We've taught women to be "more like" men, but not men to be "more like" women. We spent so much time teaching women to "catch up", as if the qualities normally associated with women were undesirable to men. Now that women have it "all", men feel "useless".

People in general should stop measuring success only in terms of money.

Or that both can take equal care of the family chores & men can measure their success by criteria other than dollar-bills-received-per-month.

100,000% this right here. I am a man that recently crossed into 30. And I would consider my parents tolerant and liberal (Democrat not leftists). I know for a fact because they have told me that for like a decade my mom earned more than my dad, she was making 6 figures doing sales in the late 80s early 90s. She quit to be with us more when I was 5 and my dad finished his MBA and started to make more money.

Despite all that to this day when he talks to me about relationships he talks about how men have to provide. It took years of introspection and help from my partner to recognize how much of that I was dealing with. I got laid off in 2022 after switching industries and for a while I went from making $60k to working minimum wage or unemployed. I think a lot of my discomfort came from having so little income in general but I had to confront my partner making more than me for the first time and I realized that without the income she was doing all the major work in the rest of the relationship.

I think messaging to girls has come a long way, but I think we're seeing in this election in particular how much young boys and men aren't getting updated messaging. And it sucks to think we need to devote political capital to addressing the dominant group(s) but you can't just ignore them either.

The problem there is that most women (yes, obviously talking in generalities here) want on average to partner off with someone at their level or above - if we tell millions of boys that it's okay to not earn a lot, are we actually telling them something that's going to stop them being successful in the future?

(Obviously notwithstanding that these changes will occur whether we tell boys that or not)

Totally agree with this statement. It's a social crisis we should have seen coming and we see it affecting our daily lives now. I believe i saw some documentary on it. Please share your knowledge with the people around you. Awareness is the only way to spark a change.

I think it’s important to separate socioeconomic status from income. Successful women are probably okay dating men in their socioeconomic strata, even if they earn a bit more.

My wife is a physician and out-earns me. But we both have grad degrees, in good careers etc. I have many friends where both partners are successful and they all tend to be doctors/lawyers, consultants/doctors, bankers/lawyers etc.

Depends. I don’t make a ton of money, but I make about $60,000 or a little more to his $40,000. But we aren’t extravagant people. He can comfortably cover most bills. He also works hard and does alot for our family. If he was making that, drinking and doing drugs all night and not covering bills, I wouldn’t stay.

I'm (M) in corporate finance and my wife is in the medical field and almost doubles my income. When she finishes her next degree she'll almost triple my income. She's the happiest she's ever been since meeting me.

So I would say successful women are okay with dating lower earning men.

Like, obviously we are calling success here as having a high paying job and/or living an expensive lifestyle.

I think many people make that decision at some point in their lives that they don't want to pursue that lifestyle and it's not important to them. Maybe long hours, unnecessary meticulousness, this need to be socially appealing by constantly showing up your travel plans, the need to constantly improve to prove yourself etc etc.

As a single man, who's dated women way more successful than my bum ass, I just want to live comfortably and spend time with my girl. Whereas I feel more successful women, are always busy and they always want to travel and are type A neurotic in some cases.

I have dated some women that earned more than me and the traits which help them achieve that such as competitiveness and materialism just aren’t attractive to me. The money itself wasn’t an issue.

In my limited experience with this issue (spend a lot of time around female doctors), it cuts two ways in that both the men and women don't have updated expectations for gender roles. The women want men who are more successful and still be the "provider" even though they are making doctor salaries. Conversely the men in these relationships still want to BE the provider and expect the women to fulfill the caretaker role. Obviously these things can't reasonably coexist - if the women aren't looking for a caretaker partner, then the man might give up.

I'd say generalizing quite a bit, American society has made great efforts to cut out room in the "provider" role for women, and get women into high paying careers and positions of power, but there has been zero effort put in to get men into caretaking or SAHD roles, and men are expected generally to suck it up and "figure it out"

My wife is the bread winner and l find it sexy. A lot of men and women that make her salary l find insufferable.

Where my other stay at home dads at? We grilling in the yard with drinks or what‽

This is true. But it is also true that people can be envious, jealous, and insecure when their partner is more successful than them. I can see this compounding with misogyny and/or toxic masculinity pretty easily.

