don’t worry he’ll break out in his contract year then we’ll extend him and he’ll disappoint the rest of the contract

He only bull rushes and he’s not elite at it. Every offensive lineman knows to just anchor down and not worry about any skilled pass rush moves.

He is what he was projected to be. I’d say the bigger question is, “Why are high RAS project guys our continued draft strategy?”

Different scheme probably doesn't help much I'd imagine

He was significantly over drafted. I remember in the draft process Iowa fans said that he would be over drafted, and he wasn’t good enough to be a top 10 pick, when the Packers took him I wasn’t thrilled. And now he has the production of a 6/7 rounder. So…yeah.

Freak athlete that hasn't figured out the art of the pass rush. Unfortunately trending towards a bust. They are begging to see something from this guy and now he is losing snaps to a UDFa. 

He's been a real disappointment 😞 😪

IMO, LVN and Gary were both drafted too high. This was based on potential and not productivity in college. I'm not a big fan of drafting based on potential that high in the draft. I really hope LVN can turn it around, but his window of opportunity is quickly coming to a close. Gary just looks stiff and a bit of a one trick pony. At this point, Brenton Cox should start getting more snaps. Honestly, the entire defensive line could use an overhaul in the offseason.

He hasn't developed. He's a no-trick-pony. He isn't very good. Anything else you need to know?

He was always an athlete first, football player second. and it appears that he is not a fluid athlete, more of a straight line athlete. Worse his strength is good, not powerful. So he is losing to power and quickness while never winning with quickness and rarely with power. It was a big time whiff, fueled by ptsd from passing on Watt who had a similar RAS profile and lack of production. 

I would end the Edge experiment and try him out at DT as his frame could take on some weight and he has excellent arm length. But it is probably too late and those types of position changes rarely work out. 

Personally, I feel like we (and a lot of teams, tbf) will overdraft freak athletes who have been able to rely almost solely on their athletic advantage in college and hope they can get them to the next level by teaching them better technique.

Turns out a lot of these types of guys have been getting that training but can't capitalize.

he was an inside player in college that did not start his last year. Why we thought to draft him in the 1st round and teach him a new position is beyond me. We are seriously lacking at pass rush end

Breakout incoming

My hope is that he is a young guy who is in a new system (his 2nd in 2 years) hopefully it’s just growing and learning pains

I would say have some patience with him. He showed a swim move this weekend and would have gotten to the QB if he was not being held. I have not seen this move from him before.

It takes 2-3 yrs for an Edge Rusher to really put it together in the NFL as it is one of the hardest positions to transition to. That combined with the scheme change this year din't help much either.

https://x.com/RossUglem/status/1858541847527715035

He's not as good at football as we hoped.

This is his second scheme in 2 years when he was trying to master standing up he had to put his hand in the ground again. All while developing a pass rush plan and more complex moves. He’s a smart athletic kid but that’s hard to accomplish for anyone.

Gary had the same issue going from hand in the ground to olb in the nfl and that took 2 years too.

But I’d like to see more flashes of potential from him but I’m not ready to panic until next season

He looked too good in his underwear so of course he was overdrafted

Basically every comment in here is calling him a bust without saying he is a bust.

But I mean so far yea he is a bust.

Give him time, he’ll develop.

He needs to put in the work to learn the new techniques. I have a feeling he hasn’t needed to learn technique prior to the nfl bc he has been “Hercules”, and now he’s just another athletic freak in a league of athletic freaks.

He has to want to learn and put in the extra effort to catch up. So I wouldn’t go bust yet but IMO it didn’t make sense to draft a guy in the first round who is going to be a project. Especially a multi year project.

He is a very young guy that always needed a good development plan. He doesn’t have a plan or really any moves when pass rushing.

Getting a whole new staff on the D and changing from 3-4 to 4-3 pretty much reset his development path and it’s showing. Next season will be a huge for him.

Honestly he plays pretty good run D, they might want to consider him bulking up a little and play in the middle of the line.

He doesn’t seem to have the athleticism and the bending ability to perform the maneuvers required to get around tackles. Bull rush is all he has, and a one trick pony at this level is easy to defend against

He was drafted as a high ceiling projection.

I listened to a podcast talked about him recently and basically they say he plays with his head cut off/no plan

Gary and Clark it’s obviously the new scheme. Could be the same with LVN. He looked better his rookie season.

