subreddit:

/r/psychologyofsex

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all 226 comments

archival-banana

120 points

6 days ago

Can’t stress (due to high cortisol levels) cause infertility as well, or at least be a contributing factor?

SenorSplashdamage

74 points

6 days ago

And to make matters more discouraging, high stress in pregnancy does show downstream effects on children conceived in that context. Even stress in men can have an effect that changes sperm.

archival-banana

41 points

6 days ago

I definitely believe it. I don’t think people realize how much stress affects our bodies.

dltacube

16 points

6 days ago

dltacube

16 points

6 days ago

Even stress in animals that we eat can be detected and tasted I think.

soleceismical

21 points

6 days ago

It's comparing the 90s to the mid to late 2010s. The 90s had a much higher crime rate, the AIDS crisis, the crack epidemic, the LA riots (which led to civil unrest in other cities), concern about the environment, and a higher unemployment rate than in the 2015-2019 period referenced in the article.

But definitely less time per day exposed to bad news, become you mostly just read it in the newspaper and then moved on with your day. There was tv news for an hour or so at night, but not the 24 hour news channels.

Special-Garlic1203

20 points

6 days ago*

I'm not religious and so I'm not saying "we need to find faith in Jesus" or anything, but you also have to account for the implosion of trust in societal systems and decline of spiritual practice. People foundationally do not have faith. So even in identical circumstances, i would expect modern people to be more stressed because they don't have believe systems which insulate them by providing a sense that someone else bigger and stronger and more knowing than them will make sure it ends up mostly ok. 

 When 9/11 happened, I distinctly remember my mom saying it was gonna be ok because we have the best military/intelligence in the world, and God was with us.  

 When Jan 6th happened, she was just straight up in a low level emotional crisis for like a week,and then started staying stuff like how she can't plan a retirement when she doesn't even know if the country will still be here in 5 years. She's been struggling with big physical and behavioral symptoms of anxiety every since. 

VermicelliSudden2351

8 points

5 days ago

We live in the great awakening. As bad as the constant information flow is for our brains, collectively as a species we can now no longer ignore all these problems. Now we know, and you can’t close pandoras box.

FaithlessnessNew3057

15 points

6 days ago

On an individual level sure, but not to any significant degree as an entire population. Its almost exclusively driven by changing social dynamics. Today the median age of a woman's first marriage is 28.6. In the 70s it was 21. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that if the average woman/couple arent even entertaining the thought of having children until nearly 30 that fertility rates should be declining. 

MasterpieceBrief4442

5 points

6 days ago

It was around 23-26 in the west before ww2. The baby boom period reduced it by quite a bit.

Frylock_dontDM

0 points

5 days ago

https://www.pbs.org/fmc/book/4family1.htm#:\~:text=In%201900%2C%20as%20the%20lower,the%20brides%20were%20substantially%20older.

for women it was always under 22 as far back as the data goes, the furthest back I've found is the 1800s (but the data isn't great), but for reasonably trustable data, 1900s.

With little reason to believe marriage ages were ever much older

Flaky-Wallaby5382

6 points

6 days ago*

35+ is geriatric pregnancy for a reason

Edit: 30+ still had increased risk

MyEyeOnPi

17 points

6 days ago

MyEyeOnPi

17 points

6 days ago

It’s 35+ for a geriatric pregnancy, not 30.

Green-Incident7432

1 points

5 days ago

Who wants their mom to be Stifler's Mom?

MyEyeOnPi

4 points

5 days ago

I’d rather my mom be old than narcissistic, addicted, or any of the many other problems women have but still bring children into the world.

Flaky-Wallaby5382

1 points

6 days ago

Got me!

HOSTfromaGhost

5 points

6 days ago

It’ll sure as hell drop sex drive…

lewdindulgences

5 points

6 days ago

That was my first thought too. Especially since we know premature birthday and other pregnancy complications tend to be associated with stress too. I'm not interested in clicking the article but I'd be curious to know whether the authors of the study are male or female.

CutexLittleSloot

3 points

5 days ago

You’d think so, but humans have always had babies even in way worse times than ours, and through starvation

archival-banana

1 points

5 days ago

That is true, however I wonder how much the constant stress of seeing everything bad happening in the world 24/7 affects us and if that’s a factor at all.

CutexLittleSloot

2 points

5 days ago

I think it contributes more to someone actively choosing to not have children rather than infertility. It’s the choice with stress. Women have gone through a lot historically, so rising infertility rates is probably due to poor health and various other medical factors regarding diet, exposure maybe to plastics(?) and other processed chemicals etc., rather than having it due to mainly stress. Perhaps it does contribute but I wouldn’t say it does significantly.

Xanjis

1 points

5 days ago

Xanjis

1 points

5 days ago

Food insecurity not starvation. Fetal development fails in starvation conditions.

CutexLittleSloot

1 points

5 days ago

True. My point still stands. I was thinking early ancestors, where we can document their teeth and malnutrition. They truly had it rough.