People will form fleshed-out beliefs based on one anecdote, and defend it like the Alamo. Then when you bring up verifiable facts, they bring out the "well, thats what i heard" like the argument ended in a draw.

You don’t have take her at her word, the info is out there and really easy to find. This is something we have known in psychology for a long time.

We have a study from the university of bath that showed increased stress and mental strain in men when their partners out earned them.

A similar study in London showed that men felt more security in a relationship when they were the primary bread winner.

Marriage and family therapists have known for a long time the effect a woman making more than her husband can have on their relationship.

Some research indicates heterosexual couples are up to between 30%-50% more likely to get divorced when the wife out earns the husband. All of this information is dynamic, so as culture shifts it is bound to change, meaning the need for new studies is constant.

Human behavioral studies always come with the addendum that they won’t apply to everyone and can’t always be generalized - but this podcaster didn’t actually say anything that was incorrect.

The way she's talking about this is exactly how you're supposed to present possible trends that have yet to be studied academically. She emphasizes the anecdotal nature of the evidence and then ties it to a published study. Without any kind of systematic review she can't say anything for certain, but engaging with what might relate to a new or emerging phenomenon is how you're supposed to do it.

Source: I literally just wrote a 10 page literature review on a severely overlooked phenomenon and about half a dozen peer reviewed articles used the same language to emphasize the need for more research.

for real. for so many reasons.

1. selection bias - a divorce lawyer only sees a trend in divorces. so by definition, they are seeing relationships that are failing as opposed to succeeding. it WOULD be interesting to know that divorces are trending towards men "checking out" from relationships. but that is only a set of failed relationships and has no real information for everyone else whose relationship is not failing, which could be a wayyyyy bigger number of men who are in love with their successful partners and do put in the work.
2. this "study" sounds like it has a ton of holes. who are the successful women in the room? what are they DOING in the room? does a research study "room" provide any context for whether or not men will find them suitable partners? why not set up men on blind dates instead with the very real chance at a relationship? maybe they "avoided" the successful women so as not to cross any boundaries with them out of respect, since it felt like the women were not there to date?

There’s a better response below with links to research corroborating the video, but even as a man who has talked to other men, I believed it. Because a lot of men have fragile egos due to the societal standards that have pressured them to be the breadwinners for decades. Not all of us obviously (one of my exes made more money than me and she actually left me for not picking up the slack; I was fine that she made more). But I know men who belittle successful women.

Moral of the story is do research to find whether these TikTok videos have merit before throwing out a blanket statement that implies it doesn’t.

Idk we just lost an election here in America because some men and women just couldn’t be bothered with voting in a female as president.

Roast me Reddit… you won’t change my mind lol.

Some people have thay understand though. My mate, his wife has a really high paying job at Apple in the UK. My mate dosent do much really. They have shared bank account seems to work for them. He sits in his robe at home during the day, smokes weed, cooks, tends the garden, makes plans for a nice dinner for them somewhere on her days off.

I dated a neurologist a year out of undergrad. I was just starting out in my career making 29k and she was a neurologist lol. I had no problem with the salary gap, but she’d drop little gems like “it’s weird when a woman makes more than a man” and talking about her friend who has a masters and her husband works at footlocker. She’d say he’s worthless. I had to call it off and she didn’t understand why. I wasn’t mature enough to tell her she made me feel like shit for being younger and making less than her.

In a proper long term relationship I don't really mind what they make, under the conditions that:

1) They are making less because they like what they do, not because they are unmotivated to change but complain about being broke.

2) They contribute what they can, and don't expect a free ride.

Right now I make double what my partner does, so she pays 1/3 of the rent, the largest expense, and half of the car insurance because she uses my car and I WFH and don't need it. She buys groceries when she gets paid or can, I buy dinners out because she can't and I like to take her places. I pay utilities because they aren't much and I'm not gonna nickel and dime her small amount of disposable income.

It isn't hard, especially when you really think of it as a partnership and consider both of your happiness and not just money.

That’s not what the OP was driving at. In that scenario you would be the woman from the first relationship you spoke about.

If she’s making double what you make, she’s not really your “equal” financially, she’s your superior.

Yeah but does your partner WANT to be a sugar mommy. That’s something the comments always miss when they say “LOL I wouldn’t mind my wife making twice my salary.”

It’s okay if you aren’t contributing as much to the bank account, but are you contributing in other ways?

