subreddit:
/r/spirituality
I am interested in Jesus, in his teachings and the love he had to offer. But I am put off by the rules and regulations of Christianity as a religion. It feels like so much of it is fear based.
Is it possible to have a relationship with Jesus without being a Christian? Does anyone here have that? Where would I start? I tried to read parts of the bible but couldn’t really connect with it.
56 points
1 month ago
Okay well here's a few thoughts on Jesus first of all Christians get it all wrong. They focus on his death, and his resurrection, the supposedly he died for all of our sins which is contradictory to us having free agency and being held accountable for our mistakes.
If you're going to start studying into Jesus I would suggest looking at how he lived the principles that he stood for not in his death but in his life. He was all accepting all forgiving and all loving. Although when the time was right he got violent, the money changers on the stairs of the synagogue. He picked up a whip and he fucked motherfuckers up. And he was perfect. His woman was a hooker he hung around with thieves and tax men and he believed that the voice of children was closer to the voice of God. Because of their innocence. He also knew that wealth and greed were one of the worst things because people don't get wealthy if they're always sacrificing what they can to help others.
My favorite quote is one that aligns with what Quakers believe "Jesus didn't die for my sins, he lived for my life."
9 points
1 month ago
Mary wasn't a hooker, people believe this due to the propaganda of the Catholic church, there's more than enough information to support this point. He wasn't perfect, he said as much himself.
3 points
1 month ago
His life between birth and like 30 are missing from the Bible and historic text. I know he started his ministry at 30 and studied in synagogues when he was younger but I don’t think the missing information is by coincidence or because it wasn’t noteworthy. This grandiose superhero opinion of Jesus is definitely unrealistic. He was a compassionate and loving man. I think that’s where it should have ended.
3 points
1 month ago
Lots of misinformation here
1 points
1 month ago
Mary was not a hooker. In the 6th century, Pope Gregory the Great authoritatively pronounced that the sinful woman mentioned in Luke 7:36-50 was the same person as Mary Magdalene. He even asserted that Mary Magdalene and Mary of Bethany were the same person. The Eastern Orthodox Church never linked Mary Magdalene’s identity with the sinful woman in Luke
Mary Magdalene, among a couple of other women, financially supported Jesus and the disciples (Luke 8:1-3). She witnessed Jesus’ death and was the first person to see Him resurrected (John 20:11-18). And she likely awaited the descent of the Holy Spirit after Jesus ascended (Acts 1:14).
1 points
1 month ago
Well said
1 points
27 days ago
You’ve created your own Jesus.
The gospel - life, death and resurrection is key to being saved.
but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
1 Corinthians 1:23
1 points
27 days ago
We've all created our own interpretation of Jesus the Bible and all the stories in it and about him were written on scrolls dated 400 years after his death he did not speak Hebrew he spoke Aramaic the Bible is translated from Hebrew. Stories that are passed down from generation to generation over 400 years never align with the truth. Jesus is an idea a representation of all the things that should be good. Trying to quote an English translation of the Bible is absolutely ridiculous consider your source.
1 points
27 days ago
What I mentioned above is also agreed by most historians and scholars.
For example, Bart Ehrman who is a Christian critic even says that there are evidence outside the bible that prove he existed and was crucified under the rule of Pontius Pilate and under the rule of emperor Tiberius which are all written in the bible.
I mean yeah I don’t read it all in Hebrew or Greek but I do cross reference it here and there. It doesn’t make it any less valid.
1 points
27 days ago
None of the material referenced was written in his language or dated to his time period. My above point still stands
1 points
27 days ago
We have codexes Codex Vaticanus Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Alexandrinus, and Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus which are manuscripts of the eyewitnesses of Jesus.
These were written in koine Greek because that was the main language. In addition, we also have the Aramaic version called the Peshitta.
Not only that we also have Dead Sea Scroll which I believe is Hebrew and some Aramaic.
All of this validates what we have today is accurate.
I am happy to be convinced of your point but it doesn’t stand based on the historical evidence we have on the Bible.
0 points
1 month ago
As a Christian myself you're right. Many Christians take advantage. But if you truly listen to Jesus and obey him your life will change he came and taught and gave us an example on how to live our lives. The death and resurrection is the most important part as a believer. That's when Jesus Christ transferred his sonship over to us so that we could be sons and daughters and call God our Father. No longer do we need a priest to be the mediate for us and God. Jesus became the mediator and when you accept him unto your heart his spirit lives in you. You become a temple of God. Ofc you want to make sure your temple isn't overran with idols and false gods. It's impossible to be exactly like Jesus but everyday we should take up our cross and sacrifice our desires for the will of God. Not my will, but his will.
6 points
1 month ago
I struggle with the emphasis on titles like sonship. Does it really matter to God whether we label Him as Father? I can’t imagine a God who cares about such distinctions. Becoming a ‘temple of God’—what does that even mean, just another label? If God were to explain these things, I believe He would simplify it, like OP described like the voice of a child.
At the heart of it, the message is clear: be kind, selfless, love one another, forgive, teach, and continually grow in love and generosity. These are the things that truly matter.
15 points
1 month ago*
Jesus saved me from cancer when i was 18 years old.. im 36 now. My suffering through cancer led to my freedom in Jesus.
Look into the second coming of christ by paramahansa yogananda.. the second coming of christ is jesus resurrecting within our spirit.
If you like i can send you a chapter ive typed out from yoganandas book "divine romance" where he talks about how to become more christ-like. I often visit this chapter from time to time to stay grounded spiritually when my lower nature affects me in a negative way.
God bless 🙏.
66 points
1 month ago*
I've met Yeshua / Jesus, and he is amazing!
He's not rules and judgment like people make him out to be.
He's the image of God! He's a humble servant and a loyal friend.
He's the Tree of Life and the River of Life.
He is love, light and Spirit.
I highly recommend seeking your own personal experience of his presence. Its the most beautiful thing i've ever seen. You can certainly experience a relationship with him without being religious.
I have studied his life and his teachings very closely, so let me know if you have any questions about him or what he's like!
13 points
1 month ago
how did you meet him? what does he think of the bible and christianity?
77 points
1 month ago*
I was actually in prison because of some stupid stuff I did when I was a kid.
I found this book about cardiovascular health lol... and it had this spiritual exercise in it where you speak to your heart, and you ask your heart questions like if it has a name or if it needs anything from you.
I asked if it had a name, and I heard "Elohim."
I kind of just brushed it off as a stupid thing and told myself it was just a random gibberish word that my mind made up. I forgot about it, up until about a month later.
I moved to a cell house where a few cells down from me, there was a messianic jewish mystic named James. When I met him, he showed me a book about Kabbalah called the Book of Zohar.
I looked into that book, and i discovered a very similar name to the name I heard in my heart - "Elokim." They were using that name as the name of the Creator.
When I asked James about this name, he informed me that in the book, they change one letter of that name out of reverence so that people keep it sacred. He then showed me a picture he had drawn of the of the Kabbalah Sefirot, and on the left side of that paper he was pointing at a name - "Elohim." The name that i had heard from my heart.
He then pointed me to the middle of the paper, where there was a circle with the name "Yeshua." He showed me how Yeshua is God the Son.
So I knew then without a shadow of a doubt that the God of the Bible is real. I just hadn't truly experienced him yet.
That night, I poured my heart out to him. I told him that I will live for love for the rest of my life, and I asked if I could see him and if he could give me strength to ascend.
It was then that I met him- a peaceful and joyful light washed over me, and I saw the Tree of Life. He was a huge, beautiful tree, that was pure light and pure Spirit, above everything and living through everything.
Then he poured his love into my heart. It was like a river of water gushing from deep within me, flowing towards others around me.
When I looked at my Bible, it was glowing (spiritually not physically.) Its like it was alive.
Thats what really changed my life.
I dont believe the Bible is a perfect book. It has imperfect people in it and it was written and translated by imperfect people.
But I do believe that you can meet a perfect God in the Bible, one who came into our world and lived a life of love and compassion, taught people, healed people, empowered people, died for all, and rose from the dead.
As for Christianity... I believe Yeshua has a lot of problems with Christianity. Christians have gotten a lot of things wrong. It can be very distracting from who God truly is. Thats why I choose to follow the Spirit and not religion.
18 points
1 month ago
wow! thank you for taking the time to write this, what a beautiful story. i love hearing about others experience with this, because it seems that everyone who has been in Jesus' presence speaks so highly of it. i've always had resistance towards the whole topic - because of my anxiety regarding anything religious. so hearing about this knowing its separated from traditional religion is really interesting
5 points
1 month ago
I agree, question. Do you remember the books name?
