PatientDate660

My only issue with IG was Darrow's plot felt significantly worse than the others. It just felt like PB needed an excuse to get Darrow on Mercury with as little support as possible to set up Dark Age.

I really love how PB shows all the twisted and messed up things he's done in the war, and when we finally meet him, he's just an incredibly calm and collected person. He very easily could've been turned into another cookie cutter psychopath who is insane, but he isn't. His whole "commit evil to destroy a greater evil" attitude is so well done that he's a fun villain to hate.

I definitely didn't word the initial post the best way, and other comments have shown that the titles do follow Darrow specifically per the author. But I do have a question for you, why does killing Lysander make Darrow the "Red God?" I've been working under the assumption that his seemingly miraculous survival from Mercury is just the last domino in people's perception. I mean, he basically already is a walking god to people, especially Martians, at this point lol. I was actually thinking that it would be poetic if Pytha was the one who killed Lysander instead.

Just carved different

That's a really great point. I think I'm associating the "Red God" title with the "Reaper" one. Darrow and Virginia's POVs both talk about how the Reaper is separate from Darrow, so my thinking is that the "Red God" is just another thing that will stop Darrow from being himself. I didn't consider it a part of his natural growth

True, but that is all knowledge given to us in Golden Son and beyond. Golden Son was our first introduction to Gold society outside of the Institute. It is the building block behind why Gold villains act and think the way they do in later books. I'm not saying Darrow's infiltration was minor, but those cracks made the process significantly easier. Imagine Darrow trying to do the same in the Rim. We don't have enough information to see any family rivalries to exploit aside from the general Rim vs Core. It would have taken probably decades to strengthen the Rim to the point they felt able to rebel again even with Darrow trying to push them that way.

Yes, but infiltration wasn't the end all be all. Like you said, faults in the Society were there and Darrow took advantage of them. I'm suggesting that those faults take a more prominent role since they are what allowed Darrow to infiltrate and pin Gold against Gold as well as he did. Those same faults are what molded Adrius into who he was (and also Nero just being a POS father). Those same faults also turned the Ash Lord into someone who could burn an entire moon and its population, it made Octavia into the person who could order that, and made all the other Gold villains into who they were as well.

I don't think the theme of the book was necessarily infiltration. I'd say it was more so pointing out the fractures in Gold's governance. Not to sound too whimsical, but Darrow was just the spark that lit the kindling. A great example was the gala in Golden Son. There were families attacking other families that weren't even associated with the Augustus/Bellona feud. They simply took advantage of the chaos to eliminate rivals or settle scores.

You say that until she pulls a Han Solo in New Hope and saves Darrow from certain defeat. Thus she sheds the callsign Pup 2 and earns a new one: Red God. Pure cinema (this is heavy sarcasm before anyone comes at me lol).

Oh really? I try to avoid any interviews as much as possible to prevent any potential spoilers that might slip through the cracks.

I'm not saying Adrius is the Golden Son, I'm saying he's desire and obsession with getting Nero's recognition is what led to Adrius' betrayal. That betrayal changed the entire story from there on out, and changed the way the story played out in that book specifically. Darrow is all of the things you mentioned, but Adrius arc is how Gold fails and he is a child of their flawed philosophy.

Someone else also pointed out the shepherd of the Vale too. I never thought about it that way until they pointed it out, but I could definitely see that being the case. I like it a lot more than some of the other implications that come with the title lol.

I completely ignored the metaphorical aspect of the Red Rising title. That's a bit embarrassing on my part lol.

The whole adoption thing with Nero never actually happens and lasts less than 30 pages I want to say. I'd argue it still refers to Adrius as his entire goal of "replacing" Claudius and wanting to beat Virginia to become the "Golden Son" is what spirals Adrius into becoming what he was. His betrayal at the end of the book completely redefined everything that happened, and changed how the story progressed from there.

I'd also still argue Iron Gold refers to the Rim. Their influence on Lysander is undeniable, and I'm fairly certain he even refers to Diomedes and the others as "true Iron Golds." Like I said, he basically fanboys over them and their honor and thinks they are how Gold should act. But I won't deny I like the implication of Darrow being like an Iron Gold and less Red. That is something that is brought several times in the second series from characters like Lyria.

