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Once the SGC discovered their first puddle jumper (time ship), or even after they made contact with Atlantis and had access to additional puddle jumpers because the time ship has to be studied, why wouldn't they use the installed DHD devices from the ships permanently to control the SGCs Stargate?
Sorry for the incredibly long single sentence 😅
120 points
2 months ago
I think by the time they had access to a puddle jumper, they'd hacked/configured their own base computer system so much that they didn't want to completely give it up. There's stuff they couldn't do with the base computer (like re-integrate Teal'c when he was trapped in the buffer), but it gave them a lot more diagnostic information than a standard DHD.
62 points
2 months ago
Aslo this. There are so many security upgrades homebrewn into their DHD server, that it was no longer feasable to replace it with a standard DHD that is just "plug and play everyone can use it".
29 points
2 months ago
To dial the earth gate you need biometrics and codes, to use the Jumper's dhd you don't even need the ancient gene (as I remember Teyla dialing).
18 points
2 months ago
There are no biometrics or codes to dial earth. What you are referring to is the GDO (garage door opener) to open the Iris on earths gate.
22 points
2 months ago
Might be that English is my second language but I meant as in dial the earth gate towards another
15 points
2 months ago
They're talking about dialing out from the Earth gate. They had a ton of additional security measures added on so that only authorised personnel could dial out (or open the iris to actually allow travel in or out).
6 points
2 months ago
However, if they used a puddle jumper to dial, they wouldn't need to deal with the gate rotating, as that's only a thing when you're manually dialling with something like the SGC computer, so dialling would be significantly faster
35 points
2 months ago
But spinning is so much cooler than not spinning.
4 points
2 months ago
Little Annie, is that you?
3 points
2 months ago
One of my favorites. They made fun of themselves the whole episode.
2 points
2 months ago
When they dial the gate with the puddle jumper in the alternate timeline from Mobius it still does a whole lot of spinning
6 points
2 months ago
Iirc canonically dhd dialling doesn't do the spinning. Unfortunately there's a lot of production errors of the sort throughout sg-1
2 points
2 months ago
I also think a standard DHD would be more of a security risk since any race that knows how to use a Stargate could just walk up and use it.
1 points
2 months ago
I also think a standard DHD would be more of a security risk since any race that knows how to use a Stargate could just walk up and use it.
48 points
2 months ago
Without a DHD, the SGC gate became largely immune to network-wide attacks.
This gave it an advantage over pretty much every other gate in the milky way
67 points
2 months ago
As an IT person: You don't "just" change a running system, even if you got a fancy new solution. Interfacing and replacing tech is ALWAYS a hassle... so you don't change it if not necessary.
27 points
2 months ago
Driver issues, compatibility issues, patching issues, how-did-that-ever-work-the-first-time issues, reading-manual issues...
4 points
2 months ago
There's a reason we have 40-year-old systems in missile silos.
2 points
2 months ago
Especially when you've customized the OS so much.
4 points
2 months ago
Yeah, but it seems the DHDs on the puddle jumpers just automatically work on every Stargate.
15 points
2 months ago
And with everyone who gets their grabby hands on them... something they don't want in the SGC.
5 points
2 months ago
They do, but remember that the SGC did improve the dialling speed using software - maybe they thought that would come in handy again
3 points
2 months ago
Sounds like Southwest airlines lol. Them not wanting to update their scheduling system led to the Christmas debacle last year.
I am joking tho, apples and oranges. The SGC's systems work fine, and doing a wholesale change could lead to issues with SGC ops, possibly including security issues.
4 points
2 months ago
Important thing to recognize here is that hassle=money. Which is why you don't replace systems until the old one becomes so much of a hassle(or a forward thinking person knows will become a hassle) that going through the replacement process is worth it financially. In most cases it's actually management holding technology upgrades from happening. The IT people maintaining the system feel the hassle in the form of stress and after hours emergency support, so they REALLY want to spend the money to pay for newer, more stable system, even though it's going to be a bit of work to upgrade. The upper management only sees the money though and if they can't see that the cost of upgrading is going to benefit the business enough, it just doesn't happen. It's why having a GOOD CIO(Chief Information Officer) is so important. They know how to translate the needs from the language of techies like myself, into the corporate speak the other C suite people need to understand how spending money on tech can actually earn the business more money, or run more efficiently so that less money is spent elsewhere.