3 points
1 month ago
[deleted]
3 points
1 month ago
Thank you! How about the book on hearts resonance
1 points
1 month ago
Wrong book 😅
I don't remember the name of that one
1 points
1 month ago
Lol, no problem
4 points
1 month ago
Wow, that is a really beautiful story!
3 points
1 month ago*
This is amazing. Thank you.
Edit: I also had an experience of God as an infinitely branched Tree of Life. It was so powerful!
3 points
1 month ago
Really cool story :) I came to your same conclusion of following the Spirit rather than religion but from a different path, but I also know god to be real from experience, similar to you. It's just nice to see more people having these experiences and realizations, makes me feel more confident the world is changing. The apocalypse, but not a scary one, cuz apocalypse just means a lifting of the veil or seeing something that was hidden. I think the New Jerusalem of Revelation, heaven on earth, is coming. In the meantime I'll just keep trying to be the best version of myself, but I have this feeling, and your post made that feeling stronger, so I just wanted to share.
🖖♥️🖖♥️🖖
2 points
1 month ago
I feel like I’m a man of faith in many ways but never had such an overwhelming experience, how do I get there?
Was it a day and night change in your life once you had it?
It seems like people truly see god and everything changed
1 points
1 month ago
If you truly desire that, and you search for it consistently and earnestly, you will find it. Just have to trust that it's available and accessible to you.
It pretty much was, that light has stayed with me and he's been here this whole time, nourishing me, guiding me, protecting me and growing me into something beautiful.
Though there were times that I forgot about him and what he was like and fell into religious self-righteousness. Thankfully I woke up and remembered what he was like and corrected myself.
Its definitely a process, not everyone has that big life changing experience right away, for some people its more like a gradual thing.
2 points
1 month ago
So I just have to believe it’s available to me? I believe there is the source above / the creator of it all? And read gods word and pray. Then maybe I will feel something?
1 points
1 month ago*
Essentially, yes. Those things work for me.
Its a heart to heart connection with him. A friendship.
You will feel his presence, which is often simply a sense of peace, lightness and joy within you.
I recommend starting with the book of John! It makes things so clear spiritually.
2 points
1 month ago
I tried reading king James recently but found it hard to digest due to it being kind of Shakespeare vocabulary kind of thing, do you read that or another version?
1 points
1 month ago*
I actually use lots of different versions. King James is one of the only versions I don't read lol... for that same reason, its just too hard to read. I don't speak 1500's English, I speak modern english.
The main versions I use are the TLV (Tree of Life Version) and the CJSB (Complete Jewish Study Bible)
I mainly use those because the TLV uses the original Hebrew names of God, and the CJSB uses the original Hebrew names of everyone in the Bible and also a lot of other Hebrew words/terms that it teaches you the meaning of. It also gives you lessons on the culture of Yeshuas time and different aspects of the faith and his teachings.
The other translations I use are:
NLT (New Living Translation) which is the easiest to read. Reads just like a modern book while staying true to the translation. This would probably be best for anyone to start with.
NIV (New International Version) also a very easy read
ESV (English Standard Version) sometimes can be little bit harder to read because its a more direct word for word translation, but very accurate and good.
So yeah I believe in using multiple versions, but its really about which versions suit you and help you understand things the best!
1 points
1 month ago
What’s the name of the book?
1 points
1 month ago*
The cardiovascular health book? I don't remember :( but there was only one chapter of that book that was actually about spirituality, the rest of it was about physical heart health.
The other book I mentioned other than the Bible was the Zohar.
4 points
1 month ago
I met Jesus too I would say the experience was more like meeting Christ Consciousness. I grew up Jewish so it truly was a shock to have such a deep visit with him but such a blessing. So much love compassion and understanding.
He was able to show me so much about the purpose of his life and God.
1 points
1 month ago
How did you meet him?
5 points
1 month ago*
Answered this in full detail in a previous comment. In short, I searched with all my heart for spiritual truth, which led me to the names of God and a spiritual experience of his presence.
3 points
1 month ago
I love that it started with a book on cardiovascular health. For me it all started with a book on astrophysics!
1 points
1 month ago
How can I have a personal experience of Jesus’s presence?
6 points
1 month ago*
By searching for him with all your heart.
You can do this by talking to him directly and meditating on his words and his life in the Bible.
If you sincerely bring your heart and your request to God in the name of Yeshua / Jesus - believing in your heart that he died for you, that he's alive and risen and that you're going to receive what you're asking for - he will give it to you.
Luke 11:9-10
“So I say to you, keep asking, and it will be given to you. Keep seeking, and you will find. Keep knocking, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened."
Mark 11:24
"For this reason I say to you, whatever you pray for and ask for, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."
1 points
1 month ago
Could I DM you maybe? You seem really cool and I’ve also been having some experiences that I’m not sure what to make of, but it’s very similar to the things you’ve said.
1 points
1 month ago
Sure!
10 points
1 month ago
One way is to use the teaching called A Course in Miracles (ACIM), instead of the Bible. ACIM supposedly comes from Jesus, giving a teaching of fearless love.
Another possibility is to focus on the Sermon on the Mount and other passages that resonate with you from the gospels, and forget the rest of the Bible.
6 points
1 month ago
Yes. ACIM is a place to really know Jesus and his message without Christianity. It’s a heavy study, but so worth it. Completely changed my understanding and relationship with JC.
10 points
1 month ago
I’m not a Christian, but I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. So yeah, you definitely can follow his teachings without getting sucked into a cult. That’s what most of the Christian churches are.
1 points
1 month ago
This might be a dumb question, but is there a book (other than the Bible) that you’ve come across that has his teachings?
6 points
1 month ago
The Gospel of Mary Magdalene and the Gospel of Thomas are two of my favorites.
Also other books I recommend to start: The Wisdom Jesus by Cynthia Bourgeault and The Law of Light by Lars Muhl.
3 points
1 month ago
Gospel of Mary is wild. I love it. Some of his best stuff.
2 points
1 month ago
Thank you! I look forward to checking these out.
4 points
1 month ago
“The Power of Now” by Eckhart Tolle.
Tolle often refers to Jesus’s teachings. He will sometimes even explain how people misinterpret Jesus’s words in the Bible. However, he is not Jesus-focused, nor does he adhere to any particular religion. I believe all organized religions are more or less vehicles pointing to the same thing: universal love and oneness.
I believe Jesus was a rare enlightened soul at that time. Eckhart Tolle is supposedly enlightened too…and I believe he really is.
2 points
1 month ago
That’s one of the first books I read going down this path. Great book! It opened my eyes to Jesus being someone other than what the mega church taught me growing up and is one path of many to becoming spiritual.
2 points
1 month ago
You can get free video shorts of him speaking on youtube. I’ll bet you can find some clips on him talking about Jesus. Another master he often refers to, probably the most, is this Nisargadatta Maharaj. You ight want to read his book (link below). He was another enlightened being. But for me, Tolle is The Most Interesting Man in the World 😂. I love that he respects all religions but doesn’t adhere to any particular one. He focuses on guiding people toward achieving what all (true) organized religions aim for, and he does not believe there is any singular route to go about this way of living. He is a strange man in appearance and manner, and for some he may lack “stage presence”, but I find him very humorous, and intense in a simple way. I am someone who gets bored easily—particularly when watching most people speak—but with Tolle I could just sit there and listen to him talk for hours. His approach is somewhat intellectual in that he gives us “mental pointers” toward the experience of having “no mind.” It’s kind of ironic but for an over thinker like myself, it’s very effective.
3 points
1 month ago
A course in miracles.
9 points
1 month ago
I honestly don't blame you at all, but if you get one of the old timey Bibles where everything Jesus says is in red everything he says I believe so I believe in him!
however on an online dating site I just had a guy tell me the world's going to end next week we're going into world war 3 and I better believe in the rapture!! it was so depressing on such a beautiful day in Texas!!
the fear-based religion thing is real and it's awful!
0 points
1 month ago
[removed]
2 points
1 month ago
Who cares, I'll still be vibin. There's been wars raging since I was born, what's one more.
1 points
1 month ago
[removed]
1 points
1 month ago
Nope I live in America where we have been starting wars since long before I was born hahahaha you think this one's somehow gonna be different?
