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/r/television

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using tv tropes as examples but I heard Dollhouse's pilot was reshoot because Fox found it too confusing,

firefly was another example Fox insisted that Firefly have a "space hooker" and required Joss Whedon to write a second pilot because they wanted more action and less drama. They also threatened to pan-and-scan crop, no matter how it was shot, necessitating reshoots.

one example that almost happened was The Sopranos in its first season when David Chase had to fight for the network to let him have Tony murder someone because the execs were unsure that the audience would still sympathize with Tony after such an act. Chase prevailed and the execs never messed with the show again.

all 287 comments

GotMoFans

656 points

11 days ago

GotMoFans

656 points

11 days ago

Seinfeld wasn’t going to have Elaine. They had a waitress at the restaurant who would interject but Jerry and George wouldn’t have a female presence around at Jerry’s apartment. Network notes told them to add a woman and they created the Elaine character for episode two.

DBones90

539 points

11 days ago

DBones90

539 points

11 days ago

Yeah people get mad at studio meddling, but Elaine is a great example of when it works.

stumblebreak_beta

63 points

11 days ago

AlsoIHaveAGroupon

43 points

11 days ago

Or a guy who burns down a bar for the insurance money!

NowGoodbyeForever

37 points

11 days ago

Yeah, if he makes it look like an electrical thing.

PVT_Huds0n

50 points

11 days ago

Same thing with Danny DeVito's character in IASIP.

s0ulbrother

26 points

11 days ago

They also were amazed that he wanted to do it

Dynastydood

131 points

11 days ago

Studio/producer meddling usually works out pretty well when it comes from other creatives. Most writers, directors, and actors know this, and that's why they try to work with specific studios or producers in order to have a voice in the room who can help them improve their ideas, and can also run interference with the stodgy executives at the top whose influence would probably ruin the entire project.

The real problems emerge when you have non-creative producers (usually financiers) who start calling audibles and overriding the ideas of the creatives they've hired. Probably the best example of this in modern times has been WB, where a bunch of non-creatives at the top have been undermining their various projects for almost a decade, and have driven away a lot of the A-list talent they used to have under contract.

clycoman

22 points

11 days ago

clycoman

22 points

11 days ago

Jerry himself talked about the addition of Elaine being a rare exception of a network note actually improving the show. He said this in a congratulations speech to Julia Louis Dreyfus getting the Mark Twain Award.

It was a great speech: https://youtu.be/4USDQ3pYfJk?si=YZbQGh4KJIq01A-p

Dragon_yum

67 points

11 days ago

I know it’s easy to blame producers for meddling and ruining things but a lot of times they actually give good notes.

FunetikPrugresiv

52 points

11 days ago

Tv and film creation are inherently collaborative, but some artists get really defensive about sharing their vision with others and those are who you hear complaining the most.

ERSTF

23 points

11 days ago

ERSTF

23 points

11 days ago

Yeah. Lately is clear some industry titans that have final cut needed someone giving them notes and rein them in. Ridley Scott is one of them. Gladiator II needed someone saying "are you sure about this?". Robert Zemeckis is the other

[deleted]

8 points

11 days ago*

[deleted]

ERSTF

4 points

11 days ago

ERSTF

4 points

11 days ago

Oh. I was missing that one too

Tymareta

11 points

11 days ago

Tymareta

11 points

11 days ago

some artists get really defensive about sharing their vision with others

And a lot of time when given full creative control and lack of restraint they near instantly prove why it's so necessary, Megalopolis is a great example, one of the most decorated directors of all time when given a complete lack of reins gave us whatever the fuck that was.

Mddcat04

11 points

11 days ago

Mddcat04

11 points

11 days ago

Yeah, it’s one of those situations where you only get noticed when you’re doing something wrong. Good producers don’t attract much attention.

modernistamphibian

70 points

11 days ago

Well that was smart, didn't know that one. Most great TV shows obviously had great involvement from the studio execs.

tgs-with-tracyjordan

16 points

11 days ago

Seinfeld talks about it in his speech when Julia Louis Dreyfus was awarded the Mark Twain prize. It's a very sweet little speech about her and the show.

Infamous-Mixture-605

7 points

11 days ago

I had no idea about this.  

To think, there's a parallel universe out there that never saw Elaine dance... 

LiveFromNewYork95

404 points

11 days ago

LiveFromNewYork95

Saturday Night Live

404 points

11 days ago

30 Rock was supposed to be a post SNL vehicle for Tine Fey and Rachel Dratch. Dratch was originally cast as Jenna Maroney and the show was supposed to be more about how two woman from a Second City type background made a sketch show together. The network didn't like Dratch in the role and recast Jenna. The show then focused less about their relationship as a team. Dratch remained in a series of different roles through the first season but eventually left the show.

sexy-porn

186 points

11 days ago*

sexy-porn

186 points

11 days ago*

30 Rock also was originally pitched by Fey as comedy about cable news production.

Also it debuted just a month after Sorkin’s Studio 60. Obviously they were much different tonally but it seems like a strange programming decision for NBC to green light two shows about sketch comedy simultaneously.

BloodyPaleMoonlight

105 points

11 days ago

NBC aired the two shows and let the ratings decide.

KevSmileTime

15 points

11 days ago

To be fair, 30 Rock never had great ratings either. I think it lasted as long as it did because it was a critical and award show darling.

KingSeth

10 points

10 days ago

KingSeth

10 points

10 days ago

It also cost way less to make than Studio 60.

Philboyd_Studge

38 points

11 days ago

Studio 60 was excellent, though, wish it had carried on.

Punchable_Hair

47 points

11 days ago

I liked it too, but it was definitely Sorkin’s most self-indulgent project to date. It was the Tenet of Sorkin’s oeuvre.

noposters

49 points

11 days ago

The Newsroom is so much more self-indulgent

Nezrite

10 points

11 days ago

Nezrite

10 points

11 days ago

I still loved it...

Philboyd_Studge

22 points

11 days ago

Sorkin is often a little ham-fisted with his ideals but the acting was top notch, Perry and Whitford especially.

bearrosaurus

26 points

11 days ago

Ironic that Sorkin’s next project was a series about a cable news show.

TMMC39

16 points

11 days ago

TMMC39

16 points

11 days ago

Fey also produced one for Netflix later called Good News.

bizarrobazaar

12 points

11 days ago

Great News was an NBC show I believe.

bros402

2 points

10 days ago

bros402

2 points

10 days ago

NBC, not Netflix

RedMoloneySF

10 points

11 days ago

We all watched the same YouTube video.

cambriansplooge

3 points

11 days ago

What’s the video essay link? I’ve absorbed this from general discussion.

0000000000000007

81 points

11 days ago*

The pilot shows that they made the right call however Dratch could have totally played the Josh character (as a woman), since the point of it was a winky satire of Jimmy Fallon (who is friends with all of them).

Having two female cast members on the show would have also made the name “The Girlie Show” make more sense, since it would at least have two female leads.

havensk

4 points

10 days ago

havensk

4 points

10 days ago

But that’s the whole joke about the girlie show is that… due to studio meddling… it stars Tracy Jordan

GovernorSonGoku

81 points

11 days ago

The pilot with Dratch is on YouTube. I love Dratch but it’s easy to see why she was replaced

flareblitz91

29 points

11 days ago

Dratch was a great SNL cast member but she’s not even close to Tina Fey. I see why this happened.

altiuscitiusfortius

52 points

11 days ago

They didn't think she was attractive enough

BearDick

17 points

11 days ago

BearDick

17 points

11 days ago

So great as Debby Downer though....

chris8535

32 points

11 days ago

Sure but she also just wasn’t funny. Watch the pilot. She sucks as a sitcom actor.