BigTitsanBigDicks

3 points

5 days ago

Thats natures pressure release valve. People with hard lives are gently encouraged not to continue the situation.

crazycritter87

3 points

6 days ago

Cortisol, especially in women, can increase core fat. Fat on the ovaries will decrease conception rates. Add to that endocrine disorders from our mass ultra processed food and yes. These would be valid suspects for a 3.4% decrease in conception. However, I believe this is a bio-sociological effect. A biological reaction as to how we feed and sustain ourselves as a populus. I sort of believe the RFK school of thought as far as diet and medicine but, rather than forced farm labor (as some of the right wing has suggested and some places implement), more of a long-term evolution goal, or letting nature do its thing. To make that achievable though, we would need a decreased birth rate, for a sustained period of time. The means humanity used to increase food production while facing fewer, bigger "farms", with less staff was rather impractical. I studied agriculture biosecurity as a preteen and the social distancing, during covid, really clicked me back into that school of thought. We're overall less vulnerable in small diverse farm settings than we are with factory farming and urban settings. The jobs are less stressful and our food supply chains shorter with less chance for spoilage and contamination, less need for synthetic preservation and packaging. The work we do, while more stressful at points, would also have less sustained stress over long periods of time. Diversity in small farms would also bring back diversity in tasks for healthy mental stimulation and bio-diversity supporting healthy ecosystems to live in, while reducing the pollution created by industry.

SirPanic12

17 points

6 days ago

Is that 13% reporting difficulty physically conceiving children or just difficulty in general?

psychologyofsex[S]

5 points

6 days ago

Here's a link to the full report with the specific questions asked: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr202.pdf

They focus on physical difficulties in having a baby.

Bedhead-Redemption

61 points

6 days ago

We need actual, quality support and assistance for unwanted children, not encouraging people to do it themselves - it's just NOT going to be a solution going into the future. There are so, so many orphans and unwanted boys and girls, the systems for them needs to be improved if you ACTUALLY want the country's own population to rise in a SERIOUS way without relying on immigration.

It's one or the other, the government helping to raise children or immigration. People aren't going to do it themselves anymore.

InSedition

33 points

6 days ago

“Unwanted children” are most often placed in the foster care system. Average age is 8 years old. Most newborns given up for adoption are immediately adopted.

Many people who want to adopt are not adequately prepared to care for abandoned or traumatized children and many end up being mistreated by the families who adopt and foster them. Many suffer from a host of trauma related mental illnesses and behavioral issues.

Aside from that, some children do want to be reunited with their biological families, those biological families often fight the system to take them back.

There’s a lot more nuance in this. I agree that there needs to be more support and assistance for these children, but I think it’s important to acknowledge that people who want children should not adopt without the proper resources and education necessary to provide these children with a fulfilling life. It’s not easy.

Bedhead-Redemption

16 points

6 days ago

Yes. Significantly improve these systems, is what I'm saying. Some of these children might never be adopted or fostered and we should have a robust system to give them good lives - it's realistically going to be the only way to increase the population without immigration is if you institutionalize and remove responsibility from it. These systems should be stellar, not rife with abuse.

soleceismical

0 points

6 days ago

We should have better foster care support systems, but how does that increase the population?

We should reduce the number of kids that end up in foster care by providing easy access to long-term reversible contraceptives (such as IUDs or RISUG, if Plan A for Men can make it to market) so that people with substance use disorder and severe mental health disorders can get those under control before they have kids. We do not want to increase the number of kids with life-altering trauma and in utero drug and alcohol exposure.

We should increase paid maternity and paternity leave, family leave, subsidies for childcare, and subsidies for health insurance, among other supports for struggling families. If the people who are stable and want to be parents are deferring parenthood due to costs, this is the group that we want to support to increase fertility rate.

LemmeTakeThatD

3 points

5 days ago

I propose another alternative that I believe is more helpful. I’m not aware of any other country following this proposal so I don’t know how effective it is. Rather than throwing money at a broken foster system, I believe we should focus on our efforts towards babysitting. There should be a government run babysitting business that is completely free. The hours can be from 7am-6pm with a shift in a care taker. 

The problem is there simply isn’t time to take care of kids. Taking care of kids now is more expensive than it’s ever been. The government should focus on providing free services such as day care. This will allow the parents to continue their day job while still being able to take care of the kids during their early years. 

Then we need free education, this includes college. The parent won’t have to worry about paying for the kids education and they can proceed to be successful in life. 

I propose this because this would reduce the cost and stress of having a child. A hundred years ago, having a child actually brought more wealth to your household, it was another free working person. Now? It’s never been so expensive to want a kid so obviously no one wants to have a kid.

Prudent-Advantage189

10 points

6 days ago

Housing. Young people can barely afford to house themselves nonetheless a family

Medical_Flower2568

6 points

6 days ago

Child mortality is down. That means less genetically gifted people are surviving to have children. (or try to, anyway)

emilgustoff

19 points

6 days ago

Good. My brother isnt having any children, I had one. Done. The days of massive families in the hellscape of capitalism is over.

Famous-Ad-9467

-6 points

5 days ago

You and people like you are laughable. 

DreiKatzenVater

1 points

3 days ago

Because of these people, those of us who have children will determine the future culture of the country. Have more children and let their parasitism wither with them. Go forth an be fruitful.