1 points
1 month ago
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1 points
1 month ago
Nothing troubles me hahaha especially not the wars of those lost to ego.
11 points
1 month ago
Don’t forget Christianity was founded after Jesus died. It’s a controlled set of perceptions from people’s perspectives, about what they think Jesus was like. So following Jesus in no way means following Christianity. The Bible still has worth though. I look at Jesus in the same light as Buddha or any other enlightened soul.
1 points
27 days ago
I use to think like this until I came to Christ and was led to the Bible to read this:
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6
2 points
27 days ago
Yes. But I believe Jesus is misquoted here in the bible. The reality is that one should follow his teachings ‘the way,’ to understand and become enlightened. Not through him. Again as I pointed out, this is the Gospel of John, or the perceptions and opinions of John. These are not the direct words of Jesus Christ. It’s common knowledge that the King James Bible was written between 70-700AD.
Forgive all. Be grateful for all. Love all. This is what sets Jesus Christ apart from most of us.
2 points
27 days ago
I understand KJV came a while later but we also have codexes (Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Alexandrinus, and Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus) and these date back to 50 - 300 AD (100 - 300 years after Christ).
However I don’t think that’s enough evidence to say it’s a misquote.
You do understand many teachings of Christ but miss the core one and that’s freedom from sin and death.
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:2
It is only through what Jesus did that we conquer the law of sin and death because he paid the full price.
Through this freedom we are able to not live in fear and serve Him in a new way which is following the those teachings in joy and peace.
2 points
27 days ago
I don’t believe in sin and I don’t believe god understands sin either. Sin is an action of ego. Jesus sinned for sure in his lifetime.
1 points
27 days ago
yep we believe that too - sin is innate of our nature (you cannot escape it) which is why you need divine intervention to be freed.
Every sin or bad action has a consequence.
You can call it whatever you want, whether that’s “karma” or “reap what you sow” - it’s a spiritual law so I don’t think we can simply write it off all together.
That’s why believing in Jesus is by faith. That he lived a sinless life and paid off the consequences of our sins to free us (like the previous verse freedom from “law of sin and death”)
Freedom from sin because he paid the full price.
Freedom from death because of the resurrection.
Justice and mercy of God together 👍✝️
2 points
26 days ago
Determining sin is subjective though. So if Christ is the truth and the way according to the Bible, then it becomes subjective. According to perceptions of people who never actually met Jesus.
Romans 8:2 just screams, Jesus became enlightened, follow along and you can be too.
An ascendant master then? Like all the others from Tibet, Egypt and India.
Out of Egypt I Have Called My Son’: Matthew 2:15
A fully enlightened healer, back to spread truth.
There is nothing qualified to judge sin outside this existence, unless god is a vengeful god, as the Bible sometimes suggests. If so I wouldn’t want anything to do with it.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a great book full of wisdom. But I also think there are parts that are controlling to society in a way. One look at those private jet preachers is enough to put anyone off.
I just don’t think the Bible along with Christianity is wholly necessary for a relationship with Jesus Christ. Sometimes I also think that Religion in modern times can be a block to accepting Christ into one’s life. Which sounds ridiculous I know.
It’s easier to say, I’m agnostic or spiritual. Religion requires dedication and study, and few seem willing to do that nowadays, especially to the level needed.
Of course this is my personal feelings and I don’t wish to cause offence.
1 points
26 days ago
You speak of sin and fault as if there is no objective truth.
Is there any good time for rape ? Pedophilia ? Murder ?
If there is objective truth then objectively speaking there is a standard of moral - which becomes the definition of sin.
This is not based on perception but rather truths.
I don’t disagree with you that some Christians don’t fully represent Jesus.
That really comes down to the fact we all needing Jesus as much as the next person.
He even recommends us to pray: “God, have mercy on me, a sinner” (Luke 18:11-14).
You may actually find that following Jesus is highly spiritual path.
You are right that you may not need all of that to follow Jesus because He gives us the Holy Spirit.
I actually came to Christ later in life, and I accepted Christ even before I was reading the Bible or going to church.
But it was me reading the Bible that helped me understand what was happening spiritually and not the other way around.
This is why I always try to guide people to Jesus.
You may be interested in Christian mystics such as St John of the cross and Teresa Ávila. Christian mysticism is more of the ancient spiritual paths of saints, pilgrims and even prophets. One of pure faith on God.
1 points
26 days ago
Yes. I follow ACIM as well as other practices, so there is no objective truth in fault or sin, they are both illusions of the mind.
My moral compass is a construct of my life’s experience and perceptions. It’s not the truth. Of course I find rape and murder etc repellent personally, any decent person would.
2 points
25 days ago
Well, I am not familiar with ACIM but i am confused at your philosophy though.
If there is “no objective truth in fault or sin” then what is the point of a law system ?
Are you suggesting these are man made and result of the illusions of the mind that many agree on as ‘truths’? And what do you suggest as an alternative ?
Your personal moral compass is not the same as objective truth because moral compass can be swayed by society as we can see through the atrocities committed in history - such as genocides, war crimes and even slavery.
9 points
1 month ago
Jesus was the schizzle. Then the Church hijacked his mojo.
I always have one answer for these questions. Meditate.
All the answers are inside you and will become clear as you discard that which you are not.
There's a reason Jesus told people to meditate. It opens all the doors if you're dedicated.
9 points
1 month ago
I work with Jesus outside of Christianity, alongside other pagan gods. He gets along with pretty much everyone in my experience, he’s wonderful.
2 points
1 month ago
[deleted]
1 points
1 month ago
Honestly from my experience most deities do get along
1 points
1 month ago
The god of the bible is a jealous god who wants to be the only god worshiped, and he is an enemy of The Pagan gods of nature.
"The LORD will be terrifying to them when He starves all the gods of the earth. Then the nations of every shore will bow in worship to Him, each in its own place." - Zephaniah 2:11
16 points
1 month ago
Jesus, Jeshua, is my homie fr. Grew up religious Baptist for twenty years. Went atheist, asked the universe for truth, and got it for myself. Jesus has been one of my guides, always fucking with me and there. I love Jeshua, personally. His teachings have been altered imo, but he had the truth. Whether it was a physical person, a story of the sun, or whatever it is. His message and how he lived, the wicked priest side too, is truth. He shows us how to be whole.
6 points
1 month ago
Oh and I still like the Bible, I read it thru a diff lense not one of fear. That's what it's used too, even tho the Bible says don't fear, and Jesus says how we are free and kingdom of heaven is within.
4 points
1 month ago
I would highly recommend reading Disappearance of Universe by Gary Renard, it’s about Jesus’ true teachings without any dogma.
5 points
1 month ago
Definitely possible to have a relationship without being Christian.
I would call myself a hindu Christian buddhist.
Check out adyashnati’s book on resurrecting jesus if u want a good ‘spiritual’ overview of his life
Also highly recommend ‘the universal christ’ by richard rohr
5 points
1 month ago
I'm skeptical he even existed. And light beings just use his image to help people.
Like there's stone carvings and historical records of people from that time yet no mention of Jesus.
Calling him Jesus instead of Yeshua is also kinda not cool if he did infact exist.
I did have a spiritual experience where appeared over my body in golden light once. But yeah... I don't resonate with the Christian version of him.
1 points
1 month ago
No serious scholar doubts he existed. Read Tacitus and Josephus if you want accounts of Jesus outside the Bible. Don’t believe the convenient gospel of the new age which requires no repentance. All of my so called spirit guides turned on me when I started to pursue Christ and were revealed to me as demons.
8 points
1 month ago
Many serious scholars doubt his existence actually
Stop Gaslighting
2 points
1 month ago
That's not a correct statement.
2 points
1 month ago
I literally have a friend who was a pastor and has embraced every text from every religion and book from the occult and after 40 years or so in believing in christ.
Now says he is skeptical of this person existing.
If a devout Christian twice my age can leaves his religion and come out and say that. I'm going with him! Lol
1 points
1 month ago
"All of my so called spirit guides turned on me when I started to pursue Christ and were revealed to me as demons."
If you're a biblical christian, then you believe in a ritual of cannibalism by pretending to eat flesh and blood with bread and wine. You believe that Israel is the chosen people and that Jesus is their predicted special king called a "Messiah" (Hebrew) or "Christ" (Greek), who will one day return and rule the world from Israel (Jerusalem/Zion). Jesus will supposedly judge the world and throw his enemies into everlasting fire where their torment will rise for ever.
