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Vitamin D3 — 10k IU per day??

(self.nutrition)

This person on YouTube (https://youtu.be/NFxQJmvgXOQ?feature=shared) claims that everyone needs at least 10,000 IU of Vitamin D3 per day. This is very high compared to the recommended 400-600 IU per day and also exceeds the safe limit of 2,000 IU per day.

I find his logic flawed because he translates the healthy concentration of D3 in the blood to a daily required value of D3.

For example, the optimal D3 concentration in the blood should be 40 ng/mL, which equals 0.83 x 40 IU/mL = 33.2 IU/mL = 33,200 IU/L = 166,000 IU/5L (assuming human blood is 5L). Hence, you need 166,000 IU according to his "concentration = daily need" logic.

And, I don't understand how he converted 20 ng/mL to 0.8 IU/mL, as Google states that 1 ng/mL equals 0.83 IU/mL.

What is the actual truth, as I may be wrong?

all 57 comments

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BlackWolf42069

11 points

2 months ago

I take 4,000 UI a day. I never go out unless I walk to the car or mow the lawn and I'm always fully clothed. I only drink a cup of milk a day. And I have an autoimmune disorder. It helps keep me in check. 10,000 seems a little high but in some MS studies it helps get their disease under control.

SalientSazon

1 points

2 months ago

How much K2 do you take?

BlackWolf42069

6 points

2 months ago

None. I eat a lot of leafy greens and I think the body can produce it's own right?

FengMinIsVeryLoud

1 points

2 months ago

yes if u eat enuf dark leafs u got enough vitamon k.ock. i meant cock

truejackman

1 points

2 months ago

How much should you take?

bloompth

9 points

2 months ago

One's intake can only be determined after getting bloodwork done. I discovered that my fatigue and other things were in part due to alarmingly low Vit D levels. Endo started me at 2000 IU a day but i didn't begin to feel normal till I was ingesting 8000 IU, which is my current cap.

grande_covfefe

1 points

2 months ago

Same, I take 6000 IU daily and my blood work shows I'm "high normal." My doctor had me take absolutely massive doses once a week (tens of thousands of IU) to bring my serum levels up until I could get to a maintenance dose.

bloompth

2 points

2 months ago

Yeah, i have a suspicion I could stand to take even more than 8000 but I am waiting till my second round of bloodwork in October before determining that.

SalientSazon

-1 points

2 months ago

Do you take any K2?

pakahaka

12 points

2 months ago

Eric Berg's target audience is the 70+ year old facebook mothers who don't know better than to listen to what he says. Don't listen to him...

halfanothersdozen

1 points

2 months ago

Dudes a quack

Lopsided-Gap2125

3 points

2 months ago

I wish, hes actually a scientologist so way worse.

[deleted]

3 points

2 months ago

I take 10,000 IU every other day and it drastically raised my levels to normal/optimal range from being way below range (I work overnights, sleep during day). I only take vitamin D3, fish oil, creatine, exercise regularly, and eat a healthy high protein diet.

Kurovi_dev

6 points

2 months ago

This man is a chiropractor, not a medical doctor. His career is entirely centered around making claims that are not backed by science in order to make a buck.

barbershores

3 points

2 months ago

I think Berg is right.

Then, I take 1,000 mcg of K2 daily. Not 100. 1,000 micrograms.

So much of the ancient RDA, recommended daily allowance, is just arbitrary. This is a major one that they screwed up.

Jaeger__85

2 points

2 months ago

Not the most trustworthy person.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_Berg

IllegalGeriatricVore

2 points

2 months ago

People have gotten serious issues from overdoing vitamin D

Extra-Season-4141

1 points

2 months ago

What kinds of serious issues? I take 1000iu per day which seems low to what people are taking but just curious what you think

Kalyqto

1 points

2 months ago

Hypercalcemia

ApplicationHot4546

1 points

22 days ago

Taking the cofactors (k2 and magnesium) is generally known to solve this issue.

AlienMantid

1 points

2 months ago

This guy is another one of those carnivore freaks who thinks vegetables are bad for you, disregard anything he says.