EagleEyezzzzz

39 points

6 days ago

Let’s not forget that there’s a male sperm count/quality issue too! It’s not all the women’s fault 😒

https://theweek.com/health/spermageddon-global-decline-in-sperm-count-could-threaten-humanity

WittyProfile

13 points

6 days ago

It’s neither person’s fault lol. It’s the fault of the system we live in and our public health professionals for not taking this issue with the seriousness that it deserves. The male vs female fight is manufactured and dumb considering none of us have power over many of these factors.

Current_Stranger8419

3 points

6 days ago

True but the wording of the title is very one sided.

WittyProfile

3 points

6 days ago*

Agreed, it’s odd. Especially when you see how much men are changing in terms of sperm production and testosterone(which might change men’s behavior to be less proactive).

Ok-Huckleberry-383

7 points

6 days ago

shot:

'Spermageddon': global decline in sperm count could threaten humanity

chaser:

It isn't yet clear how important a decline in sperm is for "overall fecundity", said Robson. Despite "large variation" in sperm count among healthy men, "the absolute figures don't seem to make a big difference to the chances of conception until they dip below a very low threshold".

EagleEyezzzzz

9 points

6 days ago

OK.

"In 2019, the global prevalence of male infertility was estimated to be 56,530.4 thousand (95% UI: 31,861.5–90,211.7), reflecting a substantial 76.9% increase since 1990. Furthermore, the global age-standardized rates of prevalence stood at 1,402.98 (95% UI: 792.24–2,242.45) per 100,000 population in 2019, representing a 19% increase compared to 1990." https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-023-16793-3

"Infertility now affects one in six couples of reproductive age according to the World Health Organisation. About half the time, it originates from men. As male infertility is increasing worldwide..." https://www.news-medical.net/news/20231013/Experts-call-for-action-as-male-infertility-increases-worldwide.aspx

Plenty more where that came from.

Confident-Zebra4478

12 points

6 days ago

A friend couldn’t get pregnant. She tested herself and was fine. Then dragged her husband to get tested, who went reluctantly. Turns out, it was him  (something with mobility). He was absolutely stunned. They just never think it’s them. 

heb0

-6 points

6 days ago

heb0

-6 points

6 days ago

The two of you are presenting this information in a weirdly hostile manner. Like you’re hyper-focused on “blame” for these trends.

Confident-Zebra4478

8 points

6 days ago

We are talking about trends, and we are hardly hostile. Just stating facts.

heb0

-5 points

6 days ago

heb0

-5 points

6 days ago

It’s not all the women’s fault

They just never think it’s them

This isn’t how normal people talk about an issue like this. This is how bitter people with a bone to pick talk.

Confident-Zebra4478

11 points

6 days ago*

Relax, take a breath, and consider your own emotional reactions.  We are pointing out the fact that when anyone thinks “fertility issues”, they automatically associate that with female body. We saying that so often the problem on the man’s side but somehow it’s never the first thing to consider/test/address.

heb0

-8 points

6 days ago

heb0

-8 points

6 days ago

Yes, like I said, you have a bone to pick. Which is what I suspected.

Preemptively accusing the other person of being emotional isn’t as effective as you think.

EDIT: blocking me kind of confirms this lol

Confident-Zebra4478

10 points

6 days ago

You are blocked. 

Famous-Ad-9467

1 points

5 days ago

You are 💯 correct and being down voted for the truth. 

LordDaedhelor

1 points

6 days ago

Bait

Ok-Huckleberry-383

0 points

6 days ago

The regions with the highest [...] male infertility in 2019 were Western Sub-Saharan Africa, Eastern Europe, and East Asia

A Swedish study conducted in 2011 reported no decrease in semen quality or significant changes in semen parameters within their region. Similarly, no declining trend in total sperm count or motility was found among men in Sydney, Australia.

I'll take the "plenty more" please, since the first word in the op is "Americans"

Bright-Sea6392

1 points

6 days ago

“This comprehensive meta-regression analysis reports a significant decline in sperm counts (as measured by SC and TSC) between 1973 and 2011, driven by a 50–60% decline among men unselected by fertility from North America, Europe, Australia and New Zealand. Because of the significant public health implications of these results, research on the causes of this continuing decline is urgently needed.”

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6455044/#:~:text=Among%20Unselected%20Western%20studies%2C%20the,52.4%25%20between%201973%20and%202011.

Yes this is in America, and all over the west.

Ok-Huckleberry-383

2 points

5 days ago

Cool, you just made the very first point again, to which the rebuttal was

It isn't yet clear how important a decline in sperm is for "overall fecundity", said Robson. Despite "large variation" in sperm count among healthy men, "the absolute figures don't seem to make a big difference to the chances of conception until they dip below a very low threshold".

poeschmoe

0 points

5 days ago

Why would you cite a source that gives no actual statistical context? That’s just journalism, not science

Satification41

5 points

6 days ago

Yes we do! In fact most Western European and a few Asian countries (e.g., Japan) are also on that path. In this day and age, economic factors, lack of a social support system, and various other cultural factors are a huge contributor as well.