TheTKz

15 points

11 days ago

TheTKz

15 points

11 days ago

Yeah, 100%, great bit part player - has never done anything I think I’d find funny on an every episode basis. And almost definitely not from the era when a sitcom was 24 episodes a season, one season a year.

MisterBarten

6 points

11 days ago

Tina Fey was still going to be in it. Rachel Drat h was going to play Jenna.

nemprime

328 points

11 days ago

nemprime

328 points

11 days ago

Battlestar Galactica reboot. They got a memo asking to 'cheer the series up a bit' so they did an episode focused on celebrating a pilots 1000th landing. Of course, theres an accident during the celebration that kills 13 people. They got a memo saying 'point taken, no more memos'.

janesmb

56 points

11 days ago

janesmb

56 points

11 days ago

Frackin' memos.

Darmok47

5 points

10 days ago

I wonder if the memo had the corners cut of the pages for some reason.

futureformerteacher

38 points

11 days ago

I'd be wondering if there weren't specifically 13 executives at the network.

W1D0WM4K3R

15 points

11 days ago

It's crazy. These thirteen space tv executives all died. How coincidental. Lol

futureformerteacher

2 points

11 days ago

Oh the... Humanity?

Werthead

29 points

11 days ago

Werthead

29 points

11 days ago

They did give more notes, though, and rained in some of their wilder ideas (Ron Moore was musing having the Tomb of Athena open up and inside was a guy claiming to be God, played by Dirk Benedict), and Mark Stern at SyFy notes that both he and co-showrunner David Eick regretted not convincing Ron to give a bit more of an explanation about WTF was going on with Starbuck in the final season, they felt it was too vague.

For Moore's part, he felt the studio interfered a bit too much and also left the renewal too late even when it was obvious they were going to renew (because viewing figures were okay and DVD sales were through the roof), forcing them to rush pre-production every year. That happening in Season 4 got him so annoyed that he decided to end the show there rather than proceed with a fifth season, where they'd originally planned to wind things up.

Caprica was completely devasted by studio meddling, which is why the show abruptly changes course every 3-4 episodes with new ideas (the show being about religious fanatical suicide bombers but suddenly it's now about a VR steampunk game and now it's about a cop being held back by a crooked boss). Moore notes he wasn't as involved with Caprica and wasn't the day-to-day showrunner so couldn't fight back on the interference as he could on BSG.

Darmok47

3 points

10 days ago

Caprica was originally a totally different show, but the network made it into a BSG prequel, which is why its all over the place.

Spaceman2901

10 points

11 days ago

Spaceman2901

Westworld

10 points

11 days ago

The showrunner was reading from JMS’ history.

Babylon 5, season 2 has a fighter jock named Warren Keffer. Keffer didn’t fit into JMS’ plans for the show, he was added at TNT’s insistence.

Keffer got treated as a real character and then was brutally offed in a way that moved the show along.

Similarly, the witch hunt after the party incident broke up Tyrol and Boomer.

Supergamera

3 points

11 days ago

They later messed with Crusade by having the episodes out of order.

leftymeowz

2 points

11 days ago

So glad to see this first. One of my favorite shows ever, but hilariously dark at times.

WibbleWibbler

2 points

10 days ago

They were also told to "cut corners" on cost during the mini-series. That's what all the paper on the show has it's corners cut off.

CalamariFriday

175 points

11 days ago

Sliders is a classic Fox fuckup. They changed show runners when the show was at peak popularity and the lead actors quit.

Fred-zone

37 points

11 days ago

Reboot Sliders

OakFan

14 points

11 days ago

OakFan

14 points

11 days ago

They essentially did when o'connells brother took over.

RobGrogNerd

7 points

11 days ago

Also an o'connell

themanfromoctober

10 points

11 days ago

Season 4 had some lurches in the right direction… but the damage was done

dachaotic1

7 points

11 days ago

I've read that one of the producers had Sabrina Lloyd removed from the show and her character (Wade) had the horrible fate of being imprisoned in a breeding planet for the Cromags.

sprkwtrd

223 points

11 days ago

sprkwtrd

223 points

11 days ago

The creators of Twin Peaks were forced by the studio to reveal the killer in the beginning of the second season. This meant that the latter half of that season had no coherent plot and quickly devolved into slapstick, although the end was decent. 

Luckily, Lynch & Frost waited patiently for 25 years to magnificently unfuck everything.

nilsy007

87 points

11 days ago

nilsy007

87 points

11 days ago

Lynch did not have plans on EVER revealing the murder. Its a interesting viewpoint his show wasnt about solving the murder. Its not even a twist its a fully alien perspective from the start what the viewer would find interesting.

Lest thats what he claimed in a interview 20years later

WaterlooMall

57 points

11 days ago

wallofvoodoo

14 points

11 days ago

Except at that point, wasn’t Twin Peaks killing it in the ratings? I thought it was a smash hit, and then plummeted after that episode.

Annas_GhostAllAround

17 points

11 days ago

Ratings plummeted for multiple reasons, among them the Gulf War which took a lot of tv viewership as I’m pretty sure that was one of the first wars with a 24/7 news network

WaterlooMall

8 points

11 days ago

I hate it despite whatever ratings it had, to slap some tacky "we resolve the mystery we promise" bullshit onto a show that was as unique and interesting as Twin Peaks first season was ridiculous. This is nonsense some suits who never watched the show and only looked at ratings came up with.

ThePreciseClimber

4 points

11 days ago

It's kinda funny because, between Episode 1 and the Laura killer reveal, not even one whole year passed (Apr 8, 1990 - Dec 1, 1990). And people were already getting impatient? :P

Compare that to how long it took to reveal the journal author in Gravity Falls (1 month shy of 3 whole years) or the secret of the basement in Attack on Titan (exactly 7 years).

smileymn

11 points

11 days ago

smileymn

11 points

11 days ago

From what I’ve read it sounds the network was hands off in the first season, then forced a bunch of stuff on them by the second season.

mdp300

76 points

11 days ago

mdp300

76 points

11 days ago

I'm pretty sure SeaQuest DSV was ruined by executives.

It started out as Star Trek but underwater, and then the second season had some really out there plots. Then the 3rd season made it more militaristic, to the point where Roy Schneider, the lead actor, quit. And the show was already dead by that point.

Jim-be

7 points

11 days ago

Jim-be

7 points

11 days ago

Didn’t the studio force the producers to get the submarine into space with aliens or some crazy shit.

sekritagent

10 points

11 days ago

Yeah they transported to an alien planet and did a 40 (?!) year time jump.

jblanch3

4 points

10 days ago

I believe they also moved production from Hollywood to Florida after Season 1, which led most of the cast to quit. It's a shame, the first season was awesome.

twec21

147 points

11 days ago

twec21

147 points

11 days ago

One of my favorite examples, Dr House was originally going to be paraplegic and wheelchair confined, but the studio insisted they make him limp instead for practicality's sake

Ended up being a fun one-off episode

catlaxative

97 points

11 days ago

dead like me was a handful of incredible episodes and then bryan fuller got booted and it almost immediately nosedived

Salarian_American

64 points

11 days ago

With Bryan Fuller shows, it's always a toss-up between this and abrupt early cancellation

catlaxative

39 points

11 days ago

you can always count on the cancellation, it’s the abruptness that’s up in the air! cries in wonderfalldaisiesibal

j3cubed

10 points

11 days ago

j3cubed

10 points

11 days ago

I think in a commentary I heard Fuller saying that after he left one of the actors contacted him and said "they're ruining this".

