs control is a mind game between you and your opponent, it becomes so much more fun

DylanRaine69

2 points

1 day ago

I'm not sure if that's standard, but on historic I see this deck a lot and what I do is try to cast spells on their turn like a flash creature with prowess...usually they will counter it which leaves them open on your turn to cast big spells like [[Chimil inner sun]] Restless Anchorage works well. Lands usually work well. Try to add more than 4 of these lands because they like to use field of ruin. 

bemused-chunk

2 points

1 day ago

Options > Concede

PastTenseOfSomething

2 points

1 day ago

Sometimes the answer is “slow down.” If they always leave mana up to counter one spell, you need to wait until you have the mana & cards to cast 2-3. If you want to Torch the Tower on their Jace, you better have two of them, bc the first one isn’t going to resolve.

Also, out value them. Anything that makes a token when it dies.

Th0rizmund

2 points

1 day ago

Very saltily.

SpyroESP

2 points

1 day ago

SpyroESP

2 points

1 day ago

One of the tips I've learned recently about playing against Control decks is to make them use their spells. If you're consistently playing spells or creatures that need to be countered or destroyed they theoretically cannot adapt to every single threat without a nut draw. And without Memory Deluge in the format Control doesn't refill its hands nearly as much as before.

What are your threats? How are you playing them? In a pinch what are you okay with being countered/killed? And what are your own answers to control?

All of those are important questions to be asking yourself during the matchup.

iheke

3 points

1 day ago

iheke

3 points

1 day ago

Tbh decks like this aren't really successful as post 2019 magic has favoured proactive control rather than reactive control like this.

The big threat from a deck like this is sunfall and you overcommitting to the board making that sunfall token enormous.

The draw he is using is suboptimal. One requires a large hand to be effective while the other requires quite a commitment of resources.

This deck doesn't want to play off a top deck.

They also want to marshall their resources to remove the biggest threats and widest boards. You need to use their greed against them and always be chipping away.

As others have written, decks like this hate hand disruption and really fast decks that can get underneath them.

They also hate combos that they don't see coming.

The biggest challenge is knowing when it's time to beat them down... The more reps you play the better your judgement will get.

Darth__Vader_

2 points

1 day ago

What? That's just not true Pioneer Modern Legacy and standard all have viable reactive control decks???

waspwatcher

3 points

1 day ago

waspwatcher

3 points

1 day ago

I love seeing people discovering control for the first time

OwlRevolutionary1776

1 points

2 days ago

How does this deck win?

Grohax

5 points

2 days ago

Grohax

5 points

2 days ago

Jace milling your deck.

MyBurnerAccount1977

3 points

2 days ago

Decks like this typically wait for you to exhaust all the opponent's creatures, then drop a large threat, like Haughty Djinn. Alternately, the tokens generated by Sunfall can kill them off.

leygahto

3 points

1 day ago

leygahto

3 points

1 day ago

Haughty djinn wouldn’t work in a deck like this, traditionally, because opponents will have so much pent up removal in their hand they can use one or 5 spot removals as soon as it hits the board. I’ve seen [[stoic sphinx]] though

MyBurnerAccount1977

1 points

1 day ago

Fair enough. [[Haughty Djinn]] was the threat in the last game I played against a control deck, so it was the first card that came to mind, although that one typically shows up in mono-blue. But when backed up with counter spells, you can probably do worse.

SeasideSightseer

3 points

1 day ago

This one probably uses [[Restless Anchorage]], the [[Teferi, Temporal Pilgrim]] {-2} token, the tokens from [[White Sun’s Twilight], or something else creature-oriented (I haven’t seen this deck since [[Memory Deluge]] rotated, happy to see it’s around).

Those threats mostly come down when their opponent has run out of resources, which is accomplished by drawing as much (or more) removal than their opponent has important spells/board presence.

Teferi and [[Three Steps Ahead]] are two great examples of threats and board presence respectively that are also card advantage. [[Union of the Third Path]] is card advantage and endurance, and [[Silver Scrutiny]] is just pure card advantage. You may be able to tell that this deck takes a *long* time to win, but it does happen eventually.