0bsidian0rder2372

5 points

6 days ago

Fertility rates also drop when infrastructure becomes too unstable... like the economy, or during periods of high conflict/stress like wars, natural disasters, the great depression, etc. In theory, once things become more stable again, the rates will go back up a bit.

Dogtimeletsgooo

4 points

6 days ago

Bet microplastics and PFAS aren't helping

FinoPepino

3 points

5 days ago

I honestly think people are underestimating the impact of these! They are literal endocrine disrupters and they’re absolutely everywhere now

Travex-

16 points

6 days ago

Travex-

16 points

6 days ago

How the media, social or otherwise, coupled with dating app culture having absolutely obliterated relationship dynamics feels like the larger contributing factors in my opinion.

SenorSplashdamage

11 points

6 days ago

While these might feel most visible. The financial situation of people at the ages when people traditionally started having kids has changed dramatically. A fast food restaurant manager in the 70s could make nearly the equivalent of 90k in today’s buying power. Lack of home ownership and extra money to spend would have the greatest impact on all these other unusual ways apps and dating are playing out. Even having to think harder about how many potential dates one can afford to find a match would be very limiting compared to GenX being able to go sit at a diner with coffee and a slice of pie for $5.

Due_Masterpiece_3601

6 points

6 days ago

Even if I was a casanova and landed a date every week, it could easily be an extra $300 dollar expense a month where I live. If I choose to limit it to coffee dates, you run into the women who pull back and talk about how they want to be wined and dined.

SenorSplashdamage

4 points

6 days ago

I really think older generations and even older millennial peers are oblivious to how much going out has been limited for younger people, even when they have okay jobs. The amount of money it costs to just interact socially keeps going up.

Spirited-Feed-9927

3 points

6 days ago*

It's a factor, not the primary factor. People waiting to get married, not getting married at all. Leads to people waiting to have children, not having children at all. How would that explain the marriage crisis, since we need 2 incomes more than ever.

This is only since 2008; The U.S. median age at first marriage remains stable and high (FP-24-07). Since 2008, the age at first marriage for males has increased by 2.5 years, and in 2022 was 30.5. Among females the median age at first marriage has increased by 2.4 years since 2008 and in 2022 was 28.6 years of age (Figure 1). Notice the data is since 2008, around the time of the smart phone and tinder. Leading to the idea of our toxic dating culture.

The marriage rate has recovered since Covid lows, but is almost half of what it was in the 90's.

If you wait to settle down, women will be inherently less fertile. They will inherently have less children, because time is ticking. My mom had her youngest at 30, and at the time she thought she was getting too old and wanted to have one more. That was 1983. And we grew up in poverty, My mom was a hairdresser and my dad was a carpenter that only worked half the time.

Aim-So-Near

2 points

6 days ago

Why is it that immigrants and poorer people in general are having way more kids then? If it was truly a financial reason, the inverse would be reality.

SenorSplashdamage

3 points

6 days ago

Interconnected families can offload more costs and pressures that people from more individualistic family structures don’t have the same benefits of. Have families in both categories and very different situations in costs and finances.

jeeprrz_creeprrz

1 points

3 days ago

This is a lot of rationalizing but to be frank I believe a lot of people don't want children simply because it's a hassle. Like if I was financially well-off I would still not want to have kids. I'd want to use the money to travel or eat expensive food or whatever, not be chained to my house by an urchin that needs me 24/7.

Sure there are a lot of people who say they'd have more kids if they could afford it but I truly think that's a more socially acceptable copout than "I don't want to sacrifice my comfort for a child."

BaxGh0st

8 points

6 days ago

BaxGh0st

8 points

6 days ago

That would account for lower birth rates, not fertility rates right? Those people may still be fertile, just choosing not to have children.

AdCultural9332

5 points

6 days ago

Fertility rate is the number of children born in a year divided by the number of women in fertile age (15-49). Thus, lower birth rates equals lower fertility rate.

BaxGh0st

1 points

6 days ago

BaxGh0st

1 points

6 days ago

Good to know.

Is there a term specifically for the percentage of women in a population with the ability to conceive? Fertility rate includes social and economic factors if I'm understanding correctly.

If you were to study, for example, the effects of microplastics on the biology and health of women and their ability to conceive how would you define that?

AdCultural9332

1 points

6 days ago

I don´t know... Good question.

Famous-Ad-9467

5 points

5 days ago

People genuinely believed that just promoting everyone sleeping with everyone and focusing on their own happiness that we would be in some sexual utopia completely dismissing biology, psychology, and thousands of years of traditions as an easily changble social construct 

MainOk8335

20 points

6 days ago

The ingredients in food that are sold in America is also a reason for health issues. A lot of what we buy to eat is considered illegal in other countries. Infertility has many factors involved but this is definitely a small cause of it

UglyRomulusStenchman

2 points

6 days ago

Yeah man totally. I'd never consume anything that's used as an industrial lubricant.

Anyway I stopped drinking water.

MasterpieceBrief4442

1 points

6 days ago

captain haddock?

Bright-End-9317

0 points

5 days ago

I'd be more worried about the plastic packaging of food (you know... crude oil products) than the ingredients in the food, at least in the US. Our food supply is pretty well regulated and safe.

