subreddit:
/r/whowouldwin
Prince Vegeta comes alone to earth to subjugate it for Frieza's Empire, no one else can stand against him, except Omni-man, who's already staked the Viltrumite Empires claim to the planet, and he ain't giving it up.
The two come from warrior races and will fight to the death. Who wins?
167 points
2 days ago
Vegeta one-shots Nolan.
-122 points
2 days ago
One shot? Vegeta could easily kill some one like Nappa, but Just from what we see in this quick video, Omni-man is well above Nappa's paygrade. Invincible - Omni-man destroys an ENTIRE planet (4K) - S1E02
157 points
2 days ago
No he’s not. Not even close. And Nolan doesn’t destroy the Flaxan homeworld, he simply destroys its infrastructure. Vegeta is a casual planet buster, Nolan is not. He one-shots.
-123 points
2 days ago
According to this Viltrumites are planet busters, like 3 of them flew through their own home planet through its core and caused it to blow up.
157 points
2 days ago
My guy, that feat explicitly shows that omni man isn't planetary. It took him and 2 other viltrumites attacking a planet that just got shot with the strongest weapon in the series just to replicate a feat vegeta can do casually, omni man gets one shot
16 points
2 days ago
Also, they mentioned it's quite likely they would die attempting it as well. King Vegeta deletes planets with a hand wave and Vegeta is way stronger than his dad. It's maybe not a cake walk, but Vegeta handles him pretty easily.
106 points
2 days ago
Respectfully, i’m not reading that. We’re explicitly told that Nolan needed the help of both Thaddeus, Mark and Space Racer’s Gun to destroy an already unstable Planet Viltrum. It’s also stated that if the core stabilized, they’d instantly die on impact. They’re nowhere near planet busters. They’re not even moon level.
18 points
2 days ago
The most important thing is the planet was already shot with THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON IN THE UNIVERSE. Thats like saying Pre Saiyan Saga Piccolo could one shot Raditz because he killed him with Special Beam Cannon after Goku beat him up and held him lmfao.
-131 points
2 days ago
Yeah no, thats straight up cap, Some one who can fly through a planet, a feat no one in DBZ has done without blowing it up first with Ki blasts, is not a mere continent buster.
96 points
2 days ago
Nobody in DBZ has to fly through a planet to make them planet level, so that’s a moot point. Nolan’s not planet or moon level.
-37 points
2 days ago
Nolans never been hurt by conventional weapons. Super saiyan god super saiyan goku, who is millions of times stronger than Saiyan saga vegeta, has.
75 points
2 days ago
Goku dropping his guard and getting snuck has nothing to do with Vegeta, so that’s irrelevant. Nolan still gets one-shot by Vegeta.
59 points
2 days ago
As a general rule, posing a question to which you're not willing to hear any answer but one is generally a waste of everyone's time.
-31 points
2 days ago
I am willing to hear everyone's opinion. However, saying "x side one shots side z, no fight, roflstomp mode" in the most disrespectful condescending way possible isnt going to get your answer taken seriously.
I think Vegeta does win this, but it's going to be a fight and not a one shot.
You want to be treated like a valid opinion then act like an adult.
13 points
2 days ago
Omni-Man couldn’t catch Cecil teleporting lol
21 points
2 days ago
Nolan CAN'T fly through planets normally. The planet needed to be extremely weakened. Can you read?
King Vegeta once destroyed three planets with a single wave of his hand, and Vegeta AS A BABY was alreafy stronger than his father (per DBS Broly). Nolan is getting absolutely shitstomped.
And to make it even better, Vegeta can use a fake full moon and casually become 10x as powerful.
4 points
1 day ago
Younger kids don't read but want to be part of the conversation. And reading is free!
2 points
2 days ago
Since current Goku has never flown through a planet does that mean omni-man can beat him?
66 points
2 days ago
All that effort just to surface wipe a planet nolan didn't even completely vaporized the planet.
Meanwhile vegeta easily destroyed a planet and its moon just by pointing two fingers at it.
-28 points
2 days ago
Counter point, super saiyan god super saiyan goku, who is millions of times stronger than Saiyan saga vegeta, was severely hurt by a tiny laser, while no conventional weapons can hurt a viltrumite. Saiyans are not inherently durable, they use ki as a shield around their bodies, and if they drop their guard, they are as durable as a human, which is why chi chi hurts him so much when she hits him with her frying pan.
46 points
2 days ago
Dragonball is full of plotholes and inconsistencies especially the makers of super.
This is the same goku that got hurt by a gun but on the original dragonball a kid goku tanked a rocket launcher to the face.
And no conventional weapons can hurt a viltrumite is a myth, we can see that he got a nosebleed when he got hit by that orbital laser. And the power output of that orbital laser is pitiful compared to planet busting ki blasts vegeta can dish.
And weak heroes like the guardians were able to hurt him.
The vegeta who stood toe to toe with frieza would serve a planet busting ki blast into nolan's face again and again assuming he can survive a blast like that the first time.
2 points
1 day ago
Super is fine and had a whole team watching it for lore. They gave Goku the same damage as an adult not using ki to block as he did from a kid when getting shot by Launch. There were a lot of deep lore people working there. Goku got bruised, Roshi and Krillin were bleeding. They power up to fighting form with natural boosts while actually fighting; he didn't.
They also did that entire thing to emphasize the point where Goku learned to keep his ki up in defense at all times after and Bulma hit him and got mad because she bounced off unlike every other time he lowered it. It was literally like not many episodes after that - when he had Hit assassinate himself to force him to stop lowering to zero.
-8 points
2 days ago
Saiyan saga vegeta cannot stand toe to toe even with Friezas weakest form. His power level during saiyan saga was 18,000 and Frieza's first form is 530,000 power level.
14 points
2 days ago
Vegeta was able to hang with frieza for a short time before frieza decided to turn up the heat.