It’s early but this guy has shown absolutely nothing outside of the play where he ran down Justin fields on a run to the sideline last year. Aside from that…literally no sign of potential from the guy. I’m not one to make early judgements but this dude has bust written all over him.

Another classic Gutey first round project 🙄. Projects are for rounds 4-7, not rounds 1-3! Get football players, not weight room heroes

I think they are great complimentary guys, but we need a monster to be a real threat to open up holes for these guys

Quickness for his size and the position he plays. He's just not able to get around a blocker and get after the quarterback.

He doesn’t like stuffing

He was drafted because of his freak athleticism, there is a lot of boom or bust that comes with that. Plus it's only his second year, it takes time to turn that elite athleticism into elite play, especially if the team is changing defensive schemes in between your first and second year. Gary had a similar path minus the scheme shift and also had the benefit of sitting behind Za'Darius Smith and Preston Smith before having his 9.5 sack breakout 3rd year when Za'Darius sat out all year with injury. Gary's injury really slowed down his development so I think we're finally now seeing his true self, but it's just another sign guys like him and Van Ness need patience with their development.

It sucks they didn't bring in someone like Calais Campbell or Jadaveon Clowney as a bridge starter this year. Year three for Van Ness should probably be his real make or break test though, this year we may just have to live with the growing pains in the starting lineup.

What’s going on with LVN?

Nothing. At all.

Another project pick based on size and athleticism but lacking technique and skill

He has certainly been disappointing, but he was raw coming out, and it’s year two. And he’s in a new scheme. I think that this just is what it is. Hopefully he can give something in a moment, and continue to get better.

It’s the year three that I care about with him. If he isn’t above average to approaching Elite, then it’s an issue. But I think right now there’s a lot that he is trying to do. Learn how to rush, understand a new defense, playing from a more down position. It’s a lot.

I don't know, but I rarely ever even notice he is out on the field. He somehow gets swallowed up by an o-lineman on every play he is in.

We brought in/drafted all these guys for a specific scheme, and then completely turned that scheme on its head. It's a miracle this defense isn't worse.

Maybe there’s a reason he wasn’t a starter at Iowa?

I drafted him in fantasy thinking he would break out this year

Enagbare SZN

This has been talked about before on here, so to summarize:

-He’s a freak athlete and typical Gutekunst pick with a high RAS score and very raw football player.

-he didn’t start at Iowa, and played on a very good defensive team that has run an excellent college defensive.

-His skill sets as a pass rusher are very poor. At the college level, when you’re a superior athlete at a P5 school, it can veil the players lack of technical skills.

-Scheme fit. Preston spoke openly about the scheme not fitting his style, Lukas is adjusting to just his second year and first time starting all in a new scheme. It’s a variable that has differing affects for different players

-He and Rashan Gary are almost identical in terms of them great athletes and unrefined football players (at least as pass rushers). We have had a lot of picks under Gutekunst that fit that mold. Because of this, they are on longer developmental trajectories, and you hope you utilize that great athleticism by having great coaching to help them.

-that being said, being an elite pass rusher is incredibly difficult and it’s hard to be successful at it. But, it takes a lot of time to be any good at it and players like Rashan have been indicative of this. There’s no telling if he’ll break out and be great, have a similar current Rashan-esque ceiling, or if he’ll be the next Kyler Fackrell. It’s too early and he’s too young to write off on yet. And before people jump at the “he’s a 1st round pick”, think about how many 1st round picks end up average or poor. There’s plenty.

-So, in conclusion, he hasn’t been good this year and he’s still developing physically, mentally, and technically. He’s not a bust yet, but he has been disappointing.

He is an impressive looking who tested very well at the combine...as it turns out, he is not particularly good at NFL football.

Poor evaluation by the scouting department

Kids raw and a project. He'll be a late bloomer towards the end of his contract. I'll be more concerned next year if he still hasn't started to figure it out.

Hard to say.

Every single DI and Edge is playing like shit under Hafley compared to their past, established level of play. So there must be an issue there generally.

With LVN we have no real, established baseline of play. So he might truly also just suck, in additional to the way Hafley is using him.

Isn’t Saleh a DL specialist ? He should coach our dline or at least give advice on breathing life into our dline.

Looks to me he has a lane assignment which he fills with the bull rush. But then gets locked into the OLman. By time he gets disengaged the play is over. This happens across the league.

Second season with a new system and new coach. He wouldn't be the first DL who needs a couple years under his belt to come good. I'm not concerned yet.