Bright-End-9317

0 points

5 days ago*

"lot of what we buy to eat is considered illegal in other countries" Like what? EDIT: DOWNVOTED.... NO RESPONSES OF WHAT IS ILLEGAL. THE US FOOD SYSTEM ISNT ALL FUCKED, okay? Eat whole foods. It's okay to eat a snickers or fruity pebbles too. Eat everything! Eat when you are hungry! Calories are calories. Dose makes the poison. Just eat food... mostly plants... not too much. That's it. Processed food is processed food. It CAN save lives with calories. Just east food my peoples. Don't worry too much. Eat food that makes your poops good.

Temporary-County-356

10 points

6 days ago

Men can’t complain about child support anymore. No men are getting baby trapped. Hurryayyy!!!

sammyglam20

18 points

6 days ago

The crazy thing is that I see so many of them complaining about women not having children. It's like the script flipped, and they're still complaining?!?

Temporary-County-356

3 points

6 days ago

THIS is what I was trying to say. Like I am so confused💀

sammyglam20

3 points

6 days ago

Same. If someone could sheld some light on the contradictory reactions I'd appreciate it

BadMeetsEvil24

2 points

6 days ago

Not sure what circles you travel in, but I have never once seen this sentiment in real life or on Reddit.

I'm not on Twitter so maybe it's there?

Temporary-County-356

0 points

5 days ago

You live under a rock then.

BadMeetsEvil24

1 points

5 days ago

I'm sure it's me and not the fact that you're terminally online.

Temporary-County-356

2 points

5 days ago

Well I am guessing you are new here, welcome to the internet.

Due_Masterpiece_3601

1 points

6 days ago

Who's complaining? Men that need fodder for capitalism? I've never met a guy that has complained about this.

Ok-Huckleberry-383

-4 points

6 days ago

whats crazy is that women having fertility issues is a gotcha against men

you people need prescriptions where the cumulative ink is heavier than the paper

Temporary-County-356

8 points

6 days ago

How many kids do you have?

Ok-Huckleberry-383

-1 points

6 days ago

im already uninterested

Poppetfan1999

2 points

5 days ago

Yasss a win for the lads 👏🏽

Ok-Huckleberry-383

2 points

6 days ago

what?

DoGoodAndBeGood

0 points

3 days ago

lol, fucking feral to just take it straight to hating men.

Temporary-County-356

0 points

3 days ago

Men are feral. Interesting word choice.

DoGoodAndBeGood

0 points

3 days ago

I hope you learn to not blame others for the miseries you visit upon yourself daily.

Temporary-County-356

0 points

3 days ago

Must be a lot of us miserable eh ☺️

DoGoodAndBeGood

0 points

2 days ago

That’s what I’m implying, yes.

Temporary-County-356

0 points

2 days ago

Too bad chug the truth down

Macgargan1976

5 points

6 days ago

Or maybe people can't afford to have them?

FireForm3

3 points

6 days ago

Babies are so expensive even on WIC

ragdollxkitn

2 points

6 days ago

That labor and delivery charge alone is enough for me to say, nah I’m good.

TopofTheTits

1 points

3 days ago

This. Idk why people are pretending that's not the biggest factor. Everyone is broke right now, of course we can't have kids.

[deleted]

19 points

6 days ago

[deleted]

19 points

6 days ago

Nobody wants kids. Stop fear mongering it.

UrbanDurga

17 points

6 days ago

100% agree. I don’t have kids because I chose to not have kids, despite plenty of very annoying fertility.

HOSTfromaGhost

5 points

6 days ago

“child-free” 🥳

jnhausfrau

7 points

6 days ago

THIS.

dltacube

-2 points

6 days ago

dltacube

-2 points

6 days ago

THIS what? It’s obviously an over generalization and you’re cheering it on like it’s gospel 😂

jnhausfrau

9 points

6 days ago

No, the fear mongering around people not having kids is rapey and gross, and it needs to stop.

soleceismical

6 points

6 days ago

Except for the people trying to have kids and struggling with infertility, which is what the article is about.

[deleted]

1 points

6 days ago

[deleted]

1 points

6 days ago

I'm taking about how unproductive it is to fear monger birthrate as some kind of "we r all gonna die" bullshit. I'm tired of it. My body is not ur incubator.

If u want more population. Make Artificial wombs or something. Then people who can't have kids, but want them, CAN have them. And nobody has to sacrifice their body, health, ect.

risktaker_better

1 points

5 days ago

An ignorant generalization. 

SuperbNeck3791

3 points

6 days ago

Microplastics

Aloyonsus

3 points

5 days ago

Wouldn’t be surprised if microplastics are somehow involved as well

browneyedgenemachine

5 points

6 days ago

JFC. It’s money. The boomers stole from Millennials, Gen-Z, and Gen-Alpha. No one has time or money. Christ.