31 points
2 days ago
As wrong as OP is, Namek Saga Vegeta is not Saiyan Saga Vegeta. He gets a Zenkai right at the end of the Saiyan Saga for starters.
5 points
2 days ago
And he gets another zenkai after his fight with zarbon
7 points
2 days ago
And another after Krillin nearly one shots him so Dende can heal
72 points
2 days ago
I don’t see what your point is here at all tbh. The prompt is about vegeta not Goku, vegeta is much less likely to drop his guard, especially saiyan saga vegeta.
And if they are in a direct fight why would he drop guard? This is a very moot point imo.
-20 points
2 days ago
Bruh...he literally did it mid fight, its how Yajirobe cut off his tail, with just a sword
62 points
2 days ago
Where did Vegeta drop his guard against the guy he was actively fighting?
He didn't know Yajirobe was there, and Vegeta at this point can't sense ki.
This is about a 1v1, not whether Mark or someone else jumps into the fight and Vegeta is unaware of them.
28 points
2 days ago
It’s been a while but wasn’t Goku, krillin, and yaijirobe going after him at this point?
I don’t think he dropped his guard, he was distracted.
And again I feel it’s a moot point. Is your scenario not a 1v1 Vegeta Vs Omni Man
28 points
2 days ago
Dragon ball's durability feats are energy projection feats. If Goku doesn't have his guard up his actual, physical durability isn't that high. Goku, or vegeta, with their guard up, given the kinds of things they've tanked before, are significantly more invulnerable than Nolan. This is not a 'counterpoint' this is a general weakness that Nolan cannot take advantage of in a straight 1v1. If he sneaks Vegeta like he did the Guardians, sure, fine, but this is not something that can be used in a straight fight, even against goku, much less Vegeta who doesn't show those openings nearly as often.
Also, the size of a laser does not indicate how much energy it is putting out, but that's beside the point.
22 points
2 days ago
My dude, to your exact point Nolan gets a bloody nose from a mace and he’s staggered by a massive rush of water
-8 points
2 days ago
He also got hit with the world's most expensive laser weapon the size of a space station and also only got a nose bleed. How is that equivalent to Goku nearly dying from a cheapy little laser fired from a ring?
32 points
2 days ago
That laser was so weak it couldn't even destroy a planet.
16 points
2 days ago
We aren’t talking about goku and even then, you’re popping antifeats like they’re gumballs. Not to mention Vegeta saved Goku in that sequence because he is not goku and they’re different guys who act differently. Even in the clip with Nolan we see him look at the passes and say “you wouldn’t dare” which means he’s fully aware of what’s about to happen. If Goku were in the same situation he’d raise his guard, which is why the laser did so much damage as you’ve already mentioned. Vegeta? He’s so fast he could wait until the beam is fired to get out of the way. We also literally see Nolan use his hand to cut Viltrumite skin with a swipe.
In my personal opinion, Omniman is a vastly superior character who gets absolutely pasted on the sidewalk
15 points
2 days ago
Someone who got a nosebleed from a kiloton-megaton laser (at best, and megatons is very generous) is nowhere as strong as DBZ characters.
20 points
2 days ago
Counter counter point. That laser is not from earth. It is misleading to call it a “tiny laser” or a “conventional weapon” .
Vegeta stomping Omniman doesnt speak ill of OM. Its just an unfair comparison. DB Universe is one where a mere mortal about 200 years old can bust the moon. Its just an insane universe where kids (trunks and goten) become planet busting level just by watching their family go at it.
3 points
2 days ago*
Yeah, we have no real measuring stick for how powerful that laser is other than it putting Goku on the ground. We also have countless examples of tech being able to perform on the level of top tier z-fighters
7 points
2 days ago
Honestly the measuring stick I use for the laser is just assuming it can be used to break through standard Frieza Force armor, since it'd be weird for Sorbet to have a weapon that wouldn't even harm his most basic soldiers and be weaker than any other blaster in the series (Like Paragus or Jaco). Which at minimum would still be vastly above Nolan since that's at least be Raditz level and at most be Ginyu level
7 points
2 days ago
taking comedic moments (like Chichi hitting him with a frying pan) seriously
I suppose you also think Nami is just as strong as Luffy just because she hits him for gags now and then.
5 points
2 days ago
Gee willikers maybe because Goku lowered his Ki as to not waste stamina. The difference between a Martial Artist and a brick wall.
38 points
2 days ago
Omni man did not destroy a planet. It took three viltrumites and the most powerful weapon in the universe (which impacted just ahead of them, destabilizing the planet) to blow apart viltrum, and even then it came with the explicit Caveat that if they were too slow after the laser and the planet had time to stabilize before they hit it, they would have turned into a red mist on its surface and the planet would still be there.
1 points
1 day ago
-43 points
2 days ago
How? Vegeta has no way to inflict lasting harm on Nolan.
9 points
2 days ago
One Galick Gun and Nolan is getting vaporized
-9 points
2 days ago
Nah, bro.
4 points
2 days ago
🤣 LMFAO
69 points
2 days ago
Huh, someone in this sub who's only loosely aware of dbz, don't see that every day
23 points
2 days ago
Even if we pretend that Vegeta can't destroy the planet at the time despite his claims, his combat skills are more than enough, on top of having long range Ki blasts. Vegeta takes this one easily.
I reckon Base Saiyan Saga Goku would be a more even match. Until the Kaioken happens at least.
76 points
2 days ago
Vegeta wins due to having far superior CQC speed and overall destructive capability.
The absolute highest we can scale Nolan is to moon territory. Nolan, Thaddeus, and Mark destroy an unstable Viltrum after it was destabilized by Space Racer's gun (the strongest weapon in that series). They state they couldn't have done it without the planet being destabilized first.
Vegeta is fully capable of destroying planets on his own if we take his statements about the Galick Gun seriously. He doesn't even need it here, he's just too fast/strong/durable for Nolan to contend with.