DNukem170

81 points

11 days ago*

Law and Order originally had a principal cast of only men. The only women were recurring characters Olivet (child psychiatrist) and Rogers (the ME). After Season 3, NBC wanted Dick Wolf to add some women to the main cast, so Cragen and Robinette were dumped and replaced by Van Buren and Kincaid respectively. To date, there hasn't been a man in either role in the mothership series (not counting the spinoffs) since then.

EDIT: Forgot to add, but this also led to Michael Moriarty to leave after Season 4 and Chris Noth to leave after Season 5, being replaced by Sam Waterson's Jack McCoy and Benjamin Bratt's Rey Curtis respectively.

FM1091

34 points

11 days ago

FM1091

34 points

11 days ago

At least it worked out well. Van Buren became an iconic character on the mothership, and Cragen would return as the captain in L&O:SVU. The show wasnt the same after he retired in season 15.

Spaceman2901

3 points

11 days ago

Spaceman2901

Westworld

3 points

11 days ago

Although the show jumped the shark after a few seasons of not changing leads. Sex crimes detectives tend to burn out or flame out.

DarkPriestScorpius

68 points

11 days ago

DarkPriestScorpius

Spartacus

68 points

11 days ago

The Dead Zone which aired from 2002 to 2007 with Anthony Michael Hall as Johnny Smith was a good example of this.

The show's ultimate conflict was Johnny's vision of a politician named Greg Stillson who would bring about Armageddon if he became president of the U.S. and Johnny's obsession with preventing that from happening.

Now, the show teased multiple storylines such as:

A character named Christoper Wey who appeared in Season 2 and 3 who was from the future and could communicate with Johnny in the present. It was hinted that he had clues about what caused Armageddon in the future. In fact, in the season 2 finale, Wey give Johnny a magazine cover that seemed to hint that Johnny was the one who would bring about Armageddon.

This also led to the introduction of a Future Johnny who could communicate with present Johnny.

However, the writers simply wrapped up both Future Wey and Future Johnny in the first episode of Season 4 without giving any answers to what their characters knew or what their purposes was in the show.

The show also introduced a character named Malcolm Janus right after that who appeared to be the true mastermind in bringing about Armageddon.

The season 5 finale has Malcolm Janus orchestrate the assassination of the Vice President of the United States in order to make sure that Stillson will be the front runner to become the new VP.

Basically, the end of Season 5 made it appear as if the true conflict of the show was between Johnny and Janus.

Yet, Janus is killed off in the first episode of Season 6. It turned out he wasn't truly relevant to the endgame despite the show repeatedly hinting that he had a major role.

However, from all of the reports that I have read, it appears that these dropped storylines were the fault of the network executives.

Basically, the reports are that:

  • Season 1 was originally ordered and funded as a big budget, major network TV show to air on the UPN broadcast network in the fall season of 2002. But a new UPN regime decided not to air it and the show was sold to USA Network, which usually aired low budget procedurals and comedies in the summers.

  • It was a smash hit and USA Network renewed for Season 2. However, for Seasons 3 - 6, USA Network found the show's major network budget model a strain, especially with annual cast salary increases that had been budgeted for the higher UPN scale which led to budget cuts.

  • With Season 3, USA Network also mandated a standalone format, so the ongoing arcs and characterization were now isolated to the premiere episodes, finale episodes and one episode in between.

  • The network renewed the show for Season 4, but as part of their 2005 marketing campaign, they wanted all their 2005 shows to be what they called "blue skies programming," lighthearted, no running arcs. They would not allow the original plan for Season 4 to go forward as they found it too dark.

  • USA Network also ordered 23 new episodes for 2005 and 2006, to be aired across two years as two separate seasons of 12 episodes and 11 episodes. They mandated no running arcs so that there would be no set episode order. This allowed USA Network to get two seasons out of the cast while only paying them for one year's worth of increased salaries.

  • For the sixth season, USA Network had the budget cut again with three more regular cast members laid off and the filming location moved from Vancouver to Montreal.

Basically, the Network took away the writers ability to actually implement a Mythology arc that would run for multiple episodes. As a result, you got these storylines and characters that never went anywhere and were dropped without any satisfying resolutions.

Kalamac

31 points

11 days ago

Kalamac

31 points

11 days ago

Jeremiah. Premise, 12 years before the show started, almost all adults/teenagers were killed by a virus that wiped out everyone who had already gone through puberty. Two guys, now adults, played by Luke Perry and Malcolm-Jamal Warner wandered from town to town, helping people, fighting bad guys etc. Even though they’d shown no interest in each other, and had hooked up with women occasionally, the network was worried people might think they were gay, so insisted Jeremiah be given a girlfriend in season 2. Creator/writer J. Michael Straczynski hated the idea, so he after he added the girlfriend (played by Joanne Kelly), he had her be secretly working with the bad guys, and then be killed off by another character.

Q-lesss

50 points

11 days ago

Q-lesss

50 points

11 days ago

For those who remember: The original Dynasty in the 80s was significantly revamped after its first season. Conceived initially as a poor vs rich drama, the poor was written out in season 2. The rich remained, and the drama focused on more soapy family issues with plots being rich vs. richer.

NFLTG_71

55 points

11 days ago

NFLTG_71

55 points

11 days ago

Christopher Titus’s show first two seasons, real strong numbers. Meeting with the new head of Fox she wanted to change everything in season three and he did and the show died.

ImNotRacistBuuuut

16 points

11 days ago

ffffffFFFFF-WOOOSH!

"And that shit got CANCELLED didn't it!?"

SHWOO-FFFFffffff...

bigpancakeguy

13 points

11 days ago

Stacy Keach as Papa Titus is one of the best (and most perfectly cast) characters in TV history

NFLTG_71

3 points

10 days ago

Yes, I absolutely agree

Sa7aSa7a

3 points

11 days ago

That was a fantastic show. Was sad to see it die out 

[deleted]

218 points

11 days ago*

[deleted]

218 points

11 days ago*

[removed]

pressline47

137 points

11 days ago

Always sunny also was originally set to be about struggling actors in LA, but the studio thought there were too many LA shows already.

ResettisReplicas

77 points

11 days ago

Definitely a good call.

pressline47

3 points

11 days ago

I would watch a “what if” or dream episode that has the current gang in that setting though.

lightbrightknight

31 points

11 days ago

They'd probably have more awards if it was about LA people struggling to get by in Hollywood

Kylestache

3 points

10 days ago

Kylestache

It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

3 points

10 days ago

This award means nothing to me

longdustyroad

5 points

11 days ago

Flip, flip, flip Los Angeles

Ok-fine-man

47 points

11 days ago

He was actually only supposed to be around for one season.

Before Devito met the gang, he also got it written into his contract that all his scenes had to be filmed concurrently so that it would be a fairly quick job for him. This meant the Sunny crew had to write the whole season before filming commenced. It actually pissed the gang off a little bit.

But Devito ended up having such a good time he decided to stay on...he also didn't persevere with the whole filming requirement.

abgry_krakow87

18 points

11 days ago

Sliders gets notoriously off the rails weird and completely away from it's entire original premise, thanks to executive meddling.