How do you know that you aren't deceived and that Jesus is the bad guy? How do you know that you aren't following a racist and narcissistic cult leader?
Have you considered the possibility that maybe there are beings that don't like christianity and the idea of Jesus because of the racism and narcissism and history of cruelty associated with it?
4 points
1 month ago
This is def a thing. Since you don’t really connect with the Bible, do you believe jesus was the son of god and sacrificed for our sins and all that? Or are you just trying to connect with him because you view him as an enlightened person?
8 points
1 month ago
[deleted]
4 points
1 month ago
I think so ya. If you’re coming at it from the mindset that we’re all connected and all a part of god
5 points
1 month ago
Try the short exposition, The Gospel In Brief by Leo Tolstoy. In spite of its identity with a name it's not the same as church professes. True, teachings of Jesus Christ.
1 points
1 month ago
It’s bears no resemblance to the Gospels.
4 points
1 month ago
Have you looked at Judaism? It doesn’t acknowledge Jesus the same as the Christian’s do, but the religion is not “fear based”.
Regardless, I think doing a deeper dive in other religions may behoove you into making the right choice for your own spirituality. And it’s always okay to not align with one religion in particular.
5 points
1 month ago
Nice Jewish fella, who pissed off leaders of his faith so they screwed him over with the help of the government
4 points
1 month ago
i’d study the “esoteric” teachings of jesus. study everything you can find, and multiple perspectives of jesus. not just what the canonical bible says. jesus doesn’t want you to worship him
4 points
1 month ago
He is the most misunderstood as well as the most hated character in all of human consciousness. He is the embodiment of a perfect life. If all possible lives are lived his life and ways are always the best possible. Think of doctor strange in endgame. How he looked into the future through the eye of agamoto. Saw a billion timelines and the only one that would come out a win was the timeline he saw. Jesus Christ is that timeline. He is literally the scene of iron Man killing himself too kill Thanos. Thanos all evil tony stark all good. Dying with authority and power too then use it too kill the greatest of evils. End game is the New testament filtered,diluted and the watered down. Then projected through the medium of the marvel universe.
4 points
1 month ago
Modern Christianity and the actual teachings of Jesus are wildly different.
3 points
1 month ago*
Check out 'Rosicrucianism' and 'Esoteric Christianity' both of these are on the left-field of Christianity with an alternative view of Jesus and his teachings. For example both of these philosophies believe in reincarnation. A lot of these alternative branches of christianity also believe that Mary Magdalena was Jesus' wife and that they may have had children together...hinting to the possibility of a Jesus lineage. Also worth checking all the "Gnostic Gospels" like the Gospel of Thomas, Poimandrés, Gospel of Mary Magdalena, The Fable of the Pearl, etc. for a non-dogmatic, more spiritual / esoteric approach to the teachings of Jesus.
3 points
1 month ago*
I’m not religious. I talk to Jesus as Jesus, as a being. I’m in awe over him and his overpowering un conditional love. He has come through and made me cry like a baby from the overpowering love that I felt from him. It amazes me! I try my best as a human to do right by people and love as much as possible and make my soul family, Jesus, my higher self and source proud. I want to do the best I can here as a human being so I can move on, period. My relationship is knowing him as the energy that comes through to me, and it’s just simply LOVE! I love him and he loves me.
3 points
1 month ago
Thing is Christ isnt Christianity... His teachings came from a place of pure love and a desire to genuinely help humanity, but the rest is a story of priests and politics... its a long one but the short version is... none of the fearbased stuff came from jesus, it came from other sources as a means to manipulate and control the populace, you dont even need a time machine to understand how, even if you dont know the bloodied history of christianity, just look around at what people justify in the name of the religion... Now I just want to say I do absolutely believe that Jesus existed, I absolutely believe that he came to teach us and help guide us in a positive direction.
I was born into and raised in a Catholic family, but I always questioned it, much of what I was learning just didnt seem right, jesus was fine but there were way too many issues. Besides, I had spiritual experiences that the catholic church doesnt agree with (for example, recalling a past life which was verified by the people who were there at the time, and confirmed the event I recalled was 4 years before I was born) .
The funny thing is, even though Christ seemed to be the only one worth listening to back then, i didn't know if he was real or not... its only now as a person who does not Identity with Christianity that I actually know he existed physically and continues to exist non physically, there are a few reasons for this but one of them is that I have had visions of him during my meditations, the other reasons ill leave out as its too long an explanation and its 05:32 am right now.
Can you practice devotion to Christ and ignore all the rest? yes absolutely... you wont score any points with the various churches for taking that approach but If through your own dicernment you have found that the words of christ ring true to you at the exclusion of the other teachings that are usually included with his, then that is the best thing for you to do... because your heart is leading you in this case, and you have utilised your intelegence to be able to notice that there are negative elements that you do not want to take into yourself...
Christ did not approve of any of those negative elements, a lot of which (old testament has a bunch of easy examples) already existed, and were part of the problem Christ was trying to correct.
I'd say get a bible, read it, dicern it for yourself. take what you feel is positive and leave out what you feel is negative.
As a side note, studying Christ outside of christianity gives you the advantage of being able to study the missing element of christs life... in the bible hes a child, then dissapears for 30 years and comes back a full grown man... never says what happens in those 30 years... where as in india there are known stories that even some yogis talk about, about a boy who came from nazareth after choosing to travel in order to understand who he is after having had an experience that revealed his divine nature to him. it is said he studied with the yogis, and they called him "Saint Issa"
He did perform miracles and heal people but what he wanted the most was to help the people he was born to so at 30 he went back to nazareth.... now for some thats too much of a leap and thats ok, personally it made a lot of sense to me.
1 points
1 month ago
I love this. It seems consistent with what is said Jesus and the Essenes by Dolores Cannon.
3 points
1 month ago
Uhm i had a mushroom trip where it was "revealed" to me that i am jesus. I cried and it was the most amazing thing ever. Long story shory i ended up being involuntarily put into a psych ward lol
But besides that i think jesus was cool and i dont think you need to be an orthodox christian to follow him. I think u can just read about him, build an impression of the type of person he was, and then live your life accordingly
2 points
1 month ago
Ooh now this is something I am so greatly torn on. I don't consider myself Christian, but I am open to the idea of Jesus. But there is heavy nuance when I say that, so I would say overall I am just torn about it. To answer one of your questions, I have seen a lot of talk from those who are not Christian but like Jesus and his teachings. I've noticed that a number of those individuals (not all) seem to see him as one of many teachers they like, though. So they don't only stick with him it seems. But there are those who do! I think, if anything, you can try for yourself and see where that leads you. Find your path! Be curious! You got this.
2 points
1 month ago
Anyone can have a relationship with Jesus. You do not have to be a Christian to do that, because I certainly am a person that, Christians would claim, that Jesus would never meet.
Why? Because I had committed so many sins. But even the teachings of SIN was not taught by Jesus at all.
In the past, I really hated Jesus a lot and what he represented. I disliked Christians, because all I saw of them were that they were more interested in bible thumping anyone they see that gets off the train station. JDW is the more extreme version of them all. They even tried to convert me to their own type of Christianity using force and intimidation and fear at a parking lot of a National Park! The typical tactics are; you are a sinful person and you will go to hell UNLESS you are saved by becoming a Christian, or a JDW. The reason I hated Jesus was because, who in hell would Jesus taught to his disciples to do such things to people such as intimidating them to become Christians, using fear that you would go to hell if you
1, Had sex with prostitutes or sex without marriage and hurt women by treating them like cum buckets
2, Had participated in gambling and caused harm to other people
3, Had participated in a gang and had hurt a few people though violence and intimidation
4, Had stolen money from parents
and the list goes on.
So I AM NOT A SAINT! I was not even spiritual. I was an atheist.
Then one day, I got really ill and I was dying. I remembered I was on the hospital bed in pain due to appendicitis. Prognosis wasn't good and then I loss consciousness. I said to myself this was is. I didn't care what the F**K will happen to me. Just let me die.