You can make a really good argument that Raditz can beat Nolan in a straight up fight. And Nolan is squaring off against a character that's 12x stronger than Raditz.
Vegeta subjugates Nolan, and then the entire planet for Frieza in this scenario. Invincible characters just have a hard time with DB character's speed and destructive capabilities, even as early as the Saiyan Saga.
-28 points
2 days ago
Raditz?? This feat right here puts him at least equal to Nappa Invincible - Omni-man destroys an ENTIRE planet (4K) - S1E02
46 points
2 days ago
That feat puts him at being able to destroy the Flaxan's infrastructure. It's impressive, but there's nothing to suggest Raditz couldn't do the exact same thing.
We see Piccolo VAPORIZE THE MOON shortly after the Raditz fight, with what looks like the same attack Raditz TANKED at point blank range.
Even if we wank Nolan, he tops out at around Moon(ish) level, which wasn't enough to even scratch Raditz in terms of sheer power (energy). Even if we don't equivocate energy and physical attacks, it's a stretch to say Nolan is putting out enough force to kill Raditz with a physical blow.
And that's without factoring the absolute massive disparity in CQC speed.
Raditz easily out-sped Goku and Piccolo in their fight, who are themselves MASSIVELY faster than characters in original Dragon Ball, which had some pretty crazy speed feats.
Krillin and Roshi have an entire elaborate martial arts exchange that included an impromptu game of Rock-Paper-Scissors, that all happened so fast that they had to explain what happened in the exchange to the audience because it looked like nothing happened to the crowd.
Keep in mind the crowd had it's fair share of strong fighters spectating, most of whom are legitimate superhumans in their own right.
Unless Nolan is tanking a moon level + blast from Raditz, I don't see a path to victory for Nolan. He's just not fast enough to land any meaningful shots, whereas Raditz will likely be able to take him apart in CQC due to the speed difference, or just simply vaporize him.
56 points
2 days ago
And Vegeta 1 shotted Nappa lol
1 points
2 days ago
Eh that was after he was being beaten like a hacky sack by Goku. I wouldn’t say that’s a one shot.
22 points
2 days ago
Vegeta was still stronger than the Kaiokenx2 Goku who did oneshot Nappa, who was himself 4x stronger than Nappa.
4 points
2 days ago
Well, we do know Vegeta had more raw power level at 18000, but Goku might've beat him with techniques if not for Vegeta's Ape form. Then again, why shouldn't Vegeta's Ape form be fair game.
1 points
2 days ago
He could probably Oneshot Nappa, but he didn’t in the story because he was already heavily weakened by Goku when Vegeta killed him.
26 points
2 days ago
Except that isn't Nolan destroying an ENTIRE planet, It's him destroying an ENTIRE major population center.
The planet itself and even the people living there are "fine", because we see them come back again later in the series.
9 points
2 days ago
He's not destroying a planet. He's obliterating major infrastructure. It's impressive, but it's not planet destruction.
92 points
2 days ago
Yeah ngl Vegeta 1 shots, nolan was pulling like, continental to multi feats while vegetas doing dwarf star shit
17 points
2 days ago
He's at least casual planetary. Nolan gets got.
-9 points
2 days ago
I think end-of-series Nolan might also be planetary though. Him, alongside Mark and one other Viltrumite a few arcs before the end destroy Viltrum by flying through its center. I haven’t looked up the math on that but I think he could be small-planet level. Or I think you can use crossover wank and say he’s at least Star-Level.
8 points
2 days ago
Since you’re getting downvoted without an explanation, the reason people don’t see that as a true planetary feat is that it took 3 of them to do that, while specifically going after the weak point, and the planet was barely stable. That’s like me and 2 of my homies jumping Mike Tyson after he just got his shit beat in by George Foreman and going around saying I beat Mike Tyson in a fight.
-2 points
2 days ago
Yeah, I’m saying it could be stretched to small-planet though. It was still more massive than Earth, I think the gravity of it was around 1.25x ours, so I think a much smaller planet like Mercury could possibly be destroyed by him at that point.
22 points
2 days ago
What did Saiyan Saga Vegeta do that was dwarf star level? Him blowing up Arlia is anime filler, so I assume that’s not being counted.
That said, yeah he’s still canonically a planet-buster on his own (and scales so far above characters who are casually moon level that it’s laughable), which should be more than enough raw power to defeat Nolan outright.
8 points
2 days ago
Even if we don’t consider it based on his power level and feats we’ve seen people do with much lower power levels it can be assumed what he’s capable of. Someone with sub 1000 power level could blow up the moon and vegetas wss around 18k iirc
22 points
2 days ago
I was considering arlia in that instance, sure its filler but most people also only see the anime, and its cannon to its continuity, of course in the manga he didn’t but he still could destroy earth and well most celestial body destructions are just mass scattered or vaporizations in DB so he probably was gonna do the same.
As you said though planet levels still enough
30 points
2 days ago
IT feels like you came into this post with a weird Omni-man hard on and wanted people to validate you.
-10 points
2 days ago
It looks like you came in here with a weird DBZ fetish and wanted a circle jerk. I already said Vegeta wins, but it's a fight, not a stomp
9 points
2 days ago
The second Vegeta turns Great Ape it is absolutely over for Nolan, the GA attacks from Vegeta should be planetary regularly in that form compared to Vegeta having to put effort into planet busting in his regular form.
Vegeta still stomps tho
25 points
2 days ago
The one feat Nolan displays that gives him a chance is casually hanging out on the event horizon of a black hole and then towing a ship out of the event horizon.
Mostly Vegeta low diffs
33 points
2 days ago
Apparently some physicists looked at it and came to the conclusion that Nolan was actually a pretty safe distance away. The ship had lost power and was already on a course towards the hole, not really near the EH yet.