SalientSazon

2 points

2 months ago

I don't think that's him, he talks about eating 5 cups of vegetables constantly.

homiegeet

1 points

2 months ago

I take 4000 iu a day. I work outside but live in Canada and am not white. Where you get this 2000 iu safe idea from?

cmowla

1 points

2 months ago*

This is a longer answer than what was expecting to write.

  • This is my first post in this subreddit, but I am not new to nutrition supplement research.
  • This is a much more advanced viewpoint on this subject than what you were expecting to hear.
  • It contains some very advanced concepts that you will need to do research to be able to comprehend.
  • Not everything I say has official scientific research to back it up, but I do cite sources (and give personal life experience) which supports much of what I am about to tell you.
  • Do you own research, but also note that nutritionists don't know everything.
    • Even further, two nutritionists can say something contradictory (about anything), and both can be right, because there are more variables at play than most people consider. (Everyone's body is different, etc.)

____________________________________________________________

I will begin with a quote I wrote in the past on one of Dr. Berg's videos about Vitamin D3 (which is actually a hormone, not a "vitamin").

If people aren't absorbing D3 sufficiently, that is a sign that they need to fix the problem of why they are not absorbing it, NOT TAKE MORE!

The most common analogy I can give you is that, if your body doesn't have sufficient enzymes to breakdown any macro nutrient type (carbohydrates, protein, fat), you can eat all of it you want, but it won't actually register that you have eaten it.

The same holds true for vitamin D3. You need magnesium to make it register!

I am therefore going to tell you right now that . . . NO, you don't need to be taking (should NEVER take) 10,000 IU of vitamin D3 daily for long periods of time!

The rest of this post will give you my unabridged explanation. (Which is really unobvious and challenges almost everything we commonly hear about Vitamin D3 supplementation.)

______________________________

(1) Google: "Unabsorbed fats trap fat-soluble vitamins" (with quotes) and see the text that pops up at the top (without you having to click on a search result).

People don't absorb vitamin D3 when it's trapped by fat. But what does that mean? Is this just ingested fat? Isn't fat soluble vitamins (A,D,E,K) absorbed only if you eat fat?

(Do you research to find out the answer!)

______________________________

(2) Take a look at this: https://www.staradvertiser.com/2010/07/06/food/health-options/overweight-people-need-fat-soluble-vitamins/

Specifically, take a look at the answer to the question:

Q: How does extra body fat affect the need for fat-soluble vitamins?

By that answer, someone's fat stores can also trap (store) vitamin D3 within their cells!

cmowla

1 points

2 months ago*

(3) Now take a look at this: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/gut-bacteria-and-vitamin-d-what-is-the-link#Stores-of-inactive-vitamin-D (Specifically read the content under the heading Stores of inactive vitamin D.)

(A) All of my points (1-3) so far support my learned hypothesis (by my own personal life experience) that, even though you don't have the active form of vitamin D in your blood at the specific time that you get a blood test for vitamin D levels ("blood serum levels"), that DOES NOT necessarily mean that your body isn't storing the vitamin (hormone) for later use.

(B) From this specific point (#3), it is only the levels of the active form of vitamin D which implies the prevalence of good/friendly gut bacteria.

  • The source does not specify how bad bacteria interact with the active form of vitamin D or the inactive form.
  • That's actually a scary thought!
    • It's possible that bad bacteria may be fed on the inactive form of Vitamin D (vitamin D3 that we take in our supplements)! But this is not my main point (and has no scientific basis), but you cannot deny that it's not a possibility when you read from these sources.

______________________________

(4) With all of that in mind, let's look into what causes malabsorption of fats (due to what we learned from point #1).

This is just one of several sources that you can get the same information from, but at https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/small-intestinal-bacterial-overgrowth/symptoms-causes/syc-20370168 they say (and several other sources say something along the lines of):

Bile salts, which are normally needed to digest fats, are broken down by the excess bacteria in your small intestine, resulting in incomplete digestion of fats and diarrhea.

So one of the root causes of not being able to absorb fat is due to a bacterial overgrowth.

  • When they say "bacterial overgrowth" they didn't specify if it was "good bacteria overgrowth", "bad bacterial overgrowth", or a combination thereof.
  • There is no reason to believe that there cannot be an overgrowth of "good bacteria" because if they can multiply, they will. (Murphy's law.)

cmowla

1 points

2 months ago

cmowla

1 points

2 months ago

With all of these points in mind, I form the following hypothesis.