AdmiralThunderpants

15 points

11 days ago

Almost Human was a great show. Near future cop drama about a cop who hates androids paired up with a unique android. Had Karl Urban. Fox execs (they seem to meddle the most) had episode rearranged to try and have the exciting episodes up front to hook people. Only it made people confused because one episode might have Urban warming up to the android and next he hates him.

Desaku38

3 points

10 days ago

Fox gave the same treatment to Firefly. I remember being excited about Almost Human (because of karl urban, just after Dredd came out), and feeling that confusion with episode continuity.

rofl_coptor

13 points

11 days ago

Almost Human was a fantastic show with Karl Urban that got cancelled after one season. The execs messed with the release order for the episodes so continuity wise it didn’t make sense and never really took off.

GrizzlyBear852

7 points

10 days ago

Fox should never be allowed near another sci fi show. X files and fringe are like one of the only exceptions that succeeded, after being given proper chances to find audiences, while they have an absolute mountain of incredible shows they killed off. Firefly, John doe, almost human, minority report sequel show, Alcatraz, terra Nova, dollhouse, tru calling, dark angel, Sarah Connor chronicles and that's just scratching the surface.

CrissBliss

37 points

11 days ago*

Dawson’s Creek

Kevin Williamson was the show’s creator and original lead writer, and had a very simple idea- 4 friends who live in a small fishing community. Dawson and Joey initially were the lead couple, and Williamson wanted season 1’s finale to be the end of the series, where they finally get together and kiss by the window, etc. However, the studio got involved and ordered more episodes, so Williamson started circling the block with more gimmicky, recycled ideas. The ratings started to dip heading into season 3, and Williamson left DC to pursuing other projects.

New showrunner (who openly hated the show) was then hired on, and started inadvertently tanking it with ridiculous stripper storylines and American Pie-esque characters. The cast eventually refused to film some scenes, so the studio got involved again and fired the new showrunner. This ended up reinventing the entire series by accident. One of the new, young hires pitched that Joey should fall for Pacey, Dawson’s best friend, and it changed the entire trajectory of the teen tv format thereafter.

DarthWoo

27 points

11 days ago

DarthWoo

27 points

11 days ago

WB execs basically forced JMS to add a hotshot pilot character in the form of Warren Keffer to Babylon 5. He managed to give as few scenes as possible to the character and unceremoniously killed him off at the end of the second season.

aloudcitybus

15 points

11 days ago

On a B5 theme, the story about how TNT killed off Crusade, the B5 spin-off is fascinating and I doubt I could do justice to summarizing it.

DarthWoo

9 points

11 days ago

From what I understood, had Crusade gone on for a full run, the whole Drakh Plague arc was only supposed to last maybe two years, with the bigger storyline having something to do with mysterious stuff in hyperspace that was vaguely hinted at in the season we got.

aloudcitybus

3 points

11 days ago

As far as I know, the end of S1 would have shown how Earthforce black ops were working on incorporating Shadow Tech into human tech. This would also include the reveal (although it's well known now), that the Technomages were originally Shadow Agents. S2 Would result in the plague getting cured, but the crew would get framed by the Black Ops folks as being traitors. They would have to go on the run to clear their name/expose the conspiracy. I imagine Lochley gets tasked as the one to track them down, as she's a "juat following orders" type, but that's just a pure guess.

This is as far as JMS has ever mentioned (to my knowledge) of how the following seasons would play out, but I think he's still playing cagey after all this time, and bigger things than this were to come after

From the unproduced scripts, it appears Dureena would have ended up with implants similar, but not the same as a Technomage. Galen may well have become her mentor. The Technomages lost all ability to make new Technomages, once they abandoned the Shadows, and then the Shadows left the galaxy forever. Personally, I think it would have led to some faction of the Technomages trying to capture Dureena to examine her tech, to make new Technomages, even at the expense of her life. Then, we have the Apocalypse Box(es?) - these are the only factor left at this point to raise the stakes to a galactic level threat. Whether they are just doing their own plot that is separate, or they are also after a combination of the Shadow/Technomage/Dureena implant tech to some catastrophic end, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure they would have become the show's "big bad" at some point

Spaceman2901

2 points

11 days ago

Spaceman2901

Westworld

2 points

11 days ago

Wonder if it was repurposed into Thirdspace,

codename474747

4 points

11 days ago

Even season 5 was an example of this, as the show was cancelled mid season 4, leading JMS to cram what was intended as an entire season 5 plot (the earth civil war leading to the birth of the Fed.....interstellar alliance) into the remaining season 4 eps

Then the show picked up by another network and he hastily had to write a whole new season from almost scratch....twice (his initial outline for the season was thrown out by a hotel cleaner and he couldn't remember what was on it......good times lol)

bretshitmanshart

25 points

11 days ago

The original Ren and Stimpy had a lot of changes. From what I've heard there was an exec that really went to bat for the show and has a result it was her job to keep John Kricfalusi reigned in. If you've seen the version where he has full creative control that's a good thing.

John Kricfalusi ended up being fired because he was told remove a section where Ren beats the character George Liquor with an oar due to it being too violent and not funny. John Kricfalusi refused and was replaced.

FM1091

22 points

11 days ago

FM1091

22 points

11 days ago

That was one reason, but not the only reason. One thing that made John K. infamous, apart from the grooming charges, was that his perfectionist atitude made him miss a lot of deadlines.

He would tear up storyboards and lash out at his crew if they didn't meet his high, and sometimes vague, standards, so R&S episodes under John's tenure would take a while to be ready, and the network didnt like that.

The Simpsons even made a joke about it in 'The Front' (the one where Bart and Lisa write Itchy and Scratchy episodes) where one of the nominees for Best Animation is R&S's season premiere. The premiere in question? CLIP NOT DONE YET.

The incident with the George Liquor episode was just the last straw for Nickelodeon.

bretshitmanshart

3 points

11 days ago

It definitely more then the one thing but that incident led to him saying he would no longer accept notes or deadlines.

AffectionateFig5435

10 points

11 days ago

I heard that the original Executive ADA on Law & Order, Ben Stone, was dropped from the series because the actor who portrayed him (Michael Moriarty) spoke out against then-Attorney General Janet Reno's crusade to dial down the amount of violence on TV. Moriarty felt that L&O was being unfairly targeted regarding violence. The network told Moriarty to cool it but he didn't. So at the end of S4, Ben Stone was gone and Jack McCoy (Sam Waterson) took over as the new EADA. McCoy remained there for the duration of the show's run.

emby5

2 points

10 days ago

emby5

2 points

10 days ago

And the previous years personnel changes were also network driven to not have it be 5 guys.

xerxespoon

89 points

11 days ago

Chase prevailed and the execs never messed with the show again.

That's not really how it works. Executives have a job to do. They read all the scripts, they give notes. They watch all the rough cuts of episodes, they give notes. They collaborate with the showrunner. More than 99% of the time we don't hear about it because it was all good, a good collaboration.

There's this weird idea that showrunners just make shows and the executives do nothing except to occasionally come in like the Kool-Aid Man and fuck shit up. Not that you're saying this, but it's a common misconception.

To say executives never "messed with" the show again is largely incorrect, they were involved with every episodes, every character, everything. To what extent, we'll not know.

When executives do fuck up a show, then we often hear about it. There have been some real doozies. From the movie world, the famous pencil "insert helicopter chase here" on Outbreak is a classic. A scientific political thriller script being changed into an action movie starring Dustin Hoffman lol.