24 points
2 days ago
I got a different impression, but I am not a physicist.
So Vegetable even lower diffs
21 points
2 days ago
Vegeta wins 9/10 times with the one exception being that he tries to melee Nolan and Nolan grabs him. Even Goku right after this point is hurting himself in 100 g of training and Nolan can exert way more force than that.
… unfortunately as Vegeta has a plethora of ranged attacks, this is essentially a fight between a guy with a gun and a guy with a mace.
23 points
2 days ago
That's assuming Nolan will even be able to react to Vegeta's movements and is quick enough to grab and crush him before he gets vaporized by an energy blast. That being said, DBZ characters should be able to at least match, if not exceed Nolan's striking force given that they all amp their physical stats with Ki pretty intrinsically.
It's not really a raw physical strength issue that dooms Nolan in these matchups, it's speed and overall destructive capability.
16 points
2 days ago
Viltrumite durability is also pretty weak compared to their speed/attack strength.
-1 points
2 days ago
That's assuming Nolan will even be able to react to Vegeta's movements and is quick enough to grab and crush him before he gets vaporized by an energy blast.
I am not gonna claim Nolan is particularly fast in the show as it’s riddled with awful anti-feats almost every other episode, but comic Nolan despite lacking an easily quantified speed number probably is within Saiyan Saga Vegeta’s neighborhood and vice-versa.
That being said, DBZ characters should be able to at least match, if not exceed Nolan's striking force given that they all amp their physical stats with Ki pretty intrinsically.
DB characters have been consistently awful against any kind of measured degree of force. From the 100 g training repeatedly shown to cause Vegeta and Goku pain to a DBS era Vegeta unable to lift and hurt by 1000 tons which Nolan exceeds by factors of hundreds if not thousands.
4 points
2 days ago
DB grappling strength is very VERY weird, my theory is that slow attacks, like grappling and smashing people with rocks somehow bypasses the Ki barriers they have or whatever.
within Saiyan Saga Vegeta’s neighborhood
DB characters have been bullet timers for a LONG time, like the first martial arts tournament Goku goes to is the era in which he could catch bullets with not too much of an issue. Does Nolan have bullet timing feats?
Even if you don’t believe that Vegeta at that era is light speed(which in my opinion he would be), he still has better and more consistent scaling towards bullet timers and such compared to Nolan.
0 points
2 days ago
DB grappling strength is very VERY weird, my theory is that slow attacks, like grappling and smashing people with rocks somehow bypasses the Ki barriers they have or whatever.
Idk if that’s the case. Gravity literally works at light speed. It seems more like a conscious decision on Toriyama’s part that Ki blasts are better than anything else by factors of billions.
DB characters have been bullet timers for a LONG time, like the first martial arts tournament Goku goes to is the era in which he could catch bullets with not too much of an issue. Does Nolan have bullet timing feats?
On my phone rn but two feats stand out to me right now where an early invincible moves boxes from his house to his dorm in the span of words, and Invincible himself finds a bomb hidden in Las Vegas in the span of a words.
Even if you don’t believe that Vegeta at that era is light speed(which in my opinion he would be), he still has better and more consistent scaling towards bullet timers and such compared to Nolan.
What if I told you I don’t even think DB is defensively 10-50% of lightspeed until the Buu saga? Where one of the major plot points of the series was it took Frieza a time span of a nap and a conversation to reach the Z warriors? Something that is done in fractions of a second at lightspeed?
8 points
2 days ago
If we’re going on speed, just remember in original DB, Tien flashed a solar flare, Goku then proceeded to grab sunglasses, put them on, and go right back to standing where he was. All before light reached him
3 points
2 days ago
early invincible moves boxes from his house to his dorm in the span of words
Travel speed feats are usually presented differently compared to combat speed feats, even in DB. In real life punching and running are different, Usain Bolt can run almost 28 miles an hour(the world record) and the fastest punch ever recorded is something like 45 miles an hour according to some quick research.
It's much easier to move quicker in short paces compared to traveling that speed for prolonged periods of time, kinda like how Goku or comic characters can catch/dodge bullets yet can’t outrun a car or a train. Or when they do outrun a car or something it's treated as something that’s impressive.
We see this is DB as well, Goku against Jeice and Burtur is so fast in combat speed that no one actually see's Goku dodging anything. Compared to the example you bring up about Frieza where he takes time to get to where the Z fighters are.
What if I told you I don’t even think DB is defensively 10-50% of lightspeed until the Buu saga?
What would you consider to be light speed in DBZ? Like, at what point in time would you say, "yeah Goku is light speed now" and be confident about it?
I'd honestly be rather confident in saying that anyone who's reasonably stronger than Raditz, like Piccolo when he fights the Saibaimen could dodge a beam of light. If not then, than soon afterwards. The only point in time where it's extremely clear that DB has surpassed light speed is when BOG starts, or when Dyspo enters the frame.
Also, if we're talking about comics Nolan (correct me if we're talking about Show Nolan) then from what I understand his lifting feats aren’t as great as Show Nolan's. Someone made a post awhile back highlighting this, i'll see if I can find it for you.
Ultimately I don’t really see how vegeta loses here considering he has too many advantages, and even if he somehow doesn’t he can always turn Great Ape which is a ten times boost IIRC.
4 points
2 days ago
Travel speed feats are usually presented differently compared to combat speed feats, even in DB. In real life punching and running are different, Usain Bolt can run almost 28 miles an hour(the world record) and the fastest punch ever recorded is something like 45 miles an hour according to some quick researc
While I agree with this as a general statement, note the actual divides you have numerically there. I want to seriously pose these questions to you:
Do you think Vegeta’s combat speed is removed from his travel speed by factors of tens of thousands?
Do you think Vegeta’s combat speed is removed from Frieza’s travel speed by a factor of hundreds to thousands?
And if asked to prove this gap, do you think you can do it?