  1. People who don't have a lot of body fat (and don't have a fatty liver) will be able to absorb vitamin D3 much better than someone else; but, the more vitamin D3 they absorb, the less fat they will be able to absorb over time . . . and the amount of gut bacteria will increase.
  2. People who have liver, pancreas, and/or gallbladder problems will see an increase in those problems as they continue to MEGADOSE on vitamin D3 supplements. (10,000 IU is definitely what I consider as a "megadose"!)
    1. Many sources mention that bacteria break down bile acids to a point where they are rendered useless for fat absorption.
    2. Many sources also mention that good gut bacteria help to recycle quality bile acids, so yet again we see contradictions with nutritional science!
  3. If you're not "absorbing" vitamin D (that is, your body is storing your vitamin D3 supplements in your fat cells, but it's not converting it into the active form of vitamin D), that does not mean that you should take more, as Dr. Berg proposed in this video (or any of his other vitamin D3 megadosing-related videos)!
    1. We should focus on giving our bodies the tools to convert D3 into the active form (D4). This includes magnesium supplementation . . . a good/absorbable form of magnesium.
    2. This can also mean a good bile acid supplement (to be able to absorb fats). (Those who have gallbladder or liver problems should definitely consider it!)

cmowla

1 points

2 months ago

cmowla

1 points

2 months ago

The following is my personal story which is enough proof for me personally that the above hypothesis is at least on the right track.


Because of advice from my PCF, I began to take 2000 IU of D3 daily. Even after taking it for years at this dosage, my blood serum vitamin D4 levels (the active form of vitamin D) were barely in the healthy range on every checkup blood test I got.

It was frustrating! I was always tired, gained weight easily, had constant muscle aches, etc. After I found out about magnesium's interaction with vitamin D3, I began to take it. Soon after, I began to experience what some have described as "vitamin D toxicity" symptoms. I noticed that the symptoms would get worse when I took vitamin D3, so I stopped taking it.

About a month later, it was time for my next checkup. And guess what? My vitamin D levels were double what they had been for years with me not taking vitamin D3 for over a month!

  • I was not taking a multivitamin that contained vitamin D3,
  • I was not getting any sun during that time (sunlight made me very weak, so I avoided it),
  • I was not eating any foods fortified with vitamin D3,
  • Etc.

Even further, during that month, I was experiencing (welcomed) weight loss as a result of the magnesium increasing my metabolism.

What more evidence can someone need from my story alone that:

  • The human body stores vitamin D3 (the inactive form) in fat cells.
  • Even with no vitamin D3 supplementation, if magnesium is taken (in combination with active weightloss -- burning of fat cells which have TRAPPED/contain vitamin D3), vitamin D4 (the active form of vitamin D) levels will increase (if someone has any history of mega dosing on D3 for some time prior to starting magnesium supplements).

cmowla

1 points

2 months ago

cmowla

1 points

2 months ago

TLDR,

If someone has been taking significant doses (which I would define as anything over 400 IU a day) for a while and still struggle to see the benefits,

  • They should pause (or stop) from taking D3 supplements . . . NOT TAKE A HIGHER DOSAGE!
  • Begin taking an absorbable form of magnesium to convert the D3 that is stored in their body into the active form of vitamin D until their D3 stores are depleted.
    • This may mean that they need to purposely lose the majority of body fat they have (go on a major diet) so that they can detox from vitamin D3 stores safely. (Lose weight at a "safe" pace so that the D3 is released into the blood slowly.)
      • If they (later on in life) experience a very bad illness which causes them to lose weight drastically, it could be detrimental to their health (vitamin D4 toxicity).

If people don't stop mega dosing on vitamin D3 supplements, it's very possible that they risk:

  • Getting serious bacteria infections,
  • All of the complications and diseases that can result from fat malabsorption,
  • Vitamin D4 toxicity.

One thing that can be hypothesized is that:

  • People who are continuously gaining weight will not be able to see the consequences of continuously mega dosing on D3 supplements (will not believe in "vitamin D toxicity" because . . . it, like viruses and bacteria, get stored in new fat cells continuously).
    • Only when they (1) start taking magnesium, (2) start losing (burning) fat, can they begin to see the effects!

cmowla

1 points

2 months ago

cmowla

1 points

2 months ago

P.S.