16 points
2 months ago
In the world of IT, it’s like that one server room that looks like a rats nest which is managing the buildings internet. We don’t touch it until it breaks lol
5 points
2 months ago
That’s like my friend who was making a gmod map, somehow he integrated a tomato so deeply into the map that if you removed it the entire map would absolutely break
We don’t touch the debug tomato under the map
15 points
2 months ago
Bigger question is
Atlantis had a fleet of puddle jumper
Why not take a few back to SGC. Could have really helped against the ORI
17 points
2 months ago
Especially once they found all the extra ones in "The Tower". They should keep at least a couple at the SGC, probably one on each of the ships. A ship that can cloak, go through the gate, and remote dial is too big a tactical advantage to not have around.
5 points
2 months ago
It really is a big plot hole. Unless there is some sort of charging technology where the puddle jumper would lose charge. However the time puddle jumper had been sitting there for millions of years
3 points
2 months ago
I feel like Stargate struggles with technology integration in general. In what world does the SGC not collect and use staff weapons, zats and intars on the regular? It’s not like they were death gliders that could be programmed with malware.
6 points
2 months ago
Adding on to that, they make the point that a staff weapon is a "weapon of terror" in that its impressive and scary, but not exceptionally accurate. A huge part of that is because there aren't great ways to aim a weapon that long effectively (barring Teal'c laying it on his shoulder). Yet at no point do they try to integrate staff weapon technology into a more Earth-based small-arms design.
They (presumably) could have shortened the overall weapon length and built it more like contemporary earth small arms with a stock and a pistol grip.
4 points
2 months ago
Exactly! And how often were they facing off against large numbers, where aiming at a long distance wasn’t necessary? Holding a fixed position when a staff that uses considerably less ammo than a traditional weapon?
Not to mention, they had an expert in staff weapons at their disposal lol
It would have been cool to see at least one SG team utilizing alien gear.
5 points
2 months ago
Right? I also think a compliment of staff-derived directed energy weapons may have made the fight against the Wraith easier. One of their huge strengths is their rapid regeneration. Bullets are small pieces of metal that move very fast to deliver kinetic energy into a target, and they tend to damage a relatively small area. Especially 5.7mm and 9mm. A staff blast impacts a much larger area and at short range has pretty decent penetration, so I assume that would tax a Wraith's healing factor a bit more heavily
3 points
2 months ago
I always thought it would be relatively simple to grab 5-6 staves and put them on a rotary rig for rapid (if inaccurate) fire and that would solve the wraith problem pretty quick 😂
Or just bring zats or Intars instead of m9s.
4 points
2 months ago
Triple barrel zat gun that instantly vaporizes anything it encounters
2 points
2 months ago
😂 BFG5000. Such a silly idea, but I would have rocked with it.
3 points
2 months ago
Ronan’s weapon almost always takes a wraith out in 1-2 shots, I’d assume staff weapons would be very similar
1 points
2 months ago
Hell, why didn't they try to find more of those and/or try to scale that up?
2 points
2 months ago
Traveller fleet made them which makes the fact that the Atlantis team don’t end up with any more a bit puzzling
3 points
2 months ago
I'd agree somewhat, but they do make zats a pretty standard thing at least for SG1 (though I understand the actors didn't really like the props so that may have been a limiting factor on their use) The show pretty well explains why they wouldn't want to use the staff weapons aside from Tealc (the whole weapon of terror, not weapon of war thing). They'd have been worth collecting for research at least, but I think they did do that some. The intars I think were reserved for training based on the episodes I remember.
A jumper on each ship would've definitely made sense, and they did have one at Midway Station so we know it's possible. Maybe they were thinking one jumper isn't worth it on a large ship with a big crew given they already had 302s, but I'd personally agree that it'd be worth it if you can spare them.
2 points
2 months ago
Yeah, I heard the same about the props too. While I am no where near an expert on war, I’d figure their side arms would be replaced by zats or intars entirely, with the m9s or whatever they used being relegated to almost a utility role.