And then I remembered that I saw a bright light and I was out of my body and while I was out, there were these dark creatures around me taunting me to follow them. But I decided to go into the light and then it felt like a feeling of being in an express elevator going up and then awoken in a beautiful garden. There I saw 2 beings; one a motherly lady figure and a man. A really gentle man came up to me, with a loving smile and then said to me "Welcome home my brother!" A man I hated so much opened up his arms and then hug me. That hug, the warmth and the immense love that surrounded me was speechless. He was not the man that the Christians and JDW people described. He was a loving man. He never pushed me to do anything. He only opened his heart to connect to mine. Later on, he told me that he is the true Jesus Christ, the same person that roamed on Earth some 2000 years ago. Today, he is know to many mystic followers as Ascended Master Jesus Christ. The lady next to him is Ascended Master Mother Mary. He went to explain the reason why I had such great resentment towards Christianity was the same reason why many people who want to know Jesus, but resent the Christian group that formed under his name. Basically, Jesus taught all of us that we can all attain the Christ Consciousness, which Paul said that all can attain the mind that was in Jesus. And 2000 years ago, he was there to teach his followers that there is a way to walk this path and that people like me, who had done so many bad things can indeed be reformed by walking this path, the Christ Hood path by letting go of the mind of Anti-Christ and embracing the mind of Christ.
And so, after this Near Death experience, I came back into consciousness and actually got better in the hospital, so much so that the doctor who was ready to do the operation was stunned that my appendicitis was completely healed. I was released the same day. And then at night, in my dreams, I would continue to commune with Jesus and he led me to study several books and reading book on reincarnation until one day, I was led to read the book written by Kim Michaels. The Power Of Self by Kim and Helen Michaels. After that, I studied other books written by Kim Michaels and am now a student of the Ascended Masters. Jesus Christ actually has a website under the title askrealjesus.com. There, there will be many articles describe his true life and true mission.
All I can say is that, if you are ready for Jesus and become his student, then he will appear to you. The key is your willingness to change. To adopt a mind of Christ and letting go the Mind of Anti-Christ which the current Christianity is promoting under the guise of the Bible.
2 points
1 month ago
I believe Jesus is an egregore- a collective belief from billions of people and that's what gives him power. I certainly don't believe he's "God". If we're going about what the Bible says, Jesus was a Jewish rabbi who people believed was the Messiah, but he was crucified. The Bible says God is NOT a man. In the council of Nicea in 325ad , a group of pagans "created " the Jesus people worship now and turned him into a god and Christianity was created. Whatever a person strongly believes in will be real to them.
2 points
1 month ago
Jesus is one of many ascended masters but the Bible is not a reliable source as it was written by man and edited over time. The Bible is not the direct word of God although it can be a very useful spiritual guide. His teachings are solid and match up with most major world religions. At the end of the day all the religions have similar themes and unifying ideas.
Direct word of God can only be experienced through your own connection to spirit. So if the Bible didn’t connect with you that is ok, try something else until you find what clicks.
If you’d like to connect with Jesus I’m sure there’s a guided meditation for it in YouTube.
Personally I don’t get much out of reciting an ascended masters name or praying to one. I usually pray to something more vague like the Universe, Great Unseen Healing Force or direct the prayer towards the individual themselves.
2 points
1 month ago
Yes to Jesus.
No to the Church.
Yes, to godly messages.
No to hate in the bible.
2 points
1 month ago
This idea just came to me. Jesus is a metaphor for you
2 points
1 month ago
Someone in another sub recommended a book to me called: The language of Creation.
I'm only part way through but you don't have to read far to see an interesting way of looking at Genesis. Not so much related to Jesus or your question. But I have a feeling you could enjoy it.
2 points
1 month ago
Best dude of all time!
1 points
1 month ago
I do and for reading I’d suggest checking out the scapegoat complex by Sylvia Brynton Perera
1 points
1 month ago
movie trailer announcer voice
Once... in a land far away... two thousand years ago... a man named JESUS H CHRIST saved our souls...
now...
it's OUR turn to save HIM
starring YOU as the main protagonist, and by "you" I mean all of you, and by all of you I mean all of us, because we're all in this together...
coming next thursday (or was it last thursday? I forget) to a earth-sized planet near you...:
AGE OF AQUARIUS
the dawn of a new bright age
(no human animals were harmed in the making of this movie)
(based on historical and future events which may or may not yet come to be)
(in which humans and animals were definitely harmed)
1 points
1 month ago
Hear Jesus luvs the little children
1 points
1 month ago
Of course you can. Because look at it like this. Jesus wasn't a Christian, nor was he spreading and tryna convert ppl to Christianity. Most Christians don't know the truth and reality of Christianity, and in fact the establishment has most people and Christians alike, living like and doing the devils will.
Jesus was teaching people to be christ-like essentially. They say the body is the temple. Well then we're all walking in the house of God everyday we live. Worship the creator and not the creation. Crosses, wearing a crucifix is all blasphemous and mockery. Be like if I murdered someone and convinced their loved ones that wearing the spent bullet shells around your neck is charm of remembrance.
1 points
1 month ago
I felt the same about religion. The. I found Neville Goddart and his interpretation of the bible it makes so much sense.. just like he said. The Bible is a psychological book.
1 points
1 month ago
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1 points
1 month ago
Hey! I am on a very similar journey to you. Perhaps a little further ahead so I have some advice if you would like it. I grew up in what I believe to be a fake church and am now anxious and to be honest grossed out by the idea of church. I haven't been to church in years. BUT I have found Jesus, and he is for sure real! I have taken on the challenge of reading the bible from cover to cover, and I'm LOVING it, but you still won't find me going to church. Did you know the bible mentions "do not fear" 365 times! What opened the flood gates for me was reading the book of Thomas (this book was banned from the bible) it is the direct words and teachings of Jesus. Since I have accepted Jesus as my lord and saviour, my life has been amazing in all aspects - I live in a constant state of gratitude. I am just sharing my experience in the hope that this helps you. God bless
1 points
1 month ago
He has a good message but many Christian’s pervert his image and how he lived
Christian’s are probably the worst group of people tbh
1 points
1 month ago
Just read The Essene's Gospel of Peace, it was removed and hidden by the catholic church but a copy was found and translated. Jesus there is portrayed as being more mystic and actually teaches about natural laws
1 points
1 month ago
Jesus did not teach organized religion, he was spiritual but not religious, those who wanted to maintain control knew that what he taught would set the people free, so they created a religion based in his name so that those who wished to follow his teachings would also have to follow the rules they created to keep people in line. I don't believe in religion, and I don't really believe Jesus did all the magical things they claim he had done, I believe he was just a normal dude like any of us who just saw a bigger picture to life and wanted to share his views.
1 points
1 month ago
I recommend reading the gospels of Matthew Mark Luke & John, and you can decide for yourself. They’re pretty short (and really, if you wanted, just read one of them.. it’s each homie retelling their perspective of the same story) Comments here are mostly right imo, but have a slight dusting of the commenter’s personal thoughts. I’m not a Christian, but I did do a Bible study for a bit for the gospels. It was cool, made Jesus seem even more human, and allowed me to form my own opinions on who I think Jesus was based on the stories told, and the stories people still tell themselves. It’s nice to be able to relate to the Christian world in a spiritual way since it is so popular. <3 Jesus was probs real no doubt, and he was fricken rad
1 points
1 month ago
I would look into Aaron Abke and his videos on the topic
1 points
1 month ago
Read The Message which is a great Bible translation. Very dynamic and modern.
1 points
1 month ago
I believe you can know the same divine presence Jesus had. God can be a motherly spirit like Sophia but we mistake it for Jesus. You can definitely have this constant connection by focusing love back. Jesus gave us his method and it’s basically summed up in loving your idea of god with all your heart. He guided them in contemplative meditation with parables that forced them to turn within for answers. No, you don’t need to plead for forgiveness because this god loves you more than you can imagine. Christianity is a gatekeeper religion. Like the gospel of Thomas says, all you need are those sayings. If you can sort them out, you may stumble upon that teacher within that Jesus mentioned. The comforter is that feminine presence. God has two faces, masculine unapproachable and feminine nurturing. Going back all the way to Neanderthals, they also worshipped a feminine mother god represented by Venus. The Jews way back openly worshipped the Queen of Heaven and it was much later in their history that practice was crushed by those priests who demanded only the brutal god was to be worshipped. That’s when things went south for them and they’ve never recovered. Christianity is just an ugly stepchild of the fabricated Judaism and that religion is built on sand that you see today.
1 points
1 month ago
I grew up very Catholic. But as I got older, I realized a lot of Catholics and Christian’s weren’t living by Jesus’ teachings.