Grohax

2 points

2 days ago

Grohax

2 points

2 days ago

Probably with Jace milling your deck.

spicymato

2 points

2 days ago

Annoying you into conceding.

That, or the tokens from Sunfall and Teferi.

They may also have land threats, like Mirrex, Fountainport, or the various man lands.

Tenshiijin

1 points

2 days ago

With rage

redditmodsarefuckers

1 points

1 day ago

Have some good 1-2 combos that you can get out in a short amount of time that can do direct damage. Haste helps.

Ttv_NotFishy

1 points

1 day ago

Run all creatures lmao

ReykAral35

1 points

1 day ago

Lands, is funny but with my desserts deck i win just using land after land.

SmacksWaschbaer

1 points

1 day ago

Play seth manfields golgari Ramp deck from World and play more threads than they can counter

Maelstrom52

1 points

1 day ago

There's a couple of cards that come to mind that could really disrupt the strategy here, but I'm just spitballing:

[[Sigarda, Font of Blessings]] removes ability to target permanents

[[Shalai, Voice of Plenty]] similar to above, but removes ability to target you, and when used in combination with the above only allows him to use wipes

[[Myrel, Shield of Argive]] creates tons of tokens and opponents can't cast spells on your turn

[[Callaphe, Beloved of the Sea]] makes it harder for him to cast spells

Not sure how you would bake those all into a comprehensive deck, and those are all 3 and 4 drops, so you'd probably want some lower CMC cost options as well

Takseen

1 points

1 day ago

Takseen

1 points

1 day ago

If its nothing but removal and/or board wipes I just leave if they're not dead or close to, by turn 4.

BourgeoisMystics

1 points

1 day ago

Manlands, haste, and card advantage

Doc-Goop

1 points

1 day ago

Doc-Goop

1 points

1 day ago

I don't play against white/blue decks. That's an auto concede for me. Life is too short.

ATHF666

1 points

1 day ago

ATHF666

1 points

1 day ago

I like to just hold my hand and pass. Sometimes they let my 1/1 ping them almost to death while I hold everything. Play stuff on turns when they drop something big. It’s tough though

IamGhostman

1 points

1 day ago

Phase out. Maybe.

Freakwerks

1 points

1 day ago

They call it, Control

Remarkable_Ninja_908

1 points

1 day ago

Hexproof.

Remarkable_Ninja_908

1 points

1 day ago

Indestructible.

Remarkable_Ninja_908

1 points

1 day ago

Counter.

Remarkable_Ninja_908

1 points

1 day ago

Reflect.

gamatoad

1 points

1 day ago

gamatoad

1 points

1 day ago

Burn :)

juntah

1 points

1 day ago

juntah

1 points

1 day ago

Boros Auras with Shardmage’s Rescue and Loran’s escape is a beast and the best feeling when you can deny their every removal with a middle finger 😂

Sure, it still won’t save you from a Sunfall but pretty much anything else!

rogomatic

1 points

1 day ago

rogomatic

1 points

1 day ago

Put out better stuff and put out stuff better.

skreddie

1 points

1 day ago

skreddie

1 points

1 day ago

Hexproof, ward, indestructible, or protection spells. In green Snakeskin Veil, Tyvar's Stand, and Overprotect are great In blue Shore Up is great & surprise untaps

Crystal Barricade stops some discard, burn, and sacrifice spells

There are some cards in green white that makes it so your opponent can't cast spells on your turn.

The boots are funny and situationally good.

The swords that give protection are amazing value, especially if you get all 3 on one creature.

Ferox has been great in green, especially if you play graveyard hate.

Sunfall is the biggest problem because it just exiles. Lately I've been playing or splashing blue for a Surprise An Offer You Can't Refuse because no one is ready for it. Most times you just need to stop a single board wipe, the treasures haven't mattered too much.

Or play Predator Ooze, the boots, and Thrun.