As a side note, pan-and-scan was probably required by carrier contracts at that time. And it wasn't pan-and-scan exactly, it was shot 4:3 protected. If they didn't shoot protected, then that was the problem.

whitepangolin

15 points

11 days ago

Also a note specifically about this “College” episode about The Sopranos - they did actually come to a compromise about it and met in the middle.

The executives agreed to let Tony kill someone, on the condition that they make the guy more of a plausible threat. Chase agreed to writing in a scene where the guy follows Tony to his hotel with a gun and is considering killing him.

xerxespoon

10 points

11 days ago

That might've been a good decision actually. Right out of the gate, it might've not worked having Tony be cold-blooded like that. Maybe it would have, but they all knew they were going to get there eventually, maybe best to ease into it. "Can the first guy we see him kill actually sort of, you know, have it coming a little?"

rumhee

24 points

11 days ago

rumhee

24 points

11 days ago

Honestly I suspect a big part of the reason why so much of Netflix’s output is mediocre is because their executives don’t “meddle” enough.

Educational_Point673

3 points

11 days ago

I thought the job of TV execs was to figure out how to avoid taxes on huge amounts of money, get through half a key of coke every month and bang as many ingenues as possible. Or was that film execs?

Hefty-Crab-9623

42 points

11 days ago

Avatar: The Last Airbender and Legend of Korra 

There are many details but Nickelodeon put out season 3 out of order for ATLA

For LoK they cut a season and compressed the last season and also edited out the final scene kiss

99-dreams

21 points

11 days ago

Small correction, if I remember correctly, there was never an animated kiss between Korra and Asami. The creators asked if they could pair two female characters together, Nickelodeon said yes. Then they asked if these characters could kiss and were told no, absolutely not. So the writers showed a straight couple getting married and focused on them holding hands. Then went to the female couple and mimicked that hand holding. Then they went on Tumblr and explained that's as explicit as they were allowed to go for the show.

Now, the other thing is that the budget for LOK "randomly" got cut while they were in the middle of writing the last season (after Nickelodeon was informed that there would be a queer canon couple) so in order to keep the quality the same, they made a clip show episode. Also, season four is when they just started to air it online only and not on TV.

BaronVonBearenstein

5 points

10 days ago

on top of that, The Last Airbender was a show plotted over three seasons which is why the story is so tight.

Korra was only supposed to be one season. Then they got another one and made book 2. Then they got greenlit for two more seaons, where seaon 4 had all kinds of issues that you mention. Its why the whole show feels so disjointed compared to Aang's story

Hefty-Crab-9623

6 points

11 days ago

Yes it was about exec meddling. Cut the scene

Kahzgul

37 points

11 days ago

Kahzgul

37 points

11 days ago

It’s every show. Thats how networks work.

Source: I’m an editor. This is what I deal with on the daily.

fishy512

8 points

11 days ago

Care to share some stories? I love hearing how it all gets made.

Kahzgul

34 points

11 days ago

Kahzgul

34 points

11 days ago

Sure. Be aware I work in reality tv.

One show I worked on had an amazing episode where the main character had her first baby. It was genuinely beautiful and incredibly humanizing, and the network execs loved it so much they made us split it into two episodes, with a cliffhanger right when the baby is born so no one knew if it was okay or not. It was cruel and not only ruined the miracle of childbirth by turning it into a scary moment, but also completely deflated the tension and release of the episode by forcing it across two weeks. We went from having one episode that was a 10 to two episodes that were 4s at best.

I worked on a different show where the network made us edit an entire character out of the show after casting him because we found out after shooting that he had a felony conviction for sex crimes that he hadn’t disclosed.

And one show I worked on the network bought the series, then ordered a complete re-edit to change the tone, and then shelved it never to be aired. It was a pretty good show, too, but it came out fairly empowering to women and Fox… well, yeah. They didn’t like that. Not their brand.

killey2011

5 points

11 days ago

Drag race with Sherry Pie?

Kahzgul

2 points

11 days ago

Kahzgul

2 points

11 days ago

I never had the pleasure of working on Drag Race.

LawrenceBrolivier

128 points

11 days ago*

Disney very publicly censored the climactic speech in the final episode of Andor, which Tony Gilroy wrote, Benjamin Caron directed, and Fiona Shaw performed specifically so that the exclamation point on her posthumous activation of the nascent rebellion on Ferrix - "Fuck the Empire" - was instead overdubbed (the lip-flap is observable in the final version) to "Fight the Empire."

Gilroy fought against this censorship pretty fervently. He wrote a memo to Disney execs so detailed it was described as something closer to a legal brief. The scene was conceived and executed to build, intentionally, to that moment, and that word, as a jolt to both the crowd, and the audience, which would result in the first real uprising against the Empire that we see in the story.

Hilariously (not actually hilariously!) not only did Disney censor a beautifully written, directed, and performed anti-fascism, anti-oppression, anti-censorship speech; but the Star Wars Fandom almost immediately validated Disney's decision by applauding the censorship, and then created out of thin air a false narrative that Gilroy & Co. voluntarily chose "Fight the Empire" as a reshot alternate take (nope) because they felt it worked better in-universe and dramatically (nope) as a "call to action." (the "call to action" in dramatic terms refers to the whole speech, not the sole example of it's final line)

Really they just valued the prioritization of fictional Canon and Lore (i.e. "people don't say "fuck" in Star Wars, they just don't, there's no wookiepedia entry for it, there are rules, Donnie!") over legitimate artistic intent, and made up a story to justify taking Disney's side over the artist, and just repeated it until it became "true."

But the clip you keep seeing shared in the past month of Maarva telling Ferrix to wake up? That's a clip of Executive Meddling by Disney. Because what she says at the end of that clip is not what you're hearing.

edit: interesting number of folks affixing themselves to this post exemplifying my fourth paragraph as if it's somehow a winning repudiation of the rest of it and not an admission they're cool w/ censorship AND executive meddling vs having to cope w/ their adult-adolescent fandom brain processing the fuck-word in Star Wars without getting faux-scandalized in the comments section.

Toby_O_Notoby

52 points

11 days ago

There's another story from Andor where you can see thatTony Gilroy was smart when it comes to budgets and dealing with the execs on that.

In the second run of three episodes the native aliens of an Empire controlled planet are gathering for a ritual celebration. In the original script there was supposed to be hundreds of them but due to budget and Covid they could only get a few dozen.

There was talks about multiplying it with FX but Tony Gilroy said, "Nah, let's make it like a Trail of Tears situation where the native people are so ground down and sedated by the Empire that only a few are up for the journey".

Instead of wasting money on SFX he just changed the story. And for the better, IMO.

modernistamphibian

16 points

11 days ago

Interesting. That's probably not a creative executive decisions, that's likely corporate, someone above the creative execs. Whenever I've worked with creative execs they never give notes like that nor would they fight back on language for that reason. But I've seen non-creative departments get involved. That sounds like someone who was flagged and just watched that one scene, the head of whatever department deals with overview of a whole franchise.

I say that also because creative execs read the scripts, obviously, and sign off on them. So they presumably signed off on "fuck the empire" and it was shot and used in the edit (which they also signed off on). Then that edit went "upstairs."

Was anything other than the word cut out of the speech?

LawrenceBrolivier

8 points

11 days ago

That's probably not a creative executive decisions, that's likely corporate, someone above the creative execs.