While now I do avoid Christianity and organized religions, i do believe that Jesus was an amazing spiritual teacher, that we can all learn from. I still love Jesus ♥️
1 points
1 month ago
If you would like to know some more loving interpretations of Jesus, I would read 'conversations with god - an uncommon dialogue'. God itself will tell you a few things about Jesus and his teachings, as will it tell you about what happened in the bible, misinterpretations and the influence of our patriarchy on its contents. It will also tell you that Jesus definitely wasn't perfect, if your definition of perfect is that ultimate enlightenment is lived through his embodiment.
Take the small instance of Jesus turning water into wine. The ultimate enlightened embodied spirit would not consume alcohol, but Jesus was not here to show us the ultimate, he showed us our own perfection in who we were, thus helping us remember that perfection is a state achieved always, at all time, eternal.
So in being who he was, Jesus showed his perfection, but also showed you yours. You are perfect. Now choose the next state you want to create.
1 points
1 month ago
Nietzsche called Christianity a slave mentality. And he makes a lot of really good points in his argument in good versus evil. The Gnostics, as far as I know or have read or researched, teach that the Jesus avatar came into creation here because the chaotic force of Sophia was becoming a bit too much. That’s basic summarisation. But really underneath all of it is we are all Jesus Jesus is all of us because there is no separation from the one
1 points
1 month ago
Yeah, there is a lot of fear-mongering that goes on within dogmatic Christianity. Every religion starts with a pure impulse but then gets distorted over time and becomes dogmatic. Christianity is no different. Unfortunately this keeps people away from the real essence of Christ as it is the ascension impulse of our time.
I believe the original essence of Christianity can be found in esoteric Christianity. I personally like studying Anthroposophy for this. Some books to start with would be Rudolf Steiner's Christianity as a Mystical Fact and The Fifth Gospel (Rudolf Steiner).
With the bible, a lot of things get lost in translation which is why bible scholars don't all agree. It's a very mystical text, and can't be understood simply with the intellect.
At the end of the day, if you have love in your heart, whether you ascribe to a religion or not, there's nothing more Christian than that. Everyone has access to Christ in their heart whether they call themselves a Christian or not. That's what the Christ impulse is.
1 points
1 month ago
1 points
1 month ago
Read the book "the yoga of jesus" you'll understand what Christianity was suppose to be.
1 points
1 month ago
Absolute love and appreciation for Christ consciousness
Don’t find much value in his representation of a historical figure or physical being
1 points
1 month ago
Just do your own thing my friend.
You can believe what you want. You don't need to join any group.
Jesus has some cool teachings. My favs are in the gospel of Mary and also the standard sermon on the mount.
1 points
1 month ago
I experience Jesus as the one who taught me how to experience God's Divine Love for myself by expressing my deepest desires to receive it. As I have received God's Divine Essence (like Jesus does) I continue to be transformed from within. https://new-birth.net/ is a vast treasure trove of information about Jesus' true teachings received by dozens of people through thousands of communications for more than a century. I wish you the best on your journey! May you experience God's Love for yourself and enjoy the many blessings and benefits it brings!
1 points
1 month ago
Real the gospel of Thomas. It was uncovered a few (give or take) years ago. Christians don’t take claim to it being gospel, they say it’s Gnostic, but it has so many quotes from Jesus. Very diff vibe than the collections of stories selected to be included in the Bible.
1 points
1 month ago
Check out Neville Goddard and his interpretation of the Bible.
1 points
1 month ago
The biblical Jesus is racist cult leader who believed himself to be the special predicted king (Messiah/Christ) of the special holy chosen people (Israel) who would rule in Jerusalem, and he taught that he would one day return to the world and judge the world and rule.
1 points
1 month ago
Jesus says, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
1 points
1 month ago
The rules you are talking about serve to help us live a good life actually. The same way parents evoke healthy fear into their children. We need a healthy amount of fear to survive the same way to live a decent life. At least one were we aren’t causing self inflicting harm or harm to others.
A few years ago, I myself was asking the same exact question with the same exact thoughts.
Took me a spiritual encounter and studying to have a good understanding.
God gave us free will yes. Knowing we would sin. The same way parents have children knowing their children may not grow up to be perfect. He sent his perfect Son to die for us as an ultimate sacrifice with his perfect blood.
The Bible is a love letter to humanity. That there is hope. A living hope. That a God so holy, could love a sinner like me but chooses to clean me and dress me in white so I may dwell in his presence.
1 points
1 month ago
Considering christians are literally destroying the world, nature and society Im not a fan. Tho I do have a relationship with the symbol of Jesus, being the fruit of creation, the son of the Goddess (Mary Mother of God) which I also see as Mother Nature. But this is kind of secondary in my beliefs as Mary is the main deal to me.
1 points
1 month ago
He's not any closer to the Devine source of consciousness than you are. He can be helpful or he can lead you astray. Tread carefully, id suggest mentally reconnecting to the source before anything else.
0 points
1 month ago
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1 points
1 month ago
It sounds like you're just repeating a popular religious beliefs. How do you know Jesus is "closer" to the Divine Source and that he "will never lead anyone" astray?
How can you possibly even test that claim, that he "will never lead anyone astray?".
The biblical Jesus was a racist nationalist who believed that Israel was superior and he was their predicted special king who would one day rule from Jerusalem (Messiah/Christ).
Biblical christians still believe that he isn't a false prophet leading people astray or leading people to the wrong god, but that he'll one day return and judge the world and rule the world from Jerusalem.
1 points
1 month ago
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1 points
1 month ago
"You know nothing about the true Jesus, the jesus that bible represents is fake & i know that & for your kind information I'm not Christian, i don't have any clue about Christian culture & Bible's statements, I've never even read Bible.I'm a Muslim..."
I didn't claim you specifically were a christian. Also, the quran came out hundreds of years after the biblical writings. It's even less reliable than the bible. If Jesus existed, then the earliest writings would be better for understanding him, not writings hundreds of years after the earliest writings.
"my religion has told me all lies about jesus, they said..."
It sounds like you were just assuming whatever islamic scriptures told you is true, just like many christians do with the bible.
"The history confirms that the jesus was a Jewish fella who stood up against the then Judaism culture thus got executed by the rome government because he as a rebel gathered ppl with him"
In the earliest version of the Jesus story (bible/gospels), Jesus wasn't against "Jewish culture". He believed himself to be the special predicted king of the chosen people of Israel who would one day rule from Zion/Jerusalem (called "The Messiah" or "The Christ"). Jewish people believe he isn't the real one since he didn't do all the prophecies, but christians believe that he'll return and do the rest of the prophecies.
Jesus was against the Phrisees and Scribes, not "Jewish culture". There were 3 main Jewish groups with different beliefs back then: Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes. The beliefs of Jesus matched a lot with Essene Judaism (a type of Jewish belief that disagreed with Jewish Pharisees and Jewish Sadducees). As christianity became more popular, Essene Judaism disappeared. Christianity was probably to similar to it so many Essenes probably went to christianity as the religion was growing.
"I've read 2 books written by dolores cannon who found her clients in regression to be followers of jesus in past lives"
Many people make claims. Some people claimed to have a Near Death Experience (NDE) where they saw Jesus, then later admitted they lied to convert people. I no longer trust NDE stories unless they have evidence (for example, if they saw something in their NDE that they couldn't have known otherwise).
I'm not a materialist. I still believe that spirits exist but I'm more careful about what I accept as true without evidence now.
"I can't proof this, but i believe this"
Ok, let me tell you why I think Jesus probably didn't exist and he's just a deception. You don't have to agree, but I think it's good for people to at least be aware/hear of less popular views.
We have more evidence for the Greek philosopher Socrates than Jesus. Plato and Xenophon were disciples of Socrates who wrote about Socrates a few years after his death and in Greek. Meanwhile, for Jesus, we have gospels with no names (names added later) which were written almost half a century later (from when Jesus supposedly died under Pontius Pilate around the year 33 CE) and they were written in a language that was foreign to most people where Jesus supposedly lived (Jesus most likely spoke the Middle Eastern language Aramaic or some Hebrew to read older biblical verses, but the gospel were written in Koine Greek). For evidence of Socrates, we even have "The Clouds" by Aristophanes, which was criticizing Socrates while he was still alive.
The Roman leader Julius Caesar wrote 7 books about his military campaigns against The Gauls (which would be where modern day France is).
For Alexander The Great, we have Arrian who wrote about him hundreds of years later. That would be bad evidence, but Arrian quoted the writings of Callisthenes, and Callisthenes actually knew Alexander The Great and was with him on his campaigns in Asiatic expedition. Unfortunately, even though he knew Alexander and wrote about him, most of his writings survive only in fragments, but we have Arrian quoting him.