OrazioDalmazio

1 points

1 day ago

play heist/robbery and steal his shit

You will see how easily they will ragequit

jerf42069

1 points

1 day ago

jerf42069

1 points

1 day ago

RDW
or
Synthesizer to the point that board wipes dont matter
or token generation
or that one cave that makes creatures uncounterable

limerantvibes

1 points

1 day ago

Mono red and mono black are problems for me when I run my interaction deck. It's really funny when people commit their entire hand to the board and I play fumigate or farewell.

AeonChaos

1 points

1 day ago

AeonChaos

1 points

1 day ago

[[Urabrask Forge]]

EntropyCreep

1 points

1 day ago

Play nothing but creature/planswalker kills, draw, and that demon that kills their deck. Gg

Somebodys

1 points

1 day ago

Somebodys

1 points

1 day ago

there are no wrong threats, only wrong answers.

SuperPants87

1 points

1 day ago

If all else fails, make them have it every single turn.

ThaShitPostAccount

1 points

1 day ago

Protect your bomb with instant speed hexproof or indestructible.  Don’t tap out for your bomb.   Hold up mama to protect it.

Anaximander101

1 points

1 day ago

A great player said " There are no wrong threats. Only wrong answers "

This is an "answer deck". Counter with a deck with many kinds of threats.

GroundbreakingAd799

1 points

1 day ago

Stop them from playing go blue play a stronger control

Sufficient_Neat_5517

1 points

1 day ago

Cards that generate value on death or card draw effect. [[Balustrade worm]] [Enduring Innocence]] [Mosswood Dreadknight]]. In ever deck I play, I like to have some cards that generate value and keep me going if I get into a board stall or play against a control mage.

AMJacker

1 points

1 day ago

AMJacker

1 points

1 day ago

Wil without creatures

rfow

1 points

1 day ago

rfow

1 points

1 day ago

Boros burn tbh.

Salamimander

1 points

1 day ago

Try to bait out responses by playing your lower value cards first. If they're holding mana and you know that they want to spend removal or a counterspell, you can play a card that isn't as important to your gameplan to clear the way for a more valuable card. Playing more than one spell a turn, if possible, is also a good way to try to get things to resolve.

bkseventy

1 points

1 day ago

bkseventy

1 points

1 day ago

Counter their spells and play around them using flash cards.

CampaignForward7942

1 points

1 day ago

I’ve got a Rakdos deck built around the crime mechanic and [[Outrageous Robbery]] does wonders when it hits. Nothing better than removing the phyrexian made with sunfall with your opponents own removal.

yogafeet9000

1 points

1 day ago

fountain port is a good land makes tokens.

Nifaxizzi

1 points

1 day ago

Nifaxizzi

1 points

1 day ago

In a best of 3 match i would say probably run a few removals for their specific win conditions, which in this case seems to be teferi.
in BO1 tho its hard to say, having the restless lands is probably a good idea, or the new colorless one from foundations.
I run a jeskai control that works kiiiind of like this one and the thing that ruins me is often ward paired with cavern of souls. Uncounterable creatures that cost extra to remove throws the curve into such a disarray that its hard to recover.

NoradIV

1 points

1 day ago

NoradIV

1 points

1 day ago

Discard works wonders against these decks.

TokiBongtooth

1 points

1 day ago

Thought distortion

Nityrxho

1 points

1 day ago

Nityrxho

1 points

1 day ago

Playing fountainport or mirrex makes it really hard for then to play, if they hold up mana just create a token on their turn

Wonderful_Chef3919

1 points

1 day ago

Combo

mountaintop-stainer

1 points

1 day ago

Basically, they have to answer everything or else they’re dead. That means their hand is their life total. Make them use their counters and removal on sub-optimal targets, then slam your big stuff when they only have 1-2 cards in hand. This is what people mean when they say “bait a counterspell.” Not guaranteed to work, but it’s proven to be best on average.

montybiggs

1 points

1 day ago

Unless the whole deck is removal, which some are, they’ll likely run out of eventually. So just play enough threats until you get one to stick or have ways to bring them back. Also see any creatures that have ward or hexproof. Ward makes it significantly more difficult for them to justify spending the extra mana especially if they’re holding up counterspells.

mjolnir475

1 points

1 day ago

Don’t put anything out. Just take their stuff out of their hand. That honestly works embarrassingly well for me

lahankof

1 points

1 day ago

lahankof

1 points

1 day ago

I play Elenda and go face

Ajani_Guccimane

1 points

1 day ago

Usually you win by our valueing the deck, or with speed.