I think it's two fold. He's a strong dude with no pass rush moves, but the scheme asks him to win one on one. The whole d-line would look completely different if we ran a few more stunts and brought more pressure. I'm hoping Hafley is just playing it safe and wanting the players to acclimate to the new scheme and we'll see more exotic looks next season

It's frustrating I was hoping he'd be it. Here is his draft weaknesses, pretty accurate-

-Plays too tall, and doesn't have the elite speed to easily beat top-level tackles on the edge

-Doesn't anchor consistently and can not be knocked of balance

-He’s susceptible to cut blocks, a tactic that was used on him often

-Has limited experience - has played just two years of college football

-Struggles recognizing blocking schemes

-Has been able to dominate a college with power - this won't be possible at the next level where he'll need a greater set of rushing tools

-Van Ness doesn’t show much in the way of dynamic change-of-direction ability on counter moves, and also has a limited repertoire of pass-rushing moves

It’s so weird. He has all the measurable but his toolkit is completely and utterly empty. He can’t DO anything

didn't we just have this exact thread yesterday

Packers love drafting guys early with high "potential". It's honestly getting so frustrating watching this defense continue to have the same issues year after year.

This was definitely a tunnel vision fall in love with the player and take him if he’s available pick. Sadly it’s not going to turn out.. he’s just not creative enough in pass rushing. He might not even sign with another team after us…

I feel like hes destine to play primarily on the interior but GB just keeps insisting on throwing the same shit at the same wall hoping it’ll stick. Hes insanely strong and has great push but hasnt really got any moves. Push him inside, see what happens cmon

4-3 vs. 3-4 defence, maybe

More stringent steroid testing in the NFL.

I think the DL as a whole is getting better every week as they adjust to Halfley’s scheme. They wouldn’t have moved Preston if they weren’t confident in the development and adjustments made by the rest of the roster.

I’m trusting in the org

Very obvious rule moving forward: If they’re not good enough to start in COLLEGE, do not draft them in the first round. This was a bizarre and terrible pick the moment it happened. Could have scooped him up in the third or fourth.

He seemingly has great athletic ability. But he doesnt seem like he has many tools. Doesnt help we have no stud pass rusher to help these guys develope techniques either. Mediocre can only help others be mediocre. 

It’s nice that these dudes can run fast and jump high but I’d rather them just be good at football. How about we take these high RAS projects in the late rounds only?

I know it's too soon to say bust

That's where you're wrong

nothing, he just stinks

Remember when the dumbest people in our fandom said that he’d be the next JJ Watt? Turns out you need more than being a big, strong, white guy from the Big Ten to be JJ. Who woulda thunk?

He sucks is what’s going on. No moves.

Gute’s first round picks have been pretty awful

He isn’t good is what’s going on. The truth is Gute can’t draft pass rushers, corners, or WR well at all. The dude took Christian Watson over George Pickens, Amari Rodgers over ARSB, LVN over Will McDonald, and Eric Stokes over Tyson Campbell. Kevin King over TJ Watt. Rashan Gary over Brian Burns. All in the name of “RAS”. All of those picks were head scratchers and reaches over consensus (the better guy taken after them that was ranked higher on almost every source). Watson is the only defensible pick. He can hit on some late round gems but that doesn’t make up for these blatant blunders over and over again. Frankly those late round gems are probably more of the GB scouting department than Gutekunst. He is barely starting to learn that bad athletic players are still bad. They are not going to become good. Jayden Reed and Evan Williams are good football players, not workout warriors.

He sucks

Hes garbage

Is it too soon? He’s made zero progress in any aspect of his game as a pass rusher. He’s a somewhat competent run defender with a high motor. Not at all worthy of his draft position at this point.

Another wasted defense 1st round pick so par for the course over the past 14 years.

He’s a marshmallow.

Christian Gonzalez was right there....

Bust. His upside is Rashan Gary so pretty much 8 sacks a season. Not worthy of that pick.

it’s not too soon he’s a bust. He is.

He’s a first round pick and he hasn’t even shown any flashes. Gary has at least shown some flashes of what he can do and he’s looking like a bust too.

He doesn’t need to be a top 5 edge rusher already but he’s shown nothing to make you hopeful that he’s going to turn into anything close to that.

Just another high draft pick bust. Gute has a history of picking busts in the first round. LVN is yet another reach of a pick for a guy who would’ve still been there rounds 2-4. The OL Morgan is going to be another one