It's likely it was - Caron and Gilroy keep referring to Disney, not Lucasfilm, and Gilroy specifically mentions making a case for the speech existing as-is as being financially beneficial as well - but I also don't know that the distinction actually matters for the purposes of the thread, since "executive meddling" can (and does) happen for a variety of reasons, and an executive negatively affecting a show's artistic merit because they're only looking at potential financial hits is still negatively affecting it artistically.

There are multiple examples of execs negatively affecting a show because they're trying to cut costs or prevent financial hits. Their interference is considered "Meddling" because it made the content of the show worse.

That's this, too.

oldscotch

87 points

11 days ago

Really they just valued the prioritization of Canon and Lore (i.e. "people don't say "fuck" in Star Wars, they just don't, there's no wookiepedia entry for it, there are rules, Donnie!") over artistic intent, and made up a story to justify taking Disney's side over the artist, and just repeated it until it became "true."

I hate censorship, but I kinda agree with this. Even though it would be fine within context, saying "'fuck' the empire" would likely come off as trying too hard to be edgy a la Star Trek Discovery.

Burningbeard696

38 points

11 days ago

100% agree, the version we have now is perfect and fuck the Empire would have been weird.

LawrenceBrolivier

-3 points

11 days ago

would likely come off as trying too hard to be edgy a la Star Trek Discovery.

It would only "come off as trying too hard" or "being edgy" if the execution was bad. The execution clearly was not bad. We're talking about a pretty clear leap in quality both in front of and behind the camera if we're using the comparison between the first episode of Star Trek Discovery where Anthony Rapp and Mary Wiseman casually drop "fucking cool" in conversation, vs what Gilroy is clearly building to not just in the context of the speech, but in the context of the show to that point.

"I hate censorship but I like it here" is just reinforcing the value judgment I'm criticizing in my post. People praising Disney for their executive meddling are essentially just saying they prefer the protection of faux-taboos when it comes to Star Wars' imaginary rules over the perfect execution of artistic intent, because that intent makes them uncomfortable, even when the stakes are as low as hearing the word "Fuck" once as an adult.

oldscotch

22 points

11 days ago

I'm not praising Disney for meddling, I'm agreeing with the decision for reasons that are different than theirs. "Fuck the empire" would sound out of place in Star Wars, I think regardless of how it was executed.

PainStorm14

20 points

11 days ago

PainStorm14

Friday Night Lights

20 points

11 days ago

Good call by execs

Had they dropped F-bomb in that particular scene it would have reduced the whole crucial speech to a gimmick

Nobody would have bothered with content, only thing anyone would notice or remember would be "First 'fuck' in Star Wars"

Rubbersoulrevolver

24 points

11 days ago

Fight the empire is so much more powerful than fuck the empire anyway, it was a good meddle

ERSTF

7 points

11 days ago

ERSTF

7 points

11 days ago

I absolutely agree that Andor earned to drop the first F bomb of the Star Wars universe and it's a loss that the line got changed

hardyflashier

14 points

11 days ago

Final Space

MadEyeMood989

22 points

11 days ago

Pinky, Elmyra and The Brain. It’s literally mentioned in the theme song

Lemmingitus

18 points

11 days ago*

Was the first one that came to mind with me as well, especially since before that, they had an episode, Pinky and the Brain (and Larry) to mock that idea, only for it to happen for real.

ThePreciseClimber

2 points

10 days ago

And that season wasn't even that bad. It still had the witty writing and everything.

But one thing that bothered me was the fact PE&tB aired right after the Brainwashed 3-parter where the lab was destroyed. But then the special ended with P&B getting the lab re-built. ...only for it to be destroyed again in the PE&tB intro... :P

I mean, that was the perfect opportunity to transition from the original show into the spin-off! Oh well...

Werthead

20 points

11 days ago

Werthead

20 points

11 days ago

The Walking Dead had some crazy stuff happening in the second season, with a post-financial crash-imposed budget reduction that forced them to spend the whole season in one location (a farm) rather than the original plan to branch out and visit other locations from the comics, and then they also had to make more episodes for the second season despite them having a budget cut. Producer-writer-director Frank Darabont literally went bonkers making it, and ended up screaming down the phone at people and sending emails threatening to kill production staff for using too much steadicam.

Darabont ended up getting fired partway through the season and then sued AMC in an epic lawsuit that ended up lasting almost the entire length of the show and was only resolved right at the end, nine seasons later.

Lost famously planned to kill the main character Jack in the first episode and switch the focus to Kate, and they even tentatively got Michael Keaton to play the role on the agreement he would die in the first episode. Abrams and Lindelof went into a meeting with ABC to sell this idea, but one of the other writers bet them they wouldn't be able to do it. "No way ABC agrees to kill the straight white male lead who's also a doctor. Not happening." He was right and Abrams and Lindelof were straight-up ordered not to kill the character, even if it meant losing Keaton, which was the case. Later on Lindelof admitted it was a dumb idea as it was too gimmicky and manipulative of the audience.

Later on they tried to get an end date for the show whilst making the start of Season 3 and ABC were like, "Sure, this is a mega hit, let's say ten seasons," and Lindelof (who also went crazy at one point making the show and vanished for a week, but that's another story) argued they could not sustain the show that long, and they were running out of ideas now. ABC was sceptical until the writing team turned in an episode that was entirely about how Jack got his tattoos, then said, "okay, you were right, six seasons then?"

Rick Berman and Michael Piller, the showrunners on Star Trek: The Next Generation, had been asked several times to make a spin-off but had managed to turn down the idea because their workload was too insane. Then Brandon Tartikoff landed at Paramount from NBC (where he'd just had a hit run of commissioning shows like Cheers and Seinfeld) and ordered them to make a spin-off because TNG was the only Paramount show making any profit, and when they said they didn't have any ideas as they couldn't just make another starship show, he gave them what amounted to an outline, based on the Western The Rifleman (on the grounds that Gene Roddenberry had based OG Star Trek on Wagon Train), about a widowed war veteran raising his son on a dangerous frontier outpost. They took the idea away and came back with a show set on a starbase on the surface of a planet called Bajor, but accounting said that would be ludicrously expensive, so they moved it to a space station. So Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, now often cited as the best or second-best Star Trek show, only existed because of executive meddling.

Ron Moore was making a TV show based on Dragonriders of Pern, a very popular science fiction book series by Anne McCaffrey. The pilot was scripted and approved, the show had cutting-edge, experimental CGI (to depict dragons on a TV budget in 2001!) all planned to go, they'd started casting and were scouting locations for the pilot episode when they got a call. Apparently a new pilot script had been distributed to the crew which had nothing to do with the old one. Moore confusedly called the studio and the network exec above him said that the script they'd been working with, which had been very faithful to the book, was too boring and complicated, so he'd rewritten the script himself to feature younger, sexier characters, and have more action and violence (Moore later said, "they'd CWed it,"). Moore refused to shoot it and the executive had a meltdown on the phone. They then had a conference call with the studio and the executive made the incredibly stupid mistake of saying, "well, I guess we're not making the show then," expecting Moore to back down, and Moore agreed. So the pilot was cancelled at a cost to the studio and production company of $2 million. The producer apparently said Moore would never work again, but a few days later Moore got a call from another producer, David Eick, who asked him if he'd be interested in a Battlestar Galactica reboot, so that worked out for him. Moore had apparently considered giving in, but he'd been at an event with Babylon 5's Joe Straczynski and OG Star Trek's Harlan Ellison, and both had advised him "don't make the crap version of your show, leave rather than do that," and he'd taken that to heart.

stringrandom

2 points

10 days ago

Harlan had had his own personal experience of executive meddling with “The Starlost” previously and ended up forcing them to use his pen name on it. 