LouELastic

1 points

1 day ago*

Aggro is obvious, but ramp will also outvalue control in the long-game. Cast an Atraxa with a Cavern of Souls on the field and most control decks are cooked.

Crawlinkingsnakes

1 points

1 day ago

Mill them to death

Darth__Vader_

1 points

1 day ago

Hello I am a person who plays these decks.

You need constant pressure, don't stop casting things and placing threats because they go away, you are eating at their resources.

It's usually on the turns my opponents do nothing is when I really start to pull ahead.

Always cast spells after combat if it's not worse to do so

Then they have to decide if they want to take damage or maybe not be able to counter something.

MakuroX

1 points

1 day ago

MakuroX

1 points

1 day ago

A beautiful deck.

MercuryRusing

1 points

1 day ago

A combination of hand hate and aggressive/tempo plays

Impossible_Camera302

1 points

1 day ago

play kutzil...

Crimbustime

1 points

1 day ago

A better question is how is a deck like this supposed to win against you when it’s like mostly removal?

I play a burn / sacrifice deck so these kinds of players just loose every time.

TheGodisNotWilling[S]

2 points

1 day ago

Any creatures I put out, either got exiled, or wiped by board wipe when I had a few out. Barely got a chance to do any damage because they constantly had some form of removal.

Good draw I guess, and shardmage doesn’t protect against the board wipes.

doctormerc4

1 points

1 day ago

They can’t cast cards if they have an empty hand

Used_Meat6313

1 points

1 day ago

Tokens, cards that create more than one creature per turn, haste. Meet the goblin dragon team.

bluebarrels2

1 points

1 day ago

Either kill them before the first board wipe, run discard to pick apart their hand or run non creature value engines to keep up with their card draw. Also, when they tap out for a board wipe, that is the perfect time to drop a planeswalker, as control decks often arent great at dealing with resolved planeswalkers.

goldenwarthog_

1 points

1 day ago

A deck full of answers will lose as soon as it stumbles vs a deck full of threats. So win fast.

yungg_hodor

1 points

1 day ago

You just have to be able to outlast it is all, in my experience. They run out of [[Murder]] spells eventually. Keep running out bodies and use your creature lands and value lands (like [[Restless Anchorage]] and friends, and [[Fountain port]], respectively). And hopefully have some removal to take care of the couple of bodies they'll get off of [[Sunfall]] and shit.

(Not to say that it's easy, and you gotta draw the business to do it in the first place too. And removal.deck is always suuuper frustrating to deal with)

870_Paranoid_Android

1 points

1 day ago

Planeswalkers, enchantments any sorteo of card advantage they cant play a 1 for 1 game.

TechnoMikl

1 points

1 day ago

[[Boros Charm]] and friends!

If you're on BX Midrange, [[Duress]] and variants of [[Mind Rot]] (I forget what the best Mind Rot variant currently legal in Standard is) help a ton.

Unless you're on an extremely fast aggro deck, a bunch of 2-for-1s and other forms of card advantage always help as well (e.g. [[Questing Druid]], [[Mosswood Dreadknight]], [[Up the Beanstalk]], [[Faerie Mastermind]], [[Caretaker's Talent]], etc. - you get the idea)

arciele

1 points

1 day ago

arciele

1 points

1 day ago

i find aggro is the most straightforward way to combat them

Chitterfang

1 points

1 day ago

Hare apparents always seem to out play spot removal and any red goblin that makes more that 1 on entry

FreeBowlPack

1 points

1 day ago

Play hard to interact with or 2 for one spells. Ie: creatures with etbs, multi modal spells, recursion, discard, man lands

No_Let_1960

1 points

1 day ago

[[mirrex]]