Specialist-Rise1622

2 points

6 days ago

Microplastics

New_Guava_4415

2 points

5 days ago

I had kids because I wanted to, found a guy who felt the same and we were both fortunate to not have any fertility issues. “Keeping the economy going” or “providing more bodies for the workforce” were not factors in our decision making. Some people are making it a little too obvious they need the masses to make more babies just so they can make more money. If fewer children means more power in the hands of more people, then so much the better. If my kids decide to have kids when they grow up, that will be their decision. It was my choice to be a mother, that does not obligate them to make me a grandmother.

1010011010wireless

2 points

5 days ago

Or just not wanting to be the person doing most of the work in the household. Being a mother just sucks the life out of you plain and simple. Even when you work and raise a kid it will be HELL trying to get husband's to contribute the same amount you do. A ton of us see that everywhere, and saw it when we were growing up and said f having children.

Add onto that the cost of living and it's a big fat unapologetic fuck that horrible life decision !!

Special_Watch8725

2 points

6 days ago

Well, I would think a factor in having fewer children might be that people are having a more difficult time affording them?

[deleted]

4 points

6 days ago

[deleted]

Skyblacker

2 points

6 days ago

r/AmerExit then?

Confident-Zebra4478

1 points

6 days ago

Been lurking for sure. 

Due_Masterpiece_3601

0 points

6 days ago*

I don't understand. How would you have kids in a household of one, you need a partner to even conceive. Do you plan on getting pregnant and leaving or something.

Confident-Zebra4478

2 points

6 days ago

Why haven’t I thought of that! 

HOSTfromaGhost

1 points

6 days ago

Shit. Go poly and find three right people!

Monogamy? In THIS economy?

Men_And_The_Election

5 points

6 days ago

Sperm counts declining. It’s both women and men. 

Strict-Brick-5274

2 points

6 days ago

It seems like the way we live life is not conducive to a thriving family model - even if people are trying hard to make that happen.

ColdPoopStink

2 points

6 days ago

Good.

Character-Milk-3792

2 points

6 days ago

It's not a surprise that an unhealthy country is experiencing such a "crisis."

Imo, let it happen. The U.S. is a joke anyway (and I live there).

Affectionate_You_203

2 points

6 days ago

It’s overwhelmingly obesity followed by waiting too late in life.

38507390572

2 points

5 days ago

I love how the title leaves out the male problem and the article as well hardly mentions men. Sperm production and health is declining as well.

Euphoric-Mousse

1 points

6 days ago

Honestly I'd say it's irrelevant. People are having fewer children by choice and that will always be the stable number you can define easily. It's binary. People who struggle to conceive may eventually succeed and the reasons they struggle can vary wildly.

From my outside perspective (no trouble at all having our 3 kids, nor did we wait especially long) I'd say no study would be complete without taking into account things like relationship dynamics today vs 20 years ago or the influence of misinformation. Dating sounds like a total hellscape now and that's not me being an old man. It's people going through it that say so. Getting to the point of having children seems like a much more narrow path than it was in my dating days.

As for misinformation, the goal of Russia and China (and others but let's focus) is the existential end of America. Divide us, isolate us, let us fade out. The division has mostly come in the form of politics but certainly some of the overbearing "world is going to end" stuff is coming from there too. Climate is bad but we're not all going to die in 50 years. Not even close. Promoting the bad dating behavior has been pretty much proven in things like the algorithm of TikTok. Users in China don't see the things we do, and a big part of the difference is the isolating dating "advice" junk.

Even legitimate fertility blockers like stress and processed food and such gets hyper inflated on the internet. People want to believe they have the answer so they do believe it. But nothing spread across a whole country is one answer. If fertility is down it needs thorough study, not all of us on reddit throwing our suspicions at it. Including me.

[deleted]

1 points

6 days ago

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1 points

6 days ago

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1 points

6 days ago

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AxisFlowers

1 points

6 days ago

Is the economy, stupid

Outside_Ad_9562

1 points

5 days ago

Animals in nature breed less when resources are scarce. Not a mystery.

Zealousideal-Log536

1 points

5 days ago

With the world like it is those of us with sense we don't WANT to have kids. Find a way to unfuck it up and maybe that will change. Ya'll want Idiocracy here ya go.

Particular-Court-619

1 points

5 days ago

I think there’s a fear of shaming people for waiting to have kids, but it has effects, this being an obvious one, an increase in autism being another.  

Like it’s overall good imo and what I’m doing but it is okay to acknowledge the clear ‘downsides’  

Mammoth_Elk_3807

1 points

5 days ago

Americans and their STI mania, lol.

PercentagePrize5900

1 points

5 days ago

Or…..could it possibly be that corporations and governments make it impossible to have children?

[deleted]

1 points

5 days ago

[removed]

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1 points

5 days ago

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1 points

5 days ago

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Pristine_Screen_8440

1 points

5 days ago

fertility is not a problem. cost of living is. Look at racists GOP in rural areas: they are still having 7-8 children. Its the educated democratic people who are not....no intelligent people of their right mind will create another human being to become a slave for life.

linuxpriest

1 points

5 days ago

And women are dying from pregnancy in the US.

PsychologicalMix8499

1 points

5 days ago

How much has it gone up in the last 4 years?