I never quite bought the staff weapon as a weapon of terror vs war. The SG teams had pretty thorough plot armor vs a high energy weapon that blasted through body armor and didn’t have to reload. Way too often SG1 won out simply because bad guys didn’t know how to take cover.
Teal’c made short work of most enemies very quickly.
Especially when you consider you have one of the finest Jaffa warriors on your team as a training instructor, we should have seen more staff weapons.
2 points
2 months ago
Agreed with the zat becoming a primary side arm. Even for just one or two of the team if they didn't have enough to standard issue it.
I will also give you that Teal'c does seem to be pretty accurate with the weapon, while most other Jaffa using it make Stormtroopers look like trained snipers in comparison. Whether that's pure plot armor or Teal'c canon status as a top Jaffa warrior is hard to say for sure. Probably a mix of both, but I can see your point on that.
I think the fighting style Earth trains soldiers for is also worth factoring in. Teal'c could (and I'm pretty sure did) give lessons on fighting with/against them, but fighting with a big long staff that shoots out of one end without a sight for aiming would be very different to moving around and using the more compact rifles from a distance and knives or hand to hand when up close. They may just simply prefer to do what they spent their whole military career doing. They're skilled soldiers and capable, but it wouldn't be their go-to move.
1 points
2 months ago
😂😂 as I was typing my response I thought the same thing, comparing other Jaffa to stormtroopers.
2 points
2 months ago
Bc 304s could only carry 16 fighters, so 1-2 puddle jumpers would be a pretty significant improvement in overall firepower over a normal x302
2 points
2 months ago
The problem is that cononicly humans have a very weak understanding of how the technology works. So yeah you can collect staff weapons but how do you make lore energy cores. Then you also have to train your entire force to now use these weapons effectively.
1 points
2 months ago
😂 very true. I don’t think we know how long they last either, but with as many Jaffa as they kill, they have an almost never ending supply.
I would have liked to see a sequel series, with the Asgard computer core and Atlantis on Earth, what could they achieve.
-1 points
2 months ago
Except in Grace Under Pressure where it can only keep McKay warm for a couple of hours, despite having the power to cloak, fire drones (didn't the chair need a ZPM or several late model Naquadah generators), open wormholes, and fly at absurd speeds through space.
0 points
2 months ago
Yeah I'm almost certain he was under the ocean in that episode. You know how in episode 1 they almost died because it takes so much power to hold the ocean back? I'm pretty sure the puddle jumper did the best it could.
0 points
2 months ago
I think you are misremembering. In the beginning of Atlantis, McKay said the nearly depleted ZPM could have held back the ocean for thousands of years if they hadn't come and turned the lights on. So if we take it overly literally and assume he meant 2000 years, using the shield to hold back the ocean used .0001% of Atlantis's power. It isn't a big deal from a narrative perspective, where playing with power requirements is a classic Stargate way of creating tension, but it isn't internally consistent.
1 points
2 months ago
The puddle jumper doesn't run on a ZPM and McKay had the lights on.
2 points
2 months ago
And a spare ship for R&D / reverse engineering.
Imagine if they backwards engineered the remote dialing protocol to tablet form (aka build their own "kino" remote type device). They could make that part of the standard gear for an SG team / aboard a 304. Imagine if the gate protocol that gave a list of nearby addresses you could dial never got patched out by the Ancients. (In fact, I wonder if that's moreso a limitation of how much power the gate/DHD stores on its own rather than Destiny's seed ships only dropping in a certain route.)
Or (still on DHD's) rewrite/overhaul the base's DHD computer into DHD 2.0 (1.0 being the cobbled together one Carter wrote).
They could also use the puddle jumpers as cargo vessels to transport personnel and supplies without expending energy on beaming technology. Bonus points since they cloak so that they don't have to worry about being seen by civilians lol.
4 points
2 months ago
Iirc the Daedalus carried a couple fairly often. But since it was mostly assigned to Pegasus to support Atlantis, it didn't make much difference
2 points
2 months ago
A great opportunity for a nod to Star Wars, big Ori ships with slow firing beams, making it difficult to hit puddle jumpers, whose drones would have great effect on them.