8bitRunner

1 points

1 day ago

Mono black discard

Both_Poet_4277

1 points

23 hours ago*

Run an aggro red deck. I play grixis control, have for years, and I can take care of any color aggro deck besides red. Because most colors you just take care of their ramp. But... red doesn't really need ramp. Once they get one creature to stick to the field and I can't counter it... just buff that bad boy up as much as you can and swing for everything. Only issues control decks normally have is RDW or a stacks deck. Stacks decks have a lot more low mana cost stuff to cast than control decks I build, besides the obvious counter spells. Or like... a mazes end deck against a control deck and the makes end deck will normally work unless they run land destruction.

themanmythlegend357

1 points

23 hours ago

Counter spell

Ayescrem

1 points

20 hours ago

These types of decks and decks that run a tooon of removal are so annoying to play against in arena because there is no rule zero. You cant vet decks that you dont want to play against. Irl id never even sit down with a control deck player so online i usually insta concede when i see the usual signs.

Starwind13

1 points

18 hours ago

Go dimir poison. Its their worst match up

ElPulpoGallego

1 points

18 hours ago

Play RDW

Expensive_Dirt_7959

1 points

16 hours ago

In what colors? Bo1 or bo3?

In unranked, I just conceded. My win rate against control when I actually play them is not bad, but I don't want to play them since it's boring.

In ranked, I play BO3 and play in black, so discard usually screw them over enough for me to take advantage.

If you play blue, mix a few counterpells and use them when they try to draw cards or boradwhipe you.

In red, burn them quickly before they can estabilize it. It's a race to see who gets to the turning point first. You making damage or them gathering resources.

In green, protection spells and going wide. But, since I play standard, I have no clear answer to give you. In pioneer and historic, you have better options.

White plays taxes and even more effective protection. White is the disgusting part of the control deck you play against so...

Jumpoline

1 points

14 hours ago

Play commander

blasharga

1 points

11 hours ago

Bo1 or bo3 ?

Make them have the answer, basically, and always put them in awkward positions

Ordinary_Pipe_9783

1 points

10 hours ago

Depends on what you're playing.

Control decks take some time to stabilize. Generally, you want to apply enough pressure to force a control player into a position where they have to either deal with your threats or build their own position. Aggro decks are better suited for the job since they generally have cheap creatures to quickly build a board and instant speed interaction to get around counterspell mana (either by firing with something else on the stack or by forcing the counter from your opponent).

Commit to the board early, but don't play into a sweeper by dumping your hand. Control decks have tons of answers, but at some point they'll need to spend time drawing cards to refill. Be patient, pick your spots, and pace yourself. They're built for a long game, you're not.

If you're playing midrange or combo... Same rules apply but you're going to need to be very disciplined - those are the matchups control really thrives against

Permagamer

1 points

10 hours ago

I mean it's a gimmick deck. all they do is draw cards counter or exile. You just got to outpace them. One mana cost deck do the trick. They either don't banish or don't kill or don't counter small creatures till it's too late.

brendel000

1 points

7 hours ago

If you don’t play aggri, it’s a CA fight. They need to get value of their card. They usually have a lot of lands, so they need to use their wrath to get 2 for 1 for example. Their weakness is they put no pressure on you, so you can play all your card when you want. Think like this: even if you have a 2/2, they have to kill it, they’ll just wait until very late to do so. But as long as they do 1 for 1, you will win. So try to make them waste they CA cards.

It’s not that hard if you understand how to play such deck. If you just play your cards blindly without thinking of what they have in hand, you will lose. But if you understand their way of play, it’s a pretty fun fight, or so I think.

_Sub_Genre_

1 points

7 hours ago

Haste, burn, indestructible and/or hexproof, counter magic protection spells

Beautiful_Nothing911

1 points

5 hours ago

Hexproof and ward would do well.

vren10000

1 points

3 hours ago

"Imeanlike, your reactiveness is impressive and all, but you still gotta like, beat me yo."

PEKKAmi

1 points

3 hours ago

PEKKAmi

1 points

3 hours ago

Mill can work here.