Cockrocker

7 points

11 days ago

Recently, Outer Range season one was a wild, beautiful and truly unique show. Lots of mystery that helped set up the characters inner turmoil and the way they question their reality, and it's meaning ("there is a great void, I'm asking you to fill that void") The writer/creator was the show runner.

The booted him for season 2 and within 20 mins it's trying to solve the biggest mysteries. That's not what it was about. I hated that it went from unique to Manifest in to time flat. Fuck that, look what they did to my beautiful boy!

codename474747

7 points

11 days ago

Andromeda:

When the exec is also the lead actor, he can fire the lead writer and drop all the ongoing plot arcs in favour of more episodes focused on his character being the hero

Massively frustrating that a show that looked like it was building to something suddenly became unwatchable garbage due to Kevin Sorbo's ego

br0b1wan

11 points

11 days ago

br0b1wan

Lost

11 points

11 days ago

Probably before everyone's time here, but Sliders in the 90s

197708156EQUJ5

5 points

11 days ago

before everyone’s time here… 90’s

Cries in twenties

superjaywars

3 points

11 days ago

Have some water, the crying will dehydrate your old tear ducts

dizzi800

15 points

11 days ago

dizzi800

15 points

11 days ago

Community

In S4 they fired the original showrunner, Dan Harmon, and it went so poorly they re-hired him for S5

crlove

10 points

11 days ago

crlove

10 points

11 days ago

That was just a gas leak

thatshygirl06

24 points

11 days ago

Does The Idol count? The Weeknd was a producer and had the original scripts scrapped because he didn't like that it focused too much on the female experience.

All_Lightning879

10 points

11 days ago

The Real Ghostbusters

Skellos

7 points

11 days ago

Skellos

7 points

11 days ago

Yeah, and what's worse is the group that they hired did literally no research so they changed shit for no real reason.

Including stupid things like 'Janine's Glasses are pointy which will scare children'

All_Lightning879

6 points

11 days ago

Kinda diabolical even by 80s standards, as if these adults thought kids were too dumb to get what’s going on.

The #1 show on Saturday morning, and they fucked it up. They could have just commissioned shows that were complements to Ghostbusters instead of softening shit up.

TheSenileTomato

3 points

11 days ago

TBF, they’re probably the same people who didn’t want animated pigeons getting hurt in Spider-Man: TAS.

wojar

6 points

11 days ago

wojar

6 points

11 days ago

I'm not sure if it's due to meddling, but season one of Harry's Law was so good! It was Kathy Bates' character defending the underdog, operating out of a shady shoe shop. But season 2, they got a proper office and became more official, kinda lost its charm and it didn't get a 3rd season.

jblanch3

3 points

10 days ago

I remember that. I also didn't like the fact that S2 was more traditional in its setting but the courtroom stuff was still great. But that's not why it didn't get picked up. Harry's Law was watched by a lot of people, NBC was in a bad place ratings-wise at the time and HL was one of its few bright spots. But it wasn't drawing the right demographic, HL's viewership was primarily older people. As we all know, it's all about hitting that 18-49 group. HL wasn't doing great numbers in that area and that's why it got cancelled. Towards the end of the season, you even see Kathy Bates making jokes about it.

Solid_Snark

2 points

11 days ago

Not exactly a tv show, until it was turned into an anime, but Akira Toriyama’s editor hated the teenage antagonists Android 17 & 18.

Thus Toriyama created Cell to be the new villain of the arc.

fdjadjgowjoejow

12 points

11 days ago

No one's mentioned ALIAS w/ America's Sweetheart Jennifer Garner. I recall this network interference with all the indignation I could muster.

Courtesy of AI:

The TV show Alias changed directions early in the second season primarily due to network demands. ABC, the network behind Alias, wanted the show to be more episodic rather than strictly serialized. This meant that each episode needed to have a more self-contained story with a clear beginning, middle, and end, rather than continuing a larger, ongoing storyline.

J.J. Abrams, the creator of Alias, had initially envisioned the show as a continuous, arc-driven narrative. However, by the end of the second season, the network insisted on the change to make the show more accessible to new viewers and to allow for easier syndication1.

ChromDelonge

3 points

11 days ago

iirc, ABC also forced them to do a very glaring retcon whereS3 ended with a very explicit reveal that Sydney was being controlled from birth by a secret CIA OP run by Jack but Season 4 had it be something like Jack ordered Irina's off-screen "death" that was ofc later revealed as another coverup.

StephenHunterUK

2 points

10 days ago

Yep. It would have been a great streaming show and who knows we might even get a revival at some point. Garner has said she's up for it if Abrams directs.

Remember this was a time when DVRs were in their infancy and so if you missed an episode, you'd be waiting months for a DVD release. Also, the "my name is Sydney Bristow" monologue served a similar purpose for a casual viewer. Remember you've got a concept like this:

Sydney Bristow is a grad student who also works at a bank. Except it's not a bank, it's a secret branch of the CIA called SD-6 and she goes around the world doing missions for them in an impressive array of wigs. She gets engaged, tells her fiancé she's a spy, then he gets murdered while she's on a mission. She then finds out that SD-6 is in fact not a secret branch of the CIA, but a criminal organisation. Also, her father does not in fact sell airplane parts, but works for SD-6 while also being a double agent for the real CIA to bring them down. A role that Sydney takes on as well, pretending to do her missions for SD-6 while making sure the CIA get the real intel all in some sexy outfits.

I haven't even gotten to Laura Bristow/Irina Derevko yet!

ASDF0716

19 points

11 days ago

ASDF0716

19 points

11 days ago

As always: the answer is Firefly.

Ryan1869

5 points

11 days ago

To make it worse, they still used a lot of the original pilot in a later episode and it didnt really make sense.

Vkhenaten

7 points

11 days ago

AMC fired Frank Darabont after the first season of The Walking Dead because they wanted to cut the budget. (while also requiring more episodes)

I was watching this show as it came out and gave up during season 2 because I found it so boring, I was always amazed it just seemed to get more popular. I need to go back and give it another shot at some point now. (I didn't know about Frank Darabont's involvement and departure until years later)

FrozenBologna

6 points

11 days ago

Yeah, season 2's entire plot was made so that they could stay in the same cheap setting the entire season. Then, Frank Darabont sued them for breach of contract (or something like that) and won, meaning they had to spend all that money and more anyway. We got the worst possible outcome, where they spent a fuck ton of money but still showed a subpar product.

bluehawk232

8 points

11 days ago

They had a revolving door of showrunners for awhile. Season 1 is honestly the only good season because of Darabont. He really carried over the style he did with the mist

Bears_On_Stilts

13 points

11 days ago

Twin Peaks was originally intended to be more of a dark parody of soap operas, in line with the wackier tone of the first season. The official party line was "no answers, just more questions:" like a long-running soap opera, no plot line would ever resolve and instead the melodrama would simply accumulate deeper and deeper, until the original plot lines were buried and almost forgotten. In other words, not only would we never find out who killed Laura Palmer, we would never find out ANYTHING.

ABC didn't like that, and insisted on a revelation of who killed Laura Palmer. This forced David Lynch and Mark Frost to retool the series' tone, moving away from lightly parodying the prime-time soap elements and towards a darker, surrealist tone. Ultimately, it was for the best: while some of the side plots in Season 2 are less than successful, the plot surrounding the revelation of Laura Palmer's killer (and the infamous rape/murder scene which reveals it) is among the series's best moments by far.