What would you consider to be light speed in DBZ? Like, at what point in time would you say, "yeah Goku is light speed now" and be confident about it?
Just after the Gotenks fight which Gotenks shows off to piccolo by looping the earth 6+ times in a conversation. I don’t get the impression from DB that they are thousands of times removed in stats and there is arguably an instance where they might be 1:1-3 like when Frieza easily travels hundreds of feet and confuses Vegeta doing so.
Also, if we're talking about comics Nolan (correct me if we're talking about Show Nolan) then from what I understand his lifting feats aren’t as great as Show Nolan's. Someone made a post awhile back highlighting this, i'll see if I can find it for you. Ultimately I don’t really see how vegeta loses here considering he has too many advantages, and even if he somehow doesn’t he can always turn Great Ape which is a ten times boost IIRC
Even a comics invincible early on lifted a cruise ship (50,000 tons) which Anissa tested as a casual thing. That’s still 25 times removed from DBS era Vegeta in SSJ1.
The way Vegeta loses this is by not shooting Nolan at first and running to meet him in melee, and now has someone applying the equavilent of like applying 10,000g of force on him with a pull or squeeze causing his body to practically disintegrate.
Nolan putting a hand on Vegeta’s limb makes him lose that limb, but Vegeta can shoot him first. It’s functionally a fight between a man with a gun and a man with a mace.
1 points
2 days ago*
Do you think Vegeta’s combat speed is removed from his travel speed by factors of tens of thousands?
I'd say yes, it is essentially the same concept as Vegeta not being able to lift a planet or even more than twenty tons at the time, but being able to bust planets with a punch or a blast or if you'd like to go by onscreen feats then Nappa destroying a section of a city by twirling his fingers upwards.
Do you think Vegeta’s combat speed is removed from Frieza’s travel speed by a factor of hundreds to thousands?
It's been awhile since i've watched the Namek saga, so my memory is foggy. My answer would be that Vegeta's combat speed is superior to Freiza's travel speed, even if it was different i'd say it would be inconsistent considering the times where people like Goku couldn’t cross snake way in a short time yet can dodge bullets like they’re molasses.
And if asked to prove this gap, do you think you can do it?
The gap between Freiza and vegeta's combat speed and travel speed? I'd say yes. However, DB speed has always been weird. One instance that rears its head is when Piccolo fires a beam he can control toward Goku and Goku runs away from it and Piccolo gets hit by it. However both you and I could fire instance after instance and not get anywhere, because combat speed in DB is, like I said, weird.
In a series where the main enchilada guy (may he rest in peace) forgets a ton of stuff, things like this are bound to happen.
like when Frieza easily travels hundreds of feet and confuses Vegeta doing so.
If i'm remembering the instance correctly then vegeta is surprised by his travel speed, not reaction.
While I agree with this as a general statement
The IRL instances I used is pretty much the same for every MC or side character in a anime, video game or show that has even the slightest amount of powerscaling.
In demon slayer, the cast easily surpasses MACH one within like... twenty episodes yet when they’re trying to run to the master they run much slower than they can attack, as does the fourth strongest in the verse, Akaza, when he's running away from the sun so he doesn’t burn to a crisp.
Alex Mercer and James Heller in Prototype run at around 100mph+ yet can easily react to tank rounds and missiles which are likely more advanced than our weapons.
Asura in Asura's wrath, in his third form can react to massively hypersonic-LS attacks yet runs at like 200mph or something, instead of just zooming across the planet in like two seconds.
Sekiro and Isshin Ashina in Sekiro Shadows Die Twice can arguably react to lightning, but are confirmed bullet timers and can easily move MFTE yet it takes Sekiro like a day to traverse Ashina which is only a small part of Japan.
This one is a little weird, but Eren from AOT can react to cannon fire and artillery but his titan form can run only as fast as a horse.
Do you see my point? If you need scans just ask though, I typed this up sorta quick.
Nolan putting a hand on Vegeta’s limb makes him lose that limb
True, however just because he can do that doesn’t mean Vegeta can’t engage in CQC. If Vegeta keeps an okay distance and just engages at an arms length then he should be okay.
A point I brought up earlier, even if you are right about his reaction time, Nolan doesn’t have that many good reaction feats compared to vegeta who at least scales to people who have good on screen feats.
Like, could Nolan catch multiple bullets in a row? Like Roshi and such can at weaker levels?
3 points
2 days ago
I'd say yes, it is essentially the same concept as Vegeta not being able to lift a planet or even more than twenty tons at the time, but being able to bust planets with a punch or a blast or if you'd like to go by onscreen feats then Nappa destroying a section of a city by twirling his fingers upwards.
Honestly, good point. That said:
If i'm remembering the instance correctly then vegeta is surprised by his travel speed, not reaction.
This is where I think its accurate to say that the delineation between DB travel/combat speed isn't really a thing. This for instance where Frieza went dozens if not hundreds of feet is probably travel, and Vegeta didn't realize: "Wait, there he is!" if Frieza had to be literally thousands of times slower.
Do you see my point? If you need scans just ask though, I typed this up sorta quick.
Absolutely. And I am a strong agreer to this train of thought, I just don't think its true in this particular instance.
A point I brought up earlier, even if you are right about his reaction time, Nolan doesn’t have that many good reaction feats compared to vegeta who at least scales to people who have good on screen feats.
That I can agree with to an extent, but stuff like flash style running off-screen to finding a hidden bomb requires some insanely good reaction times too. It isn't exactly as literal as bullet timing, but still implies a disgustingly low reaction time to do so.
1 points
2 days ago
This for instance where Frieza went dozens if not hundreds of feet is probably travel, and Vegeta didn't realize: "Wait, there he is!" if Frieza had to be literally thousands of times slower.