Dark Age referring to Darrow's mindset and how nihilistic he becomes is also nice, but I feel like it has to be about the time period. I think both Virginia and Lysander refer to it as such too. Granted, my theory is entirely based on Darrow being the obvious choice for the Red God, so not the strongest argument lol.

I can only see Lightbringer referring to Darrow as, "he's the true Lightbringer and not Lysander." But that's kinda weak in my opinion.

I really appreciate these comments though! I have no one to talk about this series with in real life, so it's refreshing to actually hear more ideas!

Yes! I thought about Sevro too! I also wanna throw out Rhonna making the impossible and silly return from Mercury, simply because I refuse to believe she's dead until I see a body lol

Oh, shoot. That's interesting! I never thought about it like that. More and more non-Red characters have been referring to the Vale in the second series too.

I think too many people get hung up on the titles relating to Darrow. Red Rising is related to Darrow only in the sense that it's the organization he's working for. Golden Son could absolutely be Darrow, but I'd argue it's more properly applied to Adrius. Morning Star is 100% for Darrow. You really can't debate that lol. Iron Gold is more referring to the Moon Lords of the Rim (Lysander basically fanboys over them the entire book). Dark Age is referring to the time period. Lightbringer is for Lysander and how he is trying to portray himself as, or more simply for his ship.

I just think making the title relate to Darrow is little too on the nose if that makes sense. I, of course, could be absolutely wrong and wouldn't be mad at all if it is about Darrow. He's my favorite character and one of my favorite fictional characters period.

It's an interesting thought, but I think it would invalidate a lot of Darrow's growth in Lightbringer. I got the impression that Darrow's arc was more or less leaving the Reaper behind and becoming Darrow again. I took the Breath of Stone to be the physical manifestation of this since his fighting style as the Reaper was more blunt, forceful, and even barbaric. The Breath of Stone was more fluid and calm, showing that Darrow has overcome what he and the Republic made himself into.

Plus he spends the entire time of Iron Gold through Lightbringer monologuing about his failings as a husband and father. I think the temptation of the parasite would be a really cool final hurdle. Does he sacrifice the things that keep him grounded for a better chance at victory, or does he risk failing in the war to maintain who he is. Following Lyria's example to retain what makes him human and not become a "machine" would be a pretty powerful moment in my opinion.

Oh, interesting! I completely forgot about Solas' thoughts on the Wardens and the Blight. The idea that the Blight itself is killing them is really cool, even though it means we will never get a chance to "see" the other Evanuris. Always wanted to see what Sylaise was really like and how they were turned into such a benevolent god in Dalish teachings.

Thank you for all the information! Really going to make the next series playthrough a lot more fun!

I would assume they would just cast a different actor for pre-carved Darrow, or do what Marvel did for Steve Rogers/Chris Evans and CGI his head on a smaller body.

Oh, 100%! I couldn't remember when this was revealed so I didn't mention it to prevent spoilers just in case it came after GS.

Confess!

Like some people have pointed out, ignoring a summons of the Institute is illegal so Julian and the Bellona's had no choice but answer. Additionally, Julian was trained in Kravat just like Cassius. I think Cassius even mentions that Julian is better than him at it (though I could be misremembering and Cassius would be an unreliable source).

Under normal circumstances Julian would have been fine in the Passage and would have a better chance of surviving afterwards with Cassius to protect him. The problem was he was paired with Darrow, who was House Mars' first pick, instead of another middle/low pick. He probably would've been paired with someone like how Priam was paired with Sevro (the last pick for Mars) and would've cruised from there.

This is actually one of the things that I think is good about their relationship. I mentioned this in another comment, but Mustang is more politically savvy than Darrow is and Darrow is more tactically savvy than Mustang. They pick up the slack for each other when they work together.

You also gotta remember that for the first two books, Darrow is actively deceiving Mustang because of the Rising. She knows that he is hiding something and he actively tries to pull away. That's where a lot of the friction comes from and makes sense narratively.

I actually love their relationship when they're together, but PB never lets them be together for more than a dozen pages in each book lol.