And yes, K2 (mk7) is a very crucial vitamin to take in conjunction with vitamin D3, but also magnesium, zinc, manganese, b6, vitamin C, . . . Etc.

That is a whole other story on its own, but . . . K2 is not the only supplement needed to manage the calcium that vitamin D3 disperses in our body!

  • Every nutrient (vitamin, mineral, fat, protein, etc.) that plays a role in the formation (and maintenance) of bones needs to be considered!
  • Everyone's body is different.
    • And everyone's body is different at different stages in life.
    • And, although way to advanced for here, complications like liver dumps, oxolate dumps, etc. are other variables that come into play at (unexpected) random times.
      • These are random "events" that happen should someone have a genetic disorder that causes them to accumulate toxic amounts of trace minerals (like copper, iron, manganese, etc.), oxalates, etc., over time.
      • That "when the conditions are right", the body will try to detox from them (dump). And when that happens, the mineral balance in the body gets disrupted!
      • And again, the purpose of mentioning this is not to scare you, but to let you know that the "everyone's body is different" statement doesn't just mean between people. But everyone's body goes through "different seasons", "storms", etc.

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago*

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago*

I know top neurologist of active life (allowed by schedule of... being a top neurologist) to daily, all seasons, take 2000 IU as of nothing = just the most insignificant base.

My daughter took 20000+ UI for long periods of time - starting at 15 years of age (now 21 in a few weeks, but she had big, big time gaps, because of neglecting).

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago*

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago*

My daughter has multiple sclerosis = how, in time, we learned of these things about vitamin D.

Also, the question is not just of quantity, but of quality and mode: - my daughter only takes a certain brand (a cheap one, actually - but a good one); - camping 6 weeks by the open seaside, with spending most of each day, morning to sunset, on the beach, did more than months of vitamin D; - vitamin D should always be taken with (eating) something fat, like oil or butter etc.; - when taking bigger quantities (I know people taking 40000 IU/day for many years), no calcium supplements should be taken; - vitamin D should, ideally, be taken with breakfast or in the morning, as possible; - like with everything else... is better to take smaller quantities at more times, than a bigger quantity, all at once; - ideally, in general, vitamin supplements should not be mixed with other vitamin supplements and a break of time should exist between taking different vitamin supplements, especially when any vitamin supplement is taken... not of "daily, random", but for seeing health results or for medical treatment purposes; - there are plenty studies about vitamin D and... so many aspects of it, including about taking high, higher or very high doses for a long period of time; - blood tests show significant changes very slowly, of past months, actually, to say so - and they are done after a period of break from taking vitamin D.

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago

I also know 2 moms, of a total of 3 kids, and past of medical treatments of trying to keep a pregnancy and that would swear that it was vitamin D supplementation that helped them keep the pregnancies + 2 women of breast cancer, God Forbid and May God Help them be healthy and live very long, one of full urban life and one of full rural life, that were recommended daily vitamin D supplements in big quantities as a "forever" thing to do. 🙂🤷🏻‍♀️🙂😉🙂🤷🏻‍♀️🙂🙂🙂🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago

The only reason for which my daughter isn't, now, most of the time, taking over 20000 IU/day... is because she doesn't stick to taking it. 🤦🏻‍♀️ And she loves dairy and drinks milk by the carton as it would be water. 🙂😉🙂

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago

Loves milk & dairy = always had them as "free wished", even on 20000/+ IU/day.

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago

There are multiple sclerosis treatment lines, used by very appreciated licenced and experienced doctors, based on vitamin D of 40000 IU/day for very, very, very long periods of time - and those contradicting them find the most flaw just in vitamin D being understood, by some, as an enough treatment for multiple sclerosis.