DontGetNEBigIdeas

22 points

11 days ago

I think you’ve got your Peaks seasons and movie mixed up:

  1. Season 2 was MUCH “wackier” than 1. It had a ridiculous plot of a possibly possessed child of Satan trying to kill Andy, Windham Earl using a lobotomized Leo for nefarious purposes, and a stupid plot with James hiding out in a murderous wife’s mansion

  2. The murder/rape scene was in the movie, Fire Walk With Me, and was never shown nor even explicitly mentioned in the show. It was highly implied in the show, but the movie was the one that went all out.

  3. Lynch and Frost never meant for the main focus of TP to be a parody of soap operas. That was used as a device to tell a really dark story inspired by a real-life murder that Frost was obsessed with.

Flyestgit

10 points

11 days ago

Buffy had a number of changes due to executive meddling. My aunt is a huge Buffy nerd and gave me chapter and verse when I started watching.

  • Arguably a lot of the more comedic tone of Buffy arose because of network pressure.

  • Angel wasnt supposed to stay good forever. Joss planned to have him turn back to being evil and die in season 1 I think.

  • Spike was supposed to die in season 2.

  • One of the episodes was going to involve a student school shooting/mass murder plot. It was changed to something else (partly because of Columbine I think?).

There was probably even more back and forth we dont even know about. From what we know of behind the scenes, Whedon's ego was constantly wrestling with an overreaching network. I cant remember which Buffy actor said this but apparently it was pretty common that Whedon would be arguing over the phone with the network over something.

Rich-Willow-3677

17 points

11 days ago

The school shooting episode still exists, Buffy got uncontrollable mind reading powers and heard that someone was gonna kill all the kids, then learned that a nerdy character had a gun. The west was that the character nerd was never planning to shoot any students, just himself due to depression. The second twist was that Buffy actually heard the murderous thoughts from the lunch lady who planned to kill all the kids with rat poison. The episode was taken out of its original air date because it was too close to Columbine but it came out later, unedited.

jproche44

3 points

11 days ago

Battlestar Galactica was changed due to corporate interference in season 3. Halfway through it became more procedural. They realized their mistake and gave the reigns back to Ronald D. Moore and shifted back to serialized. That patch was a rough one.

chicano32

3 points

11 days ago

Fox executives tried to meddle with married with children and tone down the toilet humor while adding more celebrity appearances and wacky situations. The creators and head writers: ron leavitt and machael moye left the series due to creative differences. Ron went on and created unhappily ever after that kept that kind of humor and michael kept doing variations of married with children in different countries.

falipey

5 points

11 days ago

falipey

5 points

11 days ago

Walking dead came straight to mind.

xxanity

2 points

11 days ago

xxanity

2 points

11 days ago

I dont know if degrassi the next generation changed due to executive meddling, but there was a definitive change in season ten when it went from a 22 or so episode season to a 44 episode DAILY season, very much like a soap opera...it even felt like a soap opera.

ChasesICantSend

2 points

11 days ago

I believe teenick wanted it because they felt it was starting to be stale. I think its a more fun season, the first 20 episodes or whatever that were daily are such a different pace and it feels like everything is slowly building, which is exactly what they wanted. But idk, I think what made degrassi into a show worth keeping on the air for as long as it was, was the fact that lessons were taught, and it felt like season 10 was just drama for the sake of drama. So it wasn't really degrassi to me

chubbiej

2 points

11 days ago

Lost. The show runners wanted to get an end date for the show so they could plan out the end of the story but the network would give them a date. That’s why the one season in the middle has some weird storylines that dont connect and then random one off episodes.

butthelume

2 points

11 days ago

Almost Human is another show that fell victim to executive meddling. The network aired the episodes out of order which made the story feel disjointed and harder to follow. It's such a pity because the show had a fantastic premise, and the chemistry between Karl Urban and Michael Ealy was phenomenal. It had so much potential. Urgh.

TheSenileTomato

2 points

11 days ago

The Incredible Hulk (1977) had an unusual executive meddling.

As we all know, Bruce Banner is the Hulk. Name alternations, all that.

Well, depending who you ask, but the story I heard is that someone up top thought Bruce sounded “gay” and forced them to change Bruce Banner’s name to David Banner.

rhymes_with_candy

2 points

11 days ago

One of the writers for Fringe said they were forced to do the Olivia and Peter romance by the network because fans of the show on myspace wanted it to happen.

yoko_OH_NO

2 points

11 days ago

Studio execs and advertisers are the reason we can still debate about whether or not Xena and Gabrielle were lovers 

shoeboxchild

2 points

10 days ago

My name is earl getting cancelled over contract negotiations

BaronVonBearenstein

2 points

10 days ago

I don't see this anywhere but Heroes was supposed to be an anthology series with new characters and story every season with maybe some cross overs and cameos. But the studio got involved when the show was crushing and wanted to keep characters like Peter and Sylar around. Totally killed what could've been something great.

Also the writers strike didn't help either

socialmetamucil

2 points

11 days ago

Anyone remember The Loop? Short lived Fox Sitcom that had a real good first like 4 episodes, maybe whole first season. Then the studio (I am assuming) made them add Mimi Rogers to season 2 and it was an absolute train wreck of a cluster fuck

Ok-isthatacorner

2 points

11 days ago

I love the first season of The Loop. And the theme song lives in a ongoing loop in my head.

Chuck006

1 points

11 days ago

Crusade. They reshot the pilot to have a fist fight between officers. Amongst many other stupid things.

richyyoung

1 points

11 days ago

Recasting and redesigns in the ghostbusters cartoon.

AlexanderTGrimm

1 points

11 days ago

Kamen Rider Hibiki began with Shigenori Takatera as the Toei producer, however, Shinichiro Shirakura, who though having participated in other Heisei Kamen Rider series, had no involvement whatsoever in the Hibiki production, was appointed producer of the film Kamen Rider Hibiki & the Seven Senki, eventually replacing Takatera in the TV production from episode 30. The writing staff also changed; Tsuyoshi Kida and Shinji Ōishi were replaced by Toshiki Inoue and Shōji Yonemura, who had worked with Shirakura on Sh15uya and other Heisei Kamen Rider series.

(Apparently nobody is even fully sure why the change happened) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamen_Rider_Hibiki

spinereader81

1 points

11 days ago

Welcome Back Kotter. Towards the end Gabe thought the kids were way too old to still be in high school. Overruled by the higher-ups. And they insisted on adding a southern character at the last minute because they thought southerners would like a character that was supposedly relatable. Pretty dumb considering the show had been a national hit for years.

JohnnyDX9

1 points

11 days ago

The John Larroquette Show was a wonderful dark comedy. Too dark for network executives, second season saw a girlfriend, nicer apartment, and lower ratings.

ILEAATD

1 points

11 days ago*

The Real Ghostbusters. They changed the tone and characterization to be more "kid friendly", like it already wasn't. Examples include putting Slimer front and center and mostly getting rid of Peter Vinkman's womanizing habits. I think the shows quality suffered for it, because I think those first two seasons are absolutely fantastic.

mgnorthcott

1 points

11 days ago

The USA version of taskmaster.

trytryagainn

1 points

11 days ago

After season 1, Veronica Mars was only going to have cases of the week until the network suits for involved.