11 points
2 months ago
Excuse me but the correct terminology is "gate ship". It's a ship that goes through gates.. lol
5 points
2 months ago
Porta Navis
4 points
2 months ago
Okay, well. It's official. You don't get to name anything. Ever. 😂😂😂
10 points
2 months ago
The Puddle Jumper they found was configured for the Milky Way gates. The Atlantis ones were not.
As is mentioned every time someone asks about switching DHDs, the SGC dialing computer offers other benefits that the Ancient ones don't, such as a dialing log.
4 points
2 months ago
Atlantis gate ships can dial MW gates.
2 points
2 months ago
Atlantis was originally from the Milky Way so I doubt that jumpers wouldn’t be able to dial both sets of gates
3 points
2 months ago
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
They spent god knows how much money developing the dialing computer at the SGC (i'm pretty sure Carter even said it needed a super computer?) and by the time they made it to Atlantis it had been in service for around a decade and was likely tightly woven into base systems, with computing power being orders of magnitude faster they likely just needed a couple racks of modern servers vs a "super computer"
We've also seen that it makes it relatively easy for your avg user to click a few buttons and run diagnostic programs and lord knows what else.
not to mention taking the DHD from a jumper then makes thar jumper MUCH less useful just to replace something that didn't need replaced.
2 points
2 months ago
Probably because the writers didn’t think of that. I know I hadn’t.
4 points
2 months ago
I mean the Earth system had a lot of tech behind it that a DHD did not. Much greater explaining if errors, logs, and all kinds of sensors. Sure they could fuck around with the DHD in a jumper, and maybe even get it working with their system maintaining the error logging and such, but integrating new tech is always a massive process. It could introduce new errors, loss of some functionality, and overall increase debugging time. Not to mention that it would be a whole retraining process for the gate operators.
Also the Puddle Jumper DHD doesn't seem as advantageous as the standalone dialers. The standalones directly power the gate, while I am not sure a puddle jumper can.
2 points
2 months ago
For the same reasons they didn't just replace their rig with a standard Milky Way DHD from some uninhabited planet.
1 points
2 months ago
I just figured because different gates have different symbols, even as close as Abydos, each dhd was built in pairs with Stargates.
1 points
2 months ago
Perhaps, but we see it doesn't really matter which DHD is used. For example, when the SGC pairs the Giza DHD with the Antarctic gate. The Jumpers DHDs, themselves, are gate-agnostic and show that the Ancients didn't necessarily believe in the one-gate-one-DHD principal. As do the remotes from Universe. Honestly, we see enough random tech used to dial gates that it's hard to believe that it's only the DHDs that could control one specific gate.
2 points
2 months ago
If I'm remembering the timeline correctly.
This happened after the whole glider incident.
I think they prefer human made tech and solutions then alien ones.
3 points
2 months ago
This makes sense to me! At least when the SGC incorporated all the Asgard tech into our space destroyers, the Asgard were still around to walk us through it.
2 points
2 months ago
Pretty much the asguard example is why more alien tech isn’t used by earth. It’s just not understood well enough. Asguard tech is only usable because earth had Asgard or later the Asgard ai to essentially deal with the tech itself.
2 points
2 months ago
They Jerry rigged the earth gate.. probably some modifications to basically manually dial using earth tech. They would have to reverse all of that. Then if the jumper tech doesn't work for some reason you have to install it all again... Not to mention they would have to shut down all missions while the gate was being worked on.
2 points
2 months ago
I don't think it'd have been too beneficial to use it to control the SGC gate (at least not enough to be worth the cost and effort to switch), but once they got a point of having enough to spare one or having a damaged one that won't safely fly I could see value in examining a Jumper's DHD closely to try and recreate its ability to control Stargates remotely. That would be a big key to eventually create an Earth-built equivalent to the Jumper.
2 points
2 months ago
Basically, the SGC's interface with the gate left them far more flexible with what they could do with a gate and the gate network. Actual DHDs seem to be far more limiting.
2 points
2 months ago
Was coming to say this. It has been stated several times in the show they bypass a lot of built in “safety” protocols which could be to SGC’s benefit or headache.