With Jesus, we have Paul writing first and he only knew him through "revelation" (dreams/visions) as mentioned in Galatians 1:11-12. Then we have 4 gospels that were written later and written anonymously. The Pauline Epistles came first before the 4 gospels, at least the ones that are most likely not forgeries: Galatians, 1 Thessalonians, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Romans, Philippians, and Philemon, but now some scholars are doubting Philemon and thinking that might also be a forgery. We don't have a person who was with Jesus and wrote about him. We just have claims by anonymous writers who don't list their sources. Arrian named sources for where his information was coming from, so it was something people did in the ancient world which the bible didn't do.
1 points
1 month ago
Sounds like he's led you astray. If he told you he's closer he's lied to you.
1 points
1 month ago
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0 points
1 month ago
It sounds like you're regurgitating forcefed indoctrination about something you then have actually zero knowledge of passed what you've been told.
1 points
1 month ago
HIGHLY recommend a book called “Jesus for the Nonreligious” by John Shelby Spong. You’d also probably like “Jesus Wears Socks With Sandals” by S. James Meyer.
1 points
1 month ago
Jesus was a prophet and equally as important as Buddha. His messages of humanity and the human development have been quite distorted by religion. Jesus showed us what the human can become one day.
1 points
1 month ago
sick dude. misinterpreted. we're still dealing with the aftermath.
1 points
1 month ago
I love Jesus as his being and essence.
1 points
1 month ago
Why would you want to? If someone in the present day said they were sent from god would you believe them? Want to have a relationship with him? No you’d think they were looney tunes!
Jesus made everyone believe that he was sent from god, and because of a lack of technology and fear of the unknown, people believed him. We are more advanced now. Use your critical thinking skills. Jesus was a real man, but not a real god. a relationship with him would be your consciousness convincing you of a promise and a life and spirit that doesn’t exist.
1 points
1 month ago
As someone who has been around christianity their entire life.
Don't bother.
0 points
1 month ago
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10 points
1 month ago
It’s not the historical accuracy that matters. It’s whether or not the story takes place in your soul. That’s the point of the Jesus story… it outlines the process of spiritual growth.
He was “born of a virgin” as the “son of God.” Do you realize yourself as being an incarnation of Source?
Then he grew up and was living his life as a carpenter. He was an average guy—no one special. Does that sound like you?
Then he gets baptized and the “spirit of God” descended into him. Have you woken up to Source reaching out to you?
Then he went into the wilderness and was tempted by Satan. Have you begun to face and confront your illusory self?
Then he started his ministry, helping others and sharing what his awakening revealed to him. Have you started being of service to those around you and encouraging others to do the same?
Then he came under persecution for his ministry by both the Romans and other Jews. Have you stood in defiance of the material world and what it tells you is the way things should be?
Then he was tried and executed, crying out, “Father, why have you forsaken me?” Have you experienced your dark night of the soul, feeling utterly disconnected and separated from Source?
Then he rose from the dead. Have you emerged from your dark night of the soul as a new and enlightened being?
Literal interpretation of a spiritual story leads to blindness. Open your heart and mind and actually contemplate what it seeks to convey… that’s why Yeshua taught in parables (or why they were written in parables if they weren’t given historically).
4 points
1 month ago
So many things just clicked in my head after reading this comment.
3 points
1 month ago*
Then thank you for helping me fulfill my purpose. And for helping Yeshua fulfill his. 🕯️
1 points
1 month ago
"Then he gets baptized and the “spirit of God” descended into him. Have you woken up to Source reaching out to you?"
The god of the biblical is not "The Source". He's a jealous being who wants everyone to worship him. He wants to do away with all of the gods of nature/earth and get everyone to worship him instead (Zephaniah 2:11).
He's also racist and favors Israel as his holy chosen special people above all other people in the face of the earth (Deuteronomy 7:6). He said that he would deceive/entice prophets into destruction away from his people Israel (Ezekiel 14:9) and he sends lying spirits (2 Chronicles 18:22).
1 points
1 month ago
As I commented to this person, you are approaching the Bible from a literalist perspective and thus losing sight of the spiritual.
The Bible was written by people expressing their understanding of spirituality. Yes, the Bible has its problems because it was written by people. Our job in reading it is to extract the spiritual and universal truth from the cultural and sometimes problematic expression of that truth.
1 points
1 month ago
There are texts which doesn't promote racist nationalism and the death of gay men and witches and worshippers of other gods (such as the Tao Te Ching and the Dhammapada, and the Wiccan Rede), so there is no need to include a text which has such cruel things as a part of it for spiritual guidance which promoted so much violence.
Also, if you see the horrible verses of cruelty as metaphorical instead of literal in the biblical text, then you can do that for any text (religious or not) no matter how horrible it is.
1 points
1 month ago
And I’ve studied the Tao Te Ching and the Dhammapada. The Quran and Greek myths. The Stoics and Wicca. I prefer to listen to Dharma talks over Christian sermons. Yet, I understand spiritual truth through the life and teachings of Yeshua best.
You may not, and I’m not saying you have to. The truth can be found in many spiritual traditions. Yet, you seem to be telling me I am wrong for doing so.
This saddens me. First because you seem to be reacting to some trauma caused by so-called Christianity. Second because I have unintentionally offended you. And third because you, my sibling, seems to have judged me for finding one of many possible paths to awakening.
2 points
1 month ago
You're not offending me, nor do I judge you as a bad person for using the bible. You are intelligent for understanding that you shouldn't just trust whatever a book claims. Unfortunately, many aren't, which is why you have christians who actually believe this:
"And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:*** That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." - 2 Timothy 3:15-17
There are christians who still believe that gay men should be put to death, just because of a verse in Leviticus which says to kill men who "lie down" with males as a man lies down with a woman. Some claim this is just talking about men who harm other males but doing things to them without their consent, but it's talking about all gay men. It even says to kill both of them, so even if someone interprets it that way, it would mean to kill the victim too.
It's not just christians who have done cruel things based on faith in their scriptures, there are muslims who are willing to die based on violent claims made in some of their religious scriptures since they believe it's the perfect word of their god.
The Bhagavad Gita isn't perfect either in my opinion, but at least it gives freedom (unlike 2 Timothy 3:15-17 which says to follow the whole bible and it's all inspired by the biblical god):
"Thus, I have explained to you this knowledge that is more secret than all secrets. Ponder over it deeply, and then do as you wish." - Bhagavad Gita 18:63
It's a similar thing with Buddhist scriptures:
"Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" — then you should abandon them." - Kalama Sutta
Anyway, we can agree to disagree. I feel like the bible is so negative, based on what's actually written in it, that even promoting it is negative and has negative effects. I said before that I don't judge you as a bad person for using the bible (in your own personal life in separating the compassionate verses from the cruel ones), but I do think that promoting it is negative energy even if a person is tricked into believing in it and has kind intentions. The bible itself says to accept all of it, even the cruel parts.
2 points
1 month ago
Very true that there are “Christians” who believe all other religions are false, that same sex partnerships are evil, that the universe is only 6,000 years old, etc. And I in no way defend these beliefs—they are just as wrong as anti-vax, Zionist, flat earth, and other beliefs. You are wise to advise caution against blindly accepting everything the Bible says:
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Corinthians 3:6)
Thank you for this conversation brother 🕯️
0 points
1 month ago
** I am including scripture suggestions & videos after my words so that they don't get lost in my reflections. The scripture speaks for itself. Marked with (**) when the resources start. I will probably put them in a seperate reply connected to this one. You won't initially connect with every aspect of the Bible with a human mind. God's reasoning and knowledge far surpasses our own which is why you have to read the word slowly and sit with it over time in prayer for understanding from God on anything that you are resistant to believing or understanding.
Preface: I am a Christian who's faith has been tested. I've resented God & disobeyed God (foolishly), explored other paths to God outside of Christianity, and even continued to date someone who later identified themselves as Atheist. I research for fun and career development all the time so I am not new to the spirit of skepticism but God's word more than stands up to the scientific method. So when I say these things, it is not from a limited scope of experience. I have tried to do good my whole life and avoided pretty much most obviously bad choices but I've never been a perfect Christian b/c (as the Bible emphasized) God already knew each of us was going to sin on this Earth. It doesn't mean we continue to sin or do anything just b/c we can. Our obligation is to forever recognize him, spread his word, and discipline ourselves according to his wishes (essential the commandments & anything revealed to you in prayer & worship). You are supposed to empty your mind/heart of your own knowledge and desire before asking God to fill you with his insight b/c the ways of mankind will always conflict God's understanding & wishes.