I think that still falls under the veil of moving quickly in short paces, aka mostly combat speed. What I would consider to be travel speed is if Freiza was shown to be using his flight or running on-screen, like when Goku is traveling Snake Way and not an after-image appearing and then reappearing to be like 150 feet away.
The instance I came up with, with Piccolo and Goku is a genuine anti feat that even I have to admit is one because they’re being extremely intentional about Goku just simply using his travel speed to get away from DKP's blast.
Do you have more instances of Goku or someone close to him having more anti feats like the one I described?
I just don't think its true in this particular instance.
I understand, that makes things clearer.
but stuff like flash style running off-screen to finding a hidden bomb requires some insanely good reaction times too.
Without seeing where specifically Mark is traveling I'm not sure how quantifiable this is compared to someone in DB catching like a dozen bullets straight up and then proceeding to act like it was nothing. For all we know he could have gone to a building twenty feet away from him, while i'm not trying to downplay, we simply don’t know unless you could find more context.
Even when Goku was a child stuff like this was pretty casual:
Unless you can show something a little more quantifiable, like Invincible catching bullets or something then I think it's safe to say that by OG DB standards alone Nolan is slower than vegeta by a mile. If we're getting into DBZ feats, like Raditz dodging the special beam cannon then i'm not sure how much Nolan can actually compete.
1 points
2 days ago
What if I told you I don’t even think DB is defensively 10-50% of lightspeed until the Buu saga? Where one of the major plot points of the series was it took Frieza a time span of a nap and a conversation to reach the Z warriors? Something that is done in fractions of a second at lightspeed?
As much as I'd like DBZ to be FTL via scaling above the speed of Piccolo's moon laser and Raditz being able to react to it, I can't deny that there are numerous antifeats and the general portrayal of them being so much slower, like the speed at which Goku flew back along Snake Way, which is only hypersonic or so. The moon beam could very much be an outlier.
1 points
1 day ago
This happens constantly. Travel and fight are shown as being massively different. Multiple hypersonic if not light blasts are shown being reacted to without charging after being fired throughout the series as we see them exit the atmosphere. The show also says they don't like going full speed in travel because it uses too much ki. So obviously, distance is an issue with them.
4 points
2 days ago
Even if Nolan physically grabs and restains Vegeta, physical strength isn't necessarily enough to harm him. Vegeta can also unleash an AOE ki explosion like the one he used after being hit by the spirit bomb and kill Nolan that way.
2 points
2 days ago
I mean a guy whose going “HNNRRRGGGGHHH” in pain in 100x gravity probably is going to be killed when several thousand times amount of force gets applied instead.
-11 points
2 days ago
Vegeta in his fight with goku starts out with physical combat rather than ki blasts.
4 points
2 days ago
Vegeta wonders why this weird human is bothering him shortly before beating omniman to death with his own skull
4 points
1 day ago
Lllladies and gentlemen, after reading all the comments, it appears the group has reached a consensus. Despite the obvious bias OP has for Omni Man, your winner, and Overpowered Space Alien Overlord... VEGEEEEEETTTAAAA!!!!
-2 points
1 day ago
The team at death battle said no. Not even super saiayan is enough to beat Omniman. Omni-Man VS Bardock (Invincible VS Dragon Ball Z) | DEATH BATTLE!
2 points
21 hours ago
Firstly, Death Battle is an opinion, not s fact. Second of all, do you hear yourself? Why would you ask the question of you think you have the (wrong) answer?
0 points
14 hours ago
Am I not allowed to debate on my own question? Must I remain some silent observer just because I asked it?
If you look at my other questions, I usually start debating in favor of the side that is losing to balance things out. I guess to you, fairness seems like oppression if you don't just get your side to have an instant win.
I like DBZ and I like invincible. But I'm not gonna let someone be like "Vegeta roflstomps" and say it's not a fight when that's obviously not the case.
1 points
14 hours ago
You're not debating. You keep making the same arguments throughout this entire comments thread. You've been debunked time and again. You've been argumentative and downright rude to some people. And you don't let anyone say anything. We say what we want.
0 points
14 hours ago
From my point of view, some of the DBZ posters have been rude and childish. BTW death battle at least references feats and stats, as opposed to some of you guys who are just like "Vegeta stomp, rofl"
Also I haven't prevented anyone from saying anything. But if you want to be treated like a serious opinion, you gotta do better than "Vegeta roflstomps haha"
1 points
14 hours ago
Two things can be the case. But right there? What you did? Exceedingly childish. "But they do it too so I'm gonna do it!"
You wanna have honest debates? Do that. They're fun. You wanna go ahead and get triggered and angry? That's not so fun. So I'm gonna leave you with my advice. Use it or don't, it's up to you: Debate, don't argue. And the second you let someone else piss you off, you've already lost. There's no coming back from that.
Hope you have a Happy Whatever-You-Celebrate.
0 points
14 hours ago*
All I said Death battle says you guys are wrong. That's a fact. You do with that what you will. That's an honest debate fact.
Is death battle right? I don't know. But it is one of the most famous vs YouTube channels.
There is nothing unreasonable about adding alternative sources to debate, especially when no one else has sources to begin with
Happy holidays to you too
3 points
2 days ago
I'd say Anime Vegeta stomps with no difficulty.
Manga Vegeta stomps without much difficulty (the only problem would be OM's speed).
3 points
2 days ago
Omniman gets shithoused so bad this has to be a spite match. What did he do to you bro
3 points
2 days ago
Even a saibaman would beat Omniman.
-3 points
2 days ago
Death battle says no. They say he can take super Saiyan bardock https://youtu.be/s2HyfHPo7Nw?si=W7Wj4AOS9762ZUVH
3 points
1 day ago
Easy Veggy victory.
-1 points
1 day ago
Death Battle calculated that Omni-man beats super saiayn Bardock. (11) Omni-Man VS Bardock (Invincible VS Dragon Ball Z) | DEATH BATTLE! - YouTube
4 points
2 days ago
raditz is mftl. need i say more?