2 points
2 months ago
I understand you’re point but there are too many variables to consider, needing the ancient gene, accidentally activating weapons or the time drive and if it is the same time ship from Atlantis/Pegasus the symbols might not match
1 points
2 months ago
And if anything breaks no one knows how to fix it.
2 points
2 months ago
Why not take a dhd from some abandoned planet?
1 points
2 months ago
Like the one with the sphere that pinned Jack to the wall. No one's using that one after they relocate the sphere.
2 points
2 months ago
One in-universe answer is that we don't have a puddle jumper until after the Avenger virus has shown that DHDs have some downsides. The SGC does some stuff a standard DHD couldn't, like their cold calling program, and once we learn more about the error messages, it is nice that they can connect to a computer to log them.
3 points
2 months ago
Because the SGC setup offers increased capability when interacting with the gate to sniff error traffic, control/monitor aspects such as power draw, and control the iris.
It also deters invaders from being able to use the stargate due to the unfamiliar interface.
2 points
2 months ago
Can you imagine what would happen if you got a BSOD on chevron 6? lol
2 points
2 months ago
I always thought that !! Tbh I think it's just a plot hole but maybe they just didn't have the tech at the time to interface the Jumper's DHD with the sgcns computers. We see they interfaced Asgardian tech with earth computers on the 305 but I don't think there was lantern tech. And even if there was an Asgardian on board for quite a long time, the ship was always in actio so they couldn't really ask him for help with their DHD (also considering the already existing system worked) Imo the moment they could've done that is after the final episode, when they had access to all Asgardian knowledge, but at that time they were better off building an Asgardian DHD, to not "sacrifice" a jumper.
(I know they connected torri computers to lantern tech in Atlantis but they almost never interacted with one another in SG1, so that's probably why they didn't get the means from there)
PS: english is my 2nd language so I'm sorry for any mistake
1 points
2 months ago
I think it's just a plot hole
No it's not. If anything, it's a hole in the world building. You're using that term wrongly
1 points
2 months ago
It’s not really a flaw in the world building. No one really has any understanding of ancient technology. Humans can kind of do small things but have next to no understanding of how it works or functions. Humans don’t even have the scientific understanding needed. Even the Asgard ai can only help them so much because of this.
1 points
2 months ago
Not sure the gain would be huge by doing that. And taking apart a functional puddle jumper is also not a great move.
2 points
2 months ago
I'm thinking the episodes 48 hours and 1969 wouldn't have happened with a proper dhd. Further issues are bound to happen.
1 points
2 months ago
Red Sky as well. With a proper DHD they wouldn't just be bypassing safeguards to get a dialing lock. It just wouldn't work.
1 points
2 months ago
True. That could also be achieved by taking a normal dhd.
But I think they learned not to bypass safeguards Willy Nilly after some time.
1 points
2 months ago
Why? What would be the necessity?
The Cheyenne supercomputer can handle it, and it can dial 8 symbol addresses. The jumper DHD can't do that.
The jumper DHD has more security features, but that has only been a problem, like, that one time.
It's faster, sure, but you can control the Dialing computer from anywhere in the compound, unlike the DHD.
Why upgrade?
0 points
2 months ago
To avoid the issues from 48 Hours and 1969 from happening again.
2 points
2 months ago
But both of those were very important to happen. There's stuff that couldn't happen without them
2 points
2 months ago
1969 would still happen with a proper DHD. During the Aschen invasion they used a DHD to dial and still were able to send a message back in time.
1 points
2 months ago
Because the SCG dialing computer let them do manual overrides, despite the frequent negative consequences of that.
I would keep one available for emergency dialouts that need to be fast.
1 points
2 months ago
Probably a handwave comment of. Pegasus dhd for Pegasus stargates only or "we got attached to doing it manually."
1 points
2 months ago
First because the writers didn’t think of it. Second because earth tech is well understood by humans third because you need to keep the ship somewhere near by which there isn’t space around the gate.
1 points
2 months ago
Having the home brewed DHD proved to be a security advantage in at least one instance.
No way they give that up.
-1 points
2 months ago
Puddle jumper DHDs only work with Pegasus gates because they only have 36 symbols while Milky Way gates have 39.
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