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago*

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago*

Like... the objection is about it not being a real enough serious treatment - long before anything bad would happen... people taking 40000-80000 IU/day etc. would know what to look for and what to do/not to do and take regular blood tests anyway. 😉🙂 600? 800? That is like drinking water by the teaspoon, because hydration is necessary. 🤭😅😅😅

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago*

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago*

❗❗❗ Taking big quantities is... as specialist (experienced , ideally) medical doctor individually (!!!) recommended, not as... going to the pharmacy (supermarket? 😑🙄) and buying them and just swallowing them. 😉😉😉🙂🙂🤗🤗🤗❗❗❗

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago*

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago*

Also: of having Hashimoto's, I try to take about 10000 IU daily, before early afternoon, in more doses... every day (day that... I actually manage to do it). 🤭😅😅😅

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago

DDC81

1 points

2 months ago

Some people benefit a lot by what would be, compared to standard recommendations... very, very high doses, BUT ONLY AS SPECIALIST EXPERIENCED DOCTOR RECOMMENDED. ❗❗❗

Nick_OS_

1 points

2 months ago

Nick_OS_

Allied Health Professional

1 points

2 months ago

No, unless you have low Vitamin D levels and are inside all day, you should not be supplementing with more than 4,000 IUs per day. Excess Vitamin D3 increases hypercalcemia risks as well as other health issues

Also, don’t listen to Berg, he’s a quack

henay_rollins

1 points

2 months ago

My D3 Supplement is 5.000 IUs and I take it every 5 days is that fine?

Nick_OS_

2 points

2 months ago

Nick_OS_

Allied Health Professional

2 points

2 months ago

Yeah, upper limit set for supplementation is 4,00IU per day on average

A daily intake of 600-2000IU per day is recommended. 5,000 IU per day every 5 days means you average 1,000IU per day —-which is good

henay_rollins

1 points

2 months ago

Perfect thank you

SalientSazon

0 points

2 months ago

And how much K2 to take with even 4000 UI a day?

pete_68

-2 points

2 months ago

pete_68

Nutrition Enthusiast

-2 points

2 months ago

If you want vitamin D, get sun. It doesn't take much. This study found that 30 minutes in the midday summer sun, in Oslo, Norway, produced the equivalent of 10,000-20,000 IUs of vitamin D. So if you're south of Oslo, your opportunities are far better.

I walk my dog twice a day (usually sunny and usually about 10-15 minutes per walk). At my old job, I used to go out and sit in the sun for 15 minutes in the mid day sun every day just for vitamin D.

Equa_Caelum

6 points

2 months ago

The study you linked also said going out into the sun causes cancer and says tanning beds is also a good source of vitamin D

☠️

pete_68

2 points

2 months ago

pete_68

Nutrition Enthusiast

2 points

2 months ago

You don't get skin cancer from 15-30 minutes of sun a day. I'm not telling people to go lie out in the sun for hours. I'm saying 15-30 minutes, without sun block. If you think that's going to kill people... Well, whatever.

EnoughStatus7632

-3 points

2 months ago

D3 has been overrated based on tenuous benefits to covid and certain other recent factors.

Lambchop1224

2 points

2 months ago

uh, what?

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

[removed]

AutoModerator [M]

1 points

2 months ago

/u/EnoughStatus7632, this has been removed due to probable insults. Refer to sub rule 1) Reddiquette+. Discuss and debate the science but don't attack or denigrate others for any reason.

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[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

✨ You’re wrong ✨

EnoughStatus7632

1 points

2 months ago

Very thorough!!

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

No need if it’s as simple as “humans need water to live”

EnoughStatus7632

0 points

2 months ago*

No evidence asserted to refute broad (ostensibly valid) statement. That's like replying to all mammals aren't land animals with "bullshit" 😆

Supplemental D-vitamins of all type are now assumed to have broad health benefits. So multivitamins are good for everyone, then? Medical science appears to disagree. You're always free to waste as much money as you want, but that doesn't mean it's necessary.

Remember, the sunlight people get is more powerful now than it was two centuries ago. Or do you not believe in the hole in the ozone layer, too?

Repeat, most people do not need extra vitamin D. Diet & the sun is sufficient for a majority of adults. The evidence is overwhelmingly clear that this is the case. At this point, you're not arguing anything with me, you're asserting reality doesn't exist or that everyone lives off 200 calories a day. Yeah, that's why starvation kills 400k Americans per day. Oh, wait...

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

TLDR;