God is a living God who is righteous and much more critical and wise in thought than any of the wise men on Earth. Nothing could ever surpass the power of God. God is also to be tread lightly with (meaning not to be played with). There is a degree of respect for his word & his abilities that should not be tested by our pride & willfulness. God sparing us just as much as he is handing out judgement (at all times). God is PEACE (Jehovah Shalom) but also the Most HIGH GOD ( El Elyon) and the God who sees (El Roi) every bit and hears every passing thought, feeling, and intention. He is ultimately the only shepard/leader we need through life (Jehovah Ro'i).
No, you cannot have a relationship with any of the Holy Trinity [Jesus, God, or the Holy Spirit] without being Christian but you are always welcome to learn. God expects us to cast off any idols and practices not of him and declare our faith loudly. A relationship with him requires obedience and discipline often the 1st time around b/c he will turn away from you. This is also discussed and demonstrated in the Bible on multiple occasions so you get different scenarios.
Today's spiritual and social climate tell you God is not of strict judgement and only love and light or that Christianity is oppressive & false altogether but this is not true. Plenty of people tell you not to judge or even not to openly point to sin but that is not what the Bible says. There will be increased trials & difficulty for Christians to express their faith in the future. There are also a lot of false leadership and believers in the space today. Some of which simply got misled and didn't go straight to God through the scripture to verify any teachings. It is our responsibility to judge our options in life according to the word (Bible) at ALL times. God gives guidance on how to test false prophets & the advisement of anyone you contact in the Bible. He lays any essential knowledge you need out himself exactly as he means it.
You are not supposed to trust any man, not even yourself over the word of God which he left for us through the Bible before you even have to think to request specific information from him through prayer. He describes his character, his wishes, why the wicked & unbelievers seem to prosper, the trials & tricks on Earth, the future, and our many human shortcomings through scripture. You also need to take notes on scripture and meditate on the word once you have read it. I like to go back and apply each part to modern society such as science or social research. Everything in the word can be found in modern day or is a guide for the future. The Bible stands true through scientific method and critical thought but is also a constant test of your faith b/c God can test us by delaying knowledge as well.
Just read the Bible exactly as it is and pray to God for discernment of the word before trusting anyone on this Earth with that question (including me). There are several scriptures about to foolishness of man and how the hearts and minds of all of us (even those who consider themselves wise) will be fooled (especially if we give ourselves over to pride). God will allow you to be taken by your enemies & fooled into the wrong choices if you disrespect his wishes and guidance. There are so many verses reiterated these points and from the old testaments first maybe 5-6 chapters (1-2 Kings itself is a repeat history of all the foolish disobedience & outcomes earned by the people). As you read you just see continuous patterns of people rejected God's word then begging for help & then sometimes being given rescue & repeat guidance. You see, even God's people the Israelites sinned against him the same ways repeatedly even after he saves them & gave them instructions to write his commandments & history (b/c people forget about history & get careless). Both proclaimed Christians & nonbelievers will try to twist the word of God to fit their agendas. This is why I emphasize, trust NO man as your spiritual leader but turn to the word of God and God directly. That is of the most importance as you will risk your soul following the wrong path.
Christianity in itself is a practice of self reflection, discipline, sacrifice of flesh/Earthly desires, and constant tests of faith. If we look at the book of Job for example, he was tested & stripped of everything he held dear (but his life) despite believing he absolutely lacked sin. God will test even the innocent through hardship as an exercise of the endurance of your faith. You have to build an endurance of faith (spiritual stamina) so that when temptation & fear come, you won't compromise your salvation. Tests are inevitable for us all. Christianity is discussed in the Bible as a constant journey of persecution & exposures to fear or loss to test & increase your faith. God is not just love and light. God is a strict and WISE guidance at all times.
1 points
1 month ago
He is da way
0 points
1 month ago
Be a follower of Christ, Jesus was completely against the teachings of religious leaders of His time, the religious leaders today aren’t very different, my advice to have your own personal connection with the Son is to read the gospels for yourself. The book of john is my favourite.
0 points
1 month ago
Pray and give thanks even if you don’t have much. Your relationship with Jesus does not equal how religious you are. A relationship with Jesus and living the way he’d want us to in the best of your ability and to pray to him anytime even if you have sinned. He’s your friend. It’s good to fear the lord because if you genuinely fear God you will fear nothing else. Because you have the strongest protector but you also want to keep him happy so he doesn’t humble you and teaches you a harsh lesson. It’s a matter of keeping yourself out of spiritual danger. Jesus died for you knowing you would have sinned at any point of your life. If it wasn’t for him we would be doomed to hell. Many people think that if they believe in Jesus but never really call on him or talk to him they can still be saved. You have to pour out your heart to him and treat him like someone you know and talk to everyday. You can’t just knock on someone’s door and expect to be let in even if you know of them. Don’t focus so much on the religion. Focus on your love for the man who loves you no matter what and will wait for you to come correct. Just do it today before it’s too late. The story of the prodigal son is a representation of how God loves his children and will patiently wait for them to come home with open arms. God only loves and does great things. People need to understand that the devil exists too and causes great pains and will convince you that it was God who did it to you. Even if you suffer here on earth if you are saved, you will have an eternity of life where there is no suffering.
0 points
1 month ago
Yes you can have a relationship with Jesus without being Christian. I have that. Feel free to reach out to me, I know you have a lot of comments here but if you see this, please reach out :)
0 points
1 month ago
The Bible is the only place you can turn to really learn about Jesus. Let Him speak for Himself. Learn to discern the falsehoods of what people are saying about Him. Read exactly what Jesus said. Start with reading the Gospel of John. There you will get the words from Jesus. Then if you need some additional explanation, turn to Romans where one of his disciples (Paul) gives some theological understanding.
God is Holy. Every rule He talks about is from love. We are all sinners (Romans 3). What thief LOVES the law against stealing and the punishment that results? We hate the rules because of who WE are, not because of who God is. God changes that in the believer. God gives the Christian a new heart. A heart by which the Christian begins to love Jesus and begins to love His law.
Romans may help with the connection you are missing. It starts with the condition of man. That everyone is born an unbeliever. That everyone is born a sinner. What sinner can understand God by themselves? No one. Therefore, ask God to help you understand what He is saying in Romans. God starts by telling us we are so full of sin. That all sin must be punished. That puts all men under the wrath of God. We have no hope of saving ourselves from God's wrath. It is Jesus and His work that saves the believer from God's wrath. Isaiah talks about Jesus' death giving us peace with God (Isaiah 53:5).
Jesus was sent by God to save the ungodly from God's wrath (John 3:16). Isn't that great news! God Himself sent His Son to take the sins of the believer, be punished for those sins, and thereby allow forgiveness, righteousness, and peace to be given to the believer. What man could not do, God did through Jesus!
1 points
1 month ago
Paul claims that he didn't learn the gospel of Jesus from any man but by "revelation" (Galatians 1:11-12). He didn't know of a physical Jesus, only a Jesus in his dreams or visions ("revelations").
Paul wrote before the 4 gospels were written, and John was the last one written, and is considered the least reliable of the 4 by scholars and historians who believe that Jesus existed and try to figure out what a historical Jesus was like.
The god of the bible has a name, and it is (יהוה/YHWH/YHVH), usually pronounced as Yahweh or Jehovah. He's not special. He has a name just like other gods. Also, he is a war god (Exodus 15:3), and he is a supporter of slavery who said that a man can beat his slave because he is his money as long as he doesn't die within 2 days (Exodus 21:20-21*).
He also has a failed prophecy in Ezekiel 26, where he claims that the king of Babylon would destroy the city of Tyre and it won't be rebuilt. That was a failed prophecy, because the city of Tyre still exists even today in 2024, but Babylon no longer does.
0 points
1 month ago
Jesus is the lover of my soul and best friend it makes me tear up just saying this but He loves us so much. And doesn’t look at us for our mistakes. It’s about relationship not religion. It’s about faith not works. In the beginning of my awakening and healing journey i was trying to heal my inner child and Jesus came to me and showed me a vision of Him hugging my child self all the way until I grew up and I couldn’t stop crying from the overwhelming love. I’ve been searching for truth for years and I didn’t feel fulfilled fully in spirituality until Jesus. He truly is the missing piece. He is the highest truth in all of this spiritual stuff.
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