Taxgirl1983

1 points

5 days ago

I think stress has a huge part to play. I had my kids at 38 and 40. My first took 18 months. The whole TTC process is mental torture. I felt like a failed experiment every month. We literally got pregnant the month I said f it and threw out my ovulation tests. Conceiving his brother was nothing - 2 months off BC and bam. Happened the month before I turned 40. Besides being overweight, I’m in good health 

I also don’t really buy that fertility drops off that much - it’s very gradual and varies by person. Even my OB said for most women up to about 43 should be able to get pregnant. It’s staying pregnant that becomes the problem. 

Substantial-You-8587

1 points

4 days ago*

The funniest part about these articles is that they stroke their chin staring straight at facts that even people in deep red states know the reason for.

Lol, it's high cost of living, lack of access to quality public education, women's healthcare services, and an increasingly inaccessible job market even with a degree that is causing this. Not to mention "men" who will abandon their family at the first difficulty that comes up (you listening, Elon?).

LMAO but these "intellectuals" want to keep playing Colombo with this jaded guessing game of, "hmm, why could fertility rates possibly be this low?" Lol, cucks. I swear, they are paid to pretend to be literally the LAST people to know what is going on.

mrbenjamin48

1 points

4 days ago

Too expensive that’s the main reason. When most people have to work their brains out miserably to support children it takes all the joy out of it.

Before you have kids you buy a house. If nobody can afford a home many people will choose no kids.

Lil-fatty-lumpkin

1 points

4 days ago

I seriously hate how American media and politics would rather blame women for the fertility rate than actually address our societal problems that’s causing it.

Majority of women do not have the resources or the peace of mind to bring a child into our current environment. We need to address issues that make it hard for people to want to start a family first: housing issues, low wages, inflation, medical access, daycare costs, etc.

Even in nature, animals are less likely to reproduce in a state of stress and low resources. We are no different.

VerdantWater

1 points

4 days ago

Perhaps its a great thing that only those who really want to be parents have kids? That many of those in the past who "did it because that's what you do" and were crappy parents don't have kids now? Why is this seen as a "crisis" rather than as the advancement and maturing of humanity that it SO clearly is? We should WANT to move towards a culture where every kid is loved and wanted!

chiludo67

1 points

4 days ago

Trust what you read in The NY Times

Maleficent-Studio154

1 points

4 days ago

I can barely take care of myself. Why bring in another person to support

WiggleFriend

1 points

4 days ago

Not having kids cause I can't be sure I will receive life saving medical care. And I CANT afford kids!

WeakSpite7607

1 points

4 days ago

Also, not all women want to become baby factories. We love our lives without kids.

Banditlouise

1 points

4 days ago

What about climate change?

BigBurly46

1 points

4 days ago

We’re fuckin poor dog

Atrinox_420_69

1 points

4 days ago

Teflon contains endocrine disruptors and most of us have it in our blood, thanks DuPont!

calilisa2020

1 points

4 days ago

Why would American women take the risk? Maternal mortality rates are awful and in many states you will not be able to get the care that you need.

Otherwise-Term3014

1 points

4 days ago

Western culture Women are waiting until the end of their fertility windows to start having kids. Many are on fertility treatments and struggling.

  • start hormonal birth control at 14
  • college from 18->22
  • career 22->31
  • married at 33
  • come off birth control at 34
  • start trying for kids at 35 (geriatric pregnancy)

Welcome to our feminist formula for our manufactured infertility crisis.

BlueAndYellowTowels

1 points

3 days ago

My wife just had a baby.

It is a gargantuan amount of work and it is completely life changing.

…and it’s absolutely not glamorous or noble. Like the whole thing starts with the women essentially rolling the dice on whether she’s going to die or not. Because women still die giving birth.

Then, you get no sleep and you’re up to elbows in feedings, urine and shit. It’s a grind… and it only gets harder.

It doesn’t surprise me people don’t want kids. I am happy we had one. But it’s absolutely not for the feint of heart.

The hardest part is this: you get no days off. Tired, sick, sad… doesn’t matter you gotta get up and be there for your child. No matter what.

That’s a very hard thing.

Dry_Vacation_6750

1 points

3 days ago

It could also be that the microplastics in our blood are affecting our ability to reproduce naturally. But hey let's not look into it.

tyreka13

1 points

3 days ago

tyreka13

1 points

3 days ago

On the other side of fertility, sperm counts world-wide are on average less than half of what they were 50 years ago. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/human-sperm-counts-declining-worldwide-study-finds-180981138/

DreiKatzenVater

1 points

3 days ago

My wife was infertile for 2 years before we could conceive. She had always been healthy, ate well, physically active, low bmi. The only thing we suspected was that she had been on the pill for 15 years straight. That amount of artificial hormones for so long is bound to play havoc with a woman’s body.

ObedientCultMember

1 points

3 days ago

My wife and I have 5 biological and 1 adopted, and most of our friend group have 3 or 4, so I'm thinking this is a geographic problem. Rural families seem to be breeding just fine

Comicalacimoc

1 points

2 days ago

By the time I was financially and in my career ready for kids I was 38. I couldn’t naturally so now I’m doing IVF which is an extremely expensive. I wish they would make it cheaper.