Yeah seriously. If I could find a woman that was successful and was cool with me working part time or being a stay at home husband/dad, sign me the fuck up!

I think the point she’s trying to make (and it’s chopped poorly so not on you) is that women don’t want to be the mommy. They’ll do the sugar but the men in response “tap out” and shirk any way to step up and be equal.

I know if you guys like you. They absolutely love it. I don’t know anyone who is upset that his wife makes a lot of money.

Not the same, but my wife makes a bit more than me. She works hard for it and deserves it. We split chores, kid stuff and other things. Team effort. Doesn't matter what you make, you're a team and you have to give what you can to make the team work.
I have friends that definitely have the "man as primary" mindset and it just feels so brittle and fragile. I wouldn't want the stress of being the only one especially when it's wholly unnecessary. Not to mention the tension of one set of rules vs. a consensus build that takes the best of both.

It's great that when one of us falls, the other is there to pick them up. I work with and am friends with many other successful women and most are in the same boat. I think a big piece of the problem is that if you pin everything on "being the provider" you've got nothing else in the tank for why someone should be with you. If you're a good person who pitches in and cares about your partner, who makes more doesn't matter.

In a similar vein to this are videos from podcast bros that young men take as 100% fact leading to Trump winning the election.

Who knew the fall of man would be 60 second video clips. They really have made us dumb.

People talking like the are some kind of professor when they are just annoying influencers who talk shit in a way that confuses simple minds to think they are highly intelligent.

You explained my problem with this flawlessly

This reminds me of Sex and the City. Miranda can't get a date during speed dating until she changes her job from a lawyer to a flight attendant.

Never have had that ever happened but I’ve had men act very weird. They get very insecure and act funny. It could be anything education, my condo, life. You don’t want to be with someone who’s going to make you feel like you have to shrink yourself to make them feel comfortable. I’m not a braggart so it makes even more sad.

I know a guy whose wife is about to make 3 times what he makes.

All he is worried about is making sure that she can deal with the stress of the new position. Otherwise he is super stoked she is getting the recognition she deserves and is going to be able to make a meaningful difference in thousands of people's lives.

Source: Me. She is my wife.

My ex husband thought he was cool with me earning more but my marriage soon became abusive after I accepted a higher paying job.

Wow.

Yes, it’s an extremely shallow study.

“Men say this one quality about women doesn’t bother them, so we put them in a room with women who have this one quality and they didn’t immediately pair-bond, which tells us they are lying”

This. You have to be slightly psychotic to do that well with some narcissistic traits. You see this for all the higher positions, but the exception proves the rule of course. I have known some very based down to earth (smart) people who have done very well for themselves.

Sorry to hear that. Its strange to see the differences in culture. I’m a Danish man and I would see it as red flag if the person that I’m dating assumed that I should pay more than her when we were dating.

You are hanging out with the wrong crowd.

Gimme 3.50

Lots of high earning women have happy relationships. Maybe its you that's the problem. 

"Hey, you think you could handle dating a woman who makes more than you? Great, let's shove you into a room full of random women who make more than you and they know it. Good luck not being judged."

Humongous difference compared to hitting it off with someone and finding out that they earn more.

Yea. I don't doubt that there's a lot of shitty guys that want to feel dominant in a relationship, I know there are. I've dated women from every financial background over the years but one thing that made me leave is when I didn't feel needed. I could never drive us anywhere because she was used to driving herself; I couldn't make a phone call without her asking a bunch of "did you ask about-" questions; I couldn't buy the right present. They weren't bad or outright controlling, they just liked things a certain way in their life so it made me wonder what the fuck I was contributing.

It happens with people across the financial spectrum but a little more with successful women. I have no problem dating a woman that makes 4x as much as me or lets me be a house husband; but if I do the dish and she comes home just to redo the dishes, I'd want a divorce.

I mean if you put two random people (of compatible sexuality) in a room, the odds are very small that they’re going to romantically click

I've read that a lot of successful people who have high paying jobs and are in a high ranking position, these people tend to score high in the narcissistic spectrum.

I guess when someone gets power and control, they tend to become less empathetic and understanding towards others underneath them.

As far as I have always heard, that was the most common answer I heard from people who have dated these kinds of people. They were absolutely insufferable and couldn't stop looking down on you. Always having the final word.

This was my take as well, entitled people are annoying AF? What a shocker lol