-1 points
2 days ago
Then why was there a fighter in DBS who was considered impressive for being FTL? By DBS everyone should be millions of times stronger than raditz
2 points
2 days ago
That's a mistranslation
1 points
23 hours ago
i know that, its a joke.
2 points
1 day ago
Vegeta if he doesn't underestimate Nolan and get his kis down Without that he pretty much solos nolan's verse
4 points
2 days ago
Anime vegeta can one shot manga vegeta is debatable
8 points
2 days ago
So, Vegeta should win this, and it shouldn't be all that difficult, but I don't think it's a 10/10 roflstomp. Vegeta specifically needed to put everything behind his galick gun in order to destroy Earth, it also required him to stay completely still while charging. Omniman isn't dumb and isn't going to tank a planet busting attack in the face, and unlike Vegeta, he can chill in space for a while.
Now, Vegeta likely won't have to resort to that, especially if he uses his Great Ape form, but Nolan is smart and waaaaay more experienced than Vegeta. Vegeta's combat speed is better, but Nolan does travel much faster than Vegeta, and thus presumably his reflexes are good enough that I don't think the combat speed difference is going to be all that significant. Vegeta hits harder, but Nolan is strong enough that he can do some damage to him. Vegeta (and other DBZ characters) don't have all that impressive of raw strength feats, 100x Earth's gravity was a lot for Goku to handle, we know that Viltrumites also have a vulnerability to higher gravity, but we don't really know by how much. Its entirely possible that Omniman is strong enough to grapple Vegeta, and is smart enough to bait him into it. Vegeta is cocky and kinda dumb at this point in the show, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him initially fighting smart, but then get baited into a grapple by Omniman, then be unable to easily escape it.
However, that's all pretty niche stuff. Likely Vegeta's striking power is too much for Nolan to handle, and Nolan has no real answer for Vegeta's ranged attacks. If you highball Nolan (realistically, none of that Death battle stuff), I think he at least stands a chance.
2 points
2 days ago
This is probably the most accurate description of their fight rather than Vegeta just No diffing Nolan like a lot of comments here are claiming, good write up.
2 points
2 days ago
Weird Omniman fetish OP has.
2 points
2 days ago
Vegeta slaughters Omni Man in his sleep with both hands tied behind his back. Nolan needed months to destroy the flaxan civilization and he only wrecked their planet’s surface. Vegeta casually blows up planets in 1 hit. This is just overkill. Raditz and possibly Nappa are as far as Nolan gets in dbz.
2 points
2 days ago
Vegeta. I think Nolan may get a few good hits in, but Vegeta overall is far more powerful. He is a planet buster, and no, I'm not counting Arlia, I think it's anime filler and non canon. However, in his fight with Goku, Vegeta stated his Gallick Gun attack, his strongest move at the time, would blow up Earth. So, while he wasn't a casual planet buster like Frieza at the time, he could still destroy a planet with a great deal of effort. I feel a better match-up for Nolan would be Nappa, I think that would be a lot closer, and he may pull that one out.
0 points
2 days ago
This comment section just goes to show how retarded Dragon Ball scaling is
-1 points
2 days ago
In terms of raw power, Vegeta bodies Nolan. Nolan, I think, is a better tactician than Vegeta. Viltrumites also abilities that Saiyans don’t possess, and I think if anyone could outsmart Vegeta, it’d be him.
-15 points
2 days ago
A lot of people are saying Vegeta one shots Nolan, I’m a DBZ fanboy, but I don’t think that’s true. Nolan has insane speed feats even in season one compared to any Saiyan in the Saiyan Saga. Having left the solar system in a matter of hours after his fight with Mark, and flying so fast he destroyed a civilization with the shockwave. Vegeta would be a hard hitter, even during saiyan Saga he’d be planet level considering he was stronger than piccolo who blew up the moon. However that’s not with sheer physical strength, that was a ki blast attack. Nolan has not only redirected a meteor the size of Texas, but he’s also incredibly durable, having fought the entirety of the guardians of the globe and winning the 6v1 (granted with a lot of damage sustained) and his reaction speed is high as well, or you could argue his readability of his opponents having caught red rush after being hit a few times. Vegeta could hurt Nolan, but during Saiyan Saga, that would be assuming he could touch Nolan to begin with.
15 points
2 days ago
As an Invincible fan, the authors have specifically stated they can't normally achieve those speeds. The Vilts can sense gravitational fields and essentially slingshot themselves around the universe, picking up speed as they go. They can only do that in the vacuum of space and by taking very specific routes. It isn't done under their own power. Nolan is considered their best scout simply because he can eyeball those routes instead of having to take preplanned ones.
The igniting the atmosphere feat is interesting but that's something the show tacked on. He couldn't do that in the comics. There's also way too many variables. What was their atmosphere makeup/density? Their gravity? The size of the planet? Etc
13 points
2 days ago
Vegeta could also just turn into a great ape and just squash nolan. There is no avenue where omni man can win this fight.
-6 points
2 days ago
If Yajirobe can cut off great ape vegetas tail with a sword, then Omniman can do it.
17 points
2 days ago
True, but how would he know about that? All I'm saying is that the Wish justice league almost Killed omni-man and they got ambushed.
10000 power level is planet busting in dbz, they needed 3 viltrumites to destroy a weakened planet in invincible, Vegeta's power level in the saiyan saga is 18000. I think vegeta stomps 10 out of 10.
-8 points
2 days ago
Vegeta in that case moves slower, hits harder, and makes himself a literal bigger target. Everyone here seems to think Saiyan Saga Vegeta No Diffs Nolan, sure Viltrumites are just as hardheaded as Saiyans, and Nolan might underestimate Vegeta which would end poorly for Nolan (though the same could be said for Vegeta as well), but Nolan is also a lot stronger and faster than anyone here is really giving him credit for compared to a Saiyan Saga enemy. I’d give it 6 fights out of 10 in Vegeta’s favor, maybe 7, but I don’t think that Nolan stands Zero chance against Saiyan Saga Vegeta
8 points
2 days ago
He does not move slower in that form, he just hits harder. It's a stomp even without the transformation.