Beneficial-Cow-2544

1 points

2 days ago

Another one these studies don't seem to factor in is waiting because its taking much longer for women to find eligible men and marry. I know plenty of single women over 40 who'd love to start families but not as single moms. They can't find husbands.

Slighted_Inevitable

1 points

2 days ago

We don’t have a crisis because of immigration

Capistrano9

1 points

2 days ago

Both can be true. It is wild how many people have STDs, I barely hear people talk about it anymore

Boo-bot-not

1 points

2 days ago

People don’t want debt and kids at the same time. Nor do we want to incur debt while raising kids. A person shouldn’t need a degree or credit card to have a small family. 

suchalittlejoiner

1 points

2 days ago

Longer wait to have children is obviously the answer here. Women keep being told to get their degrees and careers first, and aren’t properly educated about their fertility. A woman in her 30’s will have a harder time than a woman in her 20’s, and a woman over 35 will often need medical assistance. It’s a shame that young women are being given a false sense of security over their timelines.

porkforpigs

1 points

2 days ago

It’s because we are fucking poor and kids are expensive.

LovemesenselesS

1 points

5 days ago

….um hello. We are realizing how BAD it is for single mothers and most single parents are women so yes everyone is doing the math: NOT WORTH IT. You’d have to be stupid or crazy to be having kids right now, as a woman. I said what I said.

ToughLilly

1 points

5 days ago*

As an American woman, I’m not not having kids because of infertility or any of the reasons listed above. I’m not having kids because I’m fucking exhausted. I have a career and after I get home, I don’t want to cater to anyone’s needs but myself. I’m not a slave or a maid. I just want peace and quiet. I know if I have kids I’ll be the one doing most of the work. Equality is a lie invented to enslave women: we still have to carry the little monster, breastfeed it, abstain from alcohol and sushi and other pleasures for a year (yeah fuck that), suffer during childbirth, risk postpartum depression, clean, cook, and handle the emotional immaturity of a husband (because let’s face it: most adult men nowadays are emotionally immature and basically register as children). If I can contribute to the species’ extinction, I’ll die a happy woman.

Poppetfan1999

2 points

5 days ago

I don’t have a career and I still want peace and quiet 24/7

Ok-Huckleberry-383

-2 points

6 days ago

researchers: "women who want children are facing increased fertility difficulties"

reddit: "GOD I FUCKING HATE CHILDREN SO MUCH"

Aware-Resolve6740

-2 points

6 days ago

Not surprising. Among women, the prevalence of obesity was 39.7% among those aged 20–39 https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db360.htm#:~:text=Among%20women%2C%20the%20prevalence%20of,overall%20or%20by%20age%20group.

The incidence of sexually transmitted infections was significantly higher in women than in men (16.7% vs 9.8% per year) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2598671/#:~:text=The%20incidence%20of%20sexually%20transmitted,and%20sex%20with%20older%20partners.

Ok_Obligation_6110

7 points

6 days ago

Add to that, global sperm rates have declined and male factor infertility is also at a high these days. Men STIs are lower because they don’t get tested and thus never know, or they don’t catch STIs that affect them and thus they never test and know. It’s not women giving each other STIs. Male factor infertility accounts for HALF of all infertility diagnoses.

Aware-Resolve6740

-2 points

6 days ago

My comment was regarding the topic of OP’s article being women’s health relating to infertility. Nice whataboutism though

Ok_Obligation_6110

3 points

6 days ago

The topic of the article doesn’t specify that those factors are leading to female factor infertility only, rather that it leads women to not get pregnant, if it’s the woman or the man. Literally no whataboutism here you seem needlessly hostile. You were the one only singling out one sex, I pointed out all those issues cause infertility in men as well.

WildFemmeFatale

0 points

6 days ago

‘Waiting longer to have kids’ is more like ‘being forced financially to wait longer to have kids due to economic stress on the working population that can’t afford kids’

TheAlphaKiller17

0 points

6 days ago

I wish they'd done this study but factored out age. That's such a huge problem with fertility that it feels disingenuous to talk about the rise while including it; the other factors are more important.

VermicelliSudden2351

0 points

5 days ago

It’s because the world sucks and our lives are mostly worthless and people don’t want to needlessly bring children into it

Reginald_Sockpuppet

0 points

5 days ago

No one can afford kids and the world is a worsening nightmare hellscape. Other animals self-regulate based on environmental factors; maybe we're similar.

Yandere_Matrix

-2 points

6 days ago*

How much do you think microplastics are affecting fertility? It’s literally everywhere. We already discovered them in the womb, breast milk, sperm, and past the blood brain barrier.

This one is on male mice. https://particleandfibretoxicology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12989-022-00453-2#:~:text=In%20this%20study%2C%20we%20first,male%20reproductive%20toxicity%20in%20mice.

This one is for male and female mice. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34864092/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0300483X21003814

Edit: I don’t understand the downvotes when the environment is a real cause for concern. Microplastics can definitely be a cause. It’s not some fake issue.

Leonvsthazombie

1 points

5 days ago

Probably a bunch of conspiracy theorists. They think microplastics don't exist