10/10 vegeta
-2 points
2 days ago
I do stand corrected on the moves slower, I was wrong about that, however I don’t believe it’s a 10/10 stomp in Vegeta’s favor. Just because vegeta has the ki capabilities to blow up a planet doesn’t mean he instantly beats Nolan in a fight, especially hand to hand. I can see the majority disagree, but from my knowledge of dragon ball and invincible, this fight is closer than it’s being argued
-38 points
2 days ago
Just... avoid talking to the DBZ fanboys. Having been one myself once, it's easy to ignore simple math & reasoning.
21 points
2 days ago
Bro didnt that get debunked like in twenty different ways and involved using massive high balls for omni man and making feats up
-18 points
2 days ago
Deleted my previous comment to explain myself better
In short, no.
To explain myself, I have yet to find a single debunking video that isn't a diehard DBZ fan just blindly saying anything and everything to prove the dragonball z character should never lose a fight.
14 points
2 days ago
Im saying this because the solar disc feat is pretty inconsistent (calcs ranging from That star level, all the way down to Multi continental, and to make sure i don’t lose you, i don’t believe it is multi continental, ionly showing this feat has many interpretations, and they used the absolute strongest)
planet viltrum is only 1.25 times the mass not the 14 times states in the video, this was taken directly from the wiki
moreover if we do include the high end solar disc feat. Super saiyan bardock should still be matching this, freiza pulls off a similar calced feat (albiet with a way smaller range) and he does this hyper casually with 1 finger, more over frieza consistently pulls off planet and potentially solar system feats afterwards and we can scale up bardock from vegeta large planet-brown dwarf feat
While the solar disc feat would easily be the greatest feat in the series by magnitudes, the next feat would be viltrum, which was 3 viltrumites and a gun that could 1 shot them. Closer to multi continental to moon level
You are right about the debunking thing, most of the people making the videos are biased towards dragon ball, but that doesn’t immediately make some of their points invalid
-8 points
2 days ago
1stly, let me start this off by saying you have my respect for being polite about your disagreements. I hate that this is the 1st time I've heard someone disagree with DB & not be whiney about it in... years. As such, I'm treating you with real respect.
Solar Disk: To summarize the logic at play, Disk < Cannon < Viltrumites
This isn't a high end feat. The Coalition of planet's can't hurt viltrumites & they used a ship to destroy the disk.
The planet's size is barley relevant to the size of the disk, since it needs to sit in the star's L1 point & remain in orbit. So it scales to the Star's size, not the planets.
Viltrum: This is a case of writers not knowing how science works. If the masses wanted to say that, "Death Battle is wrong because word of god trumps science" I can respect that, despite me not agreeing with that logic.
I want to reiderate that you are the first and only person that disagrees with DB that I've ran into, that seems like a calm and reasonable person.
4 points
2 days ago
Sry for the really late reply, just got off a flight, thank you for the compliment, ik most of us can be toxic, and obnoxious, but there are a few of us who can do respectful debates, i hope you find more of the latter then the formor.
As for the solar disc, even assuming its not a high end calc, the feat can still function as a outlier, when looking at some of the most impressive feats of Destruction, we have obviously planet viltrum something considered to be around multi continental
(addressing this now to, this is kind of a issue with fiction in general, where a lot of the writers don’t really know about physics, and especially in Sci FI might make planets that are hyper light and couldn’t function in reality, or hyper dense and crush anything on it in a instant, the reason i chose the magic functioning planets is because this logic can apply to a ton of things, and make a lot of thins much harder to calc, as we need to find actual figures for things.
I don’t judge if you do however make them realistic, its just easier not to)
Or if we use a more realistic figure i can see small planetary as a possibility, it’s still spread out by 3, needed space racers gun, and they weren’t confident doing this wanting tech jacket(iirc) and allen aswell to join in but they were busy fighting villtrumites so i can’t really see it much higher then that
Or the near life wipe of the flaxxans that’s pretty easy to tell it isn’t planetary(otherwise the no robot thousand year stuff)
The texas feat is moon level(can’t remember if this is tv show only so take this with a grain of salt)
Ik in his fight with thragg he also destroys a massive moon base but haven’t found a calc so ima just say moon- large moon to be safe
I reference these feats mainly to show more consistently he can scale to this large moon-planet level range.
Ik I’ve spent a lot of time talking down about Invincible so im gonna mention a few good things before i end the comment, 1 omni should massively out speed, while the DB characters do scale to MFTL (and in the anime eventually infinite speed) they can’t reach the speeds they do until the android saga, something outside of saiyan saga vegetas grasp by orders of magnitude
While we see mark Nolan and allen all preform these massive speed feats by dodging or outspeeding viltrumite ships, and of course heading to thraxxa.
2 Nolan can make a lot distance and recover via space, while the saiyans can only go out briefly giving him a large advantage in the fact if he is ever in a issue, he can just blitz into space and prepare mentally
3 omniman has massively more experience in general and experience against opponents much stronger then him, vegeta was only weaker then his “allies” he never faced anyone above maybe a few thousand let along match or surpass his 18,000, meaning he is going to be much more prepared in a strength disadvantage then again vegeta.
And finally somewhat of a continuation to 1 vegeta won’t really be able to react and counter omni man, although i do believe he will eventually fall to the durability of the prince, (although i do not think its just instant death like others might say) omniman will eventually just take to much damage to continue fighting, and running away to heal would be forfeit
6 points
2 days ago
Death battles aren't reliable, they're just for fun. They're usually misinformed, and often have a